What would America be like if the anti-Abortion types win?

[JoeB131]

Now Joe says we need to be like the Philippines ? I can see how he would what with all the natives killing each other in droves where he lives. Maybe we start executing folks when cought with an ounce of meth or a fat sack of weed? Honestly, this OP is nothing more then a pitiful attempt to harvest hugs. Camp/Campmbell must be having a sad face day.

Wow, I bet you don't even know what that song or that album is about, do you?

Anyway, I see your reading comprehension skills are pretty poor. Go back and read the OP, and then have someone explain the big words you didn't understand.

NEXT!

 

[JoeB131]

The OP's argument simplified: "People are going to commit murder anyway, so it should be legal".

No, the argument is, "People are going to have abortions, and the law against abortion is effectively unenforceable."

You see, that's the difference between abortion and murder. If I saw my neighbor kill someone, I'd call the cops.

I would never rat out a woman to the authorities for having an abortion, and neither would most people. Cops won't arrest women for having them (They didn't even when abortion was against the law), prosecutors will decline to prosecute and juries won't convict.

So what you will have is a law that will make you feel good, but won't change much of anything.

Which is EXACTLY what you have currently in the Philippines right now.

 

[JoeB131]

This space was reserved for intelligent discourse.....

...how did you slither past security??????

He saw that your number-pointed crazy was here and decided to mock it.

 

[Crixus]

Now Joe says we need to be like the Philippines ? I can see how he would what with all the natives killing each other in droves where he lives. Maybe we start executing folks when cought with an ounce of meth or a fat sack of weed? Honestly, this OP is nothing more then a pitiful attempt to harvest hugs. Camp/Campmbell must be having a sad face day.

Wow, I bet you don't even know what that song or that album is about, do you?

Anyway, I see your reading comprehension skills are pretty poor. Go back and read the OP, and then have someone explain the big words you didn't understand.

NEXT!

You know what it’s about and the comparison between Pink and you are. That’s why you have to run crying to a mod when ever it’s made. Really, the only difference between the sniveling twerp who wrote that and you is that he got payed lots of money for his gripe, and all you get to do is have lonely back yard bar-bq’s. That aside, it’s your opinion that because abortion sucks in the Philippines, it should be the law here. All you can do is toss stats that back your drivel. Because abortion sucks in a third world shit hole, and it’s illegal, we should have it here. When even when abortion was illegal here it was nowhere near as bad as dumb shits like you point it out to be. You do the same thing every time

“I’m JoeB. I served in ww2, Korea, Vietnam, and every gulf war since 1970. I helped Eisenhower get elected, blah, blah. Your point is that stupid.

 

[JoeB131]

You know what it’s about and the comparison between Pink and you are. That’s why you have to run crying to a mod when ever it’s made. Really, the only difference between the sniveling twerp who wrote that and you is that he got payed lots of money for his gripe

Guy, you aren't worthy to carry Roger Waters' guitar case..

Here's a crazy idea, maybe follow the rules of the forum instead of whining when the mods spank you for breaking the rules...

That aside, it’s your opinion that because abortion sucks in the Philippines, it should be the law here. All you can do is toss stats that back your drivel. Because abortion sucks in a third world shit hole, and it’s illegal, we should have it here.

No, you obviously didn't comprehend the OP at all...

Here is a country where these laws SHOULD work. The people are very religious (90% Catholic and very devout), the government is a lot less keen on respecting individual and civil rights. Doctors are less inclined to perform them. Yet with that much of a running start... they have more abortions than we do.

 

[Crixus]

All their screaming about "infanticide" aside, do you ever wonder what our country would look like if the Anti-Choice fanatics got their way.

Well, thanks to the modern miracles of actually understanding there is a rest of the world out there, we have a real life example.

The Philippines, former American Colony, has exactly the kind of anti-choice laws you guys want.

How's that working out.. Well, let's review.

