What Would Be So Awful About Overturning Roe v. Wade & Saving Unborn Children's Lives?

[Dragonlady]

The fetus is NOT a child. It is a potential child. It doesn’t become a child until it draws its own breathe.

Keep telling yourself that. Euphemisms don't change the reality, that it's a baby just as precious as a newborn baby. To claim that the pre-born magically becomes a child once he's on the other side of the birth canal is laughable. In other words, location determines humanity? It sounds like you'd be perfectly OK with butchering a pre-born baby who is one day away from delivery… Just because he happens to be on the other side of the birth canal.

You give more rights to that potential human than to the human being who will be bound to him or her for her own life. You strip her right to make a decision to bind her life to another..

Nope, just the right to life, like every other human being.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t strip others of their rights and beliefs. The moment you force you me religious beliefs on others, you do to them what you accuse others of doing to you - denying you freedom of religion.

In other words: "If you think rape is wrong, don't rape anyone, but I'm going to rape." "If you think murder is wrong, don't murder anyone, but I'm going to murder." Etc. etc. There is no "right" to take an innocent human life.

If every life is so sacred, why aren’t you screaming at the top of your lungs about children being taken from their parents and locked in cages.

Red herring. That has absolutely zilch to do with abortion. But to answer your question, unlike some of you, I don't believe everything I'm spoonfed by the controlled mainstream media.

It is you who is denying reality.

The decision as to whether to become a parent, to give your life over to a child, is the most personal decision a family makes.

This is not YOUR decision. This is not your child, your family or your faith. You are not making any commitment to this woman or her child. It is NONE of your business.

When you are the one who is pregnant, you cherish your ability to have the finances and the family around you to support you and your family to raise this child.

Republican policies opposing maternity leave or job security for pregnant women, or even health care for working families, drives your abortion numbers.

Don’t whine about saving babies if you’re condemning them to a life of poverty and deprivations, and then brand them “takers” when they fail to raise themselves out of the poverty they we’re born into.

 

[buttercup]

The fetus is NOT a child. It is a potential child. It doesn’t become a child until it draws its own breathe.

Keep telling yourself that. Euphemisms don't change the reality, that it's a baby just as precious as a newborn baby. To claim that the pre-born magically becomes a child once he's on the other side of the birth canal is laughable. In other words, location determines humanity? It sounds like you'd be perfectly OK with butchering a pre-born baby who is one day away from delivery… Just because he happens to be on the other side of the birth canal.

You give more rights to that potential human than to the human being who will be bound to him or her for her own life. You strip her right to make a decision to bind her life to another..

Nope, just the right to life, like every other human being.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t strip others of their rights and beliefs. The moment you force you me religious beliefs on others, you do to them what you accuse others of doing to you - denying you freedom of religion.

In other words: "If you think rape is wrong, don't rape anyone, but I'm going to rape." "If you think murder is wrong, don't murder anyone, but I'm going to murder." Etc. etc. There is no "right" to take an innocent human life.

If every life is so sacred, why aren’t you screaming at the top of your lungs about children being taken from their parents and locked in cages.

Red herring. That has absolutely zilch to do with abortion. But to answer your question, unlike some of you, I don't believe everything I'm spoonfed by the controlled mainstream media.

It is you who is denying reality.

The decision as to whether to become a parent, to give your life over to a child, is the most personal decision a family makes.

This is not YOUR decision. This is not your child, your family or your faith. You are not making any commitment to this woman or her child. It is NONE of your business.

When you are the one who is pregnant, you cherish your ability to have the finances and the family around you to support you and your family to raise this child.

Republican policies opposing maternity leave or job security for pregnant women, or even health care for working families, drives your abortion numbers.

Don’t whine about saving babies if you’re condemning them to a life of poverty and deprivations, and then brand them “takers” when they fail to raise themselves out of the poverty they we’re born into.

You didn't acknowledge anything I said, and everything you brought up is a strawman.

 

[Asclepias]

The fetus is NOT a child. It is a potential child. It doesn’t become a child until it draws its own breathe.

Keep telling yourself that. Euphemisms don't change the reality, that it's a baby just as precious as a newborn baby. To claim that the pre-born magically becomes a child once he's on the other side of the birth canal is laughable. In other words, location determines humanity? It sounds like you'd be perfectly OK with butchering a pre-born baby who is one day away from delivery… Just because he happens to be on the other side of the birth canal.

You give more rights to that potential human than to the human being who will be bound to him or her for her own life. You strip her right to make a decision to bind her life to another..

Nope, just the right to life, like every other human being.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t strip others of their rights and beliefs. The moment you force you me religious beliefs on others, you do to them what you accuse others of doing to you - denying you freedom of religion.

In other words: "If you think rape is wrong, don't rape anyone, but I'm going to rape." "If you think murder is wrong, don't murder anyone, but I'm going to murder." Etc. etc. There is no "right" to take an innocent human life.

If every life is so sacred, why aren’t you screaming at the top of your lungs about children being taken from their parents and locked in cages.

Red herring. That has absolutely zilch to do with abortion. But to answer your question, unlike some of you, I don't believe everything I'm spoonfed by the controlled mainstream media.

It is you who is denying reality.

The decision as to whether to become a parent, to give your life over to a child, is the most personal decision a family makes.

This is not YOUR decision. This is not your child, your family or your faith. You are not making any commitment to this woman or her child. It is NONE of your business.

