What "rights" does nature give us?

[hazlnut]

No, it's not semantics.

The concept of natural rights presumes that we all have our rights in precedence to lawful de jure government....And in fact it is the protection of those rights that is its primary (arguably only) role in our lives.

Your idiotic despotic definition of rights is that gubmint exists in precedence to and is greater than the people who formed it, and it is master of the people, not their servant.

That the feds stuck their noses into the business of the people and outlawed alcohol is representative of what happens when they get out of their box...They create black markets, chaos and chaos.

You're in way over your head here, sport.

You can't even accurately paraphrase what I said.

That or you're trying to get out of this thread as fast as you can.

We created the government, the concept of government, the mode of government to protect us, AND WE DEFINED THE RIGHTS WE WANTED OUR GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT.

There is no chicken and egg here.

There are cave men fighting over a watering hole and there is the modern city hall. Try to keep up.

 

[Uncensored2008]

They are.

They are not tangible. And they are not universal or innate with the species.

Well, not when they interfere with your political agenda, anyway.

They aren't even part of what we call instinct.

Even for you, that's an insanely stupid claim.

You of the anti-liberty left seek to establish an authoritarian system. The war on civil rights waged by Obama is in full bloom. The line of illogic you pursue is simply to support the crushing of individual liberty and establishment of your shameful party as iron fisted rulers. Your new bit of chicanery is to claim rights don't exist, therefore revocation of them is not a matter of concern. After all, these are just privileges granted by our rulers, not innate rights existent absent kings and lords to grant them.

Some of your fellows have read Locke, Jefferson, Payne, Madison, Mason, et al - not you, of course; and they know full well the spurious nature of your claims. You don't, of course; Common Dreams tells you what you think, and you think it.


Yes, natural rights exist and are undeniable to thinking people, though often denied by thugs with an agenda.



Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else; hence the exercise of the natural rights of each man has no limits except those which assure to the other members of the society the enjoyment of the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law. - The Marquis de Lafayette

 

[Dreamy]

Semantics.

Ask someone in a more repressive country if they see our 'free speech' and 'free press' as merely a privilege.

The right to consume alcohol was taken and away and given back via the same government process. There was a massive moral movement against it, then a movement to make it legal again.

King George wasn't elected. Dope.

King George didn't have to deal with checks and balances like judicial review. Idiot.

Mod? Seriously?

Which came first, government or man/woman?

They are birthrights bestowed by God for those who believe and by birth for those who do not. They are universal to all human beings and government law exists to protect those birthrights.

"God" is a man-made concept. A finite mind trying to define the infinite.

Our laws, codes, traditions, and 'RIGHTS' may be inspired by a universal creative force. But they are written down by men.

The federal government that we the people created was and should be subject to us always and never the other way around.

Agreed.

And the rights we give ourselves should benefit the majority and protect the minority.

Mititary stype weapons do neither.

We have no kings in the US and ideally our government was formed to do the will of the people, NOT the will of the king as in other lands.

You writer like a 4th grader.

"God" is a man-made concept. A finite mind trying to define the infinite.

Is freedom your birthright?

inspired by a universal creative force.

What kind of double speak gobbledygook is the above?

You writer like a 4th grader.

^^ Says he

 

[Koios]

Which came first, government or man/woman?

They are birthrights bestowed by God for those who believe and by birth for those who do not. They are universal to all human beings and government law exists to protect those birthrights.

"God" is a man-made concept. A finite mind trying to define the infinite.

Our laws, codes, traditions, and 'RIGHTS' may be inspired by a universal creative force. But they are written down by men.

Agreed.

And the rights we give ourselves should benefit the majority and protect the minority.

Mititary stype weapons do neither.

You writer like a 4th grader.

Is freedom your birthright?

inspired by a universal creative force.

What kind of double speak gobbledygook is the above?

You writer like a 4th grader.

^^ Says he

Depends on which country you're born in.

 

[Dreamy]

"God" is a man-made concept. A finite mind trying to define the infinite.

Our laws, codes, traditions, and 'RIGHTS' may be inspired by a universal creative force. But they are written down by men.

