Who are the Israelis?

[RoccoR]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ Ria_Longhorn, et al,

This is a good question.

BLUF: Maybe never... But clearly now is NOT the time.

I know the feeling to charge towards the goal. But it is NOT necessary for MK Michal Shir, Likud Party, to throw gasoline on the fire → just because you have great firefighters.

Institute Sovereignty

(COMMENT)

For all intent and purposes, this would essentially absorb the remainder of the West Bank.

This is adding an unnecessary accelerant to an already politically volatile and destabilizing regional security issue. It is not a step forward towards peace, but several steps backward in the direction of a deepening conflict.

If not now, when?

(COMMENT)

For each action and piece of legislation, one has to think it through. One example (a "Critical" example) is that:

Right now, the charge of "Apartheid" is baseless. Right now, Israel does not wall-off elements of its own citizenry. But once you make Judea and Samaria sovereign under the State of Israel, everyone in that territory becomes an Israeli Citizen, with all the privileges that go with the citizenry. That means the Border security boundaries now in place, have to come down, checkpoints must be lifted, and the settlements on the West Bank must now be opened. IF not, THEN you have the case of "apartheid."

In placing Judea and Samaria under the umbrella of Israeli Sovereignty, you have implemented a One-State Solution and dropped any restrictions on the "Right of Return." Every single Arab Palestinian become an Israeli Citizen; Good Guys, Bad Guys, Refugee, and The indifferent- "Everyone!"

The State of Israel, must then immediately bring the social and public services up to standard in the Territory. Whatever social security benefits are normal for today's citizens would not be made applicable to the 770K+ refugees in the West Bank and every single citizen in Gaza.

And the list of changes just goes on and on...

(QUESTION)

Is the State of Israel ready for that (₪)?

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime; (RS/ICC)​

Every single Terrorist today is your fellow neighbor tomorrow.

(MY OPINION)

This "BILL" Proposal is a pro-Arab Palestinian move and MK Michal Shir becomes an advocate for a One-State Solution.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ Ria_Longhorn, et al,

This is a good question.

BLUF: Maybe never... But clearly now is NOT the time.

I know the feeling to charge towards the goal. But it is NOT necessary for MK Michal Shir, Likud Party, to throw gasoline on the fire → just because you have great firefighters.

Institute Sovereignty

(COMMENT)

For all intent and purposes, this would essentially absorb the remainder of the West Bank.

This is adding an unnecessary accelerant to an already politically volatile and destabilizing regional security issue. It is not a step forward towards peace, but several steps backward in the direction of a deepening conflict.

If not now, when?

(COMMENT)

For each action and piece of legislation, one has to think it through. One example (a "Critical" example) is that:

Right now, the charge of "Apartheid" is baseless. Right now, Israel does not wall-off elements of its own citizenry. But once you make Judea and Samaria sovereign under the State of Israel, everyone in that territory becomes an Israeli Citizen, with all the privileges that go with the citizenry. That means the Border security boundaries now in place, have to come down, checkpoints must be lifted, and the settlements on the West Bank must now be opened. IF not, THEN you have the case of "apartheid."

In placing Judea and Samaria under the umbrella of Israeli Sovereignty, you have implemented a One-State Solution and dropped any restrictions on the "Right of Return." Every single Arab Palestinian become an Israeli Citizen; Good Guys, Bad Guys, Refugee, and The indifferent- "Everyone!"

The State of Israel, must then immediately bring the social and public services up to standard in the Territory. Whatever social security benefits and healthcare are normal for today's citizens would not be made applicable to the 770K+ refugees in the West Bank and every single citizen in Gaza.

And the list of changes just goes on and on...

(QUESTION)

Is the State of Israel ready for that (₪)?

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime; (RS/ICC)​

Every single Terrorist today is your fellow neighbor tomorrow.

Most Respectfully,
R

Again very strange, especially since we discussed specifically NOT such a scenario,
but a legal framework and process that would not be instantaneous or blindly open to potential threats.

No one talks about returning to Gaza today,
if at all, that can happen only after Judea and Samaria.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ rylah, Ria_Longhorn, et al,

Let me say I do consider the proposal seriously, but not for the same reasons. I see this from an "insider attack" perspective and a matter of capitulation to the opposition's successful campaign to "intimidate a population and to compel a government" to consider such action as "The Bill."

❖ I'm surprised to see such a simplistic and trivializing response.

◈ I'm anything but trivualizingthis proposal. I am amased it got this far up the political chain and placement.​

● Have any alternatives achieved peace?

◈ NO, to my knowledge, no Israeli generated alternative has achieved this degree of Arab Palestinian success.​

● Did we find any acceptable alternatives after years of discussion here?

