Zone1 What's the nuttiest allegedly Christian religion on the Planet?

[onefour1]

Well, no, and I'm going to try to make this simple for you.

You either have to accept Joseph Smith's veracity, or you don't, because Smith couldn't produce the plates and show them to anyone outside his cult. (Yes, Mormonism is a cult. Deal with it.)

That is the same argument as asking the Jews to produce the tablets of the 10 commandments or the ark of the covenant or they are a cult. All Judaism and all Christianity who accept the Bible believe in these things. So where are they? Truth is that God took the plates. It can be argued that he also took the ark of the covenant.

Revelation 11:19
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

So then you have to look at Smith's veracity on other claims.

He claimed the Book of Abraham was translated from Papyri. Except those scrolls were found at the Chicago Historical Society, and they turned out to be Ptomeleic era funerary scrolls.

Egyptian Papyri and the Book of Abraham: Some Questions and Answers​

He claimed that the Kinderhook Tablets were an account from the time of Noah. Except it was determined his neighbors were pranking them and made them contemporaneously.

Joseph Smith and the Kinderhook plates​

Then you have all his predictions and prophecies that didn't come true. My personal favorite was his claim that there were people living on the moon who wore Quaker Dress.

Did Joseph Smith and Brigham Young Teach That People Live on The Moon and The Sun?​

We could talk about the missing pages of the translation, hidden by Martin Harris' wife. Oddly, Smith couldn't just read that part of the manuscript again, so he read another part of the plates that told the same story.

Lost Manuscript of the Book of Mormon​

We could talk about his other scams, such as being convicted of fraud in New York for Gold Divining, or the Kirtland Bank fraud in Ohio, well, the list can go on.

According to the Book, "Sustaining the Law: Joseph Smith's Legal Encounters", Joseph Smith was never convicted of any of the crimes you mention. However he did have a scuffle with man who was reaching for a rock to harm him and he did strike the man as mentioned in this link: Was Joseph Smith Ever Convicted of a Crime?. To me that appears to be a case of self defense.

Now, Occam's razor tells us that the simplest answer is usually the right one. The simplest answer here is Joseph Smith was a too-bit con man who blended racist theories with bible-fan fic, and made up a religion.

The laws of the United States of America hold that a man is innocent until proven guilty or found guilty by a jury of their peers.

 

[JoeB131]

That is the same argument as asking the Jews to produce the tablets of the 10 commandments or the ark of the covenant or they are a cult. All Judaism and all Christianity who accept the Bible believe in these things. So where are they? Truth is that God took the plates. It can be argued that he also took the ark of the covenant.

We aren't talking about artifacts that MIGHT have existed thousands of years ago. We are talking about something that he claimed to have had 170 years ago, but never showed them to anyone outside of his cult and translated them through his hat. (That must have been one big hat!)

Ignoring all your LDS Propaganda links, because honestly, they are laughable.

According to the Book, "Sustaining the Law: Joseph Smith's Legal Encounters", Joseph Smith was never convicted of any of the crimes you mention. However he did have a scuffle with man who was reaching for a rock to harm him and he did strike the man as mentioned in this link: Was Joseph Smith Ever Convicted of a Crime?. To me that appears to be a case of self defense.

Oh, get real. Smith was the subject of 30 legal actions in his 35 years of life. These charges included fraud, fornications, conspiracy to assassinate public officials, inciting a riot. The man was a crime wave!

Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The laws of the United States of America hold that a man is innocent until proven guilty or found guilty by a jury of their peers.

The problem was Smith kept fleeing the jurisdiction because he could be brought to trial. before the wonderful people of Carthage Illinois just decided to shoot the bastard!

 

[ding]

What's the nuttiest allegedly Christian religion on the Planet?

Please give at least one paragraph as to WHY you chose as u did

Here's mine:

JWs don't believe in Hell. Well, what did Jesus die to save us from, then? Or what else would He have gone through such torture for? Please explain. The Mormons believe spirits are flying around everywhere in the universe, waiting for people to copulate (in marriage... don't know about fornication??) so as to bring those spirits into a body.. So yeh.. I don't know where they get this (although I can speculate).

