What should abortion laws be?

[☭proletarian☭]

the 'person' is the sentient mind

 

[Yukon]

Do you know what the real definition of a PIZZA PIE is?

An ABORTION on toast.

 

[Bern80]

LMAO!! Just because a machine forces air into the lungs does not make it any different from a fetus, whose oxygen is also FORCED into it's body by means of the oxygenated blood pumped through the woman's veins first.

A fetus cannot fucking continue to gestate without these functional biological mechanisms in place. As much as you want to try to twist all of this around, it is impossible for you to say that a fetus or embryo can survive independent the mother. Stop lying to yourself, please.

So we're back to something's level of dependence is what determines whether abortion is justified?

 

[Father Time]

Do you know what the real definition of a PIZZA PIE is?

An ABORTION on toast.

That would be egg on toast.

 

[Yukon]

ABORTION is LEGAL and will stay LEGAL. Eat your hearts out CONSERVATIVES and invest in your local ABORTION clinic. At least make some money that you can donate to your local right-wing, religious group.

PRAISE JESUS !

 

[AllieBaba]

ABORTION is LEGAL and will stay LEGAL. Eat your hearts out CONSERVATIVES and invest in your local ABORTION clinic. At least make some money that you can donate to your local right-wing, religious group.

PRAISE JESUS !

Abortion became legal illegally. The people were against it, didn't vote on it, and the Supreme Court forced it on us.

What was once made (illegally) legal can just as easily be made illegal again.

 

[Yukon]

You stupid pathetic ignorant excuse of humanity. Your Constipation is your LAW MAKER............ABORTION is legal.

 

[Bern80]

You stupid pathetic ignorant excuse of humanity. Your Constipation is your LAW MAKER............ABORTION is legal.

That you have the balls to keep that particular quote as your sig, I think says all we need to know about your credibility. What the SC said about abortion is that people have a right to privacy under the constitution.....up until viability of the fetus. I can only speculate that the reason for that was even they realized the possibility that at a certain point abortion could potentially be considered as infringing on the rights of another.

 

[Yukon]

Bern,

It doesnt matter......ABORTION is legal.

 

[Bern80]

Bern,

It doesnt matter......ABORTION is legal.

I'm aware of that. Are you so obtuse as to believe that because something is law it's case closed and shouldn't be debated or reconsidered? Should we not have even considered abolishing slavery or given women the status that allows them to choose abortion? In most every case I'm all for it being legal. You can't deny that there is a compelling case that in some instances it could be considered illegal. Now other than your pension for the stupidly obvious and being a troll, do you have anything else to add?

 

[JD_2B]

ABORTION is LEGAL and will stay LEGAL. Eat your hearts out CONSERVATIVES and invest in your local ABORTION clinic. At least make some money that you can donate to your local right-wing, religious group.

PRAISE JESUS !

Abortion became legal illegally. The people were against it, didn't vote on it, and the Supreme Court forced it on us.

What was once made (illegally) legal can just as easily be made illegal again.

How do you figure? Supreme Court decisions are primary sources of law, legally speaking, of course. ;-)

Not everything is up to a majority fucking vote. Not slavery, not integration, not women's votes, and also not abortion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I thought we were discussing the value of tissue versus the mind and when the organism should be protected?

No. You might have been. I'm talking dead vs. alive. I have the distinct impression that you have an emotional investment in the idea of sentience, such that you're a bit obsessed with it and unable to separate it from the simple issue of life. For myself, I don't equate the two. Many things on Earth are alive but do not exhibit the level of sentience adult humans normally have.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The person is the sentient mind, and their existence can be indirectly checked for by measuring the processes which give rise to it.

Again, that is entirely your opinion.

Actually, it's fact.

no brain activity--> no emergent sentience

Sorry, but that's a dodge. I didn't say "no activity = no sentience" was your opinion. I said "the person is the sentient mind" is your opinion.

 

[JD_2B]

You stupid pathetic ignorant excuse of humanity. Your Constipation is your LAW MAKER............ABORTION is legal.

