What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1

[koshergrl]

This is what conservatives do. They attack the source but not the information contained. Just like you demonize Michael Moore but you never want to discuss the facts of the documentaries. Or you find one flaw and you dismiss the entire story.

Do you expect the corporate media or Fox News to tell you these truths? This is how they have you brainwashed. If Fox News aint reporting it, then it must not be true. If Drudge or Rush deny it, it must be a lie.

These are award winning documentaries. If you have found flaws with the facts and want to debate the facts, bring it. But instead you will just deny anything you see from MoveOn.

Brainwashed.

I love watching those PBS specials that explain exactly what happened leading up to events in history like Katrina or the Iraq war or 9-11 or the 2000 or 2004 elections.

They never accuse the GOP of breaking any laws or lying. For example, they operate under the premise that Bush was innocently given bad intelligence on Iraq.

These documentaries aren't liberal enough, even though righties would immediately label them as such. If they were they would go deeper into things like how/why Bush lied to us when he tied Saddam to 9-11, or the anthrax scare. What intelligence did they have? These documentaries don't call out the BUsh regime for a lot of things that just don't add up.

These documentaries never assume the president was sinister or lied us into war. So that leaves dumb. If Bush wasn't a criminal, he was a buffoon, and I don't think he's that dumb.

Fascist loon:

"

PBS Ombudsman Michael Getler has to be getting uncomfortable for calling out unbalanced liberal programs on the taxpayer-funded network. After he agreed with critics last week that a pro-Kerry editorial was wildly out of place on the show "History Detectives," now he has noticed the incredibly one-sided Bill Moyers Journal hour on impeaching Bush and Cheney and mildly noted it could have used a smidgen of balance. Despite Nancy Pelosi’s promise to avoid impeachment hearings, he wrote, "I would argue that it is still a newsworthy topic. So, as a viewer, I'm grateful that it is being addressed....On the other hand, there was almost a complete absence of balance, as I watched it, in the way this program presented the case for impeachment proceedings against President Bush and Vice President Cheney."


Read more: PBS Ombudsman Notices Near-Total 'Absence of Balance' in Moyers Impeachment Hour | NewsBusters.org "

​

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Here is what makes arguing with us so frustrating. We have award winning documentaries explaining in full detail exactly how your party crashed the economy.

For example, the MoveOn Academy Award-winning documentary Inside Job. The film explains how Wall Street destroyed the economy and cost millions of Americans their homes, jobs, and retirements.

Show me one documentary, Acadamy award winning or not that explains your version of who's responsible for crashing the economy.

And stop saying the media is liberal. If it were, you would already know that Wallstreet and the GOP policies from 2000-2006 are what crashed the economy.

But you don't know, because the media is corporate owned and controlled and you are brainwashed if you are middle class and still voting GOP.

You saw it in a biased documentary , then it must be true.

If Wallsteet didn't crash the economy, please explain to us all what did. Or show us a right wing documentary explaining what happened. Doesn't even have to be award winning. Chances are you got nothing.

Does bias mean true? Because we suggest your version of what happened is both bias and false/wrong/untrue.

Is the prosecutor bias in a murder case? Doesn't change the fact that the person either did or didn't commit the murder. MoveOn's documentary is right on the money. Rather than face that, you will poo poo the source as bias. Same old GOP playbook.

This is what makes arguing with liberals suck. We demand facts and proof and for you to stay on the issue. Don't just change the subject to the fact you don't respect move on. If you really had proof their documentary was wrong, you would show it to us.

And stop calling the media liberal. If they were liberal, they'd be telling you the same thing Moveon.org is telling you. Proof you are being brainwashed by a corporate controlled media that is in bed with the rich and GOP. Even MSNBC can only go so far before they fire the host. Want two examples? Phil Donahue was against the Iraq war, FIRED and Liebermann was ousted too. Liberal my ass.

Are you seriously suggesting that MoveOn isn't biased?

The mainstream media IS liberal. Especially MSNBC.

 

[sealybobo]

You saw it in a biased documentary , then it must be true.

Actually it is.

No it's not.


So who is to blame? There’s plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn’t fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn’t do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility … with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here’s a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

■The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
■Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
■Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
■Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
■The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
■Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
■Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
■Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
■The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
■An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
■Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

FactCheck.org : Who Caused the Economic Crisis?

