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Calling out folks who seek to hide behind a religion based on tolerance to foment intolerance is not hateful, it's pointing out hypocrisy and heresy. By the way, I am a Christian. A Christian who believes what Jesus taught us, to love one another and to cast the first stone only if we are without sin.This coming from an atheist? What would you know about it? Who are you to judge when someone is following His 'edicts' or not? You're actually worse than any Christian passing judgment that I've seen. Outside of one or two posters on here, you atheists are far worse at being judgmental than anyone I've ever seen. You've certainly opened my eyes Nosmo, I thought you were a nice person from conversations we've had in the coffee shop, had I known how hateful you really are outside of there, I wouldn't have wasted my time talking to you in there. Part of the reason why I don't frequent in there anymore, people are just two faced, friendly and nice in there and hateful out here. Sad.
So, since you're a christian, you believe that Jesus would want you to participate in something that is sinful? Or is your stance that gay marriage isn't sinful?
Vendors providing services are not participants. Jesus dealt with sinners every day. Some of Jesus' best friends were sinners. Jesus saved sinners. So, yes I believe that Jesus would not have the problem so called Christians have with homosexuals.Calling out folks who seek to hide behind a religion based on tolerance to foment intolerance is not hateful, it's pointing out hypocrisy and heresy. By the way, I am a Christian. A Christian who believes what Jesus taught us, to love one another and to cast the first stone only if we are without sin.
So, since you're a christian, you believe that Jesus would want you to participate in something that is sinful? Or is your stance that gay marriage isn't sinful?
Let me ask you a question. What's the difference between bigoted vendors refusing services to a homosexual and Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church?
That's so sweet of you! Slave holders backed up their cruelty with doctrine. Old South Jim Crow bigots backed up their cruelty with doctrine. The Scriptures can be interpreted by villains to justify cruelty. The precedent has been set. If you seek cover for hatred amid the Scriptures, know this, you are not the first, nor regrettably the last hater to seek solace in a book dedicated to love.A couple of points you either over looked or failed to recognize:
1) I am a Christian
2) Jesus preached that we should not judge others, that we should do unto others as we would have others do unto us and , those without sin should cast the first stone.
Those are the basic tenets of the faith. The so-called Christians who are seeking legal cover to foment division, hatred, fear and suspicion of others are blatantly ignoring those basic tenets.
1) I can judge you and I can back it up with doctrine.
2) I don't believe you.
I'm curious. Just exactly what did Jesus say about gays? I've read the Bible three times, cover to cover, including the Old Testament, which is, as far as I am concerned, strictly Jewish doctrine, and I never read anything that Jesus said about homosexuality.
Vendors providing services are not participants. Jesus dealt with sinners every day. Some of Jesus' best friends were sinners. Jesus saved sinners. So, yes I believe that Jesus would not have the problem so called Christians have with homosexuals.
Let me ask you a question. What's the difference between bigoted vendors refusing services to a homosexual and Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church?
Phelps doesn't bake worth a crap......
The vendors are to provide services, not judgments. Could Woolworth's be Scripturally justified when they refused service to African Americans? Can Fred Phelps be doctrinally justified when he protests funerals with signs that say "God Hates Fags"? Are wedding vendors required to approve of each and every couple they serve? Is it ethically right to deny services normally provided to heterosexual couples, no matter how much a vendor might personally disapprove of their marriage, and still deny THE EXACT SAME SERVICES to homosexual couples? Is it right to justify that disapproval through the same Scriptural rationalization as Fred Phelps does? Would you see the actions of Phelps as Christian virtues? What is the difference between the judgments Phelps makes and his rationalization as the judgments and rationalizations of vendors refusing gays?Vendors providing services are not participants. Jesus dealt with sinners every day. Some of Jesus' best friends were sinners. Jesus saved sinners. So, yes I believe that Jesus would not have the problem so called Christians have with homosexuals.
Let me ask you a question. What's the difference between bigoted vendors refusing services to a homosexual and Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church?
What I bolded is your opinion, someone else may feel as though they are a participant and may not want to take part in it in any way at all, and that should be their choice. You never answered my question, is a gay marriage sinful according to what Jesus taught? If Jesus thought homosexual behavior was sinful, He would forgive them, i.e. 'save' them and tell them to turn away from their sin, not embrace it. If you're a christian, you should understand that concept. So for people who believe homosexual behavior is a sin, they're not going to be in favor of promoting it or encouraging it. So, is homosexual behavior a sin in your opinion or not?
