What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1

[thereisnospoon]

I have worked for several non union companies.

In the 90's when unemployment was low, non union companies had to be competitive with union companies on wages.

This is one of the reasons the GOP crashed the economy on purpose. It has lowered wages. They have bankrupted companies and raped their pension funds ala Bain Capital. Also killing off a lot of unions.

Anyways, back to my point. Now that unemployment is high, we see corporations sitting on a lot of cash and giving their ceo's big bonus'. But the workers aren't getting raises. That's something that wouldn't happen in a union company. So if you don't get a raise for the next 20 years and your ceo's pay goes up each year, maybe you should think about organizing.

Union workers got raises and that is the only reason the rest of us got raises. Now that unions don't exist anymore, manufacturing has come back to America paying $10 hr. Maybe they will organize.

Union workers got great healthcare and THEN you got good healthcare. Your company didn't give it to you to be kind. It was a benefit that stated at a union company. Now that unions are all but dead, we see how sucky heatlhcare is at most employers.

Unions got sick days and vacation days and overtime if asked to work more than 40 hour work weeks. All these things made living in America great. Republicans are assaulting all this.

In the past 12 years while they have all but killed the unions, the companies I work have slowly chipped away at what they pay us. Must sell more and they don't pay as much as they used to. Why should they? The economy sucks. This is why Republicans love high unemployment. Lowers wages.

Unions have all but vanashed. Went from 30% of US workers to about 10 now. And it isn't coincidence that wages have not gone up in the exact same period of time.

But CEO's pay has skyrocketed. And anyone with a brain knows its a problem in a society whenever the gap between the rich and poor gets too wide.

So today we make the same as we did in the 70's, adding inflation in???

Followinging me righties?

No way a unionized company would let the CEO take home $40 million and the workers don't get a raise too.

This is why we need more unions, not less.

This is rich..The GOP crashed the economy...just to get rid of the unions..Ahh boy...
There is no "following you"..
Yours is a barrage of pro union talking points. Absent of fact and full of pro union fire and brimstone.
Who cares.
If a union rep came to me to ask if I'd like to join ( actually they don't ask, they demand)I'd walk away laughing.
Actually I'd give the union guy about 20 different reasons why unions do not represent the best interests of the nation as a whole.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ok, dont give me a raise. I dont owe you anything more than showing up then. As I have correctly told my son work as hard as you are paid, NO MORE. You work for a good employer work hard. Work for the majority just show up. Good enough. This american work your butt off. For what? How stupid are americans?

If you're not getting a raise, you obviously haven't been DOING any more than "just showing up", which is the point. Why the hell should you get a raise for doing the basic minimum required to not get fired?

As you incorrectly neglected to tell your son, you work as hard as you WANT to get paid, and if your employer doesn't appreciate and reward it, you go find someone who will. Only a monkey spends his life at a job he's only doing for the paycheck, anyway.
Smart people who end up doing well in life find jobs they can enjoy and be proud of. You've just given your son the recipe to being a meaningless, unimportant drone forever. Great parenting.

 

[koshergrl]

Work as hard as you are paid?

What crap. And this is why we are a nation of welfare recipients. What a jackass.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yup. Those who do just as much as they have to do to keep from getting fired are so often the ones who whine and bitch about the unfairness of the system. There are so many people who are better than that waiting for good jobs, I usually really hoped my marginal people would just quit. I confess to even helping that along just a wee bit at times.

Those who do their jobs competently, efficiently, and cheerfully and as well as it can be done, most especially when they give a few percentage points over 100%, are the ones who catch my eye, who get the better shifts, who get the raises, and who get the promotions.

But speaking of frustration, too often some liberals don't want to discuss the principle of personal responsibility and can't seem to wrap their minds around the concept of the best employer/employee relationship being a mutually beneficial contract. They seem to have a sense of entitlement about what their employer 'owes' them just as they have a sense of entitlement about what society 'owes' them.

 

[The T]

Yup. Those who do just as much as they have to do to keep from getting fired are so often the ones who whine and bitch about the unfairness of the system. There are so many people who are better than that waiting for good jobs, I usually really hoped my marginal people would just quit. I confess to even helping that along just a wee bit at times.

Those who do their jobs competently, efficiently, and cheerfully and as well as it can be done, most especially when they give a few percentage points over 100%, are the ones who catch my eye, who get the better shifts, who get the raises, and who get the promotions.

Indeed those whom actively participate in preserving the existence of thier jobs for the good of not only thier jobs but for commerce as a nation overall are in my book as Great Americans...I have utter distain for those that just exist.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yup. Those who do just as much as they have to do to keep from getting fired are so often the ones who whine and bitch about the unfairness of the system. There are so many people who are better than that waiting for good jobs, I usually really hoped my marginal people would just quit. I confess to even helping that along just a wee bit at times.

Those who do their jobs competently, efficiently, and cheerfully and as well as it can be done, most especially when they give a few percentage points over 100%, are the ones who catch my eye, who get the better shifts, who get the raises, and who get the promotions.

