When This War Is Over - Palestine Will Be Free

[Roudy]

If gipper refers to Roudy as being a radical Zionist, aka a Nazi, it's because he defends and propagates genocide, ethic-cleansing, racial dogmas and hate towards other people and religions, plus the irrational self-declared territorial demand towards a Jewish homeland based onto Palestine - as such gipper is absolutely correct.

Now in reference to the topic;
After this Gaza genocide ends, Palestinians will Not be free. Since Israel aka the Zionist government will never commit itself in earnest to come to a two State solution. they want ALL the land, plus they already annexed illegally other countries territories - which were already formulated by Zionists, way before 1948.

The chant - "from the river to the sea" is the Palestinian (PLO) reaction. stemming from the 60'ies, opposing as to what the Zionists had factually done since 1948. And the Zionist are playing people for stupid - via falsely claiming that the Palestinians would demand, as to what Israel has and is still doing - occupying and promoting ethic cleansing. The chant refers to the exact opposite.

As such a moderate Israeli government "factually interested in a peaceful solution" - that orients itself towards the UN 1947 Partition plan, is the primary requisite in any discussion pertaining to this matter. One can't expect, that the Palestinians will simply acquit to the present "remains" of the West-Bank. - and the Zionist are fully aware of that.

From the River to the Sea
A Jewish website!!

History of the slogan “From the river to the sea”

Adam Johannes presents a short history of the slogan “from the river to the sea…” and its vicissitudes through different…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

In the late 1960s, the PLO put forward a visionary idea of Arab-Jewish coexistence in one democracy, arguing for Israel and the Occupied Territories to become “one secular, democratic state of Palestine” based on one person, one vote, where Arabs, Jews, Muslims and Christians would enjoy full equality.

In 1969 the PLO had formally declared its goal “to establish a free and democratic society in Palestine for all Palestinians whether they are Muslims, Christians or Jews”. The idea was revolutionary at the time, an implicit challenge to the Arab regimes in the region that were neither free nor democratic. It was also revolutionary in making an offer to share the land as equal citizens with the people who had driven the Palestinians from their land and placed them under military occupation.

In 1974, Yasser Arafat, PLO leader, in his famous speech to the UN General Assembly would once again offer a vision of Israel and the Occupied Territories transcended by Arab-Jewish coexistence in a shared democracy from the river to the sea,
However soon afterwards the PLO began to abandon the vision. The idea of Palestine-Israel becoming one state had found little uptake from Israeli Jews, except tiny socialist groups like Matzpen, and the PLO could neither build the power, nor develop the political strategy to achieve their goal.

You forgot the part that Arafat in Arabic said the opposite for decades, he kept encouraging kids to do suicide bombings annd other murderous terrorist anctivity until every Jew is killed and Israel is with Falastine. Of course as with Hamas this was extremely profitable for him and after his death his wife fled with billions of stolen money to France and didn’t even throw a spit at the poor suffering Palestinian people.
The only Nazis in the world today are neo Nazis and IslamoNazis. Calling the victims of Nazis, Nazis is yet another one of those things Jew hating, terrorist loving morons like you love to do. The Muslim Nazi alliance in history is a fact and especially the Palestinian Mufti who was on Hitler’s payroll and who’s legacy exists among his bastard off spring and parts of the Muslim world. Deal with it.

 

[ESay]

Israel will not accept living next to a genocidal barbaric people any longer. A two state solution may occur in a decade or longer, or perhaps never. As Netanyahu said, Hamas must be obliterated, Gaza demilitarized, and the brainwashing of the kids and people to be removed from the culture entirely. Then we can talk.

I think it doesn't contradict what I wrote above. Military control means obliterating Hamas and Gaza's demilitarization. Though, not sure about 'deradicalization'. I think this policy will fail, after all.

 

[Roudy]

I think it doesn't contradict what I wrote above. Military control means obliterating Hamas and Gaza's demilitarization. Though, not sure about 'deradicalization'. I think this policy will fail, after all.

If the leaders stop spewing Jew hate, the destruction of Israel and the curriculum in changed in schools, maybe. Like Germany after WWII, they have to create laws to enforce this. It could take at least a decade.

Nothing happens until Hamas is completely removed. Next is Hezbollah, if they don’t stop shooting rockets and move back to what was agreed to at the UN, Israel will also turn Lebanon into a no man’s land. Next is Iran. Israel isn’t fucking around any longer.

