When should the Fed start deleveraging?

oldfart

Older than dirt
Nov 5, 2009
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Redneck Riviera
Trading insults is lots of fun, but I think we ought to get beyond the ideological shit on rare occasions and actually discuss something important.

The reason given for the recent volatility in financial markets this month is that the participants are wondering when the Fed will stop buying and start selling securities. There was actually a pretty good article in "National Review" about six months ago which actually says the same thing as Krugman does. So what are they talking about?

Economists across the political spectrum use one model or another that accepts one basic Keynesian point: that monetary stimulus like the Fed has been conducting will have to be reversed at some point or it will cause excess inflation. I think everybody agrees on that. The question is, how do we know when we are at that point and what does the Fed do then?

The answer given by the New Keynesians is that while we are in an extremely weak economy there is zero risk of inflation and a huge cost if we deleverage too early. On the other side, people like Martin Feldstein have been warning of high inflation for over five years and don't think that expansionary monetary policy is helping much right now. Recently the argument has emerged that this monetary policy is creating a "bubble" which risks another bust.

Now there is a quick, easy, and good way to measure what the markets think future inflation will be. The genius of using this is that monetary policy chiefly effects the real economy through expectations, especially in financial markets, so to a large extent it doesn't matter if the expectations are true or not. If lots of people think that the Fed is going to reduce its buying, regardless of the reasons for that belief or its accuracy, the bond market will sell off bonds, bond prices will fall, and published interest rates will rise. Next week at the Treasury auction new issues will fetch lower prices and the yield rates on newly issued bonds will be higher. QED.

Now this is not a Left-Right thing; it is mechanically how "open market operations", the day-to-day monetary policy of the Fed, functions. It would be exactly the same if Rand Paul were chairman of the Fed. But here's the new wrinkle: that weekly auction not only sells things like the ten year Treasury note, it also sells a Treasury Inflation Protected Security (TIPS) which adjusts its face value for the inflation rate. Of course this costs a bit more. The spread between the regular Treasury note and TIPS is the market's prediction of future inflation. You can check out the auction results yourself at TreasuryDirect - Home

Now this spread is a great little tool for macro models. It is market determined and does not depend on a sample. The market has trillions of dollars at stake, so we know they are serious. There is no sampling error and no controversy about how survey questions are worded and such polling stuff. And it does measure inflation expectations. The spread has begun creeping up lately, from about 1.7% to about 2.0% over the last few months.

So if we are worried about inflation like Feldman, all we have to do is pick a trigger level for the spread and scream like banshees when it is reached. The current official goal is 2% and the CBO model predicts inflation of 2.0--2.5% through the end of 2014 and modestly higher after that. We might reasonably expect that a 70's style monetary tightening Volker style would not be indicated until at least a 3.5--4% level, but that's what the debate is about.

Whatever trigger point is chosen, there remains the question of what do do when it is reached. This is probably a good question for later as I have gone on longer than I anticipated already. Suffice it to say that traditional monetary theory of any flavor recommends pretty much the same action and that even the "National Review" doesn't think it will be hard to implement.

Peace and crabs from Joe's.
 
They can't. QE Infinity is the only thing keeping the US Economy from crashing.

The US doesn't have manufacturing jobs anymore, those were sent overseas in "Free" Trade Agreements. The US is a Service Economy now. You know like Fast Food, House Cleaning, Lawn mowing etc... That doesn't generate NEAR the GDP needed to pay off what, 16 Trillion in debt and how many hundreds of Trillions in Liabilities?

The US Dollar will lose it's Reserve Currency status just about the same time the last Banker steps on his plane for Zurich. The Dollar will crash. Americans will not be able to afford anything because everything is imported.

The Dems will blame the Repubs, the Repubs will blame the Dems. And as always, Americans will fall for it.

But that's ok, we got this a made up War in the Middle East to distract everyone with.
 
They can't. QE Infinity is the only thing keeping the US Economy from crashing.

Well if you added a restrictive monetary policy to austerity today in the USA I think you probably would see another economic collapse. Clearly there would have been one in 2008--9 without extraordinary measures in monetary policy.

The US doesn't have manufacturing jobs anymore, those were sent overseas in "Free" Trade Agreements. The US is a Service Economy now. You know like Fast Food, House Cleaning, Lawn mowing etc... That doesn't generate NEAR the GDP needed to pay off what, 16 Trillion in debt and how many hundreds of Trillions in Liabilities?

I think the decline of American manufacturing is reversible, but that might require America to find an industrial policy.