Indeed those whom actively participate in preserving the existence of thier jobs for the good of not only thier jobs but for commerce as a nation overall are in my book as Great Americans...I have utter distain for those that just exist.

Agreed though I have no problem with those who are focused on their own and/or family's benefit rather than having a sense they are promoting the welfare of all. So long as they have personal pride and an ethic to actually EARN their money and know how to make themselves more valuable so that they can get ahead, the net benefit to all of us is just the same as it would be if their motives were more noble and/or altruistivc.

One of my favorite Walter William's essays used the example of the myriad people involved in putting a single can of tuna on the grocer's shelf. None of them have us in mind and many of them may not have America's well being in mind or may even like us at all, but yet they serve us well simply by looking to their own interests. It is in fact looking to our own interests that drives the economy and allows a free people to prosper.

 

[The T]

Yup. Those who do just as much as they have to do to keep from getting fired are so often the ones who whine and bitch about the unfairness of the system. There are so many people who are better than that waiting for good jobs, I usually really hoped my marginal people would just quit. I confess to even helping that along just a wee bit at times.

Those who do their jobs competently, efficiently, and cheerfully and as well as it can be done, most especially when they give a few percentage points over 100%, are the ones who catch my eye, who get the better shifts, who get the raises, and who get the promotions.

Indeed those whom actively participate in preserving the existence of thier jobs for the good of not only thier jobs but for commerce as a nation overall are in my book as Great Americans...I have utter distain for those that just exist.

Agreed though I have no problem with those who are focused on their own and/or family's benefit rather than having a sense they are promoting the welfare of all. So long as they have personal pride and an ethic to actually EARN their money and know how to make themselves more valuable so that they can get ahead, the net benefit to all of us is just the same as it would be if their motives were more noble and/or altruistivc.

One of my favorite Walter William's essays used the example of the myriad people involved in putting a single can of tuna on the grocer's shelf. None of them have us in mind and many of them may not have America's well being in mind or may even like us at all, but yet they serve us well simply by looking to their own interests. It is in fact looking to our own interests that drives the economy and allows a free people to prosper.

Love Dr. Williams. Don't dispute this at all.

 

[initforme]

"Then to further cast a black cloud over your credibility is your celebration of the demise of your former employer."

NOT A DAY GOES BY that I dont look back with a huge grin thinking of the day that furniture maker closed its doors. High turnover rates...first sign of a terrible business. YES I CELEBRATE!! The second best day in my working life was the day I walked out on my employer by not showing up...no notice. no return calls. A GREAAAAAAAT DAY in my life.

 

[sealybobo]

I have worked for several non union companies.

In the 90's when unemployment was low, non union companies had to be competitive with union companies on wages.

This is one of the reasons the GOP crashed the economy on purpose. It has lowered wages. They have bankrupted companies and raped their pension funds ala Bain Capital. Also killing off a lot of unions.

Anyways, back to my point. Now that unemployment is high, we see corporations sitting on a lot of cash and giving their ceo's big bonus'. But the workers aren't getting raises. That's something that wouldn't happen in a union company. So if you don't get a raise for the next 20 years and your ceo's pay goes up each year, maybe you should think about organizing.

Union workers got raises and that is the only reason the rest of us got raises. Now that unions don't exist anymore, manufacturing has come back to America paying $10 hr. Maybe they will organize.

Union workers got great healthcare and THEN you got good healthcare. Your company didn't give it to you to be kind. It was a benefit that stated at a union company. Now that unions are all but dead, we see how sucky heatlhcare is at most employers.

Unions got sick days and vacation days and overtime if asked to work more than 40 hour work weeks. All these things made living in America great. Republicans are assaulting all this.

In the past 12 years while they have all but killed the unions, the companies I work have slowly chipped away at what they pay us. Must sell more and they don't pay as much as they used to. Why should they? The economy sucks. This is why Republicans love high unemployment. Lowers wages.

Unions have all but vanashed. Went from 30% of US workers to about 10 now. And it isn't coincidence that wages have not gone up in the exact same period of time.

But CEO's pay has skyrocketed. And anyone with a brain knows its a problem in a society whenever the gap between the rich and poor gets too wide.

So today we make the same as we did in the 70's, adding inflation in???

Followinging me righties?

No way a unionized company would let the CEO take home $40 million and the workers don't get a raise too.

This is why we need more unions, not less.

This is rich..The GOP crashed the economy...just to get rid of the unions..Ahh boy...
There is no "following you"..
Yours is a barrage of pro union talking points. Absent of fact and full of pro union fire and brimstone.
Who cares.
If a union rep came to me to ask if I'd like to join ( actually they don't ask, they demand)I'd walk away laughing.
Actually I'd give the union guy about 20 different reasons why unions do not represent the best interests of the nation as a whole.

Of course you think this way. The corporate media has attacked and demonized unions for 20 years. And you don't realize that you only make what you make now, and you only work the hours you work now, and get the sick days and vacation days, because of unions.

