Where do religious folk who are climate deniers reconcile this?

[daveman]

Yes I do just like all believers.

No, you believe. You don't know for a fact. Nobody does. If it is fact, show your god to me. And please, no cop out about how i have to believe in him for him to show himself to me.

You understand nothing of the nature of faith.

 

[daveman]

I used to be a police man. I once asked a dog handler why they didn't use Doberman's as police dogs (we use German Shepherd's) because I thought them more ferocious and more likely to make an offender think twice about doing something stupid. He said they had thought about using them, but they were too smart. They point blank refused to attack anybody with a firearm.

At the end of the day, the Amazonian tribesman, if he so wished, could be shown the source of the bike and how it was made.

It's my illustration and we haven't gotten to the end of the day. I could choose lots of different ways to illustrate my point.

The point is people, not atheists, can't conceive of something that has no source or serves no purpose. What thinking component therefore do atheists lack?
And why do they fear the concept of a supreme being?

I've got a theory about that.

Militant atheists get angry at believers not because they think we're wrong, but they're afraid we're right -- and they can't tolerate the idea of a power greater than themselves.

Cnm insists believers are afraid. He's projecting his own fear.

 

[Dr Grump]

I've got a theory about that.

Militant atheists get angry at believers not because they think we're wrong, but they're afraid we're right -- and they can't tolerate the idea of a power greater than themselves.

Cnm insists believers are afraid. He's projecting his own fear.

Are you the only one in your family that believes in a god?

 

[Dr Grump]

You understand nothing of the nature of faith.

I totally understand faith. Just don't tell me your faith is fact.

 

[Dr Grump]

[

It never fails. Ask an atheist where the universe came from, how life started, and they invariable shout EVOLUTION!!

You tell me. Where did the universe come from?

 

[daveman]

And what are you? An exceptional omniscient being? No.....that would make you God, in all likelihood. Yes, he is but a mortal with a few insights and knowledge you will never ever match or even begin to know of. It's one of the the insights that makes me think I am on the right track, unlike atheists.

your appeal to authority is noted.

"I'll go with those who actually study it as opposed to some neocon denier on a messageboard."

But it's okay when you do it, huh?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I've got a theory about that.

Militant atheists get angry at believers not because they think we're wrong, but they're afraid we're right -- and they can't tolerate the idea of a power greater than themselves.

Cnm insists believers are afraid. He's projecting his own fear.

I have to agree. I extend that to all atheists, in my opinion. The idea that some supreme being may be judging you and your every act (though I personally don't believe in that sort of God) frightens and depresses the crap out of atheists, who want no one ruining their fun.
It's an extremely juvenile mind set, in my view.

 

[Dr Grump]

your appeal to authority is noted.

I'm sorry. Dos it bother you that I give more credence and have more confidence in the insights and opinions of one of earth's greatest minds than some garden variety atheists who, as far as I know, have NO special insights, genius, knowledge, etc.?
Why would I not put more value on the views of Einstein, or other brilliant minds, than yours or any other atheist whose entire "insight" is the power of disbelief?

It would be absurd if I did otherwise.

Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia

Look like one of Earth's greatest minds thought like me when it comes to a god (my bold)

Personal God
Einstein expressed his skepticism regarding the existence of an anthropomorphic God, such as the God of Abrahamic religions often describing this view as "naïve"and "childlike". In a 1947 letter he stated, "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously." In a letter to Beatrice Frohlich on 17 December 1952, Einstein stated, "The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naïve."

Prompted by his colleague L E J Brouwer , Einstein read the philosopher Eric Gutkind's book Choose Life, a discussion of the relationship between Jewish revelation and the modern world. On January 3, 1954, Einstein sent the following reply to Gutkind: "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. .... For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions." In 2018 his letter to Gutkind was sold for $2.9 million.

On 22 March 1954 Einstein received a letter from Joseph Dispentiere, an Italian immigrant who had worked as an experimental machinist in New Jersey. Dispentiere had declared himself an atheist and was disappointed by a news report which had cast Einstein as conventionally religious. Einstein replied on 24 March 1954:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

In his book Ideas and Opinions(1954) Einstein stated, "In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests." In December 1922 Einstein said the following on the idea of a saviour, "Denominational traditions I can only consider historically and psychologically; they have no other significance for me.

