Zone1 What's the nuttiest allegedly Christian religion on the Planet?

[Meriweather]

Nope, I see religion for what it is... attempts by the useless to gain power.

I am betting you see other professions in the same light.

 

[Meriweather]

Uh, there's life after the womb.

When you die. Nothing.

You did not know that when you were in the womb...
When you die...this seems like the life in shadows, while that, pure reality.

You will be okay, Joe--as is your Mom.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Or maybe, just maybe, there isn't a God, and religion just reflects our fear of death.

Psalms 53:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

 

[Paleman]

What about the Klan? ... you don't think they're totally nuts? ...

Why just Christians ... Zen Bhuddist are a danger to themselves and others ... them folks is mad crazy loony toons bozo ...

Talk about nuts. Show me any proof whatsoever that a god, any god, actually exists. It can't be done because there is none, just a centuries-old ferry tale, made up and peddled to the gullible masses. Personally, I would prefer that there was a supreme being wandering the universe as it would give me a long-shot chance at entering the pearly gates. Please, show me some truth and save my soul.

 

[lg325]

Talk about nuts. Show me any proof whatsoever that a god, any god, actually exists. It can't be done because there is none, just a centuries-old ferry tale, made up and peddled to the gullible masses. Personally, I would prefer that there was a supreme being wandering the universe as it would give me a long-shot chance at entering the pearly gates. Please, show me some truth and save my soul.

My advice to folks has always been, do not close your mind to the idea of God. Keep searching and asking questions and no matter where that leads you do not stop searching and as with me you will not find God , God will find you.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

JWs don't believe in Hell. Well, what did Jesus die to save us from, then?

ETERNAL DEATH.
You are either going to LIVE for the rest of eternity (on this earth), or you're gonna be ASHES under the feet of the righteous.

Nearly all of modern Christianity teaches more paganism than truth -- your organization as much as any

 

[Paleman]

My advice to folks has always been, do not close your mind to the idea of God. Keep searching and asking questions and no matter where that leads you do not stop searching and as with me you will not find God , God will find you.

Maybe, could be, or there might be a god, that doesn't work for me. Just like the example of the disciple Thomas. show me the wound. If your god is such a shining example of purity and fairness, why does he or she deny me that opportunity? I was not born with blind faith so what are my options?

 

[Likkmee]

Maybe, could be, or there might be a god, that doesn't work for me. Just like the example of the disciple Thomas. show me the wound. If your god is such a shining example of purity and fairness, why does he or she deny me that opportunity? I was not born with blind faith so what are my options?

Never too late

 

[onefour1]

Keeping black people as second class members - What those who make this argument fail to realize is that the same argument can be made against God and Christ regarding the Gentiles. When Jesus came to minister on the earth, He was not sent to minister unto the Gentiles nor to any that were not members of the House of Israel. Case in point:

Matthew 15:21-28
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Here Jesus clearly tells us that he was only sent to preach his gospel unto the house of Israel. Those who were to receive baptism and become members of his church at that time were limited to only the House of Israel. Jesus, however, did have mercy on the woman of Canaan and healed her daughter. One could easily point the finger at Jesus and say he was keeping the Gentiles and Canaanites as second class people (not even members). It wasn't until after Jesus had finished his ministry and his apostles carried on the work of the ministry that the gospel was then allowed to go unto the Gentiles and only then were they able to gain baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost (see Acts 10). From the days of Abraham until the days of the apostles the Gentiles and other non Israelites were not allowed to be accepted into God's church. Only from the days of the apostles were they allowed to receive the gospel and become members.

In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, black have always been allowed to join the church and enjoy the baptism for the remission of sins and receive the Holy Ghost. However, they were not to be allowed to receive the priesthood until a later time according to our scriptures. In1976, the Prophet Spencer W. Kimball received revelation that the blacks were then to also receive the priesthood of God. I think with God somethings were a timing issue as to when certain peoples were to be allowed to share in certain privileges of the gospel. However it was prophesied that at some point all the children of mankind would be able to receive all the blessings that God has to offer that were needed to gain eternal life.

Abraham 2:8-11
8 My name is Jehovah, and I know the end from the beginning; therefore my hand shall be over thee.
9 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and Priesthood unto all nations;
10 And I will bless them through thy name; for as many as receive this Gospel shall be called after thy name, and shall be accounted thy seed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their father;
11 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.

