Who are the Israelis?

[Toddsterpatriot]

There were no borders for Israel.

You don't read anything but Israeli BS.

Post the agreements that support your claim.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Post the agreements that support your claim.

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949

The agreements that say Israeli are evidence there is no Israel?

Dude, put down the bong!

 

[P F Tinmore]

The agreements that say Israeli are evidence there is no Israel?

Dude, put down the bong!

You don't know the difference between Israel and Israeli.

There is no place called Israel mentioned anywhere.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You don't know the difference between Israel and Israeli.

There is no place called Israel mentioned anywhere.

Why are Israelis signing agreements that don't include Israel?
Why are no Palestinians signing agreements that involve Palestine? DURR

There is no place called Israel mentioned anywhere.
Liar.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why are Israelis signing agreements that don't include Israel?
Why are no Palestinians signing agreements that involve Palestine? DURR

There is no place called Israel mentioned anywhere.
Liar.

View attachment 802457

So, where did they say the government was? Where were its borders?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
SUBTOPIC: Perspectives on the Concept...
※→ P F Tinmore, Toddsterpatriot, et al,

Yes, this is something that the Arab Palestinians have often implied. This is another Red Herring.

They don't have any defined territory.

Look at the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

(COMMENT)
.
I have searched every lead submitted by the Arab Palestinians pertaining to an Armistice Agreement in 1949 between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians --- or any such agreement to which the Arab Palestinians were a party in 1949. I cannot find one. So, I cannot say what such a document says if it doesn't exist.

Please let me know the whereabouts of such a document. I am very interested.

Remember two things:

◈ The Seventh Arab Summit (1974) in Rabat was the first time the Arab League made a public affirmation of the role in which the PLO was recognized as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people. That is a quarter Century after the 1949 Armistice Agreements were signed.​

​

◈ In UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs wrote a Memo in 2012 stating in part: "Palestine was not identified as a State or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a government."​

There were no borders for Israel.
You don't read anything but Israeli BS.

(COMMENT)

To simplify the matter - at present (ie 2023) there are seven principal boundary instruments that are sound and valid under international law:

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •​

◈ Golan Heights Law •​

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •​

◈ Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (Oslo I) (1993)​

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II) (1995) •​

◈ Letter from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon (2000) •​

(∑ Ω)

I am not sure what the Arab Palestinians have used as a "defined territory." For the last eight centuries, no Palestinian entity of any sort has been the supreme, and normally exclusive, authority’ over any territory in the Region:

Article I, Montevideo Convention of 1933

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications:​

a ) a permanent population;​

b) a defined territory; ​

c ) government;​

d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​

​

Specific Terms

territory, acquisition of ‘No unanimity exists with regard to the modes of acquiring territory on the part of members of the international community’: I Oppenheim 678 . However, most commentators have identified five methods by which territory can be acquired under international law: cession; conquest; subjugation; accretion; occupation; and prescription, acquisitive. See also self-determination. Frequently, but without much practical utility, the methods of acquiring title to territory are classified as either original or derivative, the former applying to territory not subject to prior ownership by a State, the latter to the territory subject to prior ownership, the title of the new owning State being derived from the prior owning State. See Jennings, The Acquisition of Territory in International Law ( 1963 ); Crawford, The Creation of States in International Law (2nd ed.), Part II.​

​

territory, concept of ‘State territory is that defined portion of the surface of the globe which is subjected to the sovereignty of a state. A state without a territory is not possible, although the necessary territory may be very small. . . . The importance of state territory lies in the fact that it is the space within which the state exercises its supreme, and normally exclusive, authority’: I Oppenheim 563 and 564. See also Crawford, The Creation of States in International Law (2nd ed.), Chap. 2, esp. 46–52.​

SOURCE: Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law, Copyright © 2009, Oxford University Press, 198 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10016 Inc. pg 599​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

I have searched every lead submitted by the Arab Palestinians pertaining to an Armistice Agreement in 1949 between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians --- or any such agreement to which the Arab Palestinians were a party in 1949. I cannot find one. So, I cannot say what such a document says if it doesn't exist.

Why would you do that? Nobody has claimed such a document. I referenced the Armistice Agreements because of what they say and don't say.

• Palestine is mentioned many times. A place called Israel is not mentioned.
• Palestine's international borders with its neighbors are mentioned. No borders are mentioned for Israel.

The agreemant with Jordan says: "(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions..."

The agreement with Egypt says: "4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of entering Palestine."

In 1949 it was Palestine not Israel. Montevideo states: "

Article 4​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one does not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

The UN states: " 3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

Any questions?

 

[P F Tinmore]

However, most commentators have identified five methods by which territory can be acquired under international law: cession; conquest; subjugation; accretion; occupation; and prescription, acquisitive.

You have posted that many times but you have not mention which method Israel used.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications:a ) a permanent population;b) a defined territory; c ) government;d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

Interesting that you would post that since Israel has never had a defined territory.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So, where did they say the government was? Where were its borders?

Read the documents. The ones that mention Israeli all over the place.
The ones signed by Israelis.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why would you do that? Nobody has claimed such a document. I referenced the Armistice Agreements because of what they say and don't say.

• Palestine is mentioned many times. A place called Israel is not mentioned.
• Palestine's international borders with its neighbors are mentioned. No borders are mentioned for Israel.

The agreemant with Jordan says: "(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions..."

The agreement with Egypt says: "4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of entering Palestine."

In 1949 it was Palestine not Israel. Montevideo states: "

Article 4​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one does not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

The UN states: " 3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

Any questions?

The agreemant with Jordan says: "(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions..."

Who were the parties that signed this agreement?

The agreement with Egypt says: "4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of entering Palestine."

Who were the parties that signed this agreement?

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one does not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

Where did that "person" sign an agreement with a neighbor?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The agreemant with Jordan says: "(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions..."

Who were the parties that signed this agreement?

The agreement with Egypt says: "4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of entering Palestine."

Who were the parties that signed this agreement?

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one does not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

Where did that "person" sign an agreement with a neighbor?

Israel signed the agreement saying that was Palestine.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel signed the agreement saying that was Palestine.

And then Israel changed its name to Israel.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who are the Israelis?
SUBTOPIC: The Imagination
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Any questions?

(COMMENT)

Yes, I've heard all this before. This is primarily because the Palestinians do not actually want to accept what "Palestine" meant between the 1920s thru the 1940s. Palestine was defined as the territory under the Mandate. And the boundaries were established by the Allied Powers → set and maintained by the British. During this period, the High Commissioner governed Palestine exclusively by the British.
.

You have posted that many times but you have not mention which method Israel used.

(COMMENT)

And I have answered the question the same way every time. Israel is bound by the limits of their sovereign control. This is the exercise of self-determination and conquest; accretion (a generic term for methods by which a State
may acquire title to the territory through the gradual operations of nature and requiring no formal acts of appropriation); occupation; and prescription - acquisitive (the acquisition of sovereignty over a territory through
continuous and undisturbed exercise of sovereignty).
.

Interesting that you would post that since Israel has never had a defined territory.

(COMMENT)

This is quite hilarious. Israel's sovereign territory has been defined by active defense and the application of its laws. It has been so since 1948.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[watchingfromafar]

Was it Palestinian currency?

A Russian dollar is worth two cents
So, whatever currency you use, please do not rely on the rubble.
What ever currency you use, please do not use the Russian ruble

1 Russian Ruble equals
0.011 United States Dollar
1 RUB to USD - Russian Rubles to US Dollars Exchange Rate (xe.com)
-

 

[watchingfromafar]

Of course, the aim of Arab propaganda is to appeal to the lowest denominator of its target audience

Here is who you are defending, children slayers (murder)
I Googled “Israelis killing children”
About 537,000 results (0.39 seconds)
Search Results

These are the Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2016 | The ...
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/.../these-are-palestinian-children-killed-israel-2016

Thirty-five Palestinian children were killed by Israeli soldiers, police and armed civilians during the year, all but four of the deadly incidents ...
Invisible killings: Israel's daily toll of Palestinian children | The ...

https://electronicintifada.net/content/invisible-killings-israels-daily-toll...children/4263

Convincing the Israeli adults in control of this weaponry in civilian areas that they should not be using it to kill children who are merely stone throwers should not ...
Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months | News | Al Jazeera
www.aljazeera.com/.../israel-killed-25-palestinian-children-months-16051414083314...

Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was ...
One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years ...

One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years: statistics...
“The International Day for the Protection of Children is on June 1,” said a spokesman, “but Palestinian children are still subject to attacks by the Israelis and ...

Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000 – Middle ...
Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000...

Israel has killed more than 3,000 children since 28 September 2000 when the Second Intifada began until the end of April 2017, a new report ...
Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia
Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict refers to the impact of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict .... Though Israeli children were killed in the conflict during the decades prior, the first acts of
12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
Home - Mode TheReligion

Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
palestine-net.com

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and dead while buying candy with her friends.
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head by a bullet fired Two 10 year-old school children were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an Israeli tank fired into their classroom.

Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk
-

 

[P F Tinmore]

And I have answered the question the same way every time. Israel is bound by the limits of their sovereign control. This is the exercise of self-determination and conquest; accretion (a generic term for methods by which a State
may acquire title to the territory through the gradual operations of nature and requiring no formal acts of appropriation); occupation; and prescription - acquisitive (the acquisition of sovereignty over a territory through
continuous and undisturbed exercise of sovereignty).

You are obfuscating.

 

[rylah]

Here is who you are defending, children slayers (murder)
I Googled “Israelis killing children”
About 537,000 results (0.39 seconds)
Search Results

These are the Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2016 | The ...
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/.../these-are-palestinian-children-killed-israel-2016

Thirty-five Palestinian children were killed by Israeli soldiers, police and armed civilians during the year, all but four of the deadly incidents ...
Invisible killings: Israel's daily toll of Palestinian children | The ...

https://electronicintifada.net/content/invisible-killings-israels-daily-toll...children/4263

Convincing the Israeli adults in control of this weaponry in civilian areas that they should not be using it to kill children who are merely stone throwers should not ...
Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months | News | Al Jazeera
www.aljazeera.com/.../israel-killed-25-palestinian-children-months-16051414083314...

Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was ...
One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years ...

One Palestinian child killed every 3 days by Israel for 13 years: statistics...
“The International Day for the Protection of Children is on June 1,” said a spokesman, “but Palestinian children are still subject to attacks by the Israelis and ...

Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000 – Middle ...
Report: Israel killed 3,000 Palestinian children since 2000...

Israel has killed more than 3,000 children since 28 September 2000 when the Second Intifada began until the end of April 2017, a new report ...
Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia
Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

Children in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict refers to the impact of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict .... Though Israeli children were killed in the conflict during the decades prior, the first acts of
12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
Home - Mode TheReligion

Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
palestine-net.com

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and dead while buying candy with her friends.
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

12-year old Hoda Darwish was hit in the head by a bullet fired Two 10 year-old school children were shot in the al-Omaria school run by UNRWA in Rafah, when an Israeli tank fired into their classroom.

Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk
-

Of course, I defend our soldiers, they are my brothers and sisters,
fighting a savage enemy exploiting children for war propaganda.
Not to mention using children to clear minefields for soldiers...

Is this what you support?

 

[rylah]

Israel signed the agreement saying that was Palestine.

And what nation is entitled to Palestine, from its very founding?