◈ I'm not sure that their isn't something out there. But even so, there is nothing with any political traction to be considered.​

● Let me ask You - do You think PM Netanyahu allowing 10 armored vehicles to be transferred from the EU to the PA last week a decision that results in peace, or stability?

◈ Whether it is the old Viet Nam War era V-100 Security Vehicle, or the BRDM2 Armored Vehicle, it is not a level of threat to be concerned about. While it could present a difficulty to the Border Polce, they can be neutralized relatively easy using 21st Century Weapons. So no, I'm not concerned. Additionally, I don't think the PA Security Forces have the training much beyond a police tactics support arm.​

● What steps would You suggest the upcoming Israeli generation take towards peace and stability?

◈ This is one of those domestic issues that I normally step away from; that it is something for the Israelis to decide. But in this case, I'll venture out here on the ice:​

✦ If the Israelis are serious about this "annexation (the entirety of Judea and Samaria) then it has to be done in stages that do not compromise the integrity of the current State of Israel if it doesn't work.

✦ The highway system (and short rail) has to be vastly improved to connect Israel and all the major cities in the territories.

✦ Then the typical Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) "ethics issues" list must be consulted, even if you disagree with them. At least understand them.

✦ Establish "free trading zones" (Duty Free) to promote the economy of the the territories.

✦ Establish "free light industrical zones" (Duty Free) to increase international product activitiy.

✦ Government underwritten middle class residential units.

✦ New Infrastructure Project to reduce cost and make improvements for the next century: Accomplished similarly to the old "New Deal" with a Works Progress Administration (but run and financed by the Israels) →

○ Water
○ Waste
○ Electric
○ Communications
○ Hostpitals
○ Education and Research
○ etc​

All this has to be done BEFORE the area of sovereignty is reconsidered. The Arab Palestinians have an opportunity to demonstrate they know what is involved in building a nation and the

​

● Again very strange, especially since we discussed specifically NOT such a scenario, but a legal framework and process that would not be instantaneous or blindly open to potential threats.

◈ I am 100% in agreement with the slow and deliberate process. And before the issue of extended sovereignty is considered, that the standard of living through greater employment and education opportunities are raised.​

But I must reemphasize this is a major "domestic issue." The Israels have to decide they want to take the risks and bare the expense. If my first response sounded a bit trivial, it's only because there is some much preparatory work that must be done that has yet been considered and put into effect.

Just My Thought
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Likkmee]

Can I answer with a question ?
Who are Americans

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ Ria_Longhorn, et al,

This is a good question.

BLUF: Maybe never... But clearly now is NOT the time.

I know the feeling to charge towards the goal. But it is NOT necessary for MK Michal Shir, Likud Party, to throw gasoline on the fire → just because you have great firefighters.

Institute Sovereignty

(COMMENT)

For all intent and purposes, this would essentially absorb the remainder of the West Bank.

This is adding an unnecessary accelerant to an already politically volatile and destabilizing regional security issue. It is not a step forward towards peace, but several steps backward in the direction of a deepening conflict.

If not now, when?

(COMMENT)

For each action and piece of legislation, one has to think it through. One example (a "Critical" example) is that:

Right now, the charge of "Apartheid" is baseless. Right now, Israel does not wall-off elements of its own citizenry. But once you make Judea and Samaria sovereign under the State of Israel, everyone in that territory becomes an Israeli Citizen, with all the privileges that go with the citizenry. That means the Border security boundaries now in place, have to come down, checkpoints must be lifted, and the settlements on the West Bank must now be opened. IF not, THEN you have the case of "apartheid."

In placing Judea and Samaria under the umbrella of Israeli Sovereignty, you have implemented a One-State Solution and dropped any restrictions on the "Right of Return." Every single Arab Palestinian become an Israeli Citizen; Good Guys, Bad Guys, Refugee, and The indifferent- "Everyone!"

The State of Israel, must then immediately bring the social and public services up to standard in the Territory. Whatever social security benefits are normal for today's citizens would not be made applicable to the 770K+ refugees in the West Bank and every single citizen in Gaza.

And the list of changes just goes on and on...

(QUESTION)

Is the State of Israel ready for that (₪)?

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime; (RS/ICC)​

Every single Terrorist today is your fellow neighbor tomorrow.

(MY OPINION)

This "BILL" Proposal is a pro-Arab Palestinian move and MK Michal Shir becomes an advocate for a One-State Solution.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel has always been an apartheid state.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ Ria_Longhorn, et al,

This is a good question.

BLUF: Maybe never... But clearly now is NOT the time.