 

[onefour1]

Their prophets marrying teenage girls - This accusation primarily refers to Joseph Smith taking Helen Mar Kimball as one of his wives. Helen was 14 at the time she was sealed to the prophet Joseph Smith and there is no evidence that she ever consummated the marriage by having sexual relations with Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith was murdered only 13 months after the marriage. The evidence seems to suggest that the marriage was allowed but was never consummated. Because of anti-mormon literature, this topic has been researched and here is a link to some of that research: Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Plural Wives/Helen Mar Kimball . Back in the early 1800's if a woman was 21 she was allowed to marry without parental permission. However, girls as young as 12 or 14 years of age could marry if given permisson by their parents.

From Marriageable age - Wikipedia
"The minimum age requirements of 12 and 14 were eventually written into English civil law. By default, these provisions became the minimum marriage ages in colonial America.[13] Marriages occurred several years earlier, on average, in colonial America than in Europe, and much higher proportions of the population eventually married. Community-based studies suggest an average age at marriage of about 20 years old for women in the early colonial period and about 26 years old for men.[30] In the late 19th century and throughout the 20th century, U.S. states began to slowly raise the minimum legal age at which individuals were allowed to marry. Age restrictions, as in most developed countries, have been revised upward so that they are now between 15 and 21 years of age.[13]"

So under law, the marriage of Joseph Smith to Helen Mar Kimball was not illegal and she did have permission from her parents. In fact, It was her father who was pushing and arranging the marriage of his daughter to Joseph Smith.

 

[ReinyDays]

Talk about nuts. Show me any proof whatsoever that a god, any god, actually exists. It can't be done because there is none, just a centuries-old ferry tale, made up and peddled to the gullible masses. Personally, I would prefer that there was a supreme being wandering the universe as it would give me a long-shot chance at entering the pearly gates. Please, show me some truth and save my soul.

I am my dog's god ... and my dog is god to his fleas ... and I believe there's microbes in the flea's gut that think the fleas are gods ... that's main stream bhuddism ... we're calling Zen Bhuddism nuts in comparison ...

A man doesn't need faith in his wife that those are his kids ... we have DNA testing today ... now no one has to be faithful at all ... such a better world don't you think? ... or is that Brave New World ...

 

[Paleman]

I am my dog's god ... and my dog is god to his fleas ... and I believe there's microbes in the flea's gut that think the fleas are gods ... that's main stream bhuddism ... we're calling Zen Bhuddism nuts in comparison ...

A man doesn't need faith in his wife that those are his kids ... we have DNA testing today ... now no one has to be faithful at all ... such a better world don't you think? ... or is that Brave New World ...

What does all that gibberish have to do with god or no god?

 

[ReinyDays]

What does all that gibberish have to do with god or no god?

I don't know how to dumb it down any more than I have already ... does your mommy know you're posting on the internet? ... if you don't want to poke fun at other people's silly habits, please don't be a pus-bucket and ruin it for everyone else ...

Plenty of room on the Science and Technology forum for being a pus-bucket ...

 

[onefour1]

Mormonism.

Their leader, Joseph Smith, looking into a hat at a magic rock and saw revelations that somehow, some way, God didn't get around to letting us know until Joseph Smith.

In the Bible, there is mention of the Urim and Thummim. These were precious stones that were to be kept in the breastplate that was to be worn by the high priest of Aaron. We believe these stones are what are known as seer stones and allowed the possessor of such to receive communications from God through them. When Joseph Smith uncovered the golden plates there was more buried with them than just the plates.

Joseph Smith History 1:33-35
33 He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.
34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.

Joseph used these seer stones prepared by God to translate the golden plates along with other artifacts.

Then Joseph got to creep on a bunch of teenage girls for a long time

You use the word bunch. Can you name them? He did marry Helen Mar Kimball who was 14 shortly before he was murdered in a jail cell along with his brother. See my post above regarding their prophets marrying teenage girls. If you know of others, name them.

before attempting to "translate" the Book of Abraham, which he said was, yeah. lost writings of Abraham. This was in the mid-1800s when there was no internet and Egyptian scholars were light on the ground in mid-America. Well, when the hieroglyphics were finally translated accurately, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Abraham. It was a typical Egyptian funeral document.

Though other ancient documents were likely part of the ancient papyri that Joseph Smith received they are by no means the entire papyri. For a good study of the church's response to critics like yourself, see the following link: Book of Abraham - FAIR . The hieroglyphics you speak of were only fragments of what Joseph Smith possessed and you are gravely misinformed on this subject.

Mormons will tell you that this is okay; you have to interpret the book "spiritually" or some such. Uh huh. In other Biblical contexts it would mean Joe Smith is entirely discredited.

False

This is not to mention the fact that they believe Satan and Jesus are spirit-brothers (really), and that every good Mormon will go on to inhabit their own planet (really) populated with their wives and children. Oh, and that God is also married. Basically just the fevered dreams of Joseph Smith, failed prophet.

We believe that in the premortal life before we all came to this earth, we existed in the presence of God and were his spirit children. The firstborn of all the spirit children of God our Father in Heaven was Jehovah, aka Jesus Christ. The rest of us were his brothers and sisters and this included Lucifer. Lucifer rebelled against the Father along with 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven. God then cast Lucifer and his follows out of heaven and changed Lucifer's name to Satan and Perdition. So yes, Lucifer was a son of the morning at one time but rebelled against the Father and His firstborn Son Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 14:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

We do believe that God wishes us to become like himself.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

We, as his children, can grow up into becoming what our Heavenly parents are. We believe marriage can be eternal and that God himself does have a wife. That spirit children are born in the heavens and go through a mortal life as part of their progression. Prove to me from the Bible that these things are not true. It has been revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith that marriage can be eternal and that we can become like our heavenly parents.

Mormons are generally good-hearted people who have been terribly snowballed. I will now be attacked by Mormons for being hateful. But I am not hateful. I do, however, tell the truth in all I say above.

Prove that it is a snowballing! Prove it!

 

[JoeB131]

I am betting you see other professions in the same light

Meh, not so much. Most other professions are straight up.

For instance, I write resumes. If you come to me, you WILL get a resume. I don't take your money and promise you a resume and never deliver.
On the other hand, ministers promise you salvation and a neat sunshine and puppy afterlife... and they couldn't prove it is real on a bet.

You did not know that when you were in the womb...
When you die...this seems like the life in shadows, while that, pure reality.

Actually, in the womb, I was a glob of tissue... I wasn't a person until I was born.

You will be okay, Joe--as is your Mom.

Nope. She died when her family still needed her...

 

[JoeB131]

In 1830 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints organized by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Because we used the Book of Mormon, many non members of the church have called us The Mormons. In response to the above two posts, I would like to present evidence to show that our beliefs are not so far out as the above two posters would like to make everyone think.

Nope, Mormonism is a cult. It's Scientology plus 150 years.

Golden Plates - Joseph Smith received revelation that there were golden plates buried in the Hill Cumorah in upstate NY. He was shown where they were buried by a ministering angel and recovered these golden plates which had writings upon them of some of the inhabitants of ancient America. Upon uncovering the plates, Joseph Smith was instructed to translate the writings on the plates which became what is known today as the Book of Mormon. It is historic fact that metal plates were used for record keeping.

Except where are these plates? How come there is NO ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE of the events or people mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Now, as much as I rip on the bible, there's plenty of independence evidence of SOME of the events in the bible. Not a one for the BoM.

THE TESTIMONY OF THREE WITNESSES

I can skip this one. Cult members don't have critical thinking skills.

So obviously this teaching was not made up by Mormons. After Jesus died but before his resurrection he went and preached unto the spirits who have died and set up his gospel among the dead. He did this so that those who never had the chance to hear the gospel here on earth would have a chance to hear and receive it. However, they could not be baptized as spirits and the doctrine of baptism for the dead was instituted. Baptisms for the dead were performed long ago to allow those who receive the gospel in the world of spirits to receive the saving ordinance.

So then there's no reason for the Mormons to dip the dead. That's entirely God's call.

Plural Marriage - Have you ever wondered, if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, why did He allow Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and many others in the Old Testament to practice plural marriage? Surely when Abraham practiced it he was not condemned for his practice but was considered to be faithful. In fact Abraham was considered the Father of the Faithful. So why would God allow such a practice among his ancient prophets and condemn others. This was something that the Prophet Joseph Smith among others wondered and so Joseph Smith inquired of the Lord for an answer and received the following revelation:

Nope, I don't wonder about that at all, since the people who wrote about the founders were centuries removed, and no doubt tried to reconcile oral traditions with what they currently believed.

The problem with Mormon Plural Marriage was that it frequently involved Smith, Young and other cult leaders marrying girls as young as 14.

 

[onefour1]

Nope, Mormonism is a cult. It's Scientology plus 150 years.



Except where are these plates? How come there is NO ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE of the events or people mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Now, as much as I rip on the bible, there's plenty of independence evidence of SOME of the events in the bible. Not a one for the BoM.



I can skip this one. Cult members don't have critical thinking skills.



So then there's no reason for the Mormons to dip the dead. That's entirely God's call.



Nope, I don't wonder about that at all, since the people who wrote about the founders were centuries removed, and no doubt tried to reconcile oral traditions with what they currently believed.

The problem with Mormon Plural Marriage was that it frequently involved Smith, Young and other cult leaders marrying girls as young as 14.

Here are a few links to help you find some evidences for the Book of Mormon

Archaeological Evidence and the Book of Mormon

Book of Mormon Evidence

Book of Mormon Evidence

 

[Paleman]

I don't know how to dumb it down any more than I have already ... does your mommy know you're posting on the internet? ... if you don't want to poke fun at other people's silly habits, please don't be a pus-bucket and ruin it for everyone else ...

Plenty of room on the Science and Technology forum for being a pus-bucket ...

Does your Mommy know you talk like that?

 

[SweetSue92]

In the Bible, there is mention of the Urim and Thummim. These were precious stones that were to be kept in the breastplate that was to be worn by the high priest of Aaron. We believe these stones are what are known as seer stones and allowed the possessor of such to receive communications from God through them. When Joseph Smith uncovered the golden plates there was more buried with them than just the plates.

Joseph Smith History 1:33-35
33 He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.
34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.

Joseph used these seer stones prepared by God to translate the golden plates along with other artifacts.

You use the word bunch. Can you name them? He did marry Helen Mar Kimball who was 14 shortly before he was murdered in a jail cell along with his brother. See my post above regarding their prophets marrying teenage girls. If you know of others, name them.

Though other ancient documents were likely part of the ancient papyri that Joseph Smith received they are by no means the entire papyri. For a good study of the church's response to critics like yourself, see the following link: Book of Abraham - FAIR . The hieroglyphics you speak of were only fragments of what Joseph Smith possessed and you are gravely misinformed on this subject.

False

We believe that in the premortal life before we all came to this earth, we existed in the presence of God and were his spirit children. The firstborn of all the spirit children of God our Father in Heaven was Jehovah, aka Jesus Christ. The rest of us were his brothers and sisters and this included Lucifer. Lucifer rebelled against the Father along with 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven. God then cast Lucifer and his follows out of heaven and changed Lucifer's name to Satan and Perdition. So yes, Lucifer was a son of the morning at one time but rebelled against the Father and His firstborn Son Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 14:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

We do believe that God wishes us to become like himself.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

We, as his children, can grow up into becoming what our Heavenly parents are. We believe marriage can be eternal and that God himself does have a wife. That spirit children are born in the heavens and go through a mortal life as part of their progression. Prove to me from the Bible that these things are not true. It has been revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith that marriage can be eternal and that we can become like our heavenly parents.

Prove that it is a snowballing! Prove it!

Sadly--and I mean that--most all of this is a result of being snowballed. God being married? Having a wife?

Who made that up? Did Joe make that up?

 

[JoeB131]

Here are a few links to help you find some evidences for the Book of Mormon

Um, Mormon sources don't count. Do you have anything from a non-Mormon source.

The book of Mormon talks about horses, elephants, wheat, coinage, great towered cities, chariots, and the list can go on and on.

Or let's put it another way. The Nephite/Lamanite civilization lasted for about 1000 years.

The Roman Empire lasted about 1000 years.

With the Romans, we have dozens of Roman buildings, monuments, roads, coinage. We have references to them in all sorts of literary sources, not just the bible. We have remnants of Roman language (Latin) in modern languages today (Spanish, French, Italians, among others)

And for the Nephites? Nothing. Not one archeological site. Not one Native American language that appears to have derived from Hebrew. Not one coin with a Nephite ruler's face stamped on it.

Now the accounts from the BoM DO make sense if you put them in the context of their time. In the mid 19th century, people were digging up the remains of the Mound Building Civilizations in North America, and America, being racist as it was at the time, concluded their now way the Native Americans they were in the process of exterminating could have build such wonders. (In fact, the builders were wiped out by plagues brought by Europeans before white people got that far into the country). And as a result, you had a lot of theories about who could have been the REAL builders, and they HAD to be white people. So they theorized Vikings, Romans, and of course, Hebrews.

As far as the tales of elephants and horses? Largely drawn from archeological finds of mastodons and Dinohippus in North America without the context that they went extinct tens of thousand of years ago.

Heck, Joseph Smith wasn't even the first guy to come up with that goofy theory. You can thank the works of Rev. Ethan Smith (no relation) for that in "A View of the Hebrews", which Joseph Smith largely cribbed.