When will we put LGBTQ issues behind us.?

[Katzndogz]

If you open up a public accommodation business, then you'd better be prepared to serve the "public." That includes "the gays."

Chris, I hope you know that I'm not in this conversation because I am in any way anti-gay. This is a property rights issue. The store is the property of the baker. The ingredients are the property of the baker. The baker's own body is his property.

It's a simple matter of liberty. A person ought to be free to use his property as he wishes, as long as he does so peacefully and doesn't violate the property of others.

So a property owner can ignore health and safety laws?

Pretty much.

 

[bodecea]

^^^

IOW, when you open your "public accommodation" business, you have already agreed to follow the laws in your respective states. You don't just get to open up a business and then break the law. If you find that you cannot abide by the law and NOT discriminate when it comes to your business dealings, then you have no business offering "services" to the public at large. GAY people are part of the "public."

So 1% of the population gets to dictate what the rest of us can and cannot do if they are a "protected class", even if no actual harm can be shown?

A contract to provide services for an event is not a public accommodation.

Now I see where all these idiot college students with their micro-aggressions are coming from, people like you were the start, and they are the flood.

Jews are about the same % of American citizens....can you show us where it's ok to discriminate against your fellow Americans because they are only "X" percentage?

 

[bodecea]

Ensuring that all people are treated equally when it comes to business dealings is nothing like setting up "death camps." Quit with the hyperbole and drama.

Ensuring that all people are treated equally is a fundamental violation of every person's right to choose who they associate with.

ONLY if it is applied to your personal dealings. Not when it comes to business dealings, and these laws have been established for years and years now. Sorry, you lose.

"Established" doesn't mean right. History has shown us this, over and over again. Business dealings are personal dealings.

So you don't have to follow laws on health and safety with your business dealings?

Would a health law that bans kosher slaughter be constitutional?

How would that make sense....kosher slaughter is quite healthy....or do you know something the rest of us don't know?

 

[bodecea]

The law protects EVERYONE equally. Therefore, the law is not discriminatory. Some black store owner could not discriminate against me because I'm white or a female either.

Are you people really THIS fucking stupid? I find this hard to believe.

Look, you can whine, bitch and moan all day. It doesn't change the FACT that if we allowed "discriminatory business practices" it would create a HUGE cluster fuck.

It's easier to have the law apply to everyone on an equality basis, as they are recognized by law, and ignore you ignorant dummies.

We allow "no shoes, no shirts, no service".

Because of safety and health laws. And that is for EVERYONE...it doesn't say "No shoes if you are Black...no shirts if you are Muslim...no service if you are Gay".

Free footers are being discriminated against!

Well, that sounds like another law you can actively work to get repealed then. Right after you get off your butt and actively do something about repealing PA laws.......or are you still just whining about it?

 

[bodecea]

If you open up a public accommodation business, then you'd better be prepared to serve the "public." That includes "the gays."

Chris, I hope you know that I'm not in this conversation because I am in any way anti-gay. This is a property rights issue. The store is the property of the baker. The ingredients are the property of the baker. The baker's own body is his property.

It's a simple matter of liberty. A person ought to be free to use his property as he wishes, as long as he does so peacefully and doesn't violate the property of others.

So a property owner can ignore health and safety laws?

Pretty much.

Er....no.

 

[Stephanie]

I'm sure the Majority is so over it all. get on with your lives

 

[ChrisL]

I'm sure the Majority is so over it all. get on with your lives

A tweet? Oy. Lol.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

^^^

IOW, when you open your "public accommodation" business, you have already agreed to follow the laws in your respective states. You don't just get to open up a business and then break the law. If you find that you cannot abide by the law and NOT discriminate when it comes to your business dealings, then you have no business offering "services" to the public at large. GAY people are part of the "public."

So 1% of the population gets to dictate what the rest of us can and cannot do if they are a "protected class", even if no actual harm can be shown?

A contract to provide services for an event is not a public accommodation.

Now I see where all these idiot college students with their micro-aggressions are coming from, people like you were the start, and they are the flood.

Jews are about the same % of American citizens....can you show us where it's ok to discriminate against your fellow Americans because they are only "X" percentage?

The Constitution limits government, not the private transactions between citizens. I defy you to prove otherwise.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Should a gay baker be forced to serve an event they find offensive?

Depends on the State and the basis of their offense.

Well, no. They no longer have the right to disagree. A gay caterer, by law, must service a straight pride event. They can't discriminate against the event organizers because of their sexual orientation.

It's stupid that the state can force you to engage in trade with someone you don't want to.