The US Dollar will lose it's Reserve Currency status just about the same time the last Banker steps on his plane for Zurich. The Dollar will crash. Americans will not be able to afford anything because everything is imported.

I think the world will move to more SDR's and less dollar reserves, but it will be a gradual process.

The Dems will blame the Repubs, the Repubs will blame the Dems. And as always, Americans will fall for it.

Go for the low hanging fruit much? Not much chance of being wrong with that one.

Say, what are you doing after the revolution?
 
I think if the Democrat party ever gets control of all branches of government they will nationalize our
retirement accounts.Goodbye IRA,401K plans and the like.They will want a quick fix and there's a whole lot of cash in those accounts that they would love to get their hands on.
 
The Dems have been floating the idea of "Guaranteed Retirement Accounts" (to be funded by nationalizing 401Ks and IRAs) for a few years.

Teresa Ghilarducci is the hack who has been promoting the concept

Teresa Ghilarducci | Labor Economist
 
The economy if growing is at a snails pace...
Interest payments on the debt is staggering.
And Libs love their big programs.
And the only way out for them is to spend....

I feel that all I'm doing is preparing a nice little nest egg with my retirement accounts for the
Democrat party...
 
... if we are worried about inflation like Feldman...

...even the "National Review" doesn't think it will be hard to implement.

Peace and crabs from Joe's.

Exactly.

Bottom line: the economy is a long ways from out of the woods.
For the foreseeable future the PRIMARY danger is a meltdown, not inflation.
 
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Chances are the Federal Reserve will be leveraging up instead of the opposite. They're adjusting their market operations to what actually happens in the marketplace instead of staying the course with a fixed plan.
 
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Bernanke, though, had a message of his own to deliver again, and he put it as bluntly as a Federal Reserve chairman can. Fiscal policy “has become significantly more restrictive,” he said. “In particular, the expiration of the payroll tax cut, the enactment of tax increases, the effects of the budget caps on discretionary spending, the onset of the sequestration, and the declines in defense spending for overseas military operations are expected, collectively, to exert a substantial drag on the economy this year.”
Ben Bernanke to Congress: I?m Not the Problem. You Are.
 
The main issue I see is the return on the debt spent to keep markets and only markets afloat will come back with massive consequences. Under Obama the US and the FR run deficits so high that the interest alone will be and is in fact currently hard to pay.

I understand the concept of floating the economy in a downturn until it get's moving again. The issue is it;s done off debt. It's gambling of the worst kind. This year the US might for the first time in 5 years of Obama being in office be under 1 trillion dollars added to the deficit, but that's yet to be seen. On top of that the FED is injecting hundreds of billions. Add the 2 together and you have a number so large just saying it will get Obama bots ripping their face off trying to defend that kind of economic policy.


For the record, inflation is massive and Obama/Fed are trying to make housing prices go up... again.... People are working less, making less per hour and these guys are making things more expensive. It's FDR all over again, pay farmers to buy crops and not grow while people starve in the streets.
 
Trading insults is lots of fun, but I think we ought to get beyond the ideological shit on rare occasions and actually discuss something important.

The reason given for the recent volatility in financial markets this month is that the participants are wondering when the Fed will stop buying and start selling securities. There was actually a pretty good article in "National Review" about six months ago which actually says the same thing as Krugman does. So what are they talking about?

Economists across the political spectrum use one model or another that accepts one basic Keynesian point: that monetary stimulus like the Fed has been conducting will have to be reversed at some point or it will cause excess inflation. I think everybody agrees on that. The question is, how do we know when we are at that point and what does the Fed do then?

The answer given by the New Keynesians is that while we are in an extremely weak economy there is zero risk of inflation and a huge cost if we deleverage too early. On the other side, people like Martin Feldstein have been warning of high inflation for over five years and don't think that expansionary monetary policy is helping much right now. Recently the argument has emerged that this monetary policy is creating a "bubble" which risks another bust.

Now there is a quick, easy, and good way to measure what the markets think future inflation will be. The genius of using this is that monetary policy chiefly effects the real economy through expectations, especially in financial markets, so to a large extent it doesn't matter if the expectations are true or not. If lots of people think that the Fed is going to reduce its buying, regardless of the reasons for that belief or its accuracy, the bond market will sell off bonds, bond prices will fall, and published interest rates will rise. Next week at the Treasury auction new issues will fetch lower prices and the yield rates on newly issued bonds will be higher. QED.