I know the feeling to charge towards the goal. But it is NOT necessary for MK Michal Shir, Likud Party, to throw gasoline on the fire → just because you have great firefighters.

Institute Sovereignty

(COMMENT)

For all intent and purposes, this would essentially absorb the remainder of the West Bank.

This is adding an unnecessary accelerant to an already politically volatile and destabilizing regional security issue. It is not a step forward towards peace, but several steps backward in the direction of a deepening conflict.

If not now, when?

(COMMENT)

For each action and piece of legislation, one has to think it through. One example (a "Critical" example) is that:

Right now, the charge of "Apartheid" is baseless. Right now, Israel does not wall-off elements of its own citizenry. But once you make Judea and Samaria sovereign under the State of Israel, everyone in that territory becomes an Israeli Citizen, with all the privileges that go with the citizenry. That means the Border security boundaries now in place, have to come down, checkpoints must be lifted, and the settlements on the West Bank must now be opened. IF not, THEN you have the case of "apartheid."

In placing Judea and Samaria under the umbrella of Israeli Sovereignty, you have implemented a One-State Solution and dropped any restrictions on the "Right of Return." Every single Arab Palestinian become an Israeli Citizen; Good Guys, Bad Guys, Refugee, and The indifferent- "Everyone!"

The State of Israel, must then immediately bring the social and public services up to standard in the Territory. Whatever social security benefits are normal for today's citizens would not be made applicable to the 770K+ refugees in the West Bank and every single citizen in Gaza.

And the list of changes just goes on and on...

(QUESTION)

Is the State of Israel ready for that (₪)?

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime; (RS/ICC)​

Every single Terrorist today is your fellow neighbor tomorrow.

(MY OPINION)

This "BILL" Proposal is a pro-Arab Palestinian move and MK Michal Shir becomes an advocate for a One-State Solution.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel has always been an apartheid state.

How is it that you're still befuddled about your error using the silly "apartheid" slogan?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ Ria_Longhorn, et al,

This is a good question.

BLUF: Maybe never... But clearly now is NOT the time.

I know the feeling to charge towards the goal. But it is NOT necessary for MK Michal Shir, Likud Party, to throw gasoline on the fire → just because you have great firefighters.

Institute Sovereignty

(COMMENT)

For all intent and purposes, this would essentially absorb the remainder of the West Bank.

This is adding an unnecessary accelerant to an already politically volatile and destabilizing regional security issue. It is not a step forward towards peace, but several steps backward in the direction of a deepening conflict.

If not now, when?

(COMMENT)

For each action and piece of legislation, one has to think it through. One example (a "Critical" example) is that:

Right now, the charge of "Apartheid" is baseless. Right now, Israel does not wall-off elements of its own citizenry. But once you make Judea and Samaria sovereign under the State of Israel, everyone in that territory becomes an Israeli Citizen, with all the privileges that go with the citizenry. That means the Border security boundaries now in place, have to come down, checkpoints must be lifted, and the settlements on the West Bank must now be opened. IF not, THEN you have the case of "apartheid."

In placing Judea and Samaria under the umbrella of Israeli Sovereignty, you have implemented a One-State Solution and dropped any restrictions on the "Right of Return." Every single Arab Palestinian become an Israeli Citizen; Good Guys, Bad Guys, Refugee, and The indifferent- "Everyone!"

The State of Israel, must then immediately bring the social and public services up to standard in the Territory. Whatever social security benefits are normal for today's citizens would not be made applicable to the 770K+ refugees in the West Bank and every single citizen in Gaza.

And the list of changes just goes on and on...

(QUESTION)

Is the State of Israel ready for that (₪)?

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime; (RS/ICC)​

Every single Terrorist today is your fellow neighbor tomorrow.

(MY OPINION)

This "BILL" Proposal is a pro-Arab Palestinian move and MK Michal Shir becomes an advocate for a One-State Solution.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel has always been an apartheid state.

How is it that you're still befuddled about your error using the silly "apartheid" slogan?

Not befuddled at all. The law is clear and Israel's actions are transparent.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ Ria_Longhorn, et al,

This is a good question.

BLUF: Maybe never... But clearly now is NOT the time.

I know the feeling to charge towards the goal. But it is NOT necessary for MK Michal Shir, Likud Party, to throw gasoline on the fire → just because you have great firefighters.

(COMMENT)

For all intent and purposes, this would essentially absorb the remainder of the West Bank.

This is adding an unnecessary accelerant to an already politically volatile and destabilizing regional security issue. It is not a step forward towards peace, but several steps backward in the direction of a deepening conflict.

If not now, when?

