Who Are The Palestinians?

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Pay attention; this is not dumbed down.

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you