Homebuyers were victims. Who knew Bush was going to send their jobs overseas. And who deregulated the mortgage industry.

Yes, Clinton went along with Newt on a lot of shit us liberals aren't happy about. But remember, he went along with GOP's regluations. It wasn't democrats who pushed those regulations through.

And Bush deregulated even more after Clinton. Look back at what Clinton signed and it wasn't as bad as it was after Bush and Tom Delay got through with it between 2000-2006.

If you look back at everything that happened when the GOP controlled all three branches of government between 2000-2006, everything that is going wrong today is because of policies they put in place back then. We are experiencing the results of those GOP policies. So are rich people. They have never been richer. Mission accomplished!

And what you will never believe is that the GOP did all this on purpose. They got rich, they bankrupted the goverment, got to kill off a lot of social programs they don't like.

THey are in the process of destroying the US Postal service. It wasn't broken until the lame duck session in 2008 when they passed a bill that the post office had to fund its Pension fund for the next 75 years. KNOWING THIS WILL BREAK THE POST OFFICE. And guess who will loot the pension fund that has billions in it? The GOP.

The GOP is responsible for all our woes today. Bush, Tom Delay and today we can blame Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan and John Boehner and their obstructionist party. Hard to fix what they broke when they filabust everything we try.

 

[koshergrl]

yes, that's what he's saying.

And at the same time, he's claiming that all documentaries are TRUTH.

As I said, ignorance coupled with dishonest. In one convenient package known as "extremist leftard".

 

[Uncensored2008]

But, but,.....Rush told me otherwise....

Maybe you should quit listening to Rush, or pull your head out of your ass, or something.....

 

[Uncensored2008]

Just check out booboo's post...he wants us to provide a DOCUMENTARY as "evidence".

Documentaries are television shows. They're often (usually) PROPAGANDA. The sole purpose of most "documentaries" is to present a viewpoint in a palatable and believable way.

I've seen "documentaries" on bigfoot, alien invasions, and the projected end of the world (now past).

Yeah, but MoveOn gave it an AWARD, which makes it really true.....

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wow.....39 pages of right wing hate

All coming from a party who listens to Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks position on the economy, the environment and foreign affairs

Yeah, we can't ALL get our positions from Jon Stewart on Comedy Central, the way you do.....

 

[Texanmike]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

It isn't liberals, it is liberals and conservatives. It isn't even people, it is sheep. The problem isn't with the philosphy, the problem is the origin of the philosophy and the burden of proof in a discussion.

There are liberals and conservatives, the majority of them, with whom one cannot have a discussion. Once someone has adopted either moniker they begin to judge things based on affiliation instead of evaluating issues as they come up.

Then you get in this vicious circle of deciding whether man makes something true or something true makes a man. You lose the ability to judge statements made by certain people. Examples of this would be many liberals and Obama. Oh wait, don't think you're left out conservatives... Conservatives and Ronald Reagan (for whom I have the highest regard, but he wasn't perfect) or Rush Limbaugh... Both are the patron saint of conservatism.

What is frustrating arguing with people is that they are predisposed to looking for approval, not answers.

Mike

 

[sealybobo]

You saw it in a biased documentary , then it must be true.

If Wallsteet didn't crash the economy, please explain to us all what did. Or show us a right wing documentary explaining what happened. Doesn't even have to be award winning. Chances are you got nothing.

Does bias mean true? Because we suggest your version of what happened is both bias and false/wrong/untrue.

Is the prosecutor bias in a murder case? Doesn't change the fact that the person either did or didn't commit the murder. MoveOn's documentary is right on the money. Rather than face that, you will poo poo the source as bias. Same old GOP playbook.

This is what makes arguing with liberals suck. We demand facts and proof and for you to stay on the issue. Don't just change the subject to the fact you don't respect move on. If you really had proof their documentary was wrong, you would show it to us.

And stop calling the media liberal. If they were liberal, they'd be telling you the same thing Moveon.org is telling you. Proof you are being brainwashed by a corporate controlled media that is in bed with the rich and GOP. Even MSNBC can only go so far before they fire the host. Want two examples? Phil Donahue was against the Iraq war, FIRED and Liebermann was ousted too. Liberal my ass.

Are you seriously suggesting that MoveOn isn't biased?

The mainstream media IS liberal. Especially MSNBC.