 

[ESay]

If the leaders stop spewing Jew hate, the destruction of Israel and the curriculum in changed in schools, maybe. Like Germany after WWII, they have to create laws to enforce this. It could take at least a decade.

Nothing happens until Hamas is completely removed. Next is Hezbollah, if they don’t stop shooting rockets and move back to what was agreed to at the UN, Israel will also turn Lebanon into a no man’s land. Next is Iran. Israel isn’t fucking around any longer.

Much depends on Israel's internal policy. If it follows through its policy of 'bantustanization' of the West Bank, if it allows religious Orthodoxes to make some rash movements in Jerusalem - then no 'deradicalization' is possible.

Hezbollah shows great restraint so far. Anyway, it doesn't look like the second front at all that many anticipated to happen.

Iran? It is pure illusion to believe Israel can deal with Iran by itself. Or you expect the US to wage another war in the ME?

 

[Kruska]

About the topic. I think it is quite pointless to discuss any two-state peace solutions, because it is quite clear that Israel won't accept not only the 1947 borders, but even the 1967 ones. Likewise, the Arab street won't accept anything less than the 1947 borders or close to that.

Israel will follow with its operation in Gaza. And it seems to end up with somewhat 'enhanced' status quo. Israel will grant the Arabs there a political autonomy, with military control over the area. This won't lead to any longstanding peaceful resolution, of course. So, the current Arab-Israeli war is not the last one.

It isn't about "reestablishing" a 1947 or 1967 border - since these borders are only relevant in regards to Israels "existing" neighbor States.
It's about "Israel" aka the Zionists to recognize/accept that the Palestinians have the same right towards self-determination as the Zionist solely claim and reserve only for themselves, since the day they forcefully created themselves a State of Israel in 1948, via ethnic cleansing.

This is what I meant by stating - Israels government needs to reflect onto the territorial and population distribution history of the 1947 UN Partition plan. As a general requirement, before any meaningful discussions can take place. And not, "we exist", you guys don't" and we will keep occupying your remaining lands.

The exact same situation is presently reflected by the Russian-Ukrainian war.
Russia is stating "we exist" we do not recognize a Ukrainian right to exist - the big difference is that the Ukrainians have more to offer then a band of "freedom-fighters" armed with AK-47's and plastic explosives. And just as Israel is not willing to return illegal occupied and annexed territory - neither is Russia, nor is it willing to reflect onto the 1990 territorial and population distribution in regards to meaningful negotiations.

However Russia/Putin faces condemnation, (IMO rightfully), whilst Israel arrogantly demands support by the UN and gets unconditional support by the USA.

The PLO has recognized Israels and as such the Jewish "demand" towards self determination in 1988, aka a State of Israel - therefore both having enacted e.g. Hamas - since the latter does not recognize Israels right aka demand, as long as it is withheld from the Palestinians.

As such both sides will keep terrorizing and killing each other - however IMO it is only a matter of time (within the next 10 years) for "dirty bombs" to be available to radical Islamic groups. What I fear is that they won't just use them against Israel - thus "solving" the Israel-Palestinian issue, but also against those countries having supported the Zionist-Nazi policy.

This "strategy"would be nothing new - since this is exactly as to what e.g. Black September and all it's radical Islamic followups had already initiated from 1970 onward. So far having culminated in 9/11. and the creation of the ISIS horde.

It is therefore IMO - not just simply about Israel, and what these radical Zionist want - but about our own survival.

Russia isn't and won't be using nukes against Ukraine - since they have common sense - one can't expect common sense from a radical Islamist nor from a radical Zionist = see Roudy and his ilk. Right down to Jewish members of parliament - forwarding to nuke Gaza.

As I have already stated in other related threads - far more non-Jews, have been the global victims of Islamic terror then Jews. As such "we" have/are already paying the price, for supporting the Zionist policy. The USA has spend US$ 8 trillion to combat Islamic terror - with absolutely no viable result - And then some Netanyahu comes along - telling the world, Israel will wipe out Hamas and Gaza - and therefore end Islamic terror

 

[MJB12741]

It isn't about "reestablishing" a 1947 or 1967 border - since these borders are only relevant in regards to Israels "existing" neighbor States.
It's about "Israel" aka the Zionists to recognize/accept that the Palestinians have the same right towards self-determination as the Zionist solely claim and reserve only for themselves, since the day they forcefully created themselves a State of Israel in 1948, via ethnic cleansing.