(COMMENT)

For each action and piece of legislation, one has to think it through. One example (a "Critical" example) is that:

Right now, the charge of "Apartheid" is baseless. Right now, Israel does not wall-off elements of its own citizenry. But once you make Judea and Samaria sovereign under the State of Israel, everyone in that territory becomes an Israeli Citizen, with all the privileges that go with the citizenry. That means the Border security boundaries now in place, have to come down, checkpoints must be lifted, and the settlements on the West Bank must now be opened. IF not, THEN you have the case of "apartheid."

In placing Judea and Samaria under the umbrella of Israeli Sovereignty, you have implemented a One-State Solution and dropped any restrictions on the "Right of Return." Every single Arab Palestinian become an Israeli Citizen; Good Guys, Bad Guys, Refugee, and The indifferent- "Everyone!"

The State of Israel, must then immediately bring the social and public services up to standard in the Territory. Whatever social security benefits are normal for today's citizens would not be made applicable to the 770K+ refugees in the West Bank and every single citizen in Gaza.

And the list of changes just goes on and on...

(QUESTION)

Is the State of Israel ready for that (₪)?

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime; (RS/ICC)​

Every single Terrorist today is your fellow neighbor tomorrow.

(MY OPINION)

This "BILL" Proposal is a pro-Arab Palestinian move and MK Michal Shir becomes an advocate for a One-State Solution.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel has always been an apartheid state.

How is it that you're still befuddled about your error using the silly "apartheid" slogan?

Not befuddled at all. The law is clear and Israel's actions are transparent.

You're befuddled about the law. What "apartheid law" are you befuddled about?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Settlers torch fields in Burin and ‘Asirah al-Qibliyah, May 17, 2019

 

[USAF 2023]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ Ria_Longhorn, et al,

This is a good question.

BLUF: Maybe never... But clearly now is NOT the time.

I know the feeling to charge towards the goal. But it is NOT necessary for MK Michal Shir, Likud Party, to throw gasoline on the fire → just because you have great firefighters.

Institute Sovereignty

(COMMENT)

For all intent and purposes, this would essentially absorb the remainder of the West Bank.

This is adding an unnecessary accelerant to an already politically volatile and destabilizing regional security issue. It is not a step forward towards peace, but several steps backward in the direction of a deepening conflict.

If not now, when?

(COMMENT)

For each action and piece of legislation, one has to think it through. One example (a "Critical" example) is that:

Right now, the charge of "Apartheid" is baseless. Right now, Israel does not wall-off elements of its own citizenry. But once you make Judea and Samaria sovereign under the State of Israel, everyone in that territory becomes an Israeli Citizen, with all the privileges that go with the citizenry. That means the Border security boundaries now in place, have to come down, checkpoints must be lifted, and the settlements on the West Bank must now be opened. IF not, THEN you have the case of "apartheid."

In placing Judea and Samaria under the umbrella of Israeli Sovereignty, you have implemented a One-State Solution and dropped any restrictions on the "Right of Return." Every single Arab Palestinian become an Israeli Citizen; Good Guys, Bad Guys, Refugee, and The indifferent- "Everyone!"

The State of Israel, must then immediately bring the social and public services up to standard in the Territory. Whatever social security benefits are normal for today's citizens would not be made applicable to the 770K+ refugees in the West Bank and every single citizen in Gaza.

And the list of changes just goes on and on...

(QUESTION)

Is the State of Israel ready for that (₪)?

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime; (RS/ICC)​

Every single Terrorist today is your fellow neighbor tomorrow.

(MY OPINION)

This "BILL" Proposal is a pro-Arab Palestinian move and MK Michal Shir becomes an advocate for a One-State Solution.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel has always been an apartheid state.

How is it that you're still befuddled about your error using the silly "apartheid" slogan?

He’s desperate; Enjoy it

 

[rylah]

Israel has always been an apartheid state.

That's because You rewrite the terms for Israel, in such a way that in any objective view would define many western nations, including the US as an apartheid as well.

The demand for total Arab domination over the entire middle east at the expense of the only independent minority is exactly that - apartheid. Denial of that is justice.

 

[rylah]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ rylah, Ria_Longhorn, et al,

Let me say I do consider the proposal seriously, but not for the same reasons. I see this from an "insider attack" perspective and a matter of capitulation to the opposition's successful campaign to "intimidate a population and to compel a government" to consider such action as "The Bill."

❖ I'm surprised to see such a simplistic and trivializing response.

◈ I'm anything but trivualizingthis proposal. I am amased it got this far up the political chain and placement.​

● Have any alternatives achieved peace?

◈ NO, to my knowledge, no Israeli generated alternative has achieved this degree of Arab Palestinian success.​

● Did we find any acceptable alternatives after years of discussion here?