That you have the balls to keep that particular quote as your sig, I think says all we need to know about your credibility. What the SC said about abortion is that people have a right to privacy under the constitution.....up until viability of the fetus. I can only speculate that the reason for that was even they realized the possibility that at a certain point abortion could potentially be considered as infringing on the rights of another.

Even women who must abort a viable fetus have privacy rights, you dick. This is legal in all 50 states, to save her life.

The definition here that you need to understand is how one infringes upon a life of another, and how that affects the life in question. You never stop to think about the woman's life in any way other than if it is on the verge of being lost physically. Her social life, her emotional bonds with her family or church, her life as an abused woman, her life as an abandoned woman, her life as a teenager who was the victim of incest whose father tried to force her to remain in the basement, who ran away... the woman who worked her fingers to the bone and kept herself hidden from the world for 6 months, just to be rid of the condition of being pregnant, to preserve her reputation.. None of that life stuff matters to you. You do not cherish a woman's life as anything other than a bitch with a slice of cum toilet heaven between her legs who happens to have a pulse. You know NOTHING about LIFE, or how to treasure or honor it. When you DO realize that the FETUS infringes upon a woman's life, by barring her from promotions, by causing her to need more food than she can afford to buy and eat, by making her legs hurt and her stomach upset, and her body get fat and scarred for life.. By ruining her life because she SIMPLY is not ready to have the responsibility of even having something growing inside of her, or that although she was ready when she got pregnant, her situation changed immensely and she decided LATER that she could not go through with it- Get back with us, here in a little place known as the REAL WORLD.

Til then fuck off.

 

[JD_2B]

Are you still claiming the mother's blood enters the fetus?

Apparently now she's not just claiming that, she's claiming that it's the mother's heart that's FORCING oxygenated blood into the fetus.

Explain to the class how the fetus gets oxygen into its own blood, then, you stupid cuntrag.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Actually, it's fact.

no brain activity--> no emergent sentience

True, but "person = sentience" is entirely your opinion.

to use 'person=human organism' is meaningless. What is missing in the braindead if not the mind? If dependence on machines is all, then what of a man with a failing heart or kidneys?

To YOU it's meaningless, because you're emotionally attached to what you consider "sentience". What's missing in the braindead other than "the mind" is the rudimentary ability to self-govern, ie. to control any and all body functions. In other words, what is missing in the braindead is LIFE, which is why they're called "brainDEAD".

And no, it's not that "dependence on machines is all". A man with a bad heart has ONE malfunctioning organ. He's still alive, his brain is still controlling body function and sending out directions, but his heart isn't responding properly to those directions. In a braindead person, the organs are capable of acting on the directions, but no directions are being sent.

 

[Cecilie1200]

the 'person' is the sentient mind

Still your opinion.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Bern,

It doesnt matter......ABORTION is legal.

So was slavery.

What's your point?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I thought we were discussing the value of tissue versus the mind and when the organism should be protected?

No. You might have been. I'm talking dead vs. alive. I have the distinct impression that you have an emotional investment in the idea of sentience, such that you're a bit obsessed with it and unable to separate it from the simple issue of life. For myself, I don't equate the two. Many things on Earth are alive but do not exhibit the level of sentience adult humans normally have.

Exactly, and we do not treat those things as people. The amount of protection given is roughly correlated with how much they resemble us in that regard. Noone cares about ants and fish, save for a few extremists, but dogs, apes, and dolphins are generally much more respected and revered for their superior intellectual abilities and, in the case of dogs, the usefulness which stems from it.

Again I ask you of extraterrestrials and sentient machines- why does it matter, what system the mind emerges from?


When the body dies, we lament because the minds as well. Oft, much of the tissue can be saved and even become part of another organism (eg: transplants). Nobody in their right mind claims that any part of the mind is transferred with the hand.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Again, that is entirely your opinion.

Actually, it's fact.

no brain activity--> no emergent sentience

Sorry, but that's a dodge. I didn't say "no activity = no sentience" was your opinion. I said "the person is the sentient mind" is your opinion.

It's the reality.

The person is the mind. We recognize that when the person dies, they are gone, even if every tissue save the brain which gave rise to the ind in question could be saved.

If it was merely life that mattered, every cell would qualify. That would be utter absurdity.