MSNBC is the most liberal out of all of them but even it is not liberal enough. If it were, you would be hearing everything we are saying on it. But they only go so far because the station manager screens what they report. Better than nothing, but certainly not as left as Fox is right.

The media used to be the governments watchdog. Now the corporate media is in bed with the politicians. One day you might realize this. Until then, you keep believing their lies and false propoganda.

Us liberals are upset with the mainstream Democrats because we feel they are no longer liberal. They are corporate democrats. They have moved too far to the right. MSNBC represent them. For example, MSNBC didn't call out Bush for lying us into Iraq. Phil Donahue tried and MSNBC fired him. Olbermann went too far too and he got fired. Now they have the very safe Ed Schultz. He's good, but not as left as the we would like him to be. Fox couldn't be any more right wing.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Homebuyers were victims.

Yeah, a guy making $12 was victimized into buying a $930,000 home. BOOOOSSHHHH forced him to.

Jon Stewart said so, and a documentary from MoveOn confirmed it...

ROFL

Fucking leftist, stupid as dog turds....

Who knew Bush was going to send their jobs overseas. And who deregulated the mortgage industry.

Yes, Clinton went along with Newt on a lot of shit us liberals aren't happy about. But remember, he went along with GOP's regluations. It wasn't democrats who pushed those regulations through.

And Bush deregulated even more after Clinton. Look back at what Clinton signed and it wasn't as bad as it was after Bush and Tom Delay got through with it between 2000-2006.

If you look back at everything that happened when the GOP controlled all three branches of government between 2000-2006, everything that is going wrong today is because of policies they put in place back then. We are experiencing the results of those GOP policies. So are rich people. They have never been richer. Mission accomplished!

And what you will never believe is that the GOP did all this on purpose. They got rich, they bankrupted the goverment, got to kill off a lot of social programs they don't like.

THey are in the process of destroying the US Postal service. It wasn't broken until the lame duck session in 2008 when they passed a bill that the post office had to fund its Pension fund for the next 75 years. KNOWING THIS WILL BREAK THE POST OFFICE. And guess who will loot the pension fund that has billions in it? The GOP.

The GOP is responsible for all our woes today. Bush, Tom Delay and today we can blame Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan and John Boehner and their obstructionist party. Hard to fix what they broke when they filabust everything we try.

 

[Oddball]

Homebuyers were victims. Who knew Bush was going to send their jobs overseas. And who deregulated the mortgage industry.

Yes, Clinton went along with Newt on a lot of shit us liberals aren't happy about. But remember, he went along with GOP's regluations. It wasn't democrats who pushed those regulations through.

And Bush deregulated even more after Clinton. Look back at what Clinton signed and it wasn't as bad as it was after Bush and Tom Delay got through with it between 2000-2006.

If you look back at everything that happened when the GOP controlled all three branches of government between 2000-2006, everything that is going wrong today is because of policies they put in place back then. We are experiencing the results of those GOP policies. So are rich people. They have never been richer. Mission accomplished!

And what you will never believe is that the GOP did all this on purpose. They got rich, they bankrupted the goverment, got to kill off a lot of social programs they don't like.

THey are in the process of destroying the US Postal service. It wasn't broken until the lame duck session in 2008 when they passed a bill that the post office had to fund its Pension fund for the next 75 years. KNOWING THIS WILL BREAK THE POST OFFICE. And guess who will loot the pension fund that has billions in it? The GOP.

The GOP is responsible for all our woes today. Bush, Tom Delay and today we can blame Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan and John Boehner and their obstructionist party. Hard to fix what they broke when they filabust everything we try.

Cool story, bro!

 

[sealybobo]

Wow.....39 pages of right wing hate

All coming from a party who listens to Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks position on the economy, the environment and foreign affairs

Yeah, we can't ALL get our positions from Jon Stewart on Comedy Central, the way you do.....

They did a study of people who watch all the news like CBS and CNN and Fox viewer and Daily Show viewers and Daily Show viewers overwhelmingly had their facts straight and Fox viewers were the most uninformed of all the respondents.

 

[koshergrl]

Citation and link, bozo.

 

[koshergrl]

They did a study that concluded that leftwing extremists had unnatural attachments to their mothers and a tendency to pedophilia, too...

 

[rightwinger]

Wow.....39 pages of right wing hate

All coming from a party who listens to Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks position on the economy, the environment and foreign affairs

Yeah, we can't ALL get our positions from Jon Stewart on Comedy Central, the way you do.....