When you are the one who is pregnant, you cherish your ability to have the finances and the family around you to support you and your family to raise this child.

Republican policies opposing maternity leave or job security for pregnant women, or even health care for working families, drives your abortion numbers.

Don’t whine about saving babies if you’re condemning them to a life of poverty and deprivations, and then brand them “takers” when they fail to raise themselves out of the poverty they we’re born into.

You didn't acknowledge anything I said, and everything you brought up is a strawman.

Youre amazing at bringing up strawmen. Why are you complaining?

 

[BuckToothMoron]

What exactly would be so awful or terrible about overturning Roe v. Wade, allowing the states to resume control over the issue, and saving thousands or tens of thousands of unborn babies' lives?

Roe v. Wade was based on junk science, junk law, and on the myth of an epidemic of "back alley abortions." Legalized elective abortion is far more of a stain on our nation's history than slavery was. The number of babies killed by abortion dwarfs the number of slaves who were killed by abusive slaveholders.

If Roe v. Wade were overturned, state governments would retake control of the issue. Some states would legalize all abortion except partial-birth abortion (which is illegal under federal law). Other states would place significant restrictions on abortion. And some states would ban most or all abortions. Undoubtedly, thousands or tens of thousands of babies would be saved from abortion.

If women were really determined to kill their babies for their own convenience (i.e., elective abortion), they could always go to a state where elective abortion were legal.

Debunking the myth of ‘back-alley’ abortions

U.S. Abortion Statistics

Chilean Study Proves that Outlawing Abortion Does Not Lead to "Coat-hanger Deaths"

https://www.mccl.org/single-post/2017/01/20/The-three-fundamental-problems-with-Roe-v-Wade

Science Has Advanced Since Roe v. Wade But Abortion Laws Haven’t

It's a scientific fact: Human life begins at conception

Life Begins at Fertilization with the Embryo's Conception

When Does Life Begin | Just The Facts

What’s wrong with overturning RVW? Your daughter getting an abortion in an alley with a coat hangar, that’s what’s wrong with it.

 

[Dragonlady]

The fetus is NOT a child. It is a potential child. It doesn’t become a child until it draws its own breathe.

Keep telling yourself that. Euphemisms don't change the reality, that it's a baby just as precious as a newborn baby. To claim that the pre-born magically becomes a child once he's on the other side of the birth canal is laughable. In other words, location determines humanity? It sounds like you'd be perfectly OK with butchering a pre-born baby who is one day away from delivery… Just because he happens to be on the other side of the birth canal.

You give more rights to that potential human than to the human being who will be bound to him or her for her own life. You strip her right to make a decision to bind her life to another..

Nope, just the right to life, like every other human being.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t strip others of their rights and beliefs. The moment you force you me religious beliefs on others, you do to them what you accuse others of doing to you - denying you freedom of religion.

In other words: "If you think rape is wrong, don't rape anyone, but I'm going to rape." "If you think murder is wrong, don't murder anyone, but I'm going to murder." Etc. etc. There is no "right" to take an innocent human life.

If every life is so sacred, why aren’t you screaming at the top of your lungs about children being taken from their parents and locked in cages.

Red herring. That has absolutely zilch to do with abortion. But to answer your question, unlike some of you, I don't believe everything I'm spoonfed by the controlled mainstream media.

It is you who is denying reality.

The decision as to whether to become a parent, to give your life over to a child, is the most personal decision a family makes.

This is not YOUR decision. This is not your child, your family or your faith. You are not making any commitment to this woman or her child. It is NONE of your business.

When you are the one who is pregnant, you cherish your ability to have the finances and the family around you to support you and your family to raise this child.

Republican policies opposing maternity leave or job security for pregnant women, or even health care for working families, drives your abortion numbers.

Don’t whine about saving babies if you’re condemning them to a life of poverty and deprivations, and then brand them “takers” when they fail to raise themselves out of the poverty they we’re born into.

You didn't acknowledge anything I said, and everything you brought up is a strawman.

Why would I give credence to your lies and fallacies by responding to them? The moment you start talking about the right to life of a fetus, you utterly ignore any rights the mother has to life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. You strip her of any right at all except to gestate that potential, until the pregnancy either terminates in a spontaneous abortion, or the child reaches term and is delivered.

Your pictures are lovely but meaningless. Your little seahorse doesn’t have rights. Period. End of story. The woman gets to choose her life and that of her family. That’s the right to privacy.

I can’t believe I have to explain that to you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The fetus is NOT a child. It is a potential child. It doesn’t become a child until it draws its own breathe.

Keep telling yourself that. Euphemisms don't change the reality, that it's a baby just as precious as a newborn baby. To claim that the pre-born magically becomes a child once he's on the other side of the birth canal is laughable. In other words, location determines humanity? It sounds like you'd be perfectly OK with butchering a pre-born baby who is one day away from delivery… Just because he happens to be on the other side of the birth canal.

You give more rights to that potential human than to the human being who will be bound to him or her for her own life. You strip her right to make a decision to bind her life to another..

Nope, just the right to life, like every other human being.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t strip others of their rights and beliefs. The moment you force you me religious beliefs on others, you do to them what you accuse others of doing to you - denying you freedom of religion.

In other words: "If you think rape is wrong, don't rape anyone, but I'm going to rape." "If you think murder is wrong, don't murder anyone, but I'm going to murder." Etc. etc. There is no "right" to take an innocent human life.