This is what I meant by stating - Israels government needs to reflect onto the territorial and population distribution history of the 1947 UN Partition plan. As a general requirement, before any meaningful discussions can take place. And not, "we exist", you guys don't" and we will keep occupying your remaining lands.

The exact same situation is presently reflected by the Russian-Ukrainian war.
Russia is stating "we exist" we do not recognize a Ukrainian right to exist - the big difference is that the Ukrainians have more to offer then a band of "freedom-fighters" armed with AK-47's and plastic explosives. And just as Israel is not willing to return illegal occupied and annexed territory - neither is Russia, nor is it willing to reflect onto the 1990 territorial and population distribution in regards to meaningful negotiations.

However Russia/Putin faces condemnation, (IMO rightfully), whilst Israel arrogantly demands support by the UN and gets unconditional support by the USA.

The PLO has recognized Israels and as such the Jewish "demand" towards self determination in 1988, aka a State of Israel - therefore both having enacted e.g. Hamas - since the latter does not recognize Israels right aka demand, as long as it is withheld from the Palestinians.

As such both sides will keep terrorizing and killing each other - however IMO it is only a matter of time (within the next 10 years) for "dirty bombs" to be available to radical Islamic groups. What I fear is that they won't just use them against Israel - thus "solving" the Israel-Palestinian issue, but also against those countries having supported the Zionist-Nazi policy.

This "strategy"would be nothing new - since this is exactly as to what e.g. Black September and all it's radical Islamic followups had already initiated from 1970 onward. So far having culminated in 9/11. and the creation of the ISIS horde.

It is therefore IMO - not just simply about Israel, and what these radical Zionist want - but about our own survival.

Russia isn't and won't be using nukes against Ukraine - since they have common sense - one can't expect common sense from a radical Islamist nor from a radical Zionist = see Roudy and his ilk. Right down to Jewish members of parliament - forwarding to nuke Gaza.

As I have already stated in other related threads - far more non-Jews, have been the global victims of Islamic terror then Jews. As such "we" have/are already paying the price, for supporting the Zionist policy. The USA has spend US$ 8 trillion to combat Islamic terror - with absolutely no viable result - And then some Netanyahu comes along - telling the world, Israel will wipe out Hamas and Gaza - and therefore end Islamic terror

You just dont get it. You see, Hamas started this conflict. And rest assured Israel will finish it.

 

[Kruska]

You just dont get it. You see, Hamas started this conflict. And rest assured Israel will finish it.

Hamas kicked of the present IDF retaliation, on October 7th 2023, not the conflict (latest in 1948) as such - but people like you will never get it.

 

[Roudy]

It isn't about "reestablishing" a 1947 or 1967 border - since these borders are only relevant in regards to Israels "existing" neighbor States.
It's about "Israel" aka the Zionists to recognize/accept that the Palestinians have the same right towards self-determination as the Zionist solely claim and reserve only for themselves, since the day they forcefully created themselves a State of Israel in 1948, via ethnic cleansing.

This is what I meant by stating - Israels government needs to reflect onto the territorial and population distribution history of the 1947 UN Partition plan. As a general requirement, before any meaningful discussions can take place. And not, "we exist", you guys don't" and we will keep occupying your remaining lands.

The exact same situation is presently reflected by the Russian-Ukrainian war.
Russia is stating "we exist" we do not recognize a Ukrainian right to exist - the big difference is that the Ukrainians have more to offer then a band of "freedom-fighters" armed with AK-47's and plastic explosives. And just as Israel is not willing to return illegal occupied and annexed territory - neither is Russia, nor is it willing to reflect onto the 1990 territorial and population distribution in regards to meaningful negotiations.

However Russia/Putin faces condemnation, (IMO rightfully), whilst Israel arrogantly demands support by the UN and gets unconditional support by the USA.

The PLO has recognized Israels and as such the Jewish "demand" towards self determination in 1988, aka a State of Israel - therefore both having enacted e.g. Hamas - since the latter does not recognize Israels right aka demand, as long as it is withheld from the Palestinians.

