Zone1 When SCOTUS Rules Against Favoritism Based on Race, the Impact will Go Beyond College Admissions

[Dogmaphobe]

When they have nothing, they default to a meaningless accusation of racism.

While being the ones who base everything on race, themselves.

I actually had one person in this forum tell me that any desire to create a color-blind society is racist.

Orwell must be rolling in his grave.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

At one point you supported colleges automatically excepting the top percent from every highschool. Now you don’t?

She has never said that colleges should automatically except anybody.

She might have mentioned colleges accepting people, though.

 

[Foxfyre]

I really think it depends. A student starts out out with an automatic advantage if he goes to well funded schools that offer advanced placement and a variety of options to help a student become ready for college. In addition there is an entire industry devoted just to tutoring or teaching classes on how to score well on tests…if they can afford it.

A college education has long been considered the pathway out of poverty and a college educated parent often leads to college educated kids. A lot of these students are also first generation.

It is a bit of a fallacy to say that in changing the admission’s process, they are not striving for excellence. Excellence is not just what you start with, it is what you end with and it is the process of learning to get. Excellence should be measured by matriculation not admission.

I believe there is a minimum GPA that all must have to be accepted in these schools, and when you are talking about lowering standards, you still have to meet that. If it is 3.0, you still have to meet that, a 2.5 won’t cut it. They have always tied admission to multiple metrics, not just gpa and test scores, so I don’t the problem. Graduation rates are high and that should indicate excellence even if they struggle and have to work harder to get there.

The statistics show that Asian students and white students--those who get into college based solely on merit--do graduate in the high 70% range. That is still far too low.

The numbers for people of color who don't have to meet high standards but where standards are lowered for them in order to create 'diversity' do not fare nearly so well: 42% for black students at most. And far too many of those include ridiculous accommodations to keep a great athlete in school or degrees in 'black studies' or some such with very limited marketability.

I say forget color, treat everybody the same, teach real subjects that prepare people for good jobs, and set admission standards high enough so that only competent, dedicated students will qualify. Those who don't qualify, direct toward the trades and other ways of preparing themselves for high earning jobs. The statistics show there is virtually no difference between the earning power and success between the magna cum laude white student and black student earning the same degrees.

If people of color are under-represented among graduates, don't lower standards and set them up for more failure, but toss out incompetent school teachers and administrators and install those who will educate all the students competently. And throw out all the social engineering and indoctrination garbage and teach real subjects including all information, good and bad, and encouraging the students to think critically about it instead of telling them what they are supposed to think.

 

[Foxfyre]

Agree: What TJ did, in an effort to get in lower-scoring blacks and Latinos, and keep out higher-scoring whites and Asians, was to dumb down the school.

And yes, that is what is happening when liberals see race first, and competence second. We most likely do not get the best, but the best within that racial group. It is lowering the caliber of the country - which is what the Dems want.

I don't think the Democrats think that's what they want, but it does promote a lot more mediocracy and/or under performance than being 'color blind' and just allowing people to compete for true excellence in everything.

Those of color may lag behind for awhile as they have been conditioned by misguided do-gooders for generations to not expect to have to compete at the same level as everybody else in order to be satisfactory. But the barriers to success re race and gender have now been removed for pretty much everybody and I'm quite confident that people of color are every bit as capable to achieve at the same levels as the 'white' people do once they know they have to do that to prosper and are encouraged to reach their full potential.

 

[Curried Goats]

The upcoming Oct 31st hearing on whether one’s race can determine whether he is admitted or rejected from an educational program will undoubtedly uphold the Constitution, and thus blacks, whites, and Asians will all be evaluated with race removed from the equation.

This will reach beyond the Ivy halls and into the workplace. No longer will a black with worse qualifications be hired or promoted over a better qualified white because of skin color.

And this is a good thing, and will be to the betterment of our country - now falling woefully behind other developed countries. When you select the BEST people for jobs regardless of race , rather than the BEST people within a small sub segment of the population, then you get the BEST, period.

In the linked article, it explains the case and that Harvard’s anti-Asian policy stems from the same “holistic admissions” approach developed in the 1920s to reduce the number of Jews.

Supreme Court to hear case that could end 40 years of race-based affirmative action in university admissions

The U.S. Supreme Court is set to hear an affirmative action case against Harvard University that could see the elimination of a 40-year race-based admissions precedent.

www.foxnews.com

Social pressure will continue to do what the law does currently. Nothing will change.