If every life is so sacred, why aren’t you screaming at the top of your lungs about children being taken from their parents and locked in cages.

Red herring. That has absolutely zilch to do with abortion. But to answer your question, unlike some of you, I don't believe everything I'm spoonfed by the controlled mainstream media.

How precious is a fetus? I mean, give me a quantity here.

We have 7 billion people on this planet and growing. We're able to keep people alive for a long time with modern medicine.

Children are not as precious as they were a few hundred years ago when 75% were dying before the age of 5 in some places like London.

Actually, birth rates have gone down in many places… because in this day and age, people aren't having as many kids as they used to. Especially in Europe, but in other places too. And not to get off topic, but I believe the "overpopulation" fearmongering is just that. It's a lie.

As for how precious the pre-born is, I believe that all human beings are inherently valuable. As I said to dragon lady, it makes no sense to think that the pre-born goes from being disposable garbage one second, to a precious valuable baby, the next second, once he is on the other side of the birth canal. To not see how silly that is is to be willfully blind.

Birth rates are going down in SOME places, and in the world birth rates are too high.

It's still a problem.

Oh, you believe that overpopulation isn't a problem. Right.

You know, when it comes to other animals, we're rather quick to start hunting the fuckers down when their population numbers get too high. When humans get too high, you don't give a damn.

Ah, you BELIEVE all human beings are precious. It's just a belief. That's all there is.

Did you support the Iraq War? Do you support executions?

What's the difference between a dog's life and a human's life? Why is a dog's life less precious?

So you're saying that you don't believe that human life is valuable? I hope you realize that that mentality is what leads to things like violence, murder, horrible human rights abuses, genocide. In fact, that communist-like mentality is what led to hundreds of millions of deaths in the 20th century alone.

No I did not support the Iraq war, and if you're talking about capital punishment, I have mixed feelings about it, but I am more on the side of being against it, mainly because I don't trust the government...and I don't think it's wise to give that sort of power to a corrupt government.

But anyway, this is getting off topic. What is your point?

No, I'm not saying human life isn't valuable.

I'm saying we don't need to act like if we lose one life, humanity might struggle, as happened in the past.

We don't have massive child mortality rates. So what's the point in having loads of children?

I'm saying that in the modern era we can offer people far more than subsistence living. We can make choices about having children so the children grow up with a good standard of living.

So, if you are only going to have one child, is it better to have that child when you're ready to have that child, or is it better to have that child when you're not ready?

 

[buttercup]

The fetus is NOT a child. It is a potential child. It doesn’t become a child until it draws its own breathe.

Keep telling yourself that. Euphemisms don't change the reality, that it's a baby just as precious as a newborn baby. To claim that the pre-born magically becomes a child once he's on the other side of the birth canal is laughable. In other words, location determines humanity? It sounds like you'd be perfectly OK with butchering a pre-born baby who is one day away from delivery… Just because he happens to be on the other side of the birth canal.

You give more rights to that potential human than to the human being who will be bound to him or her for her own life. You strip her right to make a decision to bind her life to another..

Nope, just the right to life, like every other human being.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t strip others of their rights and beliefs. The moment you force you me religious beliefs on others, you do to them what you accuse others of doing to you - denying you freedom of religion.

In other words: "If you think rape is wrong, don't rape anyone, but I'm going to rape." "If you think murder is wrong, don't murder anyone, but I'm going to murder." Etc. etc. There is no "right" to take an innocent human life.

If every life is so sacred, why aren’t you screaming at the top of your lungs about children being taken from their parents and locked in cages.

Red herring. That has absolutely zilch to do with abortion. But to answer your question, unlike some of you, I don't believe everything I'm spoonfed by the controlled mainstream media.

It is you who is denying reality.

The decision as to whether to become a parent, to give your life over to a child, is the most personal decision a family makes.

This is not YOUR decision. This is not your child, your family or your faith. You are not making any commitment to this woman or her child. It is NONE of your business.

When you are the one who is pregnant, you cherish your ability to have the finances and the family around you to support you and your family to raise this child.

Republican policies opposing maternity leave or job security for pregnant women, or even health care for working families, drives your abortion numbers.

Don’t whine about saving babies if you’re condemning them to a life of poverty and deprivations, and then brand them “takers” when they fail to raise themselves out of the poverty they we’re born into.

You didn't acknowledge anything I said, and everything you brought up is a strawman.

Why would I give credence to your lies and fallacies by responding to them? The moment you start talking about the right to life of a fetus, you utterly ignore any rights the mother has to life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. You strip her of any right at all except to gestate that potential, until the pregnancy either terminates in a spontaneous abortion, or the child reaches term and is delivered.

Your pictures are lovely but meaningless. Your little seahorse doesn’t have rights. Period. End of story. The woman gets to choose her life and that of her family. That’s the right to privacy.

I can’t believe I have to explain that to you.

Tell that to the people who got charged with double homicide when they killed a pregnant woman. Tell that to the doctor who acknowledges that he is treating two patients, not one, when he treats a pregnant woman. You are as indoctrinated and blind as it gets. You act as if your word constitutes absolute truth. Sorry, but it doesn't. And thank God for that. The way you speak about a pre-born baby ("seahorse") shows the soullessness and ugliness and arrogance of your position.