It depends on the interaction. If its commerce, the regulation of it within a State is most *definitely* the State government's business. As regulating intrastate commerce is unquestioningly a power of the States.

Commerce is the state government's business? Why?

Intrastate commerce is a power retained by the State. Thus, its their business if they decide it is and it doesn't violate rights. See Article 1, Section 8 Clause 3....along with the 10th amendment. Its perfectly constitutional.

As long as no fraud or violence has occurred, and as long as the state gets it's extortion money, er, I mean taxes, why should LGBTQ issues by any concern of the state?

Because they decide it is.

Let's hope they don't decide it's double-plus good to crucify all redheads. Because I guess if they decided to do so, that law would be just too.

The rights that are protected by a State aren't limited to federally protected rights. Many States can and do have far more extensive protections for people than the federal government recognizes. And that's totally within the power of a People of a State to do.

Federal Protections establish the baseline minimum of rights. Not the maximum. And if the people of State decide that you have a right to be free from discrimination based on sexual orientation when conducting acts of commerce, they have every authority to protect that right.

The only thing that could practically trump them would be federal amendment......or a violation of federal rights. Neither of which are an issue with PA laws.

The government should, you know...govern. Not involve itself in the peaceful, private interactions of people. And it certainly shouldn't conscript the bodies of people and force them to perform acts to which they are opposed.

As long as people aren't defrauding, threatening, or harming others, they should be free to do what they want.

That's bullshit. People need to be protected from discrimination.

Discrimination doesn't harm anyone's person or property. How can it be a crime?

You'd be singing a different tune if it was age related discrimination, I'm sure.

No, I wouldn't.

People are assholes and stupid.

I agree. Except for you. You're not.

Discrimination doesn't hurt anyone?? Are you saying that with a straight face bubba??

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

We are fresh off of a victory in Georgia where the governor vetoed a homophobic and quite frankly stupid bill that targeted LGBT people in the name of ”religious liberty” He caved to pressure from local businesses while never acknowledging the true intent of the bill.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/religious-liberty-bill-could-get-surprise-vote-wed/nqmkF/


However, the anti-equality forces are still hard at work in the south and elsewhere. They are spending countless hours and millions of dollars that could be spent on addressing the real- instead of imagined problems facing the nation. Cases in point:

North Carolina:

http://www.hrc.org/blog/voices-of-north-carolina-the-transgender-community-speaks-out

This week, HRC is lifting up the voices of North Carolinians whose lives are affected by the dangerous and discriminatory bill (HB 2) that North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory signed into law last week.

The first of those stories is from Madeline Goss, an openly transgender woman from Raleigh and former HRC Board of Governors member. Last week, she testified about the harmful impact HB 2 would have on her life and the transgender community.

“I can't use the men's room. I won't go back to the men's room. It is unsafe for me there. People like me die in there," Goss said.

On March 23, Governor McCrory signed into law an outrageous and unprecedented anti-LGBT bill that eliminates existing municipal non-discrimination protections for LGBT people; prevents such provisions from being passed by cities in the future; and forces transgender students in public schools to use restrooms and other facilities inconsistent with their gender identity, putting 4.5 billion dollars in federal funding under Title IX at risk. Read more about how this bill puts federal funding at risk here.

And South Carolina:

http://www.hrc.org/blog/south-carolina-senate-committee-advances-anti-marriage-equality-bill

Last week, a handful of conservative state Senators in South Carolina voted to advance S.31, a bill calling on the US Congress to amend the United States Constitution to allow states to roll back marriage equality on a state by state basis, but ultimately the bill has little chance of passing this session.

S.31 was introduced last year by conservative Senator Larry Grooms, but the bill has been stuck in limbo in the Senate Judiciary Committee since last April. Finally, after months of skipping over the bill - a clear sign that committee members have no appetite for it - S.31 was amended and advanced with a vote of 17 to 3. HRC thanks the three Democrats on the committee, Senators Sabb, Bright-Matthews, and Hutto, for voting against this bill.

Seeking to undermine the historic marriage equality ruling last year by the Supreme Court of the United States ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges, S.31 calls on Congress to host a constitutional convention to amend the Constitution of the United States to allow all states to determine their own definitions of marriage. If the Constitution were to be amended in this way, it would give states the ability to roll back marriage equality if they oppose it,, effectively stripping away years of progress and placing millions of same-sex marriages in jeopardy.

Where will it end? When can we get over it and move on to other things? To come together as a nation and, yes, make America Great by being a nation that is all inclusive and accepting of all people? When can we get past this religious and fear based bigotry and start treating our neighbors with the dignity that they deserve? When!!??