Unintended Pregnancy and Unsafe Abortion in the Philippines

• The Philippines abortion law is among the strictest in the world. Abortion is illegal under all circumstances and there are no explicit exceptions. Nonetheless, because of high levels of unintended pregnancy, abortion is common in the country. Projections that were based on the national abortion rate in 2000 (the most recent available) and that took into account population increase estimated that 560,000 abortions occurred in 2008 and 610,000 abortions took place in 2012.[2,8,9]

• About 1,000 Filipino women die each year from abortion complications, which contributes to the nation’s high maternal mortality rate. Projections that were based on data from 2000 indicate that 100,000 women were hospitalized for abortion complications in 2012; countless others suffered complications that went untreated.[4,9]

• The stigma surrounding abortion makes it difficult for women to seek postabortion care. Some women report feeling shamed and intimidated by health care workers and in some cases, women are not given pain relievers or anesthetics or are denied treatment all together. Others report being threatened that they would be turned over to the police.[5,8]

This is what makes dumb shits like Jose/camp/Campbell look k stupid in this issue, as well as those who are always arguing about it. First off, any other country and their opinion mean fuckall as far as America go’s. They are a non issue.


Abortion in the United States - Wikipedia

Before the U.S. Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade decriminalised abortion nationwide in 1973, abortion was already legal in several states, but the decision imposed a uniform framework for state legislation on the subject.

And Webster,

bor·tion
/əˈbôrSH(ə)n/
noun

1. 1.
   the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.
   "concerns such as abortion and euthanasia"
   synonyms: termination, miscarriage;
   rarefeticide
   "she had an abortion"
   
   
   So in THIS country if you want abortion as it’s defined by the SCOTUS, congress needs to MAKE A LAW of what abortion is, is not and when it’s to late to get one done, and if tax payers will pay for it. So you know, if you are a tax payer, you HAVE payed for abortions. I can’t say “most America”, it I can say most Americans I know support a woman’s right to choose as defined above, but not what angry simpltons like JoeB/camp/campbell advocate. So take ALLL this energy and point it at those whom y’all elect and tell them to make a damn law.

 

[Crixus]

You know what it’s about and the comparison between Pink and you are. That’s why you have to run crying to a mod when ever it’s made. Really, the only difference between the sniveling twerp who wrote that and you is that he got payed lots of money for his gripe

Guy, you aren't worthy to carry Roger Waters' guitar case..

Here's a crazy idea, maybe follow the rules of the forum instead of whining when the mods spank you for breaking the rules...

That aside, it’s your opinion that because abortion sucks in the Philippines, it should be the law here. All you can do is toss stats that back your drivel. Because abortion sucks in a third world shit hole, and it’s illegal, we should have it here.

No, you obviously didn't comprehend the OP at all...

Here is a country where these laws SHOULD work. The people are very religious (90% Catholic and very devout), the government is a lot less keen on respecting individual and civil rights. Doctors are less inclined to perform them. Yet with that much of a running start... they have more abortions than we do.

Guy, you are just an angry guy. I’ll send you an E hug fatso.

 

[Crixus]

More pieces of shit like you.

That's why I don't oppose abortion. I just don't participate in it.

It’s a non-sexy topic, but it’s a conversation that needs to be had. There has to be a national law passed. Pro life people need to deal with it, pro choice people need to deal with it and it needs to STOP being an issue that polititions can use to gin up their base.

 

[Crixus]

All their screaming about "infanticide" aside, do you ever wonder what our country would look like if the Anti-Choice fanatics got their way.

Well, thanks to the modern miracles of actually understanding there is a rest of the world out there, we have a real life example.

The Philippines, former American Colony, has exactly the kind of anti-choice laws you guys want.

How's that working out.. Well, let's review.

Unintended Pregnancy and Unsafe Abortion in the Philippines

• The Philippines abortion law is among the strictest in the world. Abortion is illegal under all circumstances and there are no explicit exceptions. Nonetheless, because of high levels of unintended pregnancy, abortion is common in the country. Projections that were based on the national abortion rate in 2000 (the most recent available) and that took into account population increase estimated that 560,000 abortions occurred in 2008 and 610,000 abortions took place in 2012.[2,8,9]

• About 1,000 Filipino women die each year from abortion complications, which contributes to the nation’s high maternal mortality rate. Projections that were based on data from 2000 indicate that 100,000 women were hospitalized for abortion complications in 2012; countless others suffered complications that went untreated.[4,9]

• The stigma surrounding abortion makes it difficult for women to seek postabortion care. Some women report feeling shamed and intimidated by health care workers and in some cases, women are not given pain relievers or anesthetics or are denied treatment all together. Others report being threatened that they would be turned over to the police.[5,8]

That is what they want and they want to kill on the spot people they claim sell or do drugs..

Retroactive abortion. What’s the big deal?

 

[JoeB131]

This is what makes dumb shits like Jose/camp/Campbell look k stupid in this issue, as well as those who are always arguing about it. First off, any other country and their opinion mean fuckall as far as America go’s. They are a non issue.