Now this is not a Left-Right thing; it is mechanically how "open market operations", the day-to-day monetary policy of the Fed, functions. It would be exactly the same if Rand Paul were chairman of the Fed. But here's the new wrinkle: that weekly auction not only sells things like the ten year Treasury note, it also sells a Treasury Inflation Protected Security (TIPS) which adjusts its face value for the inflation rate. Of course this costs a bit more. The spread between the regular Treasury note and TIPS is the market's prediction of future inflation. You can check out the auction results yourself at TreasuryDirect - Home

Now this spread is a great little tool for macro models. It is market determined and does not depend on a sample. The market has trillions of dollars at stake, so we know they are serious. There is no sampling error and no controversy about how survey questions are worded and such polling stuff. And it does measure inflation expectations. The spread has begun creeping up lately, from about 1.7% to about 2.0% over the last few months.

So if we are worried about inflation like Feldman, all we have to do is pick a trigger level for the spread and scream like banshees when it is reached. The current official goal is 2% and the CBO model predicts inflation of 2.0--2.5% through the end of 2014 and modestly higher after that. We might reasonably expect that a 70's style monetary tightening Volker style would not be indicated until at least a 3.5--4% level, but that's what the debate is about.

Whatever trigger point is chosen, there remains the question of what do do when it is reached. This is probably a good question for later as I have gone on longer than I anticipated already. Suffice it to say that traditional monetary theory of any flavor recommends pretty much the same action and that even the "National Review" doesn't think it will be hard to implement.

Peace and crabs from Joe's.
So, which crabs are best, iyo? king, dungeness, or snow??
My boat is at the dock, 15 minutes from good crabbing. Dungeness only here.
Maybe it is not an economic issue for most, but imo, crabs are a requirement for a good life.
 
Bernanke, though, had a message of his own to deliver again, and he put it as bluntly as a Federal Reserve chairman can. Fiscal policy “has become significantly more restrictive,” he said. “In particular, the expiration of the payroll tax cut, the enactment of tax increases, the effects of the budget caps on discretionary spending, the onset of the sequestration, and the declines in defense spending for overseas military operations are expected, collectively, to exert a substantial drag on the economy this year.”
Ben Bernanke to Congress: I?m Not the Problem. You Are.

A CBO study that Helicopter Ben was relying on predicts that the cumulative effect of these fiscal measures will be to cut the 2013 growth rate of real GDP in HALF. We could be looking at a year-over-year rate of less than one percent. That would make per capita real GNP zero or slightly negative, IOW a stagnant or declining standard of living.
 
I understand the concept of floating the economy in a downturn until it get's moving again.... This year the US might for the first time in 5 years of Obama being in office be under 1 trillion dollars added to the deficit, but that's yet to be seen.

I don't see much of a chance of the deficit being larger than projected. First, the fiscal year ends September 30, so we are almost nine months through it already. So far, each time the Bureau of the Debt issues its monthly report, the results have been a little under projections and the projected deficit at September 30 has been lowered. It might be fun to set up a pool and see who can come closest!

On top of that the FED is injecting hundreds of billions. Add the 2 together and you have a number so large just saying it will get Obama bots ripping their face off trying to defend that kind of economic policy.

You lost me here. The Fed has been making about $80--90 billion a month on its balance sheet investments. This money goes back to the U S Treasury. Before 2008 this figure was about $25 billion a month. So what's the problem here as you see it?

For the record, inflation is massive ....
Whoa! "Inflation is massive" by what measure? Anticipated inflation were the TIPS spread is right at 2% on the 10-year bond and the 30-year bond. CPI is less than 2%. Tell me what you are looking at.
 
So, which crabs are best, iyo? king, dungeness, or snow??
My boat is at the dock, 15 minutes from good crabbing. Dungeness only here.
Maybe it is not an economic issue for most, but imo, crabs are a requirement for a good life.

Joe's Crab Shack is a chain on the coast famous for its T-shirts proclaiming "Peace--Love--Crabs".

The best bet for crabs is probably Landry's in Pensacola. Get the steamer for two and allow at least a couple hours to eat it.

Best crabs I get are at a fish camp in Louisiana where we drop the pots right off the porch. The shrimp we have to trawl a net for at about four o'clock if we plan to eat by six. Corn at the local vegetable stand is fresh every morning, the new potatoes are from the garden, and the crab boil is Zaterain's. Only thing missing is the Jax Voodoo Beer; the SOB's sold out to a company in New Jersey and have ruined it.
 
There's a place in PCB called "Dirty Dick's Crab Shack."

I can't believe they named a restaurant that. If there is a name of a crab restaurant that would make me even more repulsed, I don't know what it is.
 

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