I have moved forward, gay marriage is legal. I treat gays like I treat anyone else. I don't approve of their lifestyle choice however it is not my business. I treat them with respect, I don't accept their lifestyle. I don't discriminate against gays. It is their choice to live the way they want.

I have the right to live my life as does a gay person.

When did you make the "lifestyle choice" to be heterosexual?

 

[Centinel]

If you open up a public accommodation business, then you'd better be prepared to serve the "public." That includes "the gays."

Chris, I hope you know that I'm not in this conversation because I am in any way anti-gay. This is a property rights issue. The store is the property of the baker. The ingredients are the property of the baker. The baker's own body is his property.

It's a simple matter of liberty. A person ought to be free to use his property as he wishes, as long as he does so peacefully and doesn't violate the property of others.

So a property owner can ignore health and safety laws?

Nope. Nobody can ignore the law.

 

[FJO]

We are fresh off of a victory in Georgia where the governor vetoed a homophobic and quite frankly stupid bill that targeted LGBT people in the name of ”religious liberty” He caved to pressure from local businesses while never acknowledging the true intent of the bill.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/religious-liberty-bill-could-get-surprise-vote-wed/nqmkF/


However, the anti-equality forces are still hard at work in the south and elsewhere. They are spending countless hours and millions of dollars that could be spent on addressing the real- instead of imagined problems facing the nation. Cases in point:

North Carolina:

http://www.hrc.org/blog/voices-of-north-carolina-the-transgender-community-speaks-out

This week, HRC is lifting up the voices of North Carolinians whose lives are affected by the dangerous and discriminatory bill (HB 2) that North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory signed into law last week.

The first of those stories is from Madeline Goss, an openly transgender woman from Raleigh and former HRC Board of Governors member. Last week, she testified about the harmful impact HB 2 would have on her life and the transgender community.

“I can't use the men's room. I won't go back to the men's room. It is unsafe for me there. People like me die in there," Goss said.

On March 23, Governor McCrory signed into law an outrageous and unprecedented anti-LGBT bill that eliminates existing municipal non-discrimination protections for LGBT people; prevents such provisions from being passed by cities in the future; and forces transgender students in public schools to use restrooms and other facilities inconsistent with their gender identity, putting 4.5 billion dollars in federal funding under Title IX at risk. Read more about how this bill puts federal funding at risk here.

And South Carolina:

http://www.hrc.org/blog/south-carolina-senate-committee-advances-anti-marriage-equality-bill

Last week, a handful of conservative state Senators in South Carolina voted to advance S.31, a bill calling on the US Congress to amend the United States Constitution to allow states to roll back marriage equality on a state by state basis, but ultimately the bill has little chance of passing this session.

S.31 was introduced last year by conservative Senator Larry Grooms, but the bill has been stuck in limbo in the Senate Judiciary Committee since last April. Finally, after months of skipping over the bill - a clear sign that committee members have no appetite for it - S.31 was amended and advanced with a vote of 17 to 3. HRC thanks the three Democrats on the committee, Senators Sabb, Bright-Matthews, and Hutto, for voting against this bill.

Seeking to undermine the historic marriage equality ruling last year by the Supreme Court of the United States ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges, S.31 calls on Congress to host a constitutional convention to amend the Constitution of the United States to allow all states to determine their own definitions of marriage. If the Constitution were to be amended in this way, it would give states the ability to roll back marriage equality if they oppose it,, effectively stripping away years of progress and placing millions of same-sex marriages in jeopardy.

Where will it end? When can we get over it and move on to other things? To come together as a nation and, yes, make America Great by being a nation that is all inclusive and accepting of all people? When can we get past this religious and fear based bigotry and start treating our neighbors with the dignity that they deserve? When!!??

A good time and place would be when a Lesbian couple have their child they created in the traditional way.

Or a gay couple.

Or a transgender couple.

 

[Katzndogz]

Property owners ignore health and safety laws constantly. Ohhhh. You mean business owners. You should have said so.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

We are fresh off of a victory in Georgia where the governor vetoed a homophobic and quite frankly stupid bill that targeted LGBT people in the name of ”religious liberty” He caved to pressure from local businesses while never acknowledging the true intent of the bill.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/religious-liberty-bill-could-get-surprise-vote-wed/nqmkF/


However, the anti-equality forces are still hard at work in the south and elsewhere. They are spending countless hours and millions of dollars that could be spent on addressing the real- instead of imagined problems facing the nation. Cases in point:

North Carolina:

http://www.hrc.org/blog/voices-of-north-carolina-the-transgender-community-speaks-out

This week, HRC is lifting up the voices of North Carolinians whose lives are affected by the dangerous and discriminatory bill (HB 2) that North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory signed into law last week.