◈ I'm not sure that their isn't something out there. But even so, there is nothing with any political traction to be considered.​

● Let me ask You - do You think PM Netanyahu allowing 10 armored vehicles to be transferred from the EU to the PA last week a decision that results in peace, or stability?

◈ Whether it is the old Viet Nam War era V-100 Security Vehicle, or the BRDM2 Armored Vehicle, it is not a level of threat to be concerned about. While it could present a difficulty to the Border Polce, they can be neutralized relatively easy using 21st Century Weapons. So no, I'm not concerned. Additionally, I don't think the PA Security Forces have the training much beyond a police tactics support arm.​

● What steps would You suggest the upcoming Israeli generation take towards peace and stability?

◈ This is one of those domestic issues that I normally step away from; that it is something for the Israelis to decide. But in this case, I'll venture out here on the ice:
✦ If the Israelis are serious about this "annexation (the entirety of Judea and Samaria) then it has to be done in stages that do not compromise the integrity of the current State of Israel if it doesn't work.

✦ The highway system (and short rail) has to be vastly improved to connect Israel and all the major cities in the territories.

✦ Then the typical Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) "ethics issues" list must be consulted, even if you disagree with them. At least understand them.

✦ Establish "free trading zones" (Duty Free) to promote the economy of the the territories.

✦ Establish "free light industrical zones" (Duty Free) to increase international product activitiy.

✦ Government underwritten middle class residential units.

✦ New Infrastructure Project to reduce cost and make improvements for the next century: Accomplished similarly to the old "New Deal" with a Works Progress Administration (but run and financed by the Israels) →

○ Water
○ Waste
○ Electric
○ Communications
○ Hostpitals
○ Education and Research
○ etc​

All this has to be done BEFORE the area of sovereignty is reconsidered. The Arab Palestinians have an opportunity to demonstrate they know what is involved in building a nation and the

​

● Again very strange, especially since we discussed specifically NOT such a scenario, but a legal framework and process that would not be instantaneous or blindly open to potential threats.

◈ I am 100% in agreement with the slow and deliberate process. And before the issue of extended sovereignty is considered, that the standard of living through greater employment and education opportunities are raised.​

But I must reemphasize this is a major "domestic issue." The Israels have to decide they want to take the risks and bare the expense. If my first response sounded a bit trivial, it's only because there is some much preparatory work that must be done that has yet been considered and put into effect.

Just My Thought
Most Respectfully,
R

This is probably going to be just one of the answers to specific points You've mentioned.
I see here questions on 4 layers:

1. Legislation, specifically RoR and legal status during transition
2. National security - "every single terrorist today is Your neighbor tomorrow"
3. Infrastructure/economy planning
4. Ethics - the moral boundaries of application such transition

Q. Did I miss any theme?

I fully agree there's a need for an official governmental plan to be put forward,
that's exactly the main theme of the opening bill and the forming govt. What is suggested in the bill is a first step that is the easy one - leveling the civil rights of the Israeli citizens in Judea Samaria, another bill, a step further, that is being currently blocked under the excuse that it will "anger the US", is cancellation "The disengagement bill" in Samaria, where there're empty villages still standing and no PA control.

As a whole the security and legislation of the transition is of greater concern,
as for ethics, until now and in-spite of the wars and friction - Arabs living under full Israeli sovereignty are still the most free Arab society in the middle east, and have only upgraded their quality of life, movement to the opposite direction seems to downgrade both the civil and even the political status.

 

[rylah]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ rylah, Ria_Longhorn, et al,

Let me say I do consider the proposal seriously, but not for the same reasons. I see this from an "insider attack" perspective and a matter of capitulation to the opposition's successful campaign to "intimidate a population and to compel a government" to consider such action as "The Bill."

❖ I'm surprised to see such a simplistic and trivializing response.

◈ I'm anything but trivualizingthis proposal. I am amased it got this far up the political chain and placement.​

● Have any alternatives achieved peace?

◈ NO, to my knowledge, no Israeli generated alternative has achieved this degree of Arab Palestinian success.​

● Did we find any acceptable alternatives after years of discussion here?

◈ I'm not sure that their isn't something out there. But even so, there is nothing with any political traction to be considered.​

● Let me ask You - do You think PM Netanyahu allowing 10 armored vehicles to be transferred from the EU to the PA last week a decision that results in peace, or stability?

◈ Whether it is the old Viet Nam War era V-100 Security Vehicle, or the BRDM2 Armored Vehicle, it is not a level of threat to be concerned about. While it could present a difficulty to the Border Polce, they can be neutralized relatively easy using 21st Century Weapons. So no, I'm not concerned. Additionally, I don't think the PA Security Forces have the training much beyond a police tactics support arm.​

● What steps would You suggest the upcoming Israeli generation take towards peace and stability?

