Who Are The Palestinians " III "

[P F Tinmore]

So the 67 Borders weren’t made to be official? Then Israel has every right to keep the land they won in the 67 War.

How do you figure that?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Links?

https://www.state.gov/historic-agreement-establishing-a-permanent-israel-lebanon-maritime-boundary/

Peace Treaty Between the State of Israel and the Arab Republic of Egypt | UN Peacemaker

peacemaker.un.org

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-179122/

 

[USAF 2023]

How do you figure that?

YOU said that Israel doesn’t have any real borders. If the 67 Borders aren’t OFFICIALLY recognized please tell us why Israel should go back to them?
If Israel were to go back, what assurances what they have that those borders would be recognized and respected??

 

[Hollie]

Uh oh. Allah is not going to be happy about this.

Abbasâ Advisor: Arab participation in Jerusalem municipal elections is âbetrayal of Allahâ and âa crimeâ | PMW Analysis

Abbas’ Advisor: Arab participation in Jerusalem municipal elections is “betrayal of Allah” and “a crime”

palwatch.org

Abbas’ Advisor: Arab participation in Jerusalem municipal elections is “betrayal of Allah” and “a crime”​

Nan Jacques Zilberdik | Jun 30, 2023

• PA fatwa: “The Palestinian Supreme Fatwa Council confirmed the fatwa, which bans participating or running in the elections for the occupation’s (i.e., Israel’s) municipality in Jerusalem…This constitutes a violation of religious law and of the national consensus”
• Any Palestinian who runs or votes in Jerusalem municipal elections is committing “a crime” and “will lose his national identity and his Palestinian affiliation”

The Jerusalem municipal elections are scheduled for October 31, 2023, but the PA is already warning Arab residents of Jerusalem against participating as candidates or as voters. In fact, the Palestinian Supreme Fatwa Council has issued a fatwa – an Islamic religious ruling - prohibiting participation in the elections, stating that it “constitutes a violation of religious law”:

Headline: “The [Palestinian Supreme] Fatwa Council bans participating in the elections of the occupation’s municipality in Jerusalem,both as candidates and as voters”
“The Palestinian Supreme Fatwa Council confirmed the fatwa (i.e., Islamic religious ruling) that it issued, which bans participating or running in the elections for the occupation’s municipality in Jerusalem. It explained that this constitutes a violation of religious law and of the national consensus.”

[WAFA, official PA news agency, June 15, 2023]​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: Borders
※→ USAF 2023, P F Tinmore, et al,

For more than a decade, our friend "P F Tinmore" has misunderstood the intent and duration of the Armistice Agreement and → misrepresented the facts.

Agree! You are actually admitting that no matter what Israel does there will never be peace . So Israel doesn’t have to return to the borders that were NEVER recognized in the first place

All of the maps show Israel inside of the armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.

If Israel had any land it would have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Our Discussion Group Contributor "USAF 2023" has the idea here.

When people talk about the pre-June 1967 Borders (which is diplomatically bad notation) it is never really explained. They are generally referring to lines drawn that have been historically superseded several times since the 1949 Armistice Agreements. The manner in which these old historic lines were being treated, comes from the International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States. In part, this says:

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.
SOURCE: Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in Accordance with the Charter of the United Nations

In terms of the West Bank and the associated land relative to the 1949 Armistice, those demarcations are nice-to-know pieces of history, but not really relevant today. The applicable and recognized International Boundary between Israel and Jordan comes from:

​

The international boundary between Israel and Jordan is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and co-ordinates specified therein.
SOURCE: "Treaty of Peace between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan." See Volume 2042. 1-35325

When you talk about the "International Boundary" as it really stands today, on paper, you should start here (ie the Peace Treaty). It should be noted that the Peace Treaty between Israeli and Jordan comes after the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (1993) between the Government of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) → Oslo I Accord [AKA: Declaration of Principle (DOP)].

It should also be noted that as recent as 2012, and the UN Legal Memo from the Legal Affairs Office, Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs made the observation that:

​

Prior to the adoption of resolution 67/19, Palestine was treated as an entity for United Nations purposes. Palestine was not identified as a State or a country nor could its authorities be identified as a government. Pursuant to resolution 43/177 of 15 December 1998, the designation «Palestine" was used in place of the designation "Palestinian Liberation Organization" in the United Nations.

(BOTTOM LINE)

Relative to the West Bank, any question of the International Boundary and the status of Arab Palestinians of the West Bank in the question of where they are relative "International Boundary" is set in general by the terms of the Peace Treaty between Israeli and Jordan.

Without regard to the question of "International Boundary Lines," it should be remembered that - while the Arab Palestinians in conflict with Israel are not a party to the Peace Treaty of 1994 between I(Israel and Jordan, the Arab Palestinians were a party to Oslo II (1995) and did agree to the Special Provisions concerning Area "C" and Israel's continued authority to exercise its powers and responsibilities with regard to internal security and public order, as well as with regard to other powers and responsibilities not transferred.

(∑ Ω)

All this injection about the 1967 Borders is some much "old news." It is relegated to a footnote in history. The Arab Palestinians (especially the Hostile components) should re-assess their position and what it is they are in conflict over.

USAF 2023 struck the Bull's Eye.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

They are generally referring to lines drawn that have been historically superseded several times since the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

Superseded or just violated?

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: Borders
※→ USAF 2023, P F Tinmore, et al,

For more than a decade, our friend "P F Tinmore" has misunderstood the intent and duration of the Armistice Agreement and → misrepresented the facts.



(COMMENT)

Our Discussion Group Contributor "USAF 2023" has the idea here.

When people talk about the pre-June 1967 Borders (which is diplomatically bad notation) it is never really explained. They are generally referring to lines drawn that have been historically superseded several times since the 1949 Armistice Agreements. The manner in which these old historic lines were being treated, comes from the International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States. In part, this says:

​

In terms of the West Bank and the associated land relative to the 1949 Armistice, those demarcations are nice-to-know pieces of history, but not really relevant today. The applicable and recognized International Boundary between Israel and Jordan comes from:

​

​

When you talk about the "International Boundary" as it really stands today, on paper, you should start here (ie the Peace Treaty). It should be noted that the Peace Treaty between Israeli and Jordan comes after the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (1993) between the Government of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) → Oslo I Accord [AKA: Declaration of Principle (DOP)].

It should also be noted that as recent as 2012, and the UN Legal Memo from the Legal Affairs Office, Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs made the observation that:

​

​

(BOTTOM LINE)

Relative to the West Bank, any question of the International Boundary and the status of Arab Palestinians of the West Bank in the question of where they are relative "International Boundary" is set in general by the terms of the Peace Treaty between Israeli and Jordan.

Without regard to the question of "International Boundary Lines," it should be remembered that - while the Arab Palestinians in conflict with Israel are not a party to the Peace Treaty of 1994 between I(Israel and Jordan, the Arab Palestinians were a party to Oslo II (1995) and did agree to the Special Provisions concerning Area "C" and Israel's continued authority to exercise its powers and responsibilities with regard to internal security and public order, as well as with regard to other powers and responsibilities not transferred.

(∑ Ω)

All this injection about the 1967 Borders is some much "old news." It is relegated to a footnote in history. The Arab Palestinians (especially the Hostile components) should re-assess their position and what it is they are in conflict over.

USAF 2023 struck the Bull's Eye.

Most Respectfully,
R

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect.

Let's try to make some sense of this. There is an armistice line around the West Bank. This is not a border. It is not a line between two countries. The forces of Israel and the forces of Jordan shall not cross this line.

How can Palestine violate this line? It is Palestine on both sides.

 

[USAF 2023]

Superseded or just violated?


Let's try to make some sense of this. There is an armistice line around the West Bank. This is not a border. It is not a line between two countries. The forces of Israel and the forces of Jordan shall not cross this line.

How can Palestine violate this line? It is Palestine on both sides.

You are HYSTERICAL! Too bad Jackie Mason is dead. If he were still performing you could be his opening act. Jordan shall NOT cross the “ armistice line” surrounding the W Bank and E Jerusalem? Is that why it was ( Officially or Unofficially) considered part of Jordan?? I will ask the question again; don’t expect an answer . If Israel gave the Palestinians all they wanted and there was a State with RECOGNIZED BORDERS what’s to stop them from declaring War or continued aggression on Israel since Israel has NEVER ( according to you) had recognized Borders

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Superseded or just violated?


Let's try to make some sense of this. There is an armistice line around the West Bank. This is not a border. It is not a line between two countries. The forces of Israel and the forces of Jordan shall not cross this line.

How can Palestine violate this line? It is Palestine on both sides.

How can Palestine violate this line, it's not a country.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How can Palestine violate this line, it's not a country.

BS Israeli talking point.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

BS Israeli talking point.

Which Palestinians signed the Armistice or Border agreements?

 

[USAF 2023]

BS Israeli talking point.

“ Pa

Which Palestinians signed the Armistice or Border agreements?

” Palestine “ is a Country but Israel isn’t? More BS Palestinian talking points. Ironically, he gave the BEST reason why Israel should not go back to the Borders that are not officially recognized.

 

[USAF 2023]

Which Palestinians signed the Armistice or Border agreements?

None! More BS Palestinian rambling.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: Borders
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come on now. Please!

Superseded or just violated?


Let's try to make some sense of this. There is an armistice line around the West Bank. This is not a border. It is not a line between two countries. The forces of Israel and the forces of Jordan shall not cross this line.

How can Palestine violate this line? It is Palestine on both sides.

(MODIFIED TIMELINE)
OK, this is the order in which it happened.
FIRST

This Agreement, having been negotiated and concluded in pursuance of the resolution of the Security Council of 16 November 1948 calling for the establishment of an armistice in order to eliminate the threat to the peace in Palestine and to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved except as provided in paragraph 3 of this article.

SOURCE: Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949​

SECOND:

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

SOURCE: The Tragedy of Palestine​

THIRD:

On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.

SOURCE: Period 9 - Jordan’s Relationship with West Bank Palestinians​

(COMMENT)

In April 1950, Jordan annexed the West Bank and Jerusalem, which had the effect of ending the Armistice and establishing a border with Israel.

In May 1967, the Arab League began pre-positioning men and materials all along key locations in preparation for war with Israel. This preparation included demanding the withdrawal of the UN Peacekeepers all along the Egyptian-Israeli Frontier as a prelude to armed conflict. In June 1967, Arab League military activity triggered the open conflict. The Arab League presented a clear and present threat in May 1967 to Israel and set the conditions for the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.

Since the outcome of the conflict in early June 1967, Israel (mostly military) has maintained control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. As far as Jordan was concerned, this land was the sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom.

In late July 1988, Jordan abdicated and abandon its sovereign control and responsibility of any territory west of the Jordan River.

Again, on 6 OCT1973, the Arab League Forces, in a surprise move, openly engaged defending border forces and began a coordinated penetration into relatively peaceful Israeli-controlled territory over the previous 6 years.

Currently, both Egypt and Jordan have secure Peace Treaties.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[USAF 2023]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: Borders
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come on now. Please!


(MODIFIED TIMELINE)
.
OK, this is the order in which it happened.
FIRST

​

SECOND:

​

THIRD:

​

(COMMENT)

In April 1950, Jordan annexed the West Bank and Jerusalem, which had the effect of ending the Armistice and establishing a border with Israel.

In May 1967, the Arab League began pre-positioning men and materials all along key locations in preparation for war with Israel. This preparation included demanding the withdrawal of the UN Peacekeepers all along the Egyptian-Israeli Frontier as a prelude to armed conflict. In June 1967, Arab League military activity triggered the open conflict. The Arab League presented a clear and present threat in May 1967 to Israel and set the conditions for the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.

Since the outcome of the conflict in early June 1967, Israel (mostly military) has maintained control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. As far as Jordan was concerned, this land was the sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom. In late July 1988, Jordan abdicated and abandon its sovereign control and responsibility of any territory west of the Jordan River.

Again, on 6 OCT1973, the Arab League Forces, in a surprise move, openly engaged defending border forces and began a coordinated penetration into relatively peaceful Israeli-controlled territory over the previous 6 years.

Currently, both Egypt and Jordan have secure Peace Treaties.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

According to Tinmore, Jordan NEVER annexed the W Bank and E Jerusalem. !
PLEASE….. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: Borders
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come on now. Please!


(MODIFIED TIMELINE)
OK, this is the order in which it happened.
FIRST

SECOND:

THIRD:

(COMMENT)

In April 1950, Jordan annexed the West Bank and Jerusalem, which had the effect of ending the Armistice and establishing a border with Israel.

In May 1967, the Arab League began pre-positioning men and materials all along key locations in preparation for war with Israel. This preparation included demanding the withdrawal of the UN Peacekeepers all along the Egyptian-Israeli Frontier as a prelude to armed conflict. In June 1967, Arab League military activity triggered the open conflict. The Arab League presented a clear and present threat in May 1967 to Israel and set the conditions for the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel.

Since the outcome of the conflict in early June 1967, Israel (mostly military) has maintained control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. As far as Jordan was concerned, this land was the sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom.

In late July 1988, Jordan abdicated and abandon its sovereign control and responsibility of any territory west of the Jordan River.

Again, on 6 OCT1973, the Arab League Forces, in a surprise move, openly engaged defending border forces and began a coordinated penetration into relatively peaceful Israeli-controlled territory over the previous 6 years.

Currently, both Egypt and Jordan have secure Peace Treaties.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

How does all that relate to my post?

 

[Hollie]

How does all that relate to my post?

^^^ Everyone knew the Tinmore Shuffle was coming.

Ten years of the same cut and paste slogans.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

^^^ Everyone knew the Tinmore Shuffle was coming.

Ten years of the same cut and paste slogans.

Ten more years and the Palestinians still won't have a country.

 

[USAF 2023]

According to Tinmore, Jordan NEVER annexed the W Bank and E Jerusalem. !
PLEASE….. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

Tinmore ACTUALLY gave me a THUMBS UP! I’ve never seen anyone so proud to be so ignorant. . Ask why prior to 67 Jordan wouldn’t allow Israelis access to their religious sites and there will be no response

 

[Hollie]

It's summer. Kids are out from school and some are going to camp where they can explore canoeing, swimming, archery, crafts... Record scratch sound effect

In the Islamic terrorist occupied territories, summer camp is all about the Islamic gee-had and Jew killing.

 

[Hollie]

Fatah is following in the footsteps of the Sunni Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza. They're going to beg and plead subservience to the Shia Mullocrats in exchange for welfare money.

Iranian-Backed Islamic Jihad Arming Fatah Terror Groups in Palestinian Authority

“The most important thing is that we strengthen the resistance; we are fully convinced that one day the existence of ‘Israel’ will end."

www.jewishpress.com

The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terrorist organization has announced it is arming terror groups linked to the Palestinian Authority’s ruling Fatah faction.