The first of those stories is from Madeline Goss, an openly transgender woman from Raleigh and former HRC Board of Governors member. Last week, she testified about the harmful impact HB 2 would have on her life and the transgender community.

“I can't use the men's room. I won't go back to the men's room. It is unsafe for me there. People like me die in there," Goss said.

On March 23, Governor McCrory signed into law an outrageous and unprecedented anti-LGBT bill that eliminates existing municipal non-discrimination protections for LGBT people; prevents such provisions from being passed by cities in the future; and forces transgender students in public schools to use restrooms and other facilities inconsistent with their gender identity, putting 4.5 billion dollars in federal funding under Title IX at risk. Read more about how this bill puts federal funding at risk here.

And South Carolina:

http://www.hrc.org/blog/south-carolina-senate-committee-advances-anti-marriage-equality-bill

Last week, a handful of conservative state Senators in South Carolina voted to advance S.31, a bill calling on the US Congress to amend the United States Constitution to allow states to roll back marriage equality on a state by state basis, but ultimately the bill has little chance of passing this session.

S.31 was introduced last year by conservative Senator Larry Grooms, but the bill has been stuck in limbo in the Senate Judiciary Committee since last April. Finally, after months of skipping over the bill - a clear sign that committee members have no appetite for it - S.31 was amended and advanced with a vote of 17 to 3. HRC thanks the three Democrats on the committee, Senators Sabb, Bright-Matthews, and Hutto, for voting against this bill.

Seeking to undermine the historic marriage equality ruling last year by the Supreme Court of the United States ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges, S.31 calls on Congress to host a constitutional convention to amend the Constitution of the United States to allow all states to determine their own definitions of marriage. If the Constitution were to be amended in this way, it would give states the ability to roll back marriage equality if they oppose it,, effectively stripping away years of progress and placing millions of same-sex marriages in jeopardy.

Where will it end? When can we get over it and move on to other things? To come together as a nation and, yes, make America Great by being a nation that is all inclusive and accepting of all people? When can we get past this religious and fear based bigotry and start treating our neighbors with the dignity that they deserve? When!!??

I'll tell you when.. When there are no legislated protected dicks in my daughter's locker room... That's when...

First of all, if those transgender people still have dicks, they have no interest in your daughter. But more importantly, and what seems to be beyond your intellectual capacity to grasp, is that the issues that I raised go far beyond transgender and locker room matters.

When one of them with one enters a restroom, etc. where one of my daughters happens to be, they're telling me they have no interest in exiting.

Why are you people focusing on bathrooms so much? You mind must be in the toilet. It's a stupid made up issue. A transwoman who identifies as female is not threat to anyone. And in a bathroom, woman use stalls and no one will know the difference. There is much more to LGBT rights that bathrooms,

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

When will we put queer "issues" behind us?

When the deviants shut the fuck up and stop rubbing their perverse bullshit in everyone else's face.

Amazing how less than %4 of the population can get so much attention.

When will we put queer "issues" behind us?

When the deviants shut the fuck up and stop rubbing their perverse bullshit in everyone else's face.

Amazing how less than %4 of the population can get so much attention.

The amount and the depth of bigotry and stupidity that this thread as brought out is truly astounding !!

 

[Centinel]

Depends on the State and the basis of their offense.

Well, no. They no longer have the right to disagree. A gay caterer, by law, must service a straight pride event. They can't discriminate against the event organizers because of their sexual orientation.

It's stupid that the state can force you to engage in trade with someone you don't want to.

Commerce is the state government's business? Why?

Intrastate commerce is a power retained by the State. Thus, its their business if they decide it is and it doesn't violate rights. See Article 1, Section 8 Clause 3....along with the 10th amendment. Its perfectly constitutional.

As long as no fraud or violence has occurred, and as long as the state gets it's extortion money, er, I mean taxes, why should LGBTQ issues by any concern of the state?

Because they decide it is.

Let's hope they don't decide it's double-plus good to crucify all redheads. Because I guess if they decided to do so, that law would be just too.

The rights that are protected by a State aren't limited to federally protected rights. Many States can and do have far more extensive protections for people than the federal government recognizes. And that's totally within the power of a People of a State to do.

Federal Protections establish the baseline minimum of rights. Not the maximum. And if the people of State decide that you have a right to be free from discrimination based on sexual orientation when conducting acts of commerce, they have every authority to protect that right.

The only thing that could practically trump them would be federal amendment......or a violation of federal rights. Neither of which are an issue with PA laws.