As such both sides will keep terrorizing and killing each other - however IMO it is only a matter of time (within the next 10 years) for "dirty bombs" to be available to radical Islamic groups. What I fear is that they won't just use them against Israel - thus "solving" the Israel-Palestinian issue, but also against those countries having supported the Zionist-Nazi policy.

This "strategy"would be nothing new - since this is exactly as to what e.g. Black September and all it's radical Islamic followups had already initiated from 1970 onward. So far having culminated in 9/11. and the creation of the ISIS horde.

It is therefore IMO - not just simply about Israel, and what these radical Zionist want - but about our own survival.

Russia isn't and won't be using nukes against Ukraine - since they have common sense - one can't expect common sense from a radical Islamist nor from a radical Zionist = see Roudy and his ilk. Right down to Jewish members of parliament - forwarding to nuke Gaza.

As I have already stated in other related threads - far more non-Jews, have been the global victims of Islamic terror then Jews. As such "we" have/are already paying the price, for supporting the Zionist policy. The USA has spend US$ 8 trillion to combat Islamic terror - with absolutely no viable result - And then some Netanyahu comes along - telling the world, Israel will wipe out Hamas and Gaza - and therefore end Islamic terror

Zzzz…do you actually think people would bother reading all that nonsense and drivel?

 

[Roudy]

Hamas kicked of the present IDF retaliation, on October 7th 2023, not the conflict (latest in 1948) as such - but people like you will never get it.

Yes, Hamas kicked off the ass kicking they and the depraved Palestinains are now receiving. So shut the hell up. This is not going to stop until Hamas is wiped off the face of the earth.

 

[ESay]

It isn't about "reestablishing" a 1947 or 1967 border - since these borders are only relevant in regards to Israels "existing" neighbor States.
It's about "Israel" aka the Zionists to recognize/accept that the Palestinians have the same right towards self-determination as the Zionist solely claim and reserve only for themselves, since the day they forcefully created themselves a State of Israel in 1948, via ethnic cleansing.

This is what I meant by stating - Israels government needs to reflect onto the territorial and population distribution history of the 1947 UN Partition plan. As a general requirement, before any meaningful discussions can take place. And not, "we exist", you guys don't" and we will keep occupying your remaining lands.

The exact same situation is presently reflected by the Russian-Ukrainian war.
Russia is stating "we exist" we do not recognize a Ukrainian right to exist - the big difference is that the Ukrainians have more to offer then a band of "freedom-fighters" armed with AK-47's and plastic explosives. And just as Israel is not willing to return illegal occupied and annexed territory - neither is Russia, nor is it willing to reflect onto the 1990 territorial and population distribution in regards to meaningful negotiations.

However Russia/Putin faces condemnation, (IMO rightfully), whilst Israel arrogantly demands support by the UN and gets unconditional support by the USA.

The PLO has recognized Israels and as such the Jewish "demand" towards self determination in 1988, aka a State of Israel - therefore both having enacted e.g. Hamas - since the latter does not recognize Israels right aka demand, as long as it is withheld from the Palestinians.

As such both sides will keep terrorizing and killing each other - however IMO it is only a matter of time (within the next 10 years) for "dirty bombs" to be available to radical Islamic groups. What I fear is that they won't just use them against Israel - thus "solving" the Israel-Palestinian issue, but also against those countries having supported the Zionist-Nazi policy.

This "strategy"would be nothing new - since this is exactly as to what e.g. Black September and all it's radical Islamic followups had already initiated from 1970 onward. So far having culminated in 9/11. and the creation of the ISIS horde.

It is therefore IMO - not just simply about Israel, and what these radical Zionist want - but about our own survival.

Russia isn't and won't be using nukes against Ukraine - since they have common sense - one can't expect common sense from a radical Islamist nor from a radical Zionist = see Roudy and his ilk. Right down to Jewish members of parliament - forwarding to nuke Gaza.

As I have already stated in other related threads - far more non-Jews, have been the global victims of Islamic terror then Jews. As such "we" have/are already paying the price, for supporting the Zionist policy. The USA has spend US$ 8 trillion to combat Islamic terror - with absolutely no viable result - And then some Netanyahu comes along - telling the world, Israel will wipe out Hamas and Gaza - and therefore end Islamic terror

Well, what can be said about that? As one Russian on this forum used to repeat - the might is a right. Doesn't matter at all how many condemnations from the UN, European Council, Arab League etc etc will be issued, if any. As long as Russia and Israel feel the strength and ability to supply manpower, hardware and money into their military operations, their respective military operations will go on.