The Episcopalians (founded by Henry VIII, mass murderer) are now allowing actively homosexual men to be ministers. Yikes! Whatever happened to homosexuality being a serious (mortal) sin? Or Whatever happened to Go and sin no more?

I’d say Mormonism and JW’s but they aren’t really Christian.

 

[onefour1]

We aren't talking about artifacts that MIGHT have existed thousands of years ago. We are talking about something that he claimed to have had 170 years ago, but never showed them to anyone outside of his cult and translated them through his hat. (That must have been one big hat!)

No. You are the one who claimed there was absolutely ZERO evidence. Those artifacts show that Hebrews did exist in what is now the USA thousands of years ago. Nice dodge.

Ignoring all your LDS Propaganda links, because honestly, they are laughable.

Because you can't handle the truth.

Oh, get real. Smith was the subject of 30 legal actions in his 35 years of life. These charges included fraud, fornications, conspiracy to assassinate public officials, inciting a riot. The man was a crime wave!

Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Charges are not convictions. Smith, like Trump and Dems who try their hardest to bring him down, had the entire anti-mormon community after him but they could not convict him on charges of fraud, etc. Nice try anyway.

The problem was Smith kept fleeing the jurisdiction because he could be brought to trial. before the wonderful people of Carthage Illinois just decided to shoot the bastard!

You would attempt to flee too if you knew they would do what they did to him at Carthage. But he did stand trial and did not flee all the charges as you suppose. He was not convicted on any of the charges you brought up.

Yes the violent, uncontrollable, illegal mob murdered him and his brother while under incarceration in the Carthage jail. You sound like you would have been glad to pull the trigger yourself. Are you a member of antifa or Black Lives Matter? No fair trials from you, I see. You are definitely a classic anti-mormon whose whining complaints have been answered a million times over and over. You just don't want to know the truth. Ignoring your posts from now on since you don't read my responses anyway.

 

[Frankenstein]

If we seem nutty to you
just remember one thing
The mighty oak was once a nut like me

It is so easy to find reasons for disbelief, that when there is something right in front of us in which to believe, our conditioning has us dismissing belief.

Some can't believe in Catholicism because of this belief;
Cannot believe in the LDS faith because of that belief;
And let's not get started on the Baptists, Buddhists and Baha'i

No doubt, along the way, every religion has gotten things wrong. I don't believe this matters to God. As long as we hold belief in Him, He is the light that finds us wherever we are and grows us nuts upwards towards Him for He has destined us to become mighty oaks.

I am a Baptist what is your beef with us?

 

[JoeB131]

No. You are the one who claimed there was absolutely ZERO evidence. Those artifacts show that Hebrews did exist in what is now the USA thousands of years ago. Nice dodge

Again, they are fakes. Come on, the "History Channel"? That stopped being about history a long time ago.

Charges are not convictions. Smith, like Trump and Dems who try their hardest to bring him down, had the entire anti-mormon community after him but they could not convict him on charges of fraud, etc. Nice try anyway.

The reason he didn't get convicted is he kept fleeing the jurisdiction before trial.

You would attempt to flee too if you knew they would do what they did to him at Carthage. But he did stand trial and did not flee all the charges as you suppose. He was not convicted on any of the charges you brought up.

The people in Carthage murdered him because they heard his militia was gathering in the woods to spring him.

Yes the violent, uncontrollable, illegal mob murdered him and his brother while under incarceration in the Carthage jail. You sound like you would have been glad to pull the trigger yourself. Are you a member of antifa or Black Lives Matter? No fair trials from you, I see. You are definitely a classic anti-mormon whose whining complaints have been answered a million times over and over. You just don't want to know the truth. Ignoring your posts from now on since you don't read my responses anyway.

Hey, the Mormon Cult was molesting kids and running around the region with guns! They were kind of the Branch Davidians of their day.

Do you know the difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh? Original and Extra-Crispy!

 

[notmyfault2020]

I’d say Mormonism and JW’s but they aren’t really Christian.

well, they mention Christ's name once in awhile..

But as we see in viewing their beliefs.. they get things absolutely wrong.. whether intentionally or not.. who knows? The JWs only came along in the 1800s, I believe, but ditto the Mormons

They cannot trace their "church" back to the Beginning, which you'd think would be a very important point

 

[onefour1]

well, they mention Christ's name once in awhile..

But as we see in viewing their beliefs.. they get things absolutely wrong.. whether intentionally or not.. who knows? The JWs only came along in the 1800s, I believe, but ditto the Mormons

They cannot trace their "church" back to the Beginning, which you'd think would be a very important point

we believe that the Church fell into a state of apostasy after killing the apostles and needed a restoration.

Amos 8:11-12
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

Acts 3:20- 21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

 

[onefour1]

 

[notmyfault2020]

we believe that the Church fell into a state of apostasy after killing the apostles and needed a restoration.

Amos 8:11-12
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

Acts 3:20- 21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

A person can "make the Bible" say just about anything, support just about any cause or movement or new religion

big deal

The Catholic Church is the only one that goes back to the very beginning. Again, extant writings from as far back as AD 107 show it was called Catholic (Greek for Universal). There was everything Catholic way back then: The Eucharist, the Mass.. confession to a priest, infant baptism.

SEE: Early Church Fathers

 

[notmyfault2020]

If you are trying to convert me, I can 10000% assure you that you are WASTING your time.

I know Church history. And I would never choose to follow a mere human as opposed to Christ Himself.

 

[onefour1]

A person can "make the Bible" say just about anything, support just about any cause or movement or new religion

big deal

The Catholic Church is the only one that goes back to the very beginning. Again, extant writings from as far back as AD 107 show it was called Catholic (Greek for Universal). There was everything Catholic way back then: The Eucharist, the Mass.. confession to a priest, infant baptism.

SEE: Early Church Fathers

Actually the Church of Jesus Christ fell into a state of apostasy shortly after the murder of the apostles and from then many of the pure teachings of Jesus were changed and adulterated until the restitution of all things started with the restoration of the church through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

The Great Apostasy

 

[onefour1]

If you are trying to convert me, I can 10000% assure you that you are WASTING your time.

I know Church history. And I would never choose to follow a mere human as opposed to Christ Himself.

The post wasn't directed specifically to you personally. I put it there for all to watch.

 

[Leo123]

Does Scientology count?

 

[notmyfault2020]

The post wasn't directed specifically to you personally. I put it there for all to watch.

I venture to say that I speak for many others here.. not interested in a weird religion founded by a weird dude as opposed to Christ Himself..

 

[notmyfault2020]

Does Scientology count?

yeh, that's a weird one, but just knowing what I know about it which is not too much.. it may be more reasonable than the JWs or the LDS which is not saying much, i know

 

[onefour1]

I venture to say that I speak for many others here.. not interested in a weird religion founded by a weird dude as opposed to Christ Himself..

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was restored through the revelations of Jesus Christ himself.

 

[notmyfault2020]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was restored through the revelations of Jesus Christ himself.

right. and he said to have more than one wife

sounds like Jesus..

barf

 

[onefour1]

right. and he said to have more than one wife

sounds like Jesus..

barf

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, etc were found faithful while having many wives. Why, in your estimation do you think they were found faithful at the same time they had more than one wife? If we were to have a restitution of all thinks spoken of by all the holy prophets since the world began, would we not see a restitution of this way of life given to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon? You should try looking at the history of the Catholic Church and many of the things they did in the past if you truly want to barf.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Actually the Church of Jesus Christ fell into a state of apostasy shortly after the murder of the apostles and from then many of the pure teachings of Jesus were changed and adulterated until the restitution of all things started with the restoration of the church through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

The Great Apostasy

That's what you have been told.

The Church apostatized at Vatican II. But thatdoes not mean the Catholic Church was done and over with, something Jesus said would not happen.. "the gates of Hell will not prevail against it" He said..

According to you, the gates of Hell won as soon as Jesus ascended into Heaven..

Wow.. but that's just you, human being. I follow Christ who is God