Agreed.

And the rights we give ourselves should benefit the majority and protect the minority.

Mititary stype weapons do neither.

You writer like a 4th grader.

Is freedom your birthright?



What kind of double speak gobbledygook is the above?

You writer like a 4th grader.

^^ Says he

Depends on which country you're born in.

So you believe that if you are born into slavery then your natural birthright to be free does not exist?

 

[Uncensored2008]

"Natural Rights" rewards innovative strategies, cooperative efforts for survival, cross-species symbiosis, parisitism, prolific breeding, generalists, specialists...in fact - if you hate liberals or love liberals - there's something there for everyone. You think "conservatives" would do much better?

Liberals "believe in" natural rights - they exist, they are a fact of life. The question is - does it end there? Is it the best we can be?

I don't think so.

You seem to be falling out of lockstep with your fellow leftists. The right draws philosophical inspiration and guidance from Payne and Jefferson, the left turns to Pol Pot for the foundational philosophy of rights.

The Obama left denies the existence of natural rights as a precursor to infringing said rights.

 

[hazlnut]

Is freedom your birthright?

If I am born in the U.S.

But that wasn't always the case for blacks born in the U.S.

inspired by a universal creative force.

What kind of double speak gobbledygook is the above?

It's a mature concept. Perhaps over your head.

You writer like a 4th grader.

^^ Says he

Did my post hurt your head?

 

[Koios]

Is freedom your birthright?



What kind of double speak gobbledygook is the above?

^^ Says he

Depends on which country you're born in.

So you believe that if you are born into slavery then your natural birthright to be free does not exist?

No. I think freedom is a construct of polities, and that it varies by country.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Then they are not rights...They are privileges and we are all the chattel property of Big Daddy Big Gubmint.

Thank you, King George.

The left is authoritarian and yearns for dictatorship. The concept of actual, or natural, rights is an impediment to imposing the will of the left through force of arms on an unwilling populace.

 

[bripat9643]

So you believe that if you are born into slavery then your natural birthright to be free does not exist?

Liberals claim rights are purely man made creations, but they still get upset when voters turn down ballot issues to allow homosexuals to marry. What are they whining about? According to them, if society says homosexuals don't have the right to marry, then they don't have the right to marry.

 

[Dreamy]

"Natural Rights" rewards innovative strategies, cooperative efforts for survival, cross-species symbiosis, parisitism, prolific breeding, generalists, specialists...in fact - if you hate liberals or love liberals - there's something there for everyone. You think "conservatives" would do much better?

Liberals "believe in" natural rights - they exist, they are a fact of life. The question is - does it end there? Is it the best we can be?

I don't think so.

You seem to be falling out of lockstep with your fellow leftists. The right draws philosophical inspiration and guidance from Payne and Jefferson, the left turns to Pol Pot for the foundational philosophy of rights.

The Obama left denies the existence of natural rights as a precursor to infringing said rights.

The Obama left denies the existence of natural rights as a precursor to infringing said rights.

Too many on the left apparently believe the answer is government. The answer should rarely be government. Government in its worst form seeks to exercise power over the lives of others. A civil government is formed by the people to restrain those people who would use power to restrain the other people. But that government should not become the oppression itself that we seek to prevent and it has in many ways.

 

[Koios]

Then they are not rights...They are privileges and we are all the chattel property of Big Daddy Big Gubmint.

Thank you, King George.

The left is authoritarian and yearns for dictatorship. The concept of actual, or natural, rights is an impediment to imposing the will of the left through force of arms on an unwilling populace.

That's a smidge tedious, and has been since that Republican cocksucker Joe McCarthy died in a psych-ward.

Bear in mind, he (Tailgunner Joe) called General George Marshall (then Secretary Marshall) and others in the Truman Admin, "pink." And to the discredit of Eisenhower in his bid for the GOP nom, he even tacitly agreed with that sucker of satan's cock, Joe McCarthy, which is a travesty and Ike's greatest lapse of integrity, since his good friend and highly-valued general, George Marshall, was the worst fucking thing that ever happened to commies. The Marshall Plan saved much of Europe, especially countries along the Med, from going commie in the post WWII devistation. Plus he along with others in the Truman Admin created the Truman Doctrine, which guided us to a successful outcome: a B Actor urging Mikhail Gorbachev to, "Tear down this wall!"