 

[buttercup]

Keep telling yourself that. Euphemisms don't change the reality, that it's a baby just as precious as a newborn baby. To claim that the pre-born magically becomes a child once he's on the other side of the birth canal is laughable. In other words, location determines humanity? It sounds like you'd be perfectly OK with butchering a pre-born baby who is one day away from delivery… Just because he happens to be on the other side of the birth canal.

Nope, just the right to life, like every other human being.

In other words: "If you think rape is wrong, don't rape anyone, but I'm going to rape." "If you think murder is wrong, don't murder anyone, but I'm going to murder." Etc. etc. There is no "right" to take an innocent human life.

Red herring. That has absolutely zilch to do with abortion. But to answer your question, unlike some of you, I don't believe everything I'm spoonfed by the controlled mainstream media.

How precious is a fetus? I mean, give me a quantity here.

We have 7 billion people on this planet and growing. We're able to keep people alive for a long time with modern medicine.

Children are not as precious as they were a few hundred years ago when 75% were dying before the age of 5 in some places like London.

Actually, birth rates have gone down in many places… because in this day and age, people aren't having as many kids as they used to. Especially in Europe, but in other places too. And not to get off topic, but I believe the "overpopulation" fearmongering is just that. It's a lie.

As for how precious the pre-born is, I believe that all human beings are inherently valuable. As I said to dragon lady, it makes no sense to think that the pre-born goes from being disposable garbage one second, to a precious valuable baby, the next second, once he is on the other side of the birth canal. To not see how silly that is is to be willfully blind.

Birth rates are going down in SOME places, and in the world birth rates are too high.

It's still a problem.

Oh, you believe that overpopulation isn't a problem. Right.

You know, when it comes to other animals, we're rather quick to start hunting the fuckers down when their population numbers get too high. When humans get too high, you don't give a damn.

Ah, you BELIEVE all human beings are precious. It's just a belief. That's all there is.

Did you support the Iraq War? Do you support executions?

What's the difference between a dog's life and a human's life? Why is a dog's life less precious?

So you're saying that you don't believe that human life is valuable? I hope you realize that that mentality is what leads to things like violence, murder, horrible human rights abuses, genocide. In fact, that communist-like mentality is what led to hundreds of millions of deaths in the 20th century alone.

No I did not support the Iraq war, and if you're talking about capital punishment, I have mixed feelings about it, but I am more on the side of being against it, mainly because I don't trust the government...and I don't think it's wise to give that sort of power to a corrupt government.

But anyway, this is getting off topic. What is your point?

No, I'm not saying human life isn't valuable.

I'm saying we don't need to act like if we lose one life, humanity might struggle, as happened in the past.

We don't have massive child mortality rates. So what's the point in having loads of children?

I'm saying that in the modern era we can offer people far more than subsistence living. We can make choices about having children so the children grow up with a good standard of living.

So, if you are only going to have one child, is it better to have that child when you're ready to have that child, or is it better to have that child when you're not ready?

No one is saying that people who are not ready to raise kids should be parents. There are tons of couples who cannot conceive, and try for years to get pregnant… and spend thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant. Adoption is a beautiful thing....not an ugly, selfish thing like abortion.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

How precious is a fetus? I mean, give me a quantity here.

We have 7 billion people on this planet and growing. We're able to keep people alive for a long time with modern medicine.

Children are not as precious as they were a few hundred years ago when 75% were dying before the age of 5 in some places like London.

Actually, birth rates have gone down in many places… because in this day and age, people aren't having as many kids as they used to. Especially in Europe, but in other places too. And not to get off topic, but I believe the "overpopulation" fearmongering is just that. It's a lie.

As for how precious the pre-born is, I believe that all human beings are inherently valuable. As I said to dragon lady, it makes no sense to think that the pre-born goes from being disposable garbage one second, to a precious valuable baby, the next second, once he is on the other side of the birth canal. To not see how silly that is is to be willfully blind.

Birth rates are going down in SOME places, and in the world birth rates are too high.

It's still a problem.

Oh, you believe that overpopulation isn't a problem. Right.

You know, when it comes to other animals, we're rather quick to start hunting the fuckers down when their population numbers get too high. When humans get too high, you don't give a damn.

Ah, you BELIEVE all human beings are precious. It's just a belief. That's all there is.

Did you support the Iraq War? Do you support executions?

What's the difference between a dog's life and a human's life? Why is a dog's life less precious?

So you're saying that you don't believe that human life is valuable? I hope you realize that that mentality is what leads to things like violence, murder, horrible human rights abuses, genocide. In fact, that communist-like mentality is what led to hundreds of millions of deaths in the 20th century alone.

No I did not support the Iraq war, and if you're talking about capital punishment, I have mixed feelings about it, but I am more on the side of being against it, mainly because I don't trust the government...and I don't think it's wise to give that sort of power to a corrupt government.

But anyway, this is getting off topic. What is your point?

No, I'm not saying human life isn't valuable.

I'm saying we don't need to act like if we lose one life, humanity might struggle, as happened in the past.

We don't have massive child mortality rates. So what's the point in having loads of children?

I'm saying that in the modern era we can offer people far more than subsistence living. We can make choices about having children so the children grow up with a good standard of living.

So, if you are only going to have one child, is it better to have that child when you're ready to have that child, or is it better to have that child when you're not ready?

No one is saying that people who are not ready to raise kids should be parents. There are tons of couples who cannot conceive, and try for years to get pregnant… and spend thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant. Adoption is a beautiful thing....not an ugly, selfish thing like abortion.