Your question is already grounded in your own bigotry by you using the term 'bigot' in your question. The party in question only refused the service of a gay wedding cake, not service in general from what I understand. They should be able to refuse a cake to celebrate a divorce if they believe that is a sin and don't want to participate in any way in the celebration. Your problem is that you can only look at this issue thru one lense, and it has clouded your judgment. You apply the label of bigotry towards anyone standing on what they see as their religious principles instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt that the only issue they have is not wanting to take what they see as a path away from God. Did it ever occur to you that they truly care about their faith and following what they see as God's will for their lives instead of it being about hate of other people? Take your blinders off.
sure it is chuckles!Arizona. The new Alabama!Cheer up, guys. Arizona, having been called down by the feds for an unconstitutional illegal immigration law, found to be discriminating against Hispanics in Sheriff Joe's backyard, and trying to pass 'religious freedom" legislation to discriminate against gays, has moved on, and now has passed a bill to remove core values from the public school system. These were endorsed by bi-partisan governors, but as far as AZ is concerned, it is a fed dictatorship law. So, now, when AZ kids want to go to Harvard, they will not have been prepared to the same level as kids from other states.
Shine on, Arizona!
The new age of politics is to malign Christians.
another "since you're an atheist how could you know anything about god or Christianity" ploy!The new age of Christianity is to ignore the edicts of Jesus Christ.The new age of politics is to malign Christians.
This coming from an atheist? What would you know about it? Who are you to judge when someone is following His 'edicts' or not? You're actually worse than any Christian passing judgment that I've seen. Outside of one or two posters on here, you atheists are far worse at being judgmental than anyone I've ever seen. You've certainly opened my eyes Nosmo, I thought you were a nice person from conversations we've had in the coffee shop, had I known how hateful you really are outside of there, I wouldn't have wasted my time talking to you in there. Part of the reason why I don't frequent in there anymore, people are just two faced, friendly and nice in there and hateful out here. Sad.
I'm curious. Just exactly what did Jesus say about gays? I've read the Bible three times, cover to cover, including the Old Testament, which is, as far as I am concerned, strictly Jewish doctrine, and I never read anything that Jesus said about homosexuality.
Moving the goal posts? I never said anything about attendance at the wedding. We on this thread are considering the vendors supplying services for the wedding. In your world, does the baker show up at the church or bring a gift to the reception? Because in the wide world out here where people both think and act with fairness, the baker drops off the cake and goes to the next delivery.Calling out folks who seek to hide behind a religion based on tolerance to foment intolerance is not hateful, it's pointing out hypocrisy and heresy. By the way, I am a Christian. A Christian who believes what Jesus taught us, to love one another and to cast the first stone only if we are without sin.This coming from an atheist? What would you know about it? Who are you to judge when someone is following His 'edicts' or not? You're actually worse than any Christian passing judgment that I've seen. Outside of one or two posters on here, you atheists are far worse at being judgmental than anyone I've ever seen. You've certainly opened my eyes Nosmo, I thought you were a nice person from conversations we've had in the coffee shop, had I known how hateful you really are outside of there, I wouldn't have wasted my time talking to you in there. Part of the reason why I don't frequent in there anymore, people are just two faced, friendly and nice in there and hateful out here. Sad.
Judging people who do not want to attend same sex weddings because you consider yourself to be enlightened and modern is hateful and bigoted. It is also the direct opposite of what the Bible teaches, which makes you wrong, no matter how you spin it.
Also, unlike you, I actually picked a Scripture that is impossible to spin in a way that justifies any other interpretation other that you being wrong.
What is the difference between the judgments Phelps makes and his rationalization as the judgments and rationalizations of vendors refusing gays?
What is the difference between the judgments Phelps makes and his rationalization as the judgments and rationalizations of vendors refusing gays?
nobody is asking Phelps to do something he doesn't want to do......
After you do that you can choose to either come back to this thread and admit you were wrong, or never come back and to pretend that you have a right to force your interpretation on other people.
I'm curious. Just exactly what did Jesus say about gays? I've read the Bible three times, cover to cover, including the Old Testament, which is, as far as I am concerned, strictly Jewish doctrine, and I never read anything that Jesus said about homosexuality.
Matthew 19 KJ21 - And it came to pass that when Jesus had - Bible Gateway
That's pretty funny coming from someone who lied about me on this very thread -- then didn't have the nads to own up to the fact she got me mixed up with someone else.Lies is all they have, they lie about practically everything.
That is really funny considering he did admit he was wrong.
A couple of points you either over looked or failed to recognize:Being an atheist you probably didn't notice that not a single Christian is currently in this thread arguing for the idea anyone can tell anyone else what their religion is, not even the one that started this thread. The reason for that is pretty simple, I proved everyone that tried to actually use the Bible to force others to comply with their opinion is wrong. That leaves you no argument on those grounds, even if you are so fucking stupid you can't figure it out.
1) I am a Christian
2) Jesus preached that we should not judge others, that we should do unto others as we would have others do unto us and , those without sin should cast the first stone.
Those are the basic tenets of the faith. The so-called Christians who are seeking legal cover to foment division, hatred, fear and suspicion of others are blatantly ignoring those basic tenets.
And that's why I posted: So if you consider yourself a Christian, why did you judge me as? I suppose that's the action of a so-called Christian in the new age of Christianity. What a pity. Christians used to be nice, respectful people. Now they are more like the Taliban than Christians.so fucking stupid
If you are actually a Christian I suggest you go read 1 Corinthians 8 and then explain to me how you have the authority to force other Christians to do something they see as a sin. After you do that you can choose to either come back to this thread and admit you were wrong, or never come back and to pretend that you have a right to force your interpretation on other people.
In other words, I am not the one judging people, you are. I am actually applying the principles of the Bible consistently, allowing both non Christians, and Christians, to live thier lives as they choose.
Luke Chapter 6 verse 31.1 Corinthians 8
King James Version (KJV)
8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
What is the difference between the judgments Phelps makes and his rationalization as the judgments and rationalizations of vendors refusing gays?
nobody is asking Phelps to do something he doesn't want to do......
What's the difference between Woolworth's in the south of 1960 and vendors refusing service to homosexuals? What's the difference between a Mom and Pop grocer in Alabama 1961 refusing service and citing scripture as an excuse?
another "since you're an atheist how could you know anything about god or Christianity" ploy!The new age of Christianity is to ignore the edicts of Jesus Christ.
This coming from an atheist? What would you know about it? Who are you to judge when someone is following His 'edicts' or not? You're actually worse than any Christian passing judgment that I've seen. Outside of one or two posters on here, you atheists are far worse at being judgmental than anyone I've ever seen. You've certainly opened my eyes Nosmo, I thought you were a nice person from conversations we've had in the coffee shop, had I known how hateful you really are outside of there, I wouldn't have wasted my time talking to you in there. Part of the reason why I don't frequent in there anymore, people are just two faced, friendly and nice in there and hateful out here. Sad.
best answer:
Calling out folks who seek to hide behind a religion based on tolerance to foment intolerance is not hateful, it's pointing out hypocrisy and heresy. By the way, I am a Christian. A Christian who believes what Jesus taught us, to love one another and to cast the first stone only if we are without sin.
So, since you're a christian, you believe that Jesus would want you to participate in something that is sinful? Or is your stance that gay marriage isn't sinful?
Even if she does think it is acceptable for a Christian to attend a same sex wedding, she is still wrong for telling other Christians who believe differently to do it. In fact, if a Christian who think it is a sin sees her doing it,and does it himself, she is responsible for causing that Christian into sin. That makes her 100/5 wrong.
Moving the goal posts? I never said anything about attendance at the wedding. We on this thread are considering the vendors supplying services for the wedding. In your world, does the baker show up at the church or bring a gift to the reception? Because in the wide world out here where people both think and act with fairness, the baker drops off the cake and goes to the next delivery.Calling out folks who seek to hide behind a religion based on tolerance to foment intolerance is not hateful, it's pointing out hypocrisy and heresy. By the way, I am a Christian. A Christian who believes what Jesus taught us, to love one another and to cast the first stone only if we are without sin.
Judging people who do not want to attend same sex weddings because you consider yourself to be enlightened and modern is hateful and bigoted. It is also the direct opposite of what the Bible teaches, which makes you wrong, no matter how you spin it.
Also, unlike you, I actually picked a Scripture that is impossible to spin in a way that justifies any other interpretation other that you being wrong.
Jesus did not shun prostitutes. He did not shun lepers. Jesus loved the poor, the feeble minded, the outcast.Moving the goal posts? I never said anything about attendance at the wedding. We on this thread are considering the vendors supplying services for the wedding. In your world, does the baker show up at the church or bring a gift to the reception? Because in the wide world out here where people both think and act with fairness, the baker drops off the cake and goes to the next delivery.Judging people who do not want to attend same sex weddings because you consider yourself to be enlightened and modern is hateful and bigoted. It is also the direct opposite of what the Bible teaches, which makes you wrong, no matter how you spin it.
Also, unlike you, I actually picked a Scripture that is impossible to spin in a way that justifies any other interpretation other that you being wrong.
Yet you ignored my post and refuse to answer my questions, why is that?