◈ This is one of those domestic issues that I normally step away from; that it is something for the Israelis to decide. But in this case, I'll venture out here on the ice:
✦ If the Israelis are serious about this "annexation (the entirety of Judea and Samaria) then it has to be done in stages that do not compromise the integrity of the current State of Israel if it doesn't work.

✦ The highway system (and short rail) has to be vastly improved to connect Israel and all the major cities in the territories.

✦ Then the typical Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) "ethics issues" list must be consulted, even if you disagree with them. At least understand them.

✦ Establish "free trading zones" (Duty Free) to promote the economy of the the territories.

✦ Establish "free light industrical zones" (Duty Free) to increase international product activitiy.

✦ Government underwritten middle class residential units.

✦ New Infrastructure Project to reduce cost and make improvements for the next century: Accomplished similarly to the old "New Deal" with a Works Progress Administration (but run and financed by the Israels) →

○ Water
○ Waste
○ Electric
○ Communications
○ Hostpitals
○ Education and Research
○ etc​

All this has to be done BEFORE the area of sovereignty is reconsidered. The Arab Palestinians have an opportunity to demonstrate they know what is involved in building a nation and the

​

● Again very strange, especially since we discussed specifically NOT such a scenario, but a legal framework and process that would not be instantaneous or blindly open to potential threats.

◈ I am 100% in agreement with the slow and deliberate process. And before the issue of extended sovereignty is considered, that the standard of living through greater employment and education opportunities are raised.​

But I must reemphasize this is a major "domestic issue." The Israels have to decide they want to take the risks and bare the expense. If my first response sounded a bit trivial, it's only because there is some much preparatory work that must be done that has yet been considered and put into effect.

Just My Thought
Most Respectfully,
R

The free trading and light industrial (Duty Free) zones, sound applicable to what flacaltenn once presented, taking in mind regional economic development in which the Arab community of Judea could take a key role.
Hope he will explain it himself if finds appropriate.

 

[rylah]

80 Deaf Israeli Children Come Together For Joint Bar/Bat Mitzvah - Your News From Israel

 

[rylah]

Billboards of Gal Gadot covered in cities across the country

The above is not in Jerusalem,
it's in Hulon, Azur, Rishon LeZion...Tel-Aviv area.

News13

 

[rylah]

Watch: Jewish minors detained on the Temple Mount after daring to bow down

Two Jewish kids were detained this morning (23.5.19) by police on the Temple Mount after they bowed down. A video released from the event shows that during a routine pilgrimage to the Temple Mount, two Jewish children accompanied the group of ascendants (those who go up the Mount). During the tour, as the group arrived in front of the mosque on the Dome of the Rock, the children prostrated themselves on the ground and bowed down. Police escorting the patrol immediately jumped on the children and detained them at the police station. After a while, and with the attorney's intervention, the police released the two.

ארנון סגל on Twitter

 

[rylah]

As coalition negotiations stall, judicial reform hangs in the balance
If Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu fails to negotiate coalition agreements before May 29, he may lose the chance to form the next government. Also crucial is consideration of a clause that would give a Knesset majority the power to overturn a Supreme Court decision.

(May 24, 2019 / JNS) Attempts by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to form a governing coalition of the 65 right-wing and religious Knesset members that have recommended him as the next premier have been proving difficult. One key issue being discussed as part of the complex negotiations is controversial legislation that would curtail the powers of Israel’s judiciary, which is arguably the branch of government with the widest authority.

“The next week is extremely important regarding the future of the court,” says Moshe Koppel, chairman of the Kohelet Policy Forum, an Israeli think tank that has been pushing for judicial reform.

Read full article: JNS

 

[flacaltenn]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ rylah, Ria_Longhorn, et al,

Let me say I do consider the proposal seriously, but not for the same reasons. I see this from an "insider attack" perspective and a matter of capitulation to the opposition's successful campaign to "intimidate a population and to compel a government" to consider such action as "The Bill."

❖ I'm surprised to see such a simplistic and trivializing response.

◈ I'm anything but trivualizingthis proposal. I am amased it got this far up the political chain and placement.​

● Have any alternatives achieved peace?

◈ NO, to my knowledge, no Israeli generated alternative has achieved this degree of Arab Palestinian success.​

● Did we find any acceptable alternatives after years of discussion here?

◈ I'm not sure that their isn't something out there. But even so, there is nothing with any political traction to be considered.​

● Let me ask You - do You think PM Netanyahu allowing 10 armored vehicles to be transferred from the EU to the PA last week a decision that results in peace, or stability?