(read: mygod Righties are fucking retarded assholes)

 

[Uncensored2008]

Depends on which country you're born in.

Do humans born in North Korea desire dictatorship the way Americans desire freedom?

Obviously your don't believe the bullshit you post, you merely are convinced that revocation of civil rights will empower you to impose your will on others, using the implied or actual violence of the state.

What if you are wrong? What if your rulers decide that a entitled and pampered, petty bourgeoisie child like you is better suited to the mines that to a plush office lording over others?

Liberty allows each to rise or fall on our own. Yes, you have no actual talent and live off the wealth of your parents, but the world you seek may not believe you are owed the position, title and comforts you have simply because you are an overgrown child.

 

[Koios]

Depends on which country you're born in.

Do humans born in North Korea desire dictatorship the way Americans desire freedom?

Obviously your don't believe the bullshit you post, you merely are convinced that revocation of civil rights will empower you to impose your will on others, using the implied or actual violence of the state.

What if you are wrong? What if your rulers decide that a entitled and pampered, petty bourgeoisie child like you is better suited to the mines that to a plush office lording over others?

Liberty allows each to rise or fall on our own. Yes, you have no actual talent and live off the wealth of your parents, but the world you seek may not believe you are owed the position, title and comforts you have simply because you are an overgrown child.

I have no fucking idea. Some do, some don't. But, and knock me over with a fucking feather, you missed the point, entirely, which is: folks born here have more freedom than those born in North Korea.

 

[Oddball]

Then they are not rights...They are privileges and we are all the chattel property of Big Daddy Big Gubmint.

Thank you, King George.

The left is authoritarian and yearns for dictatorship. The concept of actual, or natural, rights is an impediment to imposing the will of the left through force of arms on an unwilling populace.

That's a smidge tedious, and has been since that Republican cocksucker Joe McCarthy died in a psych-ward.

Bear in mind, he (Tailgunner Joe) called General George Marshall (then Secretary Marshall) and others in the Truman Admin, "pink." And to the discredit of Eisenhower in his bid for the GOP nom, he even tacitly agreed with that sucker of satan's cock, Joe McCarthy, which is a travesty and Ike's greatest lapse of integrity, since his good friend and highly-valued general, George Marshall, was the worst fucking thing that ever happened to commies. The Marshall Plan saved much of Europe, especially countries along the Med, from going commie in the post WWII devistation. Plus he along with others in the Truman Admin created the Truman Doctrine, which guided us to a successful outcome: a B Actor urging Mikhail Gorbachev to, "Tear down this wall!"

(read: mygod Righties are fucking retarded assholes)

Completely irrelevant to the topic.

Next.

 

[Koios]

The left is authoritarian and yearns for dictatorship. The concept of actual, or natural, rights is an impediment to imposing the will of the left through force of arms on an unwilling populace.

That's a smidge tedious, and has been since that Republican cocksucker Joe McCarthy died in a psych-ward.

Bear in mind, he (Tailgunner Joe) called General George Marshall (then Secretary Marshall) and others in the Truman Admin, "pink." And to the discredit of Eisenhower in his bid for the GOP nom, he even tacitly agreed with that sucker of satan's cock, Joe McCarthy, which is a travesty and Ike's greatest lapse of integrity, since his good friend and highly-valued general, George Marshall, was the worst fucking thing that ever happened to commies. The Marshall Plan saved much of Europe, especially countries along the Med, from going commie in the post WWII devistation. Plus he along with others in the Truman Admin created the Truman Doctrine, which guided us to a successful outcome: a B Actor urging Mikhail Gorbachev to, "Tear down this wall!"

(read: mygod Righties are fucking retarded assholes)

Completely irrelevant to the topic.

Next.

Yes; as next Righty Retard to chime in. Good to have you Oddie.

 

[Oddball]

No, it's not semantics.

