When SHTF, which of these weapons would you choose?

[WinterBorn]

I don't particularly care for the choices presented. I would prefer my old 870 12 ga, and my springfield M1911.

THe more complicated the firearm gets the more likely it is to malfunction. And if it will malfunction, it will do so at the worst time.

As for those who wish to ridicule preppers, that works for me. If you are entertained by my have plans for several possible events in my future, I am glad to provide the laughs.

However, to pretend that you know that there will never be a breakdown society (either long or short term) and that our civilization is safe, is simply ignorance or bullshit.

We have some stored water, canned goods (and non-perishables), and a few plans. We treat it like we do plans to evacuate if the house is on fire, or to seek shelter from a tornado.

Don't get more simple then a gun you can build with a punch, screw driver, vice grips, and a proper hammer. The 870 is a solid choice to. 1911 though, its a bit dated and not a real good choice for those who are not "gun nuts". I would take your 870 and chuck it in the safe with the civi M4 and add a glock.

The 870 is as solid and reliable a firearm as I have ever owned. With proper shell selection it can be both a defensive weapon and a hunting tool. As for the 1911, I prefer it over Glocks, Sigs, or any other "newer" semi-auto. It fits my hand better. I am also more accustomed to it than any other. I like the impact of the .45ACP round and the sturdiness of the pistol itself. The only drawback would seem to be having 8 rounds per magazine instead of the 13 or more the Glocks hold. But given the speed with which I can reload, that seems less an issue than my ability to shoot the pistol well and the gun's ability to withstand harsh environments.

I'll keep these two as my "go to" guns.

I also wonder if anyone else has a couple of decent pellet rifles in their armory? Quiet to shoot, inexpensive to stockpile ammo for, and capable of killing small game without alerting the "neighbors".

 

[earlycuyler]

I don't particularly care for the choices presented. I would prefer my old 870 12 ga, and my springfield M1911.

THe more complicated the firearm gets the more likely it is to malfunction. And if it will malfunction, it will do so at the worst time.

As for those who wish to ridicule preppers, that works for me. If you are entertained by my have plans for several possible events in my future, I am glad to provide the laughs.

However, to pretend that you know that there will never be a breakdown society (either long or short term) and that our civilization is safe, is simply ignorance or bullshit.

We have some stored water, canned goods (and non-perishables), and a few plans. We treat it like we do plans to evacuate if the house is on fire, or to seek shelter from a tornado.

Don't get more simple then a gun you can build with a punch, screw driver, vice grips, and a proper hammer. The 870 is a solid choice to. 1911 though, its a bit dated and not a real good choice for those who are not "gun nuts". I would take your 870 and chuck it in the safe with the civi M4 and add a glock.

The 870 is as solid and reliable a firearm as I have ever owned. With proper shell selection it can be both a defensive weapon and a hunting tool. As for the 1911, I prefer it over Glocks, Sigs, or any other "newer" semi-auto. It fits my hand better. I am also more accustomed to it than any other. I like the impact of the .45ACP round and the sturdiness of the pistol itself. The only drawback would seem to be having 8 rounds per magazine instead of the 13 or more the Glocks hold. But given the speed with which I can reload, that seems less an issue than my ability to shoot the pistol well and the gun's ability to withstand harsh environments.

I'll keep these two as my "go to" guns.

I also wonder if anyone else has a couple of decent pellet rifles in their armory? Quiet to shoot, inexpensive to stockpile ammo for, and capable of killing small game without alerting the "neighbors".

The plane old Benjamen Franklin pump is what I use for urban bunny and squirrel control. I have had this since I was a kid and it still works great. About 5 pumps will do it.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If it's a long gun, edged weapon combination, I think I've got mine already.

None of the above.

AR-15 and a Parang.

I picked this one up at Walmart for $34

Bear Grylls Parang from Gerber - Machete - YouTube

We're pretty close.
I'd go with the AR as well.
But I would have to go with the Kukri or Gurkha...

Google Image Result for http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/kukri-extremaratio-knives/kukri-extremaratio-knives.jpg

KnifeHog - Cold Steel Gurkha Kukri SK-5 Knife 39LGKT

 

[earlycuyler]

Meh,
I would not touch anything from cold steel, and a kukri is more knife then I need.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Meh,
I would not touch anything from cold steel, and a kukri is more knife then I need.

Didnt say what brand. Just a visual aid.
Most people have no idea what those look like.