If you feel that way then you should never have one. But not everyone feels that way, and many are in a different circumstance. Everyone should be allowed to chose, even Christians.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How precious is a fetus? I mean, give me a quantity here.

We have 7 billion people on this planet and growing. We're able to keep people alive for a long time with modern medicine.

Children are not as precious as they were a few hundred years ago when 75% were dying before the age of 5 in some places like London.

Actually, birth rates have gone down in many places… because in this day and age, people aren't having as many kids as they used to. Especially in Europe, but in other places too. And not to get off topic, but I believe the "overpopulation" fearmongering is just that. It's a lie.

As for how precious the pre-born is, I believe that all human beings are inherently valuable. As I said to dragon lady, it makes no sense to think that the pre-born goes from being disposable garbage one second, to a precious valuable baby, the next second, once he is on the other side of the birth canal. To not see how silly that is is to be willfully blind.

Birth rates are going down in SOME places, and in the world birth rates are too high.

It's still a problem.

Oh, you believe that overpopulation isn't a problem. Right.

You know, when it comes to other animals, we're rather quick to start hunting the fuckers down when their population numbers get too high. When humans get too high, you don't give a damn.

Ah, you BELIEVE all human beings are precious. It's just a belief. That's all there is.

Did you support the Iraq War? Do you support executions?

What's the difference between a dog's life and a human's life? Why is a dog's life less precious?

So you're saying that you don't believe that human life is valuable? I hope you realize that that mentality is what leads to things like violence, murder, horrible human rights abuses, genocide. In fact, that communist-like mentality is what led to hundreds of millions of deaths in the 20th century alone.

No I did not support the Iraq war, and if you're talking about capital punishment, I have mixed feelings about it, but I am more on the side of being against it, mainly because I don't trust the government...and I don't think it's wise to give that sort of power to a corrupt government.

But anyway, this is getting off topic. What is your point?

No, I'm not saying human life isn't valuable.

I'm saying we don't need to act like if we lose one life, humanity might struggle, as happened in the past.

We don't have massive child mortality rates. So what's the point in having loads of children?

I'm saying that in the modern era we can offer people far more than subsistence living. We can make choices about having children so the children grow up with a good standard of living.

So, if you are only going to have one child, is it better to have that child when you're ready to have that child, or is it better to have that child when you're not ready?

No one is saying that people who are not ready to raise kids should be parents. There are tons of couples who cannot conceive, and try for years to get pregnant… and spend thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant. Adoption is a beautiful thing....not an ugly, selfish thing like abortion.

Adoption for the parents might be a beautiful thing, for some kids it's a nightmare.

Even with abortions there are going to be TOO MANY KIDS who need to be adopted.

 

[beagle9]

You don't get what I'm saying, do you? Let me try this a different way. Are all laws correct, yes or no?

You dont get what I am saying do you? Let me put it to you piecemeal.

Is abortion legal?

Is murder a legal term?

Can you be charged with murder for having an abortion?

I asked you first. Don't let this be a repeat of last time, where you didn't have the courage to answer direct questions. That is really weak and lame. Just answer it.

I dont care what you asked me. Dont let this be a repeat of last time where you were unable to prove abortions were illegal.

You're not fooling anyone, you won't answer those questions because in both cases they would show your BS. So you say you don't care. If you don't have the cajones and integrity to have an actual debate, then I'm not going to waste my time. I'm sure there are sincere and honest people here who are willing to have an actual debate, instead of playing games like a 14-year-old.

I dont have to fool anyone. You have to prove abortions are against the law. If you cant then they cannot be called murder. There is zero need to debate the topic you want to get into and frankly it has jack shit to do with the point I made.

You are the one here battling to save RoevWade, and it's all because regardless of it being legal right now in accordance to man's folly in life, you know darn well that it is bad law thus constituting your fear as a leftist that it could be corrected now. Why else would you be here carrying on so, and better yet making a complete idiot of yourself ?? You've been backed into a corner so bad at times, that you've said some crazy things already. You best quit while behind, because you just keep sinking lower and lower and lower.

 

[beagle9]

Actually, birth rates have gone down in many places… because in this day and age, people aren't having as many kids as they used to. Especially in Europe, but in other places too. And not to get off topic, but I believe the "overpopulation" fearmongering is just that. It's a lie.

As for how precious the pre-born is, I believe that all human beings are inherently valuable. As I said to dragon lady, it makes no sense to think that the pre-born goes from being disposable garbage one second, to a precious valuable baby, the next second, once he is on the other side of the birth canal. To not see how silly that is is to be willfully blind.

Birth rates are going down in SOME places, and in the world birth rates are too high.

It's still a problem.

Oh, you believe that overpopulation isn't a problem. Right.

You know, when it comes to other animals, we're rather quick to start hunting the fuckers down when their population numbers get too high. When humans get too high, you don't give a damn.

Ah, you BELIEVE all human beings are precious. It's just a belief. That's all there is.

Did you support the Iraq War? Do you support executions?

What's the difference between a dog's life and a human's life? Why is a dog's life less precious?

So you're saying that you don't believe that human life is valuable? I hope you realize that that mentality is what leads to things like violence, murder, horrible human rights abuses, genocide. In fact, that communist-like mentality is what led to hundreds of millions of deaths in the 20th century alone.

No I did not support the Iraq war, and if you're talking about capital punishment, I have mixed feelings about it, but I am more on the side of being against it, mainly because I don't trust the government...and I don't think it's wise to give that sort of power to a corrupt government.