I'll take Jon Stewarts spin on events over Rush any day

 

[koshergrl]

Of course you would.

"In January 1999, Stewart took over as anchorman for Comedy Central's The Daily Show, a popular late-night show that dubs itself "the most trusted name in fake news." "
http://www.biography.com/people/jon-stewart-16242282

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Actually it is.

No it's not.


So who is to blame? There’s plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn’t fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn’t do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility … with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here’s a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

■The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
■Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
■Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
■Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
■The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
■Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
■Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
■Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
■The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
■An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
■Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

FactCheck.org : Who Caused the Economic Crisis?

Homebuyers were victims. Who knew Bush was going to send their jobs overseas. And who deregulated the mortgage industry.

Yes, Clinton went along with Newt on a lot of shit us liberals aren't happy about. But remember, he went along with GOP's regluations. It wasn't democrats who pushed those regulations through.

And Bush deregulated even more after Clinton. Look back at what Clinton signed and it wasn't as bad as it was after Bush and Tom Delay got through with it between 2000-2006.

If you look back at everything that happened when the GOP controlled all three branches of government between 2000-2006, everything that is going wrong today is because of policies they put in place back then. We are experiencing the results of those GOP policies. So are rich people. They have never been richer. Mission accomplished!

And what you will never believe is that the GOP did all this on purpose. They got rich, they bankrupted the goverment, got to kill off a lot of social programs they don't like.

THey are in the process of destroying the US Postal service. It wasn't broken until the lame duck session in 2008 when they passed a bill that the post office had to fund its Pension fund for the next 75 years. KNOWING THIS WILL BREAK THE POST OFFICE. And guess who will loot the pension fund that has billions in it? The GOP.

The GOP is responsible for all our woes today. Bush, Tom Delay and today we can blame Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan and John Boehner and their obstructionist party. Hard to fix what they broke when they filabust everything we try.

Homebuyers were not what I would call a victim. If you went out and signed on a house that you cannot afford, are you a victim?

I can't believe you're arguing with factcheck.org.

What your dumbass don't realize is that the Democrats were in control of the house and senate during the Bush years. And who holds the purse strings?? Damn you liberals are so fucking blindly partisan you can't see the truth staring you in the face.

And another thing you stupid fuck the House of Representatives rules do not permit filibusters.

 

[sealybobo]

Homebuyers were victims.

Yeah, a guy making $12 was victimized into buying a $930,000 home. BOOOOSSHHHH forced him to.

Jon Stewart said so, and a documentary from MoveOn confirmed it...

ROFL

Fucking leftist, stupid as dog turds....




Clinton may have loosened the rules so that poor people could get mortgages, but that was before Bush sent 7 million jobs overseas. People had jobs and were paying their mortgages until the GOP crashed the economy.

And it wasn't that that forced the mortgage companies to give out those bad loans. GOP deregulations allow them and also allowed predatory lending.

Those mortgage giants knew those homes would be forclosed and still sold those homes.

Republicans want to forget about those GOP deregulations. Instead they point back to Clinton and Fanny/Freddy mack.

Forget about what happened between 2000-2006. All the bad moves the GOP made. It all worked for the top 1% but not the rest of us.

 

[koshergrl]

Wow that is a really interesting post, boob...you messed it up so you look like you're arguing yourself.

 

[Foxfyre]

You can see evidence of radical liberal brainwashing all through this thread, yes? I don't mean the partisan positions taken. Both the left and right can be equally passionate there. But when you see the leftwing bloggers dishonest talking points repeated again and again with the poster obviously believing it is true, you can't come to any other conclusion other than a form of brainwashing.

Also increasing the frustration is the observationthat radical Liberals also don't have much of a sense of humor when it comes to social and fiscal policy. When I have posted the following--it has been circulating for some time--conservatives usually laugh. Liberals rarely do. They usually don't see how it is funny at all:

The IRS sent my Tax Return back! AGAIN!!!
I guess it was because of my response to the question:
"List all dependents." I replied:

“12 million illegal immigrants ;
3 million crack heads ;
42 million unemployable people on food stamps ,
2 million people in over 243 prisons ;
Half of Mexico ; and
535 fools in the U.S. House and Senate .”


Evidently, this was NOT an acceptable answer.


WHO DID I MISS?