I like the idea that the kukri chops fire wood as well as arms and legs.

 

[earlycuyler]

Meh,
I would not touch anything from cold steel, and a kukri is more knife then I need.

Didnt say what brand. Just a visual aid.
Most people have no idea what those look like.

I like the idea that the kukri chops fire wood as well as arms and legs.

Dang right they will chop! Its a powerful designe no doubt. I just dont need that much knife. And they are dangerous in the hands on non knife savy folks. The Enep is another chopping monster you may check out if you are into that stuff.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Pick one firearm, and one hand to hand weapon.

My choice is the AA-12 and sabre

AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun! - YouTube

"Fantasizing about violence"?

This thread is about as "fantasy" as it gets, and it's pretty clear you've spent a lot of time fantasizing about killing your fellow Americans.



In addition to that - Am I correct in saying that you don't actually own any of the guns you've added as choices?

How do you plan on getting an AA-12, when (as you say) the shit hits the fan?

What possible situation have you come up with in your fantasies that an AA-12 would actually be useful? It's a cool-looking weapon, but that's it.

 

[WinterBorn]

Pick one firearm, and one hand to hand weapon.

My choice is the AA-12 and sabre

AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun! - YouTube

"Fantasizing about violence"?

This thread is about as "fantasy" as it gets, and it's pretty clear you've spent a lot of time fantasizing about killing your fellow Americans.



In addition to that - Am I correct in saying that you don't actually own any of the guns you've added as choices?

How do you plan on getting an AA-12, when (as you say) the shit hits the fan?

What possible situation have you come up with in your fantasies that an AA-12 would actually be useful? It's a cool-looking weapon, but that's it.

I think you are probably right. I would imagine that the poster of the OP is a teenager with more experience playing video games than in actually shooting.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Pick one firearm, and one hand to hand weapon.

My choice is the AA-12 and sabre

AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun! - YouTube

"Fantasizing about violence"?

This thread is about as "fantasy" as it gets, and it's pretty clear you've spent a lot of time fantasizing about killing your fellow Americans.



In addition to that - Am I correct in saying that you don't actually own any of the guns you've added as choices?

How do you plan on getting an AA-12, when (as you say) the shit hits the fan?

What possible situation have you come up with in your fantasies that an AA-12 would actually be useful? It's a cool-looking weapon, but that's it.

Nah....just the liberal ones. Republicans shoot back.

 

[MisterBeale]

Pick one firearm, and one hand to hand weapon.

My choice is the AA-12 and sabre

AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun! - YouTube

"Fantasizing about violence"?

This thread is about as "fantasy" as it gets, and it's pretty clear you've spent a lot of time fantasizing about killing your fellow Americans.



In addition to that - Am I correct in saying that you don't actually own any of the guns you've added as choices?

How do you plan on getting an AA-12, when (as you say) the shit hits the fan?

What possible situation have you come up with in your fantasies that an AA-12 would actually be useful? It's a cool-looking weapon, but that's it.

You know, I have enjoyed this thread, but I have to admit, I know next to nothing about guns, so I have for the most part, stayed on the sidelines.

I am in favor of the second Amendment however.

What I don't get, is that when I went to wikipedia to find out what an M4 is, it turned out it is illegal for civilians to own. I haven't wanted to say anything, becausee, well, I guess I am just ignorant as a school boy. I did see on another forum where a guy built one out of an antique shovel, but I suppose that isn't exactly the same.

So, someone please clarify, where do you acquire such military grade hardware, legally?

U.S. civilian ownership

Sales of select-fire or full automatic M4s by Colt are restricted to military and law enforcement agencies. Only under special circumstances can a private citizen own an M4 in a select-fire or fully automatic configuration. While many machine guns can be legally owned with a proper tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, an amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 barred the transfer to private citizens of machine guns made or registered in the U.S. after May 19, 1986. The only exception was for Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOT): licensed machine gun dealers with demonstration letters, manufacturers, and those dealing in exports and imports. As such, only the earliest Colt M4 prototypes built prior to May 19, 1986 would be legal to own by civilians not in the categories mentioned.[citation needed] The modular nature of the AR15 design, however, makes it a relatively simple matter to fit M4-specific components to a "pre-'86" select-fire AR15 lower receiver, producing an "M4" in all but name.