These wars are so different, but at the same time are so similar that it will take another thread for comparing them. We won't do that here.

But yes, the main concern is not these conflicts per se, but what impact they will have on the regional or even global stability. I have a feeling that the Russia-Ukraine war has passed its peak in the terms of global or regional 'influence', and is turning into a purely local war. It may escalate, or not. The time will show.

While the war in Gaza, again in my feelings, is only a first stage in something more large-scale, something in comparison with which even Iraqi and Afghan campaigns will pale. It seems that at this stage a regional war has been avoided. But what will be on the second stage and when it will be, who knows.

And this war in the ME is much more complicated that the Ukraine war. You can't allow Israel to lose, you can't allow Israel to win, you can't offer any peace solution acceptable for the both sides, you can't allow Iran to strengthen its proxies in the region, you can't allow a regional war to happen there to fight these proxies. Far too many 'can't'. And too much depends on the US. I hope they will be wise enough not to choose the W's 'cowboy style'.

 

[Kruska]

Doesn't matter at all how many condemnations from the UN, European Council, Arab League etc etc will be issued, if any. As long as Russia and Israel feel the strength and ability to supply manpower, hardware and money into their military operations, their respective military operations will go on.

You sure?

IMO if not for those condemnations and sanctions/embargoes - Putin's dream/vision towards Ukraine might very well have already become certain reality.

The only thing that allows Israel to maintain it's Zionist political agenda - is solely the Veto right of the USA.
However a general condemnation towards Israels Zionist agenda - resulting in sanctions and embargoes - totally independent of US policy, would certainly "force" Israel to adapt a moderate policy.

It's essentially this "Holocaust guilt&pity syndrome" that is keeping e.g. EU member-states at bay - but that is presently clearly changing and might very well be the key to solving this conflict, before it inevitably will spin out of control.

 

[MJB12741]

Early on all Israel asked for to stop the ground invasion was for Hamas to release all hostages. Hamas chose to disregard the request & allow Israel to have to continue on killing Palestinians.

 

[ESay]

You sure?

IMO if not for those condemnations and sanctions/embargoes - Putin's dream/vision towards Ukraine might very well have already become certain reality.

The only thing that allows Israel to maintain it's Zionist political agenda - is solely the Veto right of the USA.
However a general condemnation towards Israels Zionist agenda - resulting in sanctions and embargoes - totally independent of US policy, would certainly "force" Israel to adapt a moderate policy.

It's essentially this "Holocaust guilt&pity syndrome" that is keeping e.g. EU member-states at bay - but that is presently clearly changing and might very well be the key to solving this conflict, before it inevitably will spin out of control.

I think yes. What prevented Putin from reaching his goals in Ukraine, as for now, was not sanctions and condemnations. But another things. Though, sanctions are necessary in a long-term period. But they are the result of 'national' decisions; international organizations such as the UN had nothing to do with that.

The Israeli-Arab issue is much more complicated than the Russian-Ukrainian one. And if the latter one may require some 'easy' solutions, the former one doesn't have solutions at all, it seems.

Yes, I think that the support of Israel will be declining in the West over the time. Fewer and fewer people will be feeling the 'Holocaust guilt', Israel more and more shifting to the 'right', 'bantustanization' etc.

 

[Shusha]

You can't allow Israel to lose, you can't allow Israel to win, you can't offer any peace solution acceptable for the both sides, you can't allow Iran to strengthen its proxies in the region, you can't allow a regional war to happen there to fight these proxies. Far too many 'can't'. And too much depends on the US. I hope they will be wise enough not to choose the W's 'cowboy style'.

The Israeli perspective, following the events of October 7 and the response globally to those events, is that there is no possibility of peace with the Palestinians. Israel MUST win. And we are not discussing only this specific engagement in Gaza.

 

[ESay]

The Israeli perspective, following the events of October 7 and the response globally to those events, is that there is no possibility of peace with the Palestinians. Israel MUST win. And we are not discussing only this specific engagement in Gaza.

Okay, Israel must win in Gaza. Then what is next? Israel must win in the West Bank, in Lebanon, in Syria. Then in Iran. Isn't it too bold to assume that a nation of 10 millions can conquer the Middle East?