But I'm not going to try to educate or convince you.

And just like your side pushes its right wing talking points all the time, yes, I am going to be loud and proud to advocate for labor and unions.

I don't belong to a union either, but I see their value.

And I see that as union membership has shrunk, so has all of our pay. You think its a coincidence or I'm a conspiracy theorist? You have been brainwashed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

To return to the original thread topic, the most frustrating thing about arguing with liberals, hands down, is that they're so damned IGNORANT and uninformed. It's just appalling.

 

[sealybobo]

To return to the original thread topic, the most frustrating thing about arguing with liberals, hands down, is that they're so damned IGNORANT and uninformed. It's just appalling.

Here is what makes arguing with us so frustrating. We have award winning documentaries explaining in full detail exactly how your party crashed the economy.

For example, the MoveOn Academy Award-winning documentary Inside Job. The film explains how Wall Street destroyed the economy and cost millions of Americans their homes, jobs, and retirements.

Show me one documentary, Acadamy award winning or not that explains your version of who's responsible for crashing the economy.

And stop saying the media is liberal. If it were, you would already know that Wallstreet and the GOP policies from 2000-2006 are what crashed the economy.

But you don't know, because the media is corporate owned and controlled and you are brainwashed if you are middle class and still voting GOP.

 

[koshergrl]

And they're dishonest. Equally appalling. Ignorance and dishonesty often go hand in hand. Because if you're IGNORANT but making pronouncements of your superior intellect, you HAVE to be dishonest.

 

[Chris]

To return to the original thread topic, the most frustrating thing about arguing with liberals, hands down, is that they're so damned IGNORANT and uninformed. It's just appalling.

Here is what makes arguing with us so frustrating. We have award winning documentaries explaining in full detail exactly how your party crashed the economy.

For example, the MoveOn Academy Award-winning documentary Inside Job. The film explains how Wall Street destroyed the economy and cost millions of Americans their homes, jobs, and retirements.

Show me one documentary, Acadamy award winning or not that explains your version of who's responsible for crashing the economy.

And stop saying the media is liberal. If it were, you would already know that Wallstreet and the GOP policies from 2000-2006 are what crashed the economy.

But you don't know, because the media is corporate owned and controlled and you are brainwashed if you are middle class and still voting GOP.

But, but,.....Rush told me otherwise....

 

[Chris]

And they're dishonest. Equally appalling. Ignorance and dishonesty often go hand in hand. Because if you're IGNORANT but making pronouncements of your superior intellect, you HAVE to be dishonest.

Horseshit.

The Republicans lie, lie, and lie.

 

[koshergrl]

Just check out booboo's post...he wants us to provide a DOCUMENTARY as "evidence".

Documentaries are television shows. They're often (usually) PROPAGANDA. The sole purpose of most "documentaries" is to present a viewpoint in a palatable and believable way.

I've seen "documentaries" on bigfoot, alien invasions, and the projected end of the world (now past).

 

[koshergrl]

MoveOn, LOLOLOL....yeah, that's SCHOLARLY SHIT!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

To return to the original thread topic, the most frustrating thing about arguing with liberals, hands down, is that they're so damned IGNORANT and uninformed. It's just appalling.

Here is what makes arguing with us so frustrating. We have award winning documentaries explaining in full detail exactly how your party crashed the economy.

For example, the MoveOn Academy Award-winning documentary Inside Job. The film explains how Wall Street destroyed the economy and cost millions of Americans their homes, jobs, and retirements.

Show me one documentary, Acadamy award winning or not that explains your version of who's responsible for crashing the economy.

And stop saying the media is liberal. If it were, you would already know that Wallstreet and the GOP policies from 2000-2006 are what crashed the economy.

But you don't know, because the media is corporate owned and controlled and you are brainwashed if you are middle class and still voting GOP.

You saw it in a biased documentary , then it must be true.

 

[rightwinger]

Wow.....39 pages of right wing hate

All coming from a party who listens to Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks position on the economy, the environment and foreign affairs

 

[Chris]

MoveOn, LOLOLOL....yeah, that's SCHOLARLY SHIT!

Is that all you've got?

 

[Chris]

To return to the original thread topic, the most frustrating thing about arguing with liberals, hands down, is that they're so damned IGNORANT and uninformed. It's just appalling.

Here is what makes arguing with us so frustrating. We have award winning documentaries explaining in full detail exactly how your party crashed the economy.

For example, the MoveOn Academy Award-winning documentary Inside Job. The film explains how Wall Street destroyed the economy and cost millions of Americans their homes, jobs, and retirements.

Show me one documentary, Acadamy award winning or not that explains your version of who's responsible for crashing the economy.

And stop saying the media is liberal. If it were, you would already know that Wallstreet and the GOP policies from 2000-2006 are what crashed the economy.

But you don't know, because the media is corporate owned and controlled and you are brainwashed if you are middle class and still voting GOP.

You saw it in a biased documentary , then it must be true.

Actually it is.