 

[Billo_Really]

Nope sweetheart…I’m XX all the way

Thank God! I will go back to my original way of thinking about you....so, let's turn down the lights and you need to talk slower...

 

[Billo_Really]

Nah. Coyote is 100 percent woman.

Okay, now on with the thread...

I hate to say it and this comment is not a drive by, but this thread seems like another dog whistle for white privilege. The fact that you feel the need to make a distinction, gives credence to the notion you prefer the old status quo?

 

[IM2]

Okay, now on with the thread...

I hate to say it and this comment is not a drive by, but this thread seems like another dog whistle for white privilege. The fact that you feel the need to make a distinction, gives credence to the notion you prefer the old status quo?

I don't prefer any status quo and this thread is all about somebody complaining because whites cannot get everything some believe they are entitled to.

 

[IM2]

I don't think the Democrats think that's what they want, but it does promote a lot more mediocracy and/or under performance than being 'color blind' and just allowing people to compete for true excellence in everything.

Those of color may lag behind for awhile as they have been conditioned by misguided do-gooders for generations to not expect to have to compete at the same level as everybody else in order to be satisfactory. But the barriers to success re race and gender have now been removed for pretty much everybody and I'm quite confident that people of color are every bit as capable to achieve at the same levels as the 'white' people do once they know they have to do that to prosper and are encouraged to reach their full potential.

Why do some whites belive this hogwash? Have you made the same consideration of mediocrity when the only requirement was white skin? We live with millions of whites in various professions who got admitted into college only because they were white? True excellence has NEVER had anything to do with things in this country and it's high time some white people stopped lying to themselves about this.

 

[Coyote]

She has never said that colleges should automatically except anybody.

She might have mentioned colleges accepting people, though.

I think you missed the point. Some state Universities automatically except the top 5 percent of every highschool in their region. She supported that.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I think you missed the point. Some state Universities automatically except the top 5 percent of every highschool in their region. She supported that.

If they allow the top 5 percent to enroll, they are ACCEPTING that student, not excepting

 

[hadit]

They've had the government doing it since at least 1776. Blacks were not allowed to be students at most colleges until at least 1964. This is what your cognitive dissonance doesn't allow you to see. The bottom line is whites like you need to stop pretending that nonwhites were excluded from these institutions until relatively recent times.

No one is pretending otherwise, certainly not me.

 

[hadit]

Unqualified whites have been shoehorned in them for years. The black graduation rate at Harvard is 95 percent and in all Ivy League schools over 85 percent. So how about dropping that garbage argument?

Only if they face the same requirements that white students do.

 

[Foxfyre]

Why do some whites belive this hogwash? Have you made the same consideration of mediocrity when the only requirement was white skin? We live with millions of whites in various professions who got admitted into college only because they were white? True excellence has NEVER had anything to do with things in this country and it's high time some white people stopped lying to themselves about this.

I think you didn't read my post carefully nor the post I was responding to.

 

[IM2]

No one is pretending otherwise, certainly not me.

The argument that you make says different.

 

[IM2]

Only if they face the same requirements that white students do.

And here is the example that shows how you pretend. In the particular case this thread was made to whine about, unqualified white students are taking seats from black, Hispanic, Asian and Native American students based on ALDC preferences. And as we saw at USC unqualified white student were admitted after parents paid off people. These things are purposefully not mentioned by you, the OP and some others in this thread.

 

[IM2]

I think you didn't read my post carefully nor the post I was responding to.

I read what you posted, what you responded to and still ask why some whites believe that hogwash.

 

[Foxfyre]

I read what you posted, what you responded to and still ask why some whites believe that hogwash.

White people, black people, brown people, Asian people--Americans in general--who are capable of thinking critically believe it because it is true.

Have a pleasant evening.

 

[Coyote]

If they allow the top 5 percent to enroll, they are ACCEPTING that student, not excepting

Sure.

 

[IM2]

White people, black people, brown people, Asian people--Americans in general--who are capable of thinking critically believe it because it is true.

Have a pleasant evening.

People who think critically understand that for all of Americas existence, dumb, unqualfied whites have existed and have been admitted or hired when better qualified people of color have been turned down.