Civilian replicas of the M4 typically have 16 inch barrels (or standard 14.5 inch M4 barrels with permanently attached flash suppressors to bring the effective length to 16 inches) and are semi-automatic only to meet the legal definition of a rifle under Title I (Gun Control Act). The M4 falls under restrictions of Title II (National Firearms Act: the 14.5 inch barrel makes the M4 a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) and select fire capability (semi- or full automatic) makes the M4 a machinegun. Civilian-legal M4s are also popular with police as a patrol carbine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#U.S._civilian_ownership

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Pick one firearm, and one hand to hand weapon.

My choice is the AA-12 and sabre

AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun! - YouTube

"Fantasizing about violence"?

This thread is about as "fantasy" as it gets, and it's pretty clear you've spent a lot of time fantasizing about killing your fellow Americans.



In addition to that - Am I correct in saying that you don't actually own any of the guns you've added as choices?

How do you plan on getting an AA-12, when (as you say) the shit hits the fan?

What possible situation have you come up with in your fantasies that an AA-12 would actually be useful? It's a cool-looking weapon, but that's it.

You know, I have enjoyed this thread, but I have to admit, I know next to nothing about guns, so I have for the most part, stayed on the sidelines.

I am in favor of the second Amendment however.

What I don't get, is that when I went to wikipedia to find out what an M4 is, it turned out it is illegal for civilians to own. I haven't wanted to say anything, becausee, well, I guess I am just ignorant as a school boy. I did see on another forum where a guy built one out of an antique shovel, but I suppose that isn't exactly the same.

So, someone please clarify, where do you acquire such military grade hardware, legally?

U.S. civilian ownership

Sales of select-fire or full automatic M4s by Colt are restricted to military and law enforcement agencies. Only under special circumstances can a private citizen own an M4 in a select-fire or fully automatic configuration. While many machine guns can be legally owned with a proper tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, an amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 barred the transfer to private citizens of machine guns made or registered in the U.S. after May 19, 1986. The only exception was for Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOT): licensed machine gun dealers with demonstration letters, manufacturers, and those dealing in exports and imports. As such, only the earliest Colt M4 prototypes built prior to May 19, 1986 would be legal to own by civilians not in the categories mentioned.[citation needed] The modular nature of the AR15 design, however, makes it a relatively simple matter to fit M4-specific components to a "pre-'86" select-fire AR15 lower receiver, producing an "M4" in all but name.

Civilian replicas of the M4 typically have 16 inch barrels (or standard 14.5 inch M4 barrels with permanently attached flash suppressors to bring the effective length to 16 inches) and are semi-automatic only to meet the legal definition of a rifle under Title I (Gun Control Act). The M4 falls under restrictions of Title II (National Firearms Act: the 14.5 inch barrel makes the M4 a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) and select fire capability (semi- or full automatic) makes the M4 a machinegun. Civilian-legal M4s are also popular with police as a patrol carbine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#U.S._civilian_ownership

There are plenty of legal M4s - it's only illegal if they're full-auto, burst, or select-fire. M4s sold to civilians are all semi-auto, therefore legal.

The AA-12, on the other hand, is not legal anywhere in the US.

 

[WinterBorn]

"Fantasizing about violence"?

This thread is about as "fantasy" as it gets, and it's pretty clear you've spent a lot of time fantasizing about killing your fellow Americans.



In addition to that - Am I correct in saying that you don't actually own any of the guns you've added as choices?

How do you plan on getting an AA-12, when (as you say) the shit hits the fan?

What possible situation have you come up with in your fantasies that an AA-12 would actually be useful? It's a cool-looking weapon, but that's it.

You know, I have enjoyed this thread, but I have to admit, I know next to nothing about guns, so I have for the most part, stayed on the sidelines.

I am in favor of the second Amendment however.

What I don't get, is that when I went to wikipedia to find out what an M4 is, it turned out it is illegal for civilians to own. I haven't wanted to say anything, becausee, well, I guess I am just ignorant as a school boy. I did see on another forum where a guy built one out of an antique shovel, but I suppose that isn't exactly the same.

So, someone please clarify, where do you acquire such military grade hardware, legally?

U.S. civilian ownership

Sales of select-fire or full automatic M4s by Colt are restricted to military and law enforcement agencies. Only under special circumstances can a private citizen own an M4 in a select-fire or fully automatic configuration. While many machine guns can be legally owned with a proper tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, an amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 barred the transfer to private citizens of machine guns made or registered in the U.S. after May 19, 1986. The only exception was for Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOT): licensed machine gun dealers with demonstration letters, manufacturers, and those dealing in exports and imports. As such, only the earliest Colt M4 prototypes built prior to May 19, 1986 would be legal to own by civilians not in the categories mentioned.[citation needed] The modular nature of the AR15 design, however, makes it a relatively simple matter to fit M4-specific components to a "pre-'86" select-fire AR15 lower receiver, producing an "M4" in all but name.