The government should, you know...govern. Not involve itself in the peaceful, private interactions of people. And it certainly shouldn't conscript the bodies of people and force them to perform acts to which they are opposed.

As long as people aren't defrauding, threatening, or harming others, they should be free to do what they want.

That's bullshit. People need to be protected from discrimination.

Discrimination doesn't harm anyone's person or property. How can it be a crime?

You'd be singing a different tune if it was age related discrimination, I'm sure.

No, I wouldn't.

People are assholes and stupid.

I agree. Except for you. You're not.

Discrimination doesn't hurt anyone?? Are you saying that with a straight face bubba??

I said, "Discrimination doesn't harm anyone's person or property. How can it be a crime?". And yes, with a straight face.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

As somebody pointed out earlier in the thread it will die out over time. It is generally a generational thing.
The constitutional issue is a red herring.
You only have to read some of the comments on this thread to see that the opponents of decency do not see gay people as "normal". From that it is a short hop to denying them the rights that everybody else enjoys.
Once you have de-humanised people then you can pretty much do anything you want to them.I believe that there are several historical precedents to that.
The religious angle is laughable. The Bible has harsh words for many things but I cant recall adulterers being refused service in a cake shop. Its just bigotry.
I suspect that these people have led sheltered lives in out of the way places. Gays from those places have probably gravitated to more diverse communities to escape the poison.
I dont know if it is the same in the US but in the UK we have laws to root out these people from positions in which they can exercise power over Gay people.
Should homophobic teachers be trusted with educating our youth ? Absolutely not.

Just what America needs - a lecture from a British asshole who has a Muslim in every nook and cranny in what was ONCE a great nation -
Your fucked-up government has not only disarmed everyone, they've taxed assholes like you into oblivion. Your nation is one we DO NOT aspire to be, asshole, but thanks for your idiotic input.

He is displaying a whole lot more common sense and decency than you and most others here.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

We are fresh off of a victory in Georgia where the governor vetoed a homophobic and quite frankly stupid bill that targeted LGBT people in the name of ”religious liberty” He caved to pressure from local businesses while never acknowledging the true intent of the bill.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/religious-liberty-bill-could-get-surprise-vote-wed/nqmkF/


However, the anti-equality forces are still hard at work in the south and elsewhere. They are spending countless hours and millions of dollars that could be spent on addressing the real- instead of imagined problems facing the nation. Cases in point:


And South Carolina:

Where will it end? When can we get over it and move on to other things? To come together as a nation and, yes, make America Great by being a nation that is all inclusive and accepting of all people? When can we get past this religious and fear based bigotry and start treating our neighbors with the dignity that they deserve? When!!??

I'll tell you when.. When there are no legislated protected dicks in my daughter's locker room... That's when...

First of all, if those transgender people still have dicks, they have no interest in your daughter. But more importantly, and what seems to be beyond your intellectual capacity to grasp, is that the issues that I raised go far beyond transgender and locker room matters.

Then stop lumping LGBTQYJ issues into a single bag. You think because progress is made on "gay rights" that all these other nasty slaps in the face get to ride in for FREE? Nope.. Different issues.

I don't care if the dick is an unfortunate appendage at 15 yrs of age.. Should REMAIN in the boys room until legal age. 1/2 the "gay" teens we ever knew are now in traditional marraige..

You seem to be the one lumping things together. Are you confused about how transgender and gay are different things? You also do not seem to understand that not everyone can be neatly categorized into straight and gay, that there are many who are bi sexual( which might account for you unsourced "statistic" about gay kids who are now in "traditional" marriages, and that sexual orientation and gender identity are -and human sexuality in general- are extremely complex and may well be related.

He probably doesn't suck dicks for a living like you do to have a deep-rooted understanding of the difference between transgenders and gays.

It takes a special kind of moron to make assumptions about what another poster is, or does based on their support for LGBT folks. I'm sure that you do not have a "deep rooted understanding " ,,,or any understanding, of anything.

 

[SeniorChief_Polock]

He is displaying a whole lot more common sense and decency than you and most others here.

You get beaten by Muslims in the UK for violating Sharia Law. Of course he's displaying calmness. He's shitscared he's going to have the door of his flat knocked down and his teeth kicked in, asshole.

 

[SeniorChief_Polock]

I'm sure that you do not have a "deep rooted understanding " ,,,or any understanding, of anything.

You don't seem to have a deep rooted understanding of much more than dicks in your mouth and ass. The only crisis you face in life daily as a queer is the fear of running out of KY Jelly right between rounds of repeated anal penetration.