But anyway, this is getting off topic. What is your point?

No, I'm not saying human life isn't valuable.

I'm saying we don't need to act like if we lose one life, humanity might struggle, as happened in the past.

We don't have massive child mortality rates. So what's the point in having loads of children?

I'm saying that in the modern era we can offer people far more than subsistence living. We can make choices about having children so the children grow up with a good standard of living.

So, if you are only going to have one child, is it better to have that child when you're ready to have that child, or is it better to have that child when you're not ready?

No one is saying that people who are not ready to raise kids should be parents. There are tons of couples who cannot conceive, and try for years to get pregnant… and spend thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant. Adoption is a beautiful thing....not an ugly, selfish thing like abortion.

Adoption for the parents might be a beautiful thing, for some kids it's a nightmare.

Even with abortions there are going to be TOO MANY KIDS who need to be adopted.

And how is this solved ?? Using abortion to solve it ?? That has been the folly of man (taking the easy way out), instead of working hard to restore the decency and restraints people once practiced in our society.. We chose to double down on sinking further and further down into the quicksands of time, and it has gotten so bad that it appears to those being raised today that this is all just normal societal thinking anymore. Good grief.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Birth rates are going down in SOME places, and in the world birth rates are too high.

It's still a problem.

Oh, you believe that overpopulation isn't a problem. Right.

You know, when it comes to other animals, we're rather quick to start hunting the fuckers down when their population numbers get too high. When humans get too high, you don't give a damn.

Ah, you BELIEVE all human beings are precious. It's just a belief. That's all there is.

Did you support the Iraq War? Do you support executions?

What's the difference between a dog's life and a human's life? Why is a dog's life less precious?

So you're saying that you don't believe that human life is valuable? I hope you realize that that mentality is what leads to things like violence, murder, horrible human rights abuses, genocide. In fact, that communist-like mentality is what led to hundreds of millions of deaths in the 20th century alone.

No I did not support the Iraq war, and if you're talking about capital punishment, I have mixed feelings about it, but I am more on the side of being against it, mainly because I don't trust the government...and I don't think it's wise to give that sort of power to a corrupt government.

But anyway, this is getting off topic. What is your point?

No, I'm not saying human life isn't valuable.

I'm saying we don't need to act like if we lose one life, humanity might struggle, as happened in the past.

We don't have massive child mortality rates. So what's the point in having loads of children?

I'm saying that in the modern era we can offer people far more than subsistence living. We can make choices about having children so the children grow up with a good standard of living.

So, if you are only going to have one child, is it better to have that child when you're ready to have that child, or is it better to have that child when you're not ready?

No one is saying that people who are not ready to raise kids should be parents. There are tons of couples who cannot conceive, and try for years to get pregnant… and spend thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant. Adoption is a beautiful thing....not an ugly, selfish thing like abortion.

Adoption for the parents might be a beautiful thing, for some kids it's a nightmare.

Even with abortions there are going to be TOO MANY KIDS who need to be adopted.

And how is this solved ?? Using abortion to solve it ?? That has been the folly of man (taking the easy way out), instead of working hard to restore the decency and restraints people once practiced in our society.. We chose to double down on sinking further and further down into the quicksands of time, and it has gotten so bad that it appears to those being raised today that this is all just normal societal thinking anymore. Good grief.

So, your suggesting is we try to do something impossible.

Right.

So, when is the world going vegetarian?

 

[beagle9]

Your point got squashed by the reality that laws do not constitute actual truth. But I guess you think all laws are correct. Which is pretty funny. So slavery was moral and just because at one time it was legal? Allrighty then.

The actual truth is that abortion is not illegal and therefore you cant call it murder. Nothing else you say can change that.

I'm actually laughing here, at the foolishness. So slavery was moral and just, then. Because the law said so. Got it.

People that feel uneasy laugh a lot. Abortion is not murder because murder is against the law.

Yes, murder is against the law, and since the pre-born are human beings (which is an undeniable scientific fact) killing those human beings is murder, regardless of what the current law says. If you're going to continue with the asinine point that it's not murder because it's legal, then I'm going to keep repeating that by your logic, slavery was just and moral hundreds of years ago, when it was legal.

Good. You just said murder was against the law. Is abortion against the law? If the answer is no then abortion cannot be murder.

There is man's law, and there is God's law. We as a nation (ever since it's founding), have held God's law above man's law. The things we are seeing in all of these man made rules or laws are fairly young today, and they are fragil because they are in many cases bad rules or bad laws that have no basis in reality. Man can bring about all the misery upon his society that he wants, but it will never make him right in doing so. After all the misery and death he brings when going against God, you would think that he would learn somehow, but he doesn't. So death and misery it will be until the day of judgement comes, and then what ?

 

[beagle9]

The fetus is NOT a child. It is a potential child. It doesn’t become a child until it draws its own breathe.

Keep telling yourself that. Euphemisms don't change the reality, that it's a baby just as precious as a newborn baby. To claim that the pre-born magically becomes a child once he's on the other side of the birth canal is laughable. In other words, location determines humanity? It sounds like you'd be perfectly OK with butchering a pre-born baby who is one day away from delivery… Just because he happens to be on the other side of the birth canal.

You give more rights to that potential human than to the human being who will be bound to him or her for her own life. You strip her right to make a decision to bind her life to another..

Nope, just the right to life, like every other human being.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t strip others of their rights and beliefs. The moment you force you me religious beliefs on others, you do to them what you accuse others of doing to you - denying you freedom of religion.

In other words: "If you think rape is wrong, don't rape anyone, but I'm going to rape." "If you think murder is wrong, don't murder anyone, but I'm going to murder." Etc. etc. There is no "right" to take an innocent human life.

If every life is so sacred, why aren’t you screaming at the top of your lungs about children being taken from their parents and locked in cages.

Red herring. That has absolutely zilch to do with abortion. But to answer your question, unlike some of you, I don't believe everything I'm spoonfed by the controlled mainstream media.

It is you who is denying reality.

The decision as to whether to become a parent, to give your life over to a child, is the most personal decision a family makes.

This is not YOUR decision. This is not your child, your family or your faith. You are not making any commitment to this woman or her child. It is NONE of your business.

When you are the one who is pregnant, you cherish your ability to have the finances and the family around you to support you and your family to raise this child.

Republican policies opposing maternity leave or job security for pregnant women, or even health care for working families, drives your abortion numbers.

Don’t whine about saving babies if you’re condemning them to a life of poverty and deprivations, and then brand them “takers” when they fail to raise themselves out of the poverty they we’re born into.

Where does the responsibility of the couple begin ?? It begins before the woman becomes pregnant, but that is the part that is so much fun that to hell with the consequences until the woman is faced with her dilemma of either killing the life form inside of her or keeping it. If people were trained up during their raising to be better more responsible people, and society were on board with this again as a whole (promoting responsible living standards), then it would be amazing the turn around we could see in America again. So who and why are their those here for whom are against this again ?? Why promote a culture of death and destruction instead of a society that embraces life and good ??

 

[Cecilie1200]

Abortion isn't going anywhere.. everybody needs to let it go.

So because evil will always exist in the world, we should just accept it and not fight it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, the life in that womb should be protected just like any other human being is protected. Yes, the woman's body is her own, but once that child begins to form in her body, then she becomes the protector of that human being within her body. If she fails to protect the life she is responsible for, then she has done wrong.

You are just WRONG. It is the woman’s life that is affected. Not just during the time that baby is in her womb, but for all of her life. The baby isn’t capable of becoming a life without her. But the life growing within her will profoundly and irrevocably change the woman and her future life

Having a baby changes a woman’s life. It also changes her body. There’s no going back from it, and these changes occur whether she raises the baby or not. This is why the decision to have the child should always rest with the woman and her doctor.

The moment you give rights to the unborn child, you strip a woman to the right to make the most personal decision a human has to make: will you bind yourself to this person for the rest of your life? More than marriage, motherhood binds a woman to her children.

Some women aren’t in a position to do that. They don’t have the resources. At no time should the state have any say in the process.

Sorry, but yours is an irrational argument steeped deeply into ignoring the childs right to life after conception, and all because a woman somehow is able to look into a crystal ball according to your outrageous opinion, and know what her future holds with the child at her side once born ?? The irony is that you want millions of immigrants to come waltzing in here, because they don't abort their children, and instead they breed them to work, be strong, endure, and believe in God along with these things mentioned with all their heart. So why isn't this good enough for the American women ??

Because American women have been conditioned to believe that if anything hinders their life including an unborn baby, then just discard it like a Burger King wrapper, and just walk away. Meanwhile back at the border.... Pathetic.

I’m not ignoring the zygote’s rights because the zygote has no rights at conception. That’s a total fallacy. Hence all opinions proceeding from this idea that a zygote has rights have no basis in fact or in law.

This is dishonest, since the pre-born is only a zygote for up to four days after conception, and surgical abortions do not take place that early. A woman who wasn't planning a pregnancy doesn't even know she's pregnant until she's missed at least one period (sometimes two) and by the time she goes to the doctor and the abortion takes place, there is a beating heart, little arms, legs, brain waves, etc.

And ALL human beings have the right to life. You are discriminating, plain and simple. Based on age and location.

The fetus is NOT a child. It is a potential child. It doesn’t become a child until it draws its own breathe.

You give more rights to that potential human than to the human being who will be bound to him or her for her own life. You strip her right to make a decision to bind her life to another.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t strip others of their rights and beliefs. The moment you force you me religious beliefs on others, you do to them what you accuse others of doing to you - denying you freedom of religion.

If every life is so sacred, why aren’t you screaming at the top of your lungs about children being taken from their parents and locked in cages.

"Stop talking science and logic! This is about my FEEELZ!"

Could you, perhaps, show me anywhere in anything with a scientific basis that the concept of "potential human" appears? Anywhere? If biology class had a section on the stage of human development called "potential", I must have been sick that day.

 

[Dragonlady]

How precious is a fetus? I mean, give me a quantity here.

We have 7 billion people on this planet and growing. We're able to keep people alive for a long time with modern medicine.

Children are not as precious as they were a few hundred years ago when 75% were dying before the age of 5 in some places like London.

Actually, birth rates have gone down in many places… because in this day and age, people aren't having as many kids as they used to. Especially in Europe, but in other places too. And not to get off topic, but I believe the "overpopulation" fearmongering is just that. It's a lie.

As for how precious the pre-born is, I believe that all human beings are inherently valuable. As I said to dragon lady, it makes no sense to think that the pre-born goes from being disposable garbage one second, to a precious valuable baby, the next second, once he is on the other side of the birth canal. To not see how silly that is is to be willfully blind.

Birth rates are going down in SOME places, and in the world birth rates are too high.

It's still a problem.

Oh, you believe that overpopulation isn't a problem. Right.

You know, when it comes to other animals, we're rather quick to start hunting the fuckers down when their population numbers get too high. When humans get too high, you don't give a damn.

Ah, you BELIEVE all human beings are precious. It's just a belief. That's all there is.

Did you support the Iraq War? Do you support executions?

What's the difference between a dog's life and a human's life? Why is a dog's life less precious?

So you're saying that you don't believe that human life is valuable? I hope you realize that that mentality is what leads to things like violence, murder, horrible human rights abuses, genocide. In fact, that communist-like mentality is what led to hundreds of millions of deaths in the 20th century alone.

No I did not support the Iraq war, and if you're talking about capital punishment, I have mixed feelings about it, but I am more on the side of being against it, mainly because I don't trust the government...and I don't think it's wise to give that sort of power to a corrupt government.

But anyway, this is getting off topic. What is your point?

No, I'm not saying human life isn't valuable.

I'm saying we don't need to act like if we lose one life, humanity might struggle, as happened in the past.

We don't have massive child mortality rates. So what's the point in having loads of children?

I'm saying that in the modern era we can offer people far more than subsistence living. We can make choices about having children so the children grow up with a good standard of living.

So, if you are only going to have one child, is it better to have that child when you're ready to have that child, or is it better to have that child when you're not ready?

No one is saying that people who are not ready to raise kids should be parents. There are tons of couples who cannot conceive, and try for years to get pregnant… and spend thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant. Adoption is a beautiful thing....not an ugly, selfish thing like abortion.

Women shouldn’t be forced to have babies to service the needs of infertile couples. It also perpetuates the myth that the only women obtaining abortions are young, single, white women looking to move on with their lives.

The reality is that the majority of women getting abortions are married or in a committed relationship, and they already have one or more children. And they’re poor.

The percentages of blacks and Hispanics obtaining abortions are much higher than their percentages of population, but which correlate to their poverty rates.

Does adoption address the basic workers’ rights issues and lack of job protections for pregnant workers? These are the drivers of abortion.

You talk about saving lives and yet your only solution is to ban abortion. This has never worked in any society where it’s been tried. Never.

What works is to address the root reasons for women to decide to terminate their pregnancies - and those reasons are economic.

 

[Asclepias]

You dont get what I am saying do you? Let me put it to you piecemeal.

Is abortion legal?

Is murder a legal term?

Can you be charged with murder for having an abortion?

I asked you first. Don't let this be a repeat of last time, where you didn't have the courage to answer direct questions. That is really weak and lame. Just answer it.

I dont care what you asked me. Dont let this be a repeat of last time where you were unable to prove abortions were illegal.

You're not fooling anyone, you won't answer those questions because in both cases they would show your BS. So you say you don't care. If you don't have the cajones and integrity to have an actual debate, then I'm not going to waste my time. I'm sure there are sincere and honest people here who are willing to have an actual debate, instead of playing games like a 14-year-old.

I dont have to fool anyone. You have to prove abortions are against the law. If you cant then they cannot be called murder. There is zero need to debate the topic you want to get into and frankly it has jack shit to do with the point I made.

You are the one here battling to save RoevWade, and it's all because regardless of it being legal right now in accordance to man's folly in life, you know darn well that it is bad law thus constituting your fear as a leftist that it could be corrected now. Why else would you be here carrying on so, and better yet making a complete idiot of yourself ?? You've been backed into a corner so bad at times, that you've said some crazy things already. You best quit while behind, because you just keep sinking lower and lower and lower.

I do back Roe Vs Wade until something comes along thats even stronger that says government has no right deciding what a woman does with her own body. The reason I am "carrying on" with you and the other retard is because you two cant seem to understand your native language. You can talk all the bullshit you want to but abortion isnt murder specifically because its not illegal. You tried your hardest to circumvent this fact by comparing it to killing the enslaved but you struck out on that as well. At this point you probably should stop embarrassing yourself. You and your goofy opinions constitute an argument thats falling apart faster than you can put it back together.

 

[Asclepias]

The actual truth is that abortion is not illegal and therefore you cant call it murder. Nothing else you say can change that.

I'm actually laughing here, at the foolishness. So slavery was moral and just, then. Because the law said so. Got it.

People that feel uneasy laugh a lot. Abortion is not murder because murder is against the law.

Yes, murder is against the law, and since the pre-born are human beings (which is an undeniable scientific fact) killing those human beings is murder, regardless of what the current law says. If you're going to continue with the asinine point that it's not murder because it's legal, then I'm going to keep repeating that by your logic, slavery was just and moral hundreds of years ago, when it was legal.

Good. You just said murder was against the law. Is abortion against the law? If the answer is no then abortion cannot be murder.

There is man's law, and there is God's law. We as a nation (ever since it's founding), have held God's law above man's law.

Youre full of shit. Were in gods law does it tell you to slaughter natives and enslave others? You forgot one major thing. Not everyone believes in your religion. Some people can see it does nothing but make you batshit crazy. You ever think for a second why the slaves were denied freedom? How about denied control over their family? How about control over who rapes their wife or girl child? Why not allowed to read? But your religion? They allowed the enslaved to have your religion. All it did was make them wait for their reward after death. Miss me with that holier than thou bullshit. The US was a cess pool of hypocrites then and it still is.