◈ Whether it is the old Viet Nam War era V-100 Security Vehicle, or the BRDM2 Armored Vehicle, it is not a level of threat to be concerned about. While it could present a difficulty to the Border Polce, they can be neutralized relatively easy using 21st Century Weapons. So no, I'm not concerned. Additionally, I don't think the PA Security Forces have the training much beyond a police tactics support arm.​

● What steps would You suggest the upcoming Israeli generation take towards peace and stability?

◈ This is one of those domestic issues that I normally step away from; that it is something for the Israelis to decide. But in this case, I'll venture out here on the ice:
✦ If the Israelis are serious about this "annexation (the entirety of Judea and Samaria) then it has to be done in stages that do not compromise the integrity of the current State of Israel if it doesn't work.

✦ The highway system (and short rail) has to be vastly improved to connect Israel and all the major cities in the territories.

✦ Then the typical Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) "ethics issues" list must be consulted, even if you disagree with them. At least understand them.

✦ Establish "free trading zones" (Duty Free) to promote the economy of the the territories.

✦ Establish "free light industrical zones" (Duty Free) to increase international product activitiy.

✦ Government underwritten middle class residential units.

✦ New Infrastructure Project to reduce cost and make improvements for the next century: Accomplished similarly to the old "New Deal" with a Works Progress Administration (but run and financed by the Israels) →

○ Water
○ Waste
○ Electric
○ Communications
○ Hostpitals
○ Education and Research
○ etc​

All this has to be done BEFORE the area of sovereignty is reconsidered. The Arab Palestinians have an opportunity to demonstrate they know what is involved in building a nation and the

​

● Again very strange, especially since we discussed specifically NOT such a scenario, but a legal framework and process that would not be instantaneous or blindly open to potential threats.

◈ I am 100% in agreement with the slow and deliberate process. And before the issue of extended sovereignty is considered, that the standard of living through greater employment and education opportunities are raised.​

But I must reemphasize this is a major "domestic issue." The Israels have to decide they want to take the risks and bare the expense. If my first response sounded a bit trivial, it's only because there is some much preparatory work that must be done that has yet been considered and put into effect.

Just My Thought
Most Respectfully,
R

The free trading and light industrial (Duty Free) zones, sound applicable to what flacaltenn once presented, taking in mind regional economic development in which the Arab community of Judea could take a key role.
Hope he will explain it himself if finds appropriate.

It's just essential that NEW THINKING on how the connectivity works in a West Bank for the Palestinians AND the Israelis. Any plan for resolution of occupation HAS to offer means of connecting Palestinians to local and REGIONAL markets.

Especially in the scenario of ANNEXATION of Judah/Samaria.. Because you end up (de facto) with ISOLATED Palestinian city-states without a plan for free flow of commerce..

So my proposal (all 6600 words of it) is BASED on a city-state (emirate) form of Palestinian govt with optional limited federal layers for diplomacy and currency and judicial review, etc.. In addition, it proposes a REGIONAL connectivity that restores that land of Israel to a HUB of commerce for "trade routes"... Done in conjunction with Egypt and Jordan and potentially Lebanon. Establishes a SECURE limited access highway thru these 3 countries at their borders that puts the Palestinians smack in the middle of very LUCRATIVE "trade zone" with connectivity to Arab neighbors, the rest of Palestinian community in the region and the rest of the world..

If Gaza ever sheds their Hamas captors, This would include them as well --- adding the possibility of a seaport to this "highway" of trade and commerce..

Here is a concept map for that connectivity...

 

[Ropey]

Gaza has never been under the total control of Jews or any of the preceding empires encompassing it. In the 13th century BC, the Philistines (Cretans) annihilated the Avite's of Gaza and took it over. Even though Gaza was in the promised land, it was under outside control iow, never fully under control of the Jews. Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians and later still by Alexander the Great who came and went and also left Gaza to be internally controlled and Pompey evicted all Jewry leaving the others to continue the lands control while dealing Israel hard time.

There are two prevailing thoughts and I go with Sharon who said that "We do NOT want Gaza. At most, we want to control the borders and stop their ability to attack us."

The others say that a pattern that has existed for thousands of years will continue; a sequence of Jewish exile from Gaza, followed by inevitable restoration as is happening with the return of the Bene Menashe to the Golan.

Palestinians are Syrian Arabs and belong to Arabia/Syria/Joran/Egypt but surely not Israel. They are allowed citizenship.

It is not a right of Arabs to have citizenship in Israel, it is bestowed upon them and for some reason, they do not want to leave... even with land swaps.