Well, no, they kind of aren't. The thing is, NO country has ever effectively banned abortion. for much the same reason these laws didn't work here.

So in THIS country if you want abortion as it’s defined by the SCOTUS, congress needs to MAKE A LAW of what abortion is, is not and when it’s to late to get one done, and if tax payers will pay for it. So you know, if you are a tax payer, you HAVE payed for abortions. I can’t say “most America”, it I can say most Americans I know support a woman’s right to choose as defined above, but not what angry simpltons like JoeB/camp/campbell advocate. So take ALLL this energy and point it at those whom y’all elect and tell them to make a damn law.

But this was the problem. Before 1973, women had as many abortions as they do now. They went to their OB/GYN, the OB/GYN performed the abortion, and wrote down something else on the chart. But the politicians were too afraid of the Churches to actually change these archaic laws...

Everyone figured that Roe would be like Griswald a few years earlier. People would gripe, but the real world would be the real world.

What happened was that the GOP realized that abortion was a good way to keep stupid working class Christians upset and distracted as to what they were doing to their nice unionized middle class. Of course, they were careful about it... they made sure that they appointed enough moderates so that Roe never actually got overturned. They didn't want to litigate this issue.

My guess is since Roberts isn't an idiot, he will suddenly discover stare decisis and vote to keep Roe.

 

[JoeB131]

It’s a non-sexy topic, but it’s a conversation that needs to be had. There has to be a national law passed. Pro life people need to deal with it, pro choice people need to deal with it and it needs to STOP being an issue that polititions can use to gin up their base.

We have a national law... Roe v. Wade.

If the court overturns it, we will have a Democratic President and Congress pretty soon after that, and problem solved.

 

[Crixus]

This is what makes dumb shits like Jose/camp/Campbell look k stupid in this issue, as well as those who are always arguing about it. First off, any other country and their opinion mean fuckall as far as America go’s. They are a non issue.

Well, no, they kind of aren't. The thing is, NO country has ever effectively banned abortion. for much the same reason these laws didn't work here.

So in THIS country if you want abortion as it’s defined by the SCOTUS, congress needs to MAKE A LAW of what abortion is, is not and when it’s to late to get one done, and if tax payers will pay for it. So you know, if you are a tax payer, you HAVE payed for abortions. I can’t say “most America”, it I can say most Americans I know support a woman’s right to choose as defined above, but not what angry simpltons like JoeB/camp/campbell advocate. So take ALLL this energy and point it at those whom y’all elect and tell them to make a damn law.

But this was the problem. Before 1973, women had as many abortions as they do now. They went to their OB/GYN, the OB/GYN performed the abortion, and wrote down something else on the chart. But the politicians were too afraid of the Churches to actually change these archaic laws...

Everyone figured that Roe would be like Griswald a few years earlier. People would gripe, but the real world would be the real world.

What happened was that the GOP realized that abortion was a good way to keep stupid working class Christians upset and distracted as to what they were doing to their nice unionized middle class. Of course, they were careful about it... they made sure that they appointed enough moderates so that Roe never actually got overturned. They didn't want to litigate this issue.

My guess is since Roberts isn't an idiot, he will suddenly discover stare decisis and vote to keep Roe.

First part,

1. Bull shit. Abortion was legal in many states. It was only illegal in a few states. Legal in others, and not avalible as a form of birth control so in your first paragraph you lied . Typical.

2. You are right partially. Yup, Republicans DID find that abortions was a way to gin up religious fundamentalist, and the democrat party found it was a way to gin up their base. So both lodes are stupid. Make a fucking law and be done with it.

3. With or without Roberts, it’s not for him to say. The SCOTUS does not make law. The fact that you think he does is very telling. But with Buzzy doing the waltz with the reaper, no nuts Roberts won’t be an issue much longer, and you will soon be singing the praises of Justice Kavanaugh because of this topic.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

What are you claiming that George Bush said about Willie Horton that was untrue?

Well, to start with, his name wasn't "Willie", it was William. But Willie sounded more ghetto, so they went with that.

He also said that Mike Dukakis came up withe misguided program that let him out on furlough, but that policy was developed by Dukakis' Republican predecessor, Francis Sargeant.

In short, Bush lied... but that's what his whole family does.

Did Mr. Bush claim that Mr. Dukakis originated that ill-conceived prison furlough program? Surely, he knew better.