 

[Shusha]

Okay, Israel must win in Gaza. Then what is next? Israel must win in the West Bank, in Lebanon, in Syria. Then in Iran. Isn't it too bold to assume that a nation of 10 millions can conquer the Middle East?

Conquer? Hmmm. Why do you choose that terminology?

 

[Kruska]

Conquer? Hmmm. Why do you choose that terminology?

Because it is the correct terminology, for a group of people waging war onto others, driving them off, robbing and annexing their lands. Just as they had already done some 3000 years ago.

 

[Shusha]

Because it is the correct terminology, for a group of people waging war onto others, driving them off, robbing and annexing their lands. Just as they had already done some 3000 years ago.

Oh. So what would be the correct terminology for returning to one's homeland that you were driven off and robbed of? Resistance, right?

 

[Kruska]

I think yes. What prevented Putin from reaching his goals in Ukraine, as for now, was not sanctions and condemnations. But another things. Though, sanctions are necessary in a long-term period. But they are the result of 'national' decisions; international organizations such as the UN had nothing to do with that.

The Israeli-Arab issue is much more complicated than the Russian-Ukrainian one. And if the latter one may require some 'easy' solutions, the former one doesn't have solutions at all, it seems.

Yes, I think that the support of Israel will be declining in the West over the time. Fewer and fewer people will be feeling the 'Holocaust guilt', Israel more and more shifting to the 'right', 'bantustanization' etc.

I would state that you are very wrong or at minimum totally underestimate these condemnations and sanctions in regards to Russia. If not for UN, EU, NATO members sanctions - any country would be free to supply to Russia as to whatever they need. Especially modern military related stuff. Not to mention Russia's own export income via trade. Russia is only able to hold onto its gains - due to being able to sacrifice 3-4 times the amount of men then Ukraine. (for how long?).

As for Israel - their entire economy (aka existence) depends onto free-trade and EU (especially Germany) favorite and subsidized trade agreements. Without that, their goods are non-competitive on the world market. Not to mention those billions they receive every year from the USA, and Israeli companies investing into other countries economies - foremost via shareholding and investment funds. Thus freezing Israeli assets in foreign countries - and the entire Israeli cash-flow is gone.

As long as Israeli's are able to make a good living - why should they oppose their Zionist government - or be willing to negotiate on reasonable terms with the Palestinians? On the contra - the world since 1948 till yesterday, has supported knowingly or unknowingly the Zionist policy.

Imagine Nazis having been supported by the world - especially the USA for nearly 75 years - in their quest to "protect" Germans in Europe and foremost to regain territory that they used to own, control and reign over some 2000 years ago (promised to them by Wotan - later by the Roman Church) before these cursed Romans, Huns, Magyars, Mongols, Swedes, French, Polish, Czech, British, etc. etc. stole it away from them, murdering and persecuting them, and thus forcing millions of Germans to immigrate to the USA and elsewhere.

And upon Germany "rightfully" displacing millions of Poles - these damn Arabs ahh.... French and British even declared war upon Germany and attacked them, those "Bastards". Luckily the Nazis were able to beat them off - but these Polish and French animals keep forming resistance groups murdering innocent Germans, incl. women and kids. But thank God the world is turning a blind eye and the USA keeps sending billions. The USA also immediately recognized Germany's annexation of the Poland Heights, the annexation of Sudetenland (parts of Czechoslovakia - aka Southern Lebanon) and that Germany's new capital will be Prague.

The German "Holy" Roman Empire

- it's obvious to Nazis, that Germans have a God given right to reclaim this territory and to protect it's people against those terrorist bastards and neighbor counties trying to deny it to them, and even murdering German civilians.

And that's exactly, as to what Zionism is about.

And therefore they need to be sanctioned and embargoed.

 

[Kruska]

Oh. So what would be the correct terminology for returning to one's homeland that you were driven off and robbed of? Resistance, right?

It's termed: History Revanschism

re·vanch·ism
A policy of seeking to retaliate, especially to recover lost territory

Revanchism, from the French revanche or “revenge”, is the will to reverse territorial losses following war or social upheaval. The term originated in the 1870s, after the Franco Prussian War, for French nationalists who wanted to revenge the defeat and the reparations extracted by Germany, and to reclaim the lost territories of Alsace-Lorraine.