Civilian replicas of the M4 typically have 16 inch barrels (or standard 14.5 inch M4 barrels with permanently attached flash suppressors to bring the effective length to 16 inches) and are semi-automatic only to meet the legal definition of a rifle under Title I (Gun Control Act). The M4 falls under restrictions of Title II (National Firearms Act: the 14.5 inch barrel makes the M4 a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) and select fire capability (semi- or full automatic) makes the M4 a machinegun. Civilian-legal M4s are also popular with police as a patrol carbine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#U.S._civilian_ownership

There are plenty of legal M4s - it's only illegal if they're full-auto, burst, or select-fire. M4s sold to civilians are all semi-auto, therefore legal.

The AA-12, on the other hand, is not legal anywhere in the US.

I suspect the OP list was taken from some video game.

If a neophyte like him did manage to come into possession of either of those full auto weapons, it wouldn't be long before they would be scavenged from his corpse.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

"Fantasizing about violence"?

This thread is about as "fantasy" as it gets, and it's pretty clear you've spent a lot of time fantasizing about killing your fellow Americans.



In addition to that - Am I correct in saying that you don't actually own any of the guns you've added as choices?

How do you plan on getting an AA-12, when (as you say) the shit hits the fan?

What possible situation have you come up with in your fantasies that an AA-12 would actually be useful? It's a cool-looking weapon, but that's it.

You know, I have enjoyed this thread, but I have to admit, I know next to nothing about guns, so I have for the most part, stayed on the sidelines.

I am in favor of the second Amendment however.

What I don't get, is that when I went to wikipedia to find out what an M4 is, it turned out it is illegal for civilians to own. I haven't wanted to say anything, becausee, well, I guess I am just ignorant as a school boy. I did see on another forum where a guy built one out of an antique shovel, but I suppose that isn't exactly the same.

So, someone please clarify, where do you acquire such military grade hardware, legally?

U.S. civilian ownership

Sales of select-fire or full automatic M4s by Colt are restricted to military and law enforcement agencies. Only under special circumstances can a private citizen own an M4 in a select-fire or fully automatic configuration. While many machine guns can be legally owned with a proper tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, an amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 barred the transfer to private citizens of machine guns made or registered in the U.S. after May 19, 1986. The only exception was for Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOT): licensed machine gun dealers with demonstration letters, manufacturers, and those dealing in exports and imports. As such, only the earliest Colt M4 prototypes built prior to May 19, 1986 would be legal to own by civilians not in the categories mentioned.[citation needed] The modular nature of the AR15 design, however, makes it a relatively simple matter to fit M4-specific components to a "pre-'86" select-fire AR15 lower receiver, producing an "M4" in all but name.

Civilian replicas of the M4 typically have 16 inch barrels (or standard 14.5 inch M4 barrels with permanently attached flash suppressors to bring the effective length to 16 inches) and are semi-automatic only to meet the legal definition of a rifle under Title I (Gun Control Act). The M4 falls under restrictions of Title II (National Firearms Act: the 14.5 inch barrel makes the M4 a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) and select fire capability (semi- or full automatic) makes the M4 a machinegun. Civilian-legal M4s are also popular with police as a patrol carbine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#U.S._civilian_ownership

There are plenty of legal M4s - it's only illegal if they're full-auto, burst, or select-fire. M4s sold to civilians are all semi-auto, therefore legal.

The AA-12, on the other hand, is not legal anywhere in the US.

Pretty sure if you have your class III license you can buy one. But good luck finding one.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You know, I have enjoyed this thread, but I have to admit, I know next to nothing about guns, so I have for the most part, stayed on the sidelines.

I am in favor of the second Amendment however.

What I don't get, is that when I went to wikipedia to find out what an M4 is, it turned out it is illegal for civilians to own. I haven't wanted to say anything, becausee, well, I guess I am just ignorant as a school boy. I did see on another forum where a guy built one out of an antique shovel, but I suppose that isn't exactly the same.