In any event, the furlough program, as originally enacted, specifically excluded those who had been convicted of first-degree murder. A court ruling overturned that exclusion. Massachusetts legislature then passed a bill, to reinstate this exclusion, which Governor Dukakis vetoed, stating that it would “cut the heart out of efforts at inmate rehabilitation.”

So it was Dukakis' policy, that even convicted first-degree murderers were eligible for this furlough program; and it was under this policy that Mr. Horton, having been convicted fo first-degree murder, and sentenced to life without parole, was released on such a furlough, which led to him committing a string of violent crimes including assault, rape, and robbery.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least, giving your insane and sociopathic nature, that you might agree with Mr. Dukakis that it is a good idea to let a convicted murderer, serving a life-without-parole sentence, out on such a furlough; but I think any sane person would strongly disagree.

If Mr. Bush stated that Mr. Dukakis had originated this furlough program, then he was in error; however, there is no error in clearly stating that Mr. Dukakis was personally and wholly culpable for the policy that allowed Mr. Horton out to commit a string of violent crimes. If there was truly any real justice in this case, then Mr. Dukakis would spend the rest of his life in the same prison, in a cell next to Mr. Horton's.

 

[playtime]

gerri santoro would like to tell you but she can't. she died from an illegal abortion & was found on the floor of a motel room by a maid.

 

[JoeB131]

First part,

1. Bull shit. Abortion was legal in many states. It was only illegal in a few states. Legal in others, and not avalible as a form of birth control so in your first paragraph you lied . Typical.

Okay, here's a map of abortion law in 1973.

Please note, only FOUR states had "Abortion on demand". All the rest it was illegal except the most dire circumstances..

This is why no one takes you seriously. It took me all of five seconds to find this map

2. You are right partially. Yup, Republicans DID find that abortions was a way to gin up religious fundamentalist, and the democrat party found it was a way to gin up their base. So both lodes are stupid. Make a fucking law and be done with it.

yes, because once a law gets made, that's the end of it... I'm sure this is what you really believe.

God, did you not learn basic civics in middle school?

3. With or without Roberts, it’s not for him to say. The SCOTUS does not make law. The fact that you think he does is very telling. But with Buzzy doing the waltz with the reaper, no nuts Roberts won’t be an issue much longer, and you will soon be singing the praises of Justice Kavanaugh because of this topic.

Actually, I don't think Ginsburg is going to retire until after Trump is gone. Then we can start working on getting rid of Uncle Thomas. Or we can impeach Kavanaugh for lying.

 

[JoeB131]

Did Mr. Bush claim that Mr. Dukakis originated that ill-conceived prison furlough program? Surely, he knew better.

In any event, the furlough program, as originally enacted, specifically excluded those who had been convicted of first-degree murder. A court ruling overturned that exclusion. Massachusetts legislature then passed a bill, to reinstate this exclusion, which Governor Dukakis vetoed, stating that it would “cut the heart out of efforts at inmate rehabilitation.”

Because it was overly broad and defeated the purpose of the furlough program.

What was the purpose of the furlough program? It was the realization that these guys had to learn how to re-assimilate into regular society. You know, so they don't shank someone in the grocery line during an argument over who got the last can of peas.

The thing was, between Dukakis' first and second terms, there was another Republican, Edward King and he didn't reimpose draconian version of this law, either. Because the concept was decent, just the execution was horrible.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least, giving your insane and sociopathic nature, that you might agree with Mr. Dukakis that it is a good idea to let a convicted murderer, serving a life-without-parole sentence, out on such a furlough; but I think any sane person would strongly disagree.

It didn't matter what 'sane' people think, it was a matter of how the law was written...

Let's not forget, Mike Huckabee let rapists and murderers out of prison if they said "Jesus" sincerely enough. some of them went on to murder and rape other people. But I don't hear you whining about that.

If Mr. Bush stated that Mr. Dukakis had originated this furlough program, then he was in error; however, there is no error in clearly stating that Mr. Dukakis was personally and wholly culpable for the policy that allowed Mr. Horton

No, he wasn't personally and wholly culpable.

You also have the
Legislature who wrote the original bad law.
The court that ruled that it didn't exclude murderers
The legislature that couldn't come up with a reasonable fix
The Warden who thought Horton was a good candidate for the program.

In short, a LOT of people involved in this fuck-up.

that allowed Mr. Horton out to commit a string of violent crimes. If there was truly any real justice in this case, then Mr. Dukakis would spend the rest of his life in the same prison, in a cell next to Mr. Horton's.

You seem to have a lot of bloodlust in your life... but it oddly only applies to those who disagree with you.

I'd like to see the Bush family held responsible for all the people who died in their largely unnecessary wars, but I don't want to do horrible thing to them.

But you belong to a sociopathic cult, so I will give you a break.

 

[Crixus]

First part,

1. Bull shit. Abortion was legal in many states. It was only illegal in a few states. Legal in others, and not avalible as a form of birth control so in your first paragraph you lied . Typical.

Okay, here's a map of abortion law in 1973.

Please note, only FOUR states had "Abortion on demand". All the rest it was illegal except the most dire circumstances..

This is why no one takes you seriously. It took me all of five seconds to find this map

2. You are right partially. Yup, Republicans DID find that abortions was a way to gin up religious fundamentalist, and the democrat party found it was a way to gin up their base. So both lodes are stupid. Make a fucking law and be done with it.

yes, because once a law gets made, that's the end of it... I'm sure this is what you really believe.

God, did you not learn basic civics in middle school?

3. With or without Roberts, it’s not for him to say. The SCOTUS does not make law. The fact that you think he does is very telling. But with Buzzy doing the waltz with the reaper, no nuts Roberts won’t be an issue much longer, and you will soon be singing the praises of Justice Kavanaugh because of this topic.

Actually, I don't think Ginsburg is going to retire until after Trump is gone. Then we can start working on getting rid of Uncle Thomas. Or we can impeach Kavanaugh for lying.

All that work for more nothing. One of it matters. Abortions aren’t law. Abortions will not go away with a court ruling, if they can
Fosho. So then, make a law. In that law define abortion. What “abortion” is, and what abortion is not. Then that law can be challenged in court, and then its fate won’t hang on the whim of a justice ore two. Any other comment on any aspect of abortions in any other country are meaningless. Remove the issue all together.

 

[JoeB131]

All that work for more nothing. One of it matters. Abortions aren’t law. Abortions will not go away with a court ruling, if they can
Fosho. So then, make a law. In that law define abortion. What “abortion” is, and what abortion is not. Then that law can be challenged in court, and then its fate won’t hang on the whim of a justice ore two. Any other comment on any aspect of abortions in any other country are meaningless. Remove the issue all together.

You seem to have a child-like view of the world... you truly do.

 

[Crixus]

All that work for more nothing. One of it matters. Abortions aren’t law. Abortions will not go away with a court ruling, if they can
Fosho. So then, make a law. In that law define abortion. What “abortion” is, and what abortion is not. Then that law can be challenged in court, and then its fate won’t hang on the whim of a justice ore two. Any other comment on any aspect of abortions in any other country are meaningless. Remove the issue all together.

You seem to have a child-like view of the world... you truly do.

Not really. Most Americans support the right to choose as its defined, or was back in the day. America could accept a law legalizing abortion as its defined, but you political cultist like having it as an issue on a message board so you can swap barbs and get little emoji’s saying how cool you are.

 

[JoeB131]

Not really. Most Americans support the right to choose as its defined, or was back in the day. America could accept a law legalizing abortion as its defined, but you political cultist like having it as an issue on a message board so you can swap barbs and get little emoji’s saying how cool you are.

Um, no, not really.

Here's the thing... if you asked most Americans if they think abortion should be used as contraception, they'd have reservations, but maybe grudingly allow it. That's really what we are talking about when we talk about 98% of abortions, performed on non-viable, consensual conceived fetuses as a form of birth control.

But we aren't discussing cases, we are discussing law and how to apply it.

So the pro-life person will talk about the late abortion fetus that makes up 1% of abortions performed, and the pro-choicer will talk about the fetus that happens because of rape or incest, which is also about 1% of abortions performed.

That is where the discussion is taking place, but if you allow for these fringes, the whole premise falls apart. If you are arguing that, yeah, I'm pro-life, but I can totally see aborting a rape-fetus... then you are on thin ice rhetorically. If you are pro-choice but want to ban abortion in the third trimester... then why not the second or when a heartbeat starts or when God gives a baby a soul?

This isn't a simple question, which is why I go to the Pro-reality position. A woman who doesn't want to be pregnant will find a way to not be pregnant.

Regardless of how i feel about abortion personally or your reasons for wanting one, a practical matter is either you are going to have unenforceable laws like we had pre-1973 or in the Philippines, or we are going to have to have a pretty draconian system that makes "A Handmaid's Tale" look like weak sauce.