White man shoots innocent black teen....

[Si modo]

I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.

If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.

Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?

Personally, I believe that is probable cause that he may have done something wrong worthy of investigation, but it's not probable cause that he was under the influence.

 

[Liability]

Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?

No. That would not constitute probable cause necessarily.

And I'm not arguing that the man is innocent. I have no idea what the circumstances actually were.

I'm just suggesting that acknowledging that he fired the shot is not the same thing as probable cause necessarily.

So how come its not ok to drug test the shooter, but its ok to test the dead body?

Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.

In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization. If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court. (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)

Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant.

 

[High_Gravity]

If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.

Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?

Personally, I believe that is probable cause that he may have done something wrong worthy of investigation, but it's not probable cause that he was under the influence.

I thought it was important to determine if someone was under the influence if they shot somebody? or am I completely off base here?

 

[High_Gravity]

No. That would not constitute probable cause necessarily.

And I'm not arguing that the man is innocent. I have no idea what the circumstances actually were.

I'm just suggesting that acknowledging that he fired the shot is not the same thing as probable cause necessarily.

So how come its not ok to drug test the shooter, but its ok to test the dead body?

Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.

In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization. If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court. (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)

Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant.

I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.

 

[Si modo]

Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?

Personally, I believe that is probable cause that he may have done something wrong worthy of investigation, but it's not probable cause that he was under the influence.

I thought it was important to determine if someone was under the influence if they shot somebody? or am I completely off base here?

I would think it should be standard, but I'm pretty sure there has to be some cause as it pertains to being under the influence - erratic behavior, slurring words, dosing off, lack of eye focus, etc. The probable cause has to pertain to the test.

Now, I do know that if one causes an accident in the work place, the test for substances is standard, but that is part of the work agreement.

And, to clarify to everyone again, if it were up to ME, I would lock this guy up. But, it's not up to me. It's up to a trial court while taking into consideration the local laws and taking into consideration evidence that meets a legal standard.

I want this guy to get a fair trial most of all. I have never liked the villager-with-torch attitude and I won't participate in that (not saying you are). I want the fair trial. Justice is often slow and not always right, but I will fight for the best conditions for justice.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING for posting while needing sobriety

This could be you...

Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant.

I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.

..don't drink while posting.

 

[Emma]

So the police thought Zimmerman was white. Interesting.

More interesting is that Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, didn't one of the "witnesses" claim he saw someone in a white shirt beating someone?

Also, Martin was face down with his hands under his body. Sounds kind of execution style.

The address zimmerman gives dispatcher in his call is 1111 Retreat View Circle ... yet he and Martin are found in the grass between the buildings at 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle.

"I responded to 2821 Retreat View Circle and exited my marked Sandford police vehicle and began to canvas the area. As I walked in between the buildings I observed a white male, wearing a red jacket and blue jeans. I also observed a black male, wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, laying face down in the grass."

(note that officer Ricardo Ayala also refers to zimmerman as a 'white male')

Georgie called from 1111 Retreat View Circle ... and ended up in the grassy courtyard behind 2821 Retreat View Circle. But nah --- he didn't follow Martin.

lol

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

2821 Retreat View Circle - Google Maps

We aren't talking about a very large distance.

According to jimwhathisname, Zimmerman's claim was that he was "attacked from behind" as he entered his vehicle and he did not follow Martin, and that he'd merely exited his vehicle to see the street sign (although zimmerman states in his call that he's following Martin). His call was from 1111 Retreat View Circle; the two were found behind 2821 ... in a grassy courtyard between buildings, not on the street. No matter how far 1111 is from 2821, it's clear that zimmerman DID follow Martin to that area where he was shot.

 

[Emma]

well hell ... I tried to post the directions from point A (1111) to points B and C (2821 and also 1231 twin trees), but it only showed the one address. From either, it's about 2/10 of a mile, and it's not a straight shot.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?

So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation.

it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.

The reports say Zimmerman was attacked and had a bad bruise on his face from being hit in the face with a soda can. A witness said the young man was on top of him beating the older man. That tells you the kid wasn't innocent in this either and there was a confrontation.


The chief listened to what Zimmerman said, there are reports that Zimmerman had wounds on him, and there is an eyewitness who saw him on the ground before he shot the kid.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/


According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

---

According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: young man: "why you following me?" - Hispanic man: "what are you doing around here?" - a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.

so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.

where is the crime?

 

[Emma]

Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?

The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.

This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.

Ooopsy.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?

The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.

This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.

Ooopsy.

So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

USMB legal experts are failing to perform well.

 

[High_Gravity]

SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING for posting while needing sobriety

This could be you...

Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant.

I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.

..don't drink while posting.

Why the hell not?

 

[High_Gravity]

Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?

The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.

This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.

Ooopsy.

So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?

I think alot of people assumed he was white because of his last name, if his name was Juan Gonzalez nobody would have assumed that.

 

[Liability]

So how come its not ok to drug test the shooter, but its ok to test the dead body?

Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.

In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization. If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court. (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)

Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant.

I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.

No. It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.

Simple hypothetical. Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children. You happened to have quick access to a gun. Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall.

Did you commit a crime?

Nope.

Should you be arrested?

Nope.

The point is: not only is self defense or defense of another in some situations a legal defense to a criminal charge, sometimes it even suffices to avoid any arrest in the first place.

 

[High_Gravity]

Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.

In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization. If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court. (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)

Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant.

I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.

No. It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.

Simple hypothetical. Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children. You happened to have quick access to a gun. Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall.

Did you commit a crime?

Nope.

Should you be arrested?

Nope.

Thats not the same thing though, Zimmerman was not saving anyone from terrorists.

 

[Emma]

Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?

The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.

This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.

Ooopsy.

So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?

People were complaining that the media referred to zimmerman as "white" ... they simply got that from the police reports.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING for posting while needing sobriety

This could be you...

I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.

..don't drink while posting.

Why the hell not?

mark as evidence #17

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.

This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.

Ooopsy.

So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?

People were complaining that the media referred to zimmerman as "white" ... they simply got that from the police reports.

Zimmerman is not white is he?