 

[Dr Grump]

"I'll go with those who actually study it as opposed to some neocon denier on a messageboard."

But it's okay when you do it, huh?

But they have actually studied it.

 

[daveman]

I've got a theory about that.

Militant atheists get angry at believers not because they think we're wrong, but they're afraid we're right -- and they can't tolerate the idea of a power greater than themselves.

Cnm insists believers are afraid. He's projecting his own fear.

Are you the only one in your family that believes in a god?

Two of my four siblings are atheists; the other two are Christian. I was an atheist until I was 29.

 

[daveman]

You understand nothing of the nature of faith.

I totally understand faith. Just don't tell me your faith is fact.

If you ask people to provide proof of the things they have faith in, no, you don't understand faith at all.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Look like one of Earth's greatest minds thought like me when it comes to a god (my bold)

I already said Einstein was very specific about not believing in a "personal God".
I did mention he preferred the God of Baruch Spinoza didn't I? Yeah. I did.

 

[daveman]

[

It never fails. Ask an atheist where the universe came from, how life started, and they invariable shout EVOLUTION!!

You tell me. Where did the universe come from?

It was created by God. I don't know how, or how long it took Him, or in what manner He chose to arrange for the transition from non-existence to existence.

I'll ask Him when I see Him.

 

[daveman]

I've got a theory about that.

Militant atheists get angry at believers not because they think we're wrong, but they're afraid we're right -- and they can't tolerate the idea of a power greater than themselves.

Cnm insists believers are afraid. He's projecting his own fear.

I have to agree. I extend that to all atheists, in my opinion. The idea that some supreme being may be judging you and your every act (though I personally don't believe in that sort of God) frightens and depresses the crap out of atheists, who want no one ruining their fun.
It's an extremely juvenile mind set, in my view.

Indeed. However, I have met quite a number of atheists who are respectful of others' faith, and who ask questions out of genuine curiosity. I was one of them, when I didn't believe.

However, those are in short supply, especially in this thread.

 

[daveman]

"I'll go with those who actually study it as opposed to some neocon denier on a messageboard."

But it's okay when you do it, huh?

But they have actually studied it.

But you haven't.

So you insist other people believe them...because you take their pronouncements on faith.

 

[Dr Grump]

Look like one of Earth's greatest minds thought like me when it comes to a god (my bold)

I already said Einstein was very specific about not believing in a "personal God".
I did mention he preferred the God of Baruch Spinoza didn't I? Yeah. I did.

And yet that was quoted in 1930, 25 years before he died. People change it seems. And his definition is god is a lot different from the majority of Christians or other religious folk on these boards.

 

[Dr Grump]

So you insist other people believe them...because you take their pronouncements on faith.

Apples and oranges.

 

[Dr Grump]

You understand nothing of the nature of faith.

I totally understand faith. Just don't tell me your faith is fact.

If you ask people to provide proof of the things they have faith in, no, you don't understand faith at all.

I have no problem with faith at all. I have an issue with those passing off faith as fact. Two different things....look up in your local Websters. Nowhere in any thesaurus or dictionary do I see the word faith as a synonym for fact or vice versa. Words have meanings.

 

[Dr Grump]

It was created by God. I don't know how, or how long it took Him, or in what manner He chose to arrange for the transition from non-existence to existence.

I'll ask Him when I see Him.

Fair enough

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Indeed. However, I have met quite a number of atheists who are respectful of others' faith, and who ask questions out of genuine curiosity. I was one of them, when I didn't believe.

However, those are in short supply, especially in this thread.

I agree again. In my personal experience there are a lot more a-hole atheists than the other sort but I admit that may be due to meeting most of them online, which as you know, magnifies the a-hole factor almost as a rule.

I had a friend in the Navy who was an atheist and we had many, way too many, respectful conversations about our positions.

Religion and politics...rarely does anyone change their basic views on the matter I congratulate you on changing your your views. It's the sign of an open mind.