So, someone please clarify, where do you acquire such military grade hardware, legally?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#U.S._civilian_ownership

There are plenty of legal M4s - it's only illegal if they're full-auto, burst, or select-fire. M4s sold to civilians are all semi-auto, therefore legal.

The AA-12, on the other hand, is not legal anywhere in the US.

I suspect the OP list was taken from some video game.

If a neophyte like him did manage to come into possession of either of those full auto weapons, it wouldn't be long before they would be scavenged from his corpse.

Full auto weapons aren't really all that effective except for keeping the enemies head down. Three round burst and single fire is way more accurate.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You know, I have enjoyed this thread, but I have to admit, I know next to nothing about guns, so I have for the most part, stayed on the sidelines.

I am in favor of the second Amendment however.

What I don't get, is that when I went to wikipedia to find out what an M4 is, it turned out it is illegal for civilians to own. I haven't wanted to say anything, becausee, well, I guess I am just ignorant as a school boy. I did see on another forum where a guy built one out of an antique shovel, but I suppose that isn't exactly the same.

So, someone please clarify, where do you acquire such military grade hardware, legally?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#U.S._civilian_ownership

There are plenty of legal M4s - it's only illegal if they're full-auto, burst, or select-fire. M4s sold to civilians are all semi-auto, therefore legal.

The AA-12, on the other hand, is not legal anywhere in the US.

Pretty sure if you have your class III license you can buy one. But good luck finding one.

I believe you are correct, but I would say its still pretty unlikely that T2A has one.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[theDoctorisIn]

There are plenty of legal M4s - it's only illegal if they're full-auto, burst, or select-fire. M4s sold to civilians are all semi-auto, therefore legal.

The AA-12, on the other hand, is not legal anywhere in the US.

I suspect the OP list was taken from some video game.

If a neophyte like him did manage to come into possession of either of those full auto weapons, it wouldn't be long before they would be scavenged from his corpse.

Full auto weapons aren't really all that effective except for keeping the enemies head down. Three round burst and single fire is way more accurate.

That's pretty much the point I was trying to make before. In whatever Mad Max scenario the OP is imagining, a full-auto shotgun is almost worse than useless if the roving band of rapists wearing football pads is more than 50 feet away from him.

I'd take my off-brand AR-10 over any of the ridiculous choices in the OP, should I be thrown into his post-apocalyptic fantasy.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[WinterBorn]

There are plenty of legal M4s - it's only illegal if they're full-auto, burst, or select-fire. M4s sold to civilians are all semi-auto, therefore legal.

The AA-12, on the other hand, is not legal anywhere in the US.

I suspect the OP list was taken from some video game.

If a neophyte like him did manage to come into possession of either of those full auto weapons, it wouldn't be long before they would be scavenged from his corpse.

Full auto weapons aren't really all that effective except for keeping the enemies head down. Three round burst and single fire is way more accurate.

They are very effective at one thing. Wasting ammunition. When the ammo is gone you have an expensive club.

 

[WinterBorn]

If you want to plan for when the SHTF (or TEOTWAWKI), you want to select weapons you can readily find ammo for, that you shoot well, and that will hold up under adverse conditions.

It won't take military style hardware to turn scavengers away.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If you want to plan for when the SHTF (or TEOTWAWKI), you want to select weapons you can readily find ammo for, that you shoot well, and that will hold up under adverse conditions.

It won't take military style hardware to turn scavengers away.

It's not the scavengers you would have to worry about.
You think the gang problem is bad now? There are plenty of would be murderers,rapist and robbers out there right now who would like nothing more then to have free reign on society.
And they would find each other over time,forming murderous groups who would rather kill you and take your shit then work for themselves.
A SHTF situation will turn an outwardly nice guy into a killer out of necessity.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I suspect the OP list was taken from some video game.

If a neophyte like him did manage to come into possession of either of those full auto weapons, it wouldn't be long before they would be scavenged from his corpse.

Full auto weapons aren't really all that effective except for keeping the enemies head down. Three round burst and single fire is way more accurate.

That's pretty much the point I was trying to make before. In whatever Mad Max scenario the OP is imagining, a full-auto shotgun is almost worse than useless if the roving band of rapists wearing football pads is more than 50 feet away from him.

I'd take my off-brand AR-10 over any of the ridiculous choices in the OP, should I be thrown into his post-apocalyptic fantasy.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I'd have to stick to the 5.56 due to the shitloads of ammo to be found across the U.S.
In a pistol I'd take a 9mm for the same reason.