The concept of natural rights presumes that we all have our rights in precedence to lawful de jure government....And in fact it is the protection of those rights that is its primary (arguably only) role in our lives.

Your idiotic despotic definition of rights is that gubmint exists in precedence to and is greater than the people who formed it, and it is master of the people, not their servant.

That the feds stuck their noses into the business of the people and outlawed alcohol is representative of what happens when they get out of their box...They create black markets, chaos and chaos.

You're in way over your head here, sport.

You can't even accurately paraphrase what I said.

That or you're trying to get out of this thread as fast as you can.

We created the government, the concept of government, the mode of government to protect us, AND WE DEFINED THE RIGHTS WE WANTED OUR GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT.

There is no chicken and egg here.

There are cave men fighting over a watering hole and there is the modern city hall. Try to keep up.

And we didn't create them as our babysitter and/or lord and master, which is what your top-down notion of "rights" (i.e. privileges extended to we the hoi polloy from our masters on high) presumes.

And you've obviously never been in Colorado to witness a water rights fight.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Too many on the left apparently believe the answer is government. The answer should rarely be government. Government in its worst form seeks to exercise power over the lives of others. A civil government is formed by the people to restrain those people who would use power to restrain the other people. But that government should not become the oppression itself that we sough to prevent and it has in many ways.

The left is dropping their mask. The goal of the American left is power, unrestrained. They seek to end constitutional government and establish a system that benefits them at the expense of their fellow man. At one time this was subtle, but now it is blatant.

But it's a balancing act. The nation teeters on the brink of civil war, and we all know it. The only reason that we are not currently shooting each other is that we enjoy too many creature comforts. A well fed populace with 60 inch TV's will endure a great deal of oppression. There is a tipping point though, and the key is to strip the nation of rights at a pace that does not incite open revolt.

I was born into a nation that was remarkably free. Now I live in one where I will be stopped routinely by jackbooted thugs in military garb with machine guns, who will demand to see my papers and search my bags. Call them Los Angeles Sheriffs or the Gestapo, the result is the same. But how did this happen? Even with 9/11, it wasn't overnight. The transformation of the nation to a police state has been gradual. And of course it's all to protect us from terrorists - like the NRA, Heritage Foundation, and the GOP..

Yes, there are natural rights, but there are also evil people with a lust for power who seek to strip us of rights. Do we have the will, the courage and the strength to fight and retain what our forefathers died to secure for us?

Time will tell.

 

[Oddball]

That's a smidge tedious, and has been since that Republican cocksucker Joe McCarthy died in a psych-ward.

Bear in mind, he (Tailgunner Joe) called General George Marshall (then Secretary Marshall) and others in the Truman Admin, "pink." And to the discredit of Eisenhower in his bid for the GOP nom, he even tacitly agreed with that sucker of satan's cock, Joe McCarthy, which is a travesty and Ike's greatest lapse of integrity, since his good friend and highly-valued general, George Marshall, was the worst fucking thing that ever happened to commies. The Marshall Plan saved much of Europe, especially countries along the Med, from going commie in the post WWII devistation. Plus he along with others in the Truman Admin created the Truman Doctrine, which guided us to a successful outcome: a B Actor urging Mikhail Gorbachev to, "Tear down this wall!"

(read: mygod Righties are fucking retarded assholes)

Completely irrelevant to the topic.

Next.

Yes; as next Righty Retard to chime in. Good to have you Oddie.

Still nothing germane to the topic.

Not even a good troll either.

Dismissed.

 

[Dreamy]

Depends on which country you're born in.

So you believe that if you are born into slavery then your natural birthright to be free does not exist?

No. I think freedom is a construct of polities, and that it varies by country.

That is honestly a pathetically warped way of thinking with all due respect. So its all about birth luck not a natural birthright in your opinion? People are not entitled to be free simply by being born in your opinion?

Do you realize that your line of thinking about the origination of our freedoms actually replaces God or a Creator or a higher being with government?

You must dismiss this then:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. – That to secure these rights Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, – That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it…”



If you will answer the following:



The powers of the consent come from...?

​