 

[rylah]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
⁜→ rylah, Ria_Longhorn, et al,

Let me say I do consider the proposal seriously, but not for the same reasons. I see this from an "insider attack" perspective and a matter of capitulation to the opposition's successful campaign to "intimidate a population and to compel a government" to consider such action as "The Bill."

❖ I'm surprised to see such a simplistic and trivializing response.

◈ I'm anything but trivualizingthis proposal. I am amased it got this far up the political chain and placement.​

● Have any alternatives achieved peace?

◈ NO, to my knowledge, no Israeli generated alternative has achieved this degree of Arab Palestinian success.​

● Did we find any acceptable alternatives after years of discussion here?

◈ I'm not sure that their isn't something out there. But even so, there is nothing with any political traction to be considered.​

● Let me ask You - do You think PM Netanyahu allowing 10 armored vehicles to be transferred from the EU to the PA last week a decision that results in peace, or stability?

◈ Whether it is the old Viet Nam War era V-100 Security Vehicle, or the BRDM2 Armored Vehicle, it is not a level of threat to be concerned about. While it could present a difficulty to the Border Polce, they can be neutralized relatively easy using 21st Century Weapons. So no, I'm not concerned. Additionally, I don't think the PA Security Forces have the training much beyond a police tactics support arm.​

● What steps would You suggest the upcoming Israeli generation take towards peace and stability?

◈ This is one of those domestic issues that I normally step away from; that it is something for the Israelis to decide. But in this case, I'll venture out here on the ice:
✦ If the Israelis are serious about this "annexation (the entirety of Judea and Samaria) then it has to be done in stages that do not compromise the integrity of the current State of Israel if it doesn't work.

✦ The highway system (and short rail) has to be vastly improved to connect Israel and all the major cities in the territories.

✦ Then the typical Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) "ethics issues" list must be consulted, even if you disagree with them. At least understand them.

✦ Establish "free trading zones" (Duty Free) to promote the economy of the the territories.

✦ Establish "free light industrical zones" (Duty Free) to increase international product activitiy.

✦ Government underwritten middle class residential units.

✦ New Infrastructure Project to reduce cost and make improvements for the next century: Accomplished similarly to the old "New Deal" with a Works Progress Administration (but run and financed by the Israels) →

○ Water
○ Waste
○ Electric
○ Communications
○ Hostpitals
○ Education and Research
○ etc​

All this has to be done BEFORE the area of sovereignty is reconsidered. The Arab Palestinians have an opportunity to demonstrate they know what is involved in building a nation and the

​

● Again very strange, especially since we discussed specifically NOT such a scenario, but a legal framework and process that would not be instantaneous or blindly open to potential threats.

◈ I am 100% in agreement with the slow and deliberate process. And before the issue of extended sovereignty is considered, that the standard of living through greater employment and education opportunities are raised.​

But I must reemphasize this is a major "domestic issue." The Israels have to decide they want to take the risks and bare the expense. If my first response sounded a bit trivial, it's only because there is some much preparatory work that must be done that has yet been considered and put into effect.

Just My Thought
Most Respectfully,
R

The free trading and light industrial (Duty Free) zones, sound applicable to what flacaltenn once presented, taking in mind regional economic development in which the Arab community of Judea could take a key role.
Hope he will explain it himself if finds appropriate.

It's just essential that NEW THINKING on how the connectivity works in a West Bank for the Palestinians AND the Israelis. Any plan for resolution of occupation HAS to offer means of connecting Palestinians to local and REGIONAL markets.

Especially in the scenario of ANNEXATION of Judah/Samaria.. Because you end up (de facto) with ISOLATED Palestinian city-states without a plan for free flow of commerce..

So my proposal (all 6600 words of it) is BASED on a city-state (emirate) form of Palestinian govt with optional limited federal layers for diplomacy and currency and judicial review, etc.. In addition, it proposes a REGIONAL connectivity that restores that land of Israel to a HUB of commerce for "trade routes"... Done in conjunction with Egypt and Jordan and potentially Lebanon. Establishes a SECURE limited access highway thru these 3 countries at their borders that puts the Palestinians smack in the middle of very LUCRATIVE "trade zone" with connectivity to Arab neighbors, the rest of Palestinian community in the region and the rest of the world..

If Gaza ever sheds their Hamas captors, This would include them as well --- adding the possibility of a seaport to this "highway" of trade and commerce..

Here is a concept map for that connectivity...

View attachment 262489

This is a great leverage, any move towards improving the economic and political status of Judea (currently this is the area of investigation), is a function of wider regional economic development, and therefore direct involvement and additional guarantee.

Can this idea be worked out if instead of Emirates, those 7 cities in Judea apply the status of full Israeli sovereignty, like Nazareth?