emilynghiem
Constitutionalist / Universalist
- Jan 21, 2010
- 23,669
- 4,181
I was discussing with a friend online, whether the lack of logic in arguments was caused by
* miscommunication
* people being stupid, dumb or ignorant
Or what I offered as causing "emotional" biases that skew logic and prevent it from being perfectly objective:
* fear of opposing groups or outside influences imposing adverse ideology or beliefs that violate or threaten others
* unforgiveness of other people or groups who have caused harm, damage or threats in the past
* core beliefs that people cannot help and cannot change, and refuse to let others or govt force them to change
^ beliefs can include having KNOWLEDGE of a solution (or a problem) that the other person doesn't have proof of, causing difference in perceptions and beliefs in better solutions that "aren't proven yet" and are "faith based".
What have YOU found to be the most common cause of BIASES that you have run into which you THOUGHT could be corrected, but weren't able to:
* fear of change, losing control to others, fear of conflict, confrontation or oppression
* unforgiven or unresolved issues, conflicts, or injustice/wrongs from the past that cause rejection and blame
of other groups and obstruct logical communication and problem solving between such groups blaming each other
* core beliefs in conflict that are not going to change, where people disagree how one or the other is being pushed or protected through govt at the expense of the other
How do YOU deal with each one?
What have YOU found works or doesn't work, and what do YOU suggest?
[For me, I find the MORE I open up to accept and work with the biases and beliefs
of others, the MORE they open up and try to respect them same,
even though we remain in disagreement on beliefs we cannot change.
Once trust and relations are built on mutual respect,
this influence grows and allows the same to be
fostered in other relations, collectively influencing more people
to work together in more productive inclusive ways]
============================================
Here is an excerpt of the points I made:
'I don't think it's because people are "dumb"
just because EMOTIONS cloud judgment.
For example, people who get EMOTIONAL about abortion
cannot always separate the concept of "prochoice" from "proabortion."
People who get EMOTIONAL about gun violence
think reducing regulations on gun owners MEANS "promoting violence to take place."
Just because we support a military for DEFENSE
does NOT mean WAR; if it is used correctly we NEVER go to war
because people respect law and order and KNOW not to take aggression and cause
the DEFENSE to go to WAR.
So it is EMOTIONS and FEAR
(also not trusting or Forgiving other groups of people)
that cause BIASES.
And these skew logic to be "imperfect"
where you can see it is not perfectly "logical."
To be fair, I find that people are EQUAL.
Every time YOU see something illogical or imperfect
because someone else has a BIAS,
they see YOU or I have an Emotional Bias also!
I do not treat Drug laws with the same [Approach]
that I treat other laws on guns or abortion,
because I know that Drug Addiction can be healed
by spiritual healing. So I do not addresses that issue the
same way as other people do. [Until this is proven by science,
I am going to have a BIAS that other people don't have, and
can't be forced to accept solutions without proof, while they
continue to impose their biases without proof since they don't
have faith that any other way is possible!]
So I have a BIAS toward resolving this issue by researching
and implementing Spiritual Healing instead of only focusing
on Marijuana and its issues.
Because I believe in Consensus on laws [ie not imposing any policy that
violates the beliefs and consent of others affected], I treat Political
Beliefs equally as each person's Religion. So that makes
me different when I talk about these things, and other
people complain I have a Bias toward Sympathizing
with either the right or left who are either for or against gay marriage
[or spiritual healing, etc etc. in trying to include both sides' beliefs equally].
I sympathize with both, so that makes me different and Biased
in ways that other people think is a threat to their Bias!
So a lot of it is
* Emotional which is part of people's natural response
and not a bad thing. it is NATURAL
* Core Beliefs, which people will defend and will not
allow other people or Govt to force them to change
* Fear, Unforgiveness, or bad experiences suffering harm,
damage or threats of force by other groups which cause
them to reject and refuse to trust and work with someone
that represents that group
These cause biases.
Criticizing people for their biases does not help,
but makes it WORSE by making them even more DEFENSIVE!
The only way I see to work with biases
is to identify them, accept where people are coming from,
forgive our differences instead of fearing them,
and try to work out a solution GIVEN these biases and beliefs
instead of criticizing and attacking each other for having them!'
===============
[Added Note: The good news is that the
process gets easier as we go.
The MORE we open up to accept and work with the biases and beliefs
of others, the MORE they open up and respect the same for us.
Once trust and relations are built on mutual respect,
this influence grows and allows the same to be
fostered in other relations, collectively influencing more people
to work together in more productive inclusive ways]
* miscommunication
* people being stupid, dumb or ignorant
Or what I offered as causing "emotional" biases that skew logic and prevent it from being perfectly objective:
* fear of opposing groups or outside influences imposing adverse ideology or beliefs that violate or threaten others
* unforgiveness of other people or groups who have caused harm, damage or threats in the past
* core beliefs that people cannot help and cannot change, and refuse to let others or govt force them to change
^ beliefs can include having KNOWLEDGE of a solution (or a problem) that the other person doesn't have proof of, causing difference in perceptions and beliefs in better solutions that "aren't proven yet" and are "faith based".
What have YOU found to be the most common cause of BIASES that you have run into which you THOUGHT could be corrected, but weren't able to:
* fear of change, losing control to others, fear of conflict, confrontation or oppression
* unforgiven or unresolved issues, conflicts, or injustice/wrongs from the past that cause rejection and blame
of other groups and obstruct logical communication and problem solving between such groups blaming each other
* core beliefs in conflict that are not going to change, where people disagree how one or the other is being pushed or protected through govt at the expense of the other
How do YOU deal with each one?
What have YOU found works or doesn't work, and what do YOU suggest?
[For me, I find the MORE I open up to accept and work with the biases and beliefs
of others, the MORE they open up and try to respect them same,
even though we remain in disagreement on beliefs we cannot change.
Once trust and relations are built on mutual respect,
this influence grows and allows the same to be
fostered in other relations, collectively influencing more people
to work together in more productive inclusive ways]
============================================
Here is an excerpt of the points I made:
'I don't think it's because people are "dumb"
just because EMOTIONS cloud judgment.
For example, people who get EMOTIONAL about abortion
cannot always separate the concept of "prochoice" from "proabortion."
People who get EMOTIONAL about gun violence
think reducing regulations on gun owners MEANS "promoting violence to take place."
Just because we support a military for DEFENSE
does NOT mean WAR; if it is used correctly we NEVER go to war
because people respect law and order and KNOW not to take aggression and cause
the DEFENSE to go to WAR.
So it is EMOTIONS and FEAR
(also not trusting or Forgiving other groups of people)
that cause BIASES.
And these skew logic to be "imperfect"
where you can see it is not perfectly "logical."
To be fair, I find that people are EQUAL.
Every time YOU see something illogical or imperfect
because someone else has a BIAS,
they see YOU or I have an Emotional Bias also!
I do not treat Drug laws with the same [Approach]
that I treat other laws on guns or abortion,
because I know that Drug Addiction can be healed
by spiritual healing. So I do not addresses that issue the
same way as other people do. [Until this is proven by science,
I am going to have a BIAS that other people don't have, and
can't be forced to accept solutions without proof, while they
continue to impose their biases without proof since they don't
have faith that any other way is possible!]
So I have a BIAS toward resolving this issue by researching
and implementing Spiritual Healing instead of only focusing
on Marijuana and its issues.
Because I believe in Consensus on laws [ie not imposing any policy that
violates the beliefs and consent of others affected], I treat Political
Beliefs equally as each person's Religion. So that makes
me different when I talk about these things, and other
people complain I have a Bias toward Sympathizing
with either the right or left who are either for or against gay marriage
[or spiritual healing, etc etc. in trying to include both sides' beliefs equally].
I sympathize with both, so that makes me different and Biased
in ways that other people think is a threat to their Bias!
So a lot of it is
* Emotional which is part of people's natural response
and not a bad thing. it is NATURAL
* Core Beliefs, which people will defend and will not
allow other people or Govt to force them to change
* Fear, Unforgiveness, or bad experiences suffering harm,
damage or threats of force by other groups which cause
them to reject and refuse to trust and work with someone
that represents that group
These cause biases.
Criticizing people for their biases does not help,
but makes it WORSE by making them even more DEFENSIVE!
The only way I see to work with biases
is to identify them, accept where people are coming from,
forgive our differences instead of fearing them,
and try to work out a solution GIVEN these biases and beliefs
instead of criticizing and attacking each other for having them!'
===============
[Added Note: The good news is that the
process gets easier as we go.
The MORE we open up to accept and work with the biases and beliefs
of others, the MORE they open up and respect the same for us.
Once trust and relations are built on mutual respect,
this influence grows and allows the same to be
fostered in other relations, collectively influencing more people
to work together in more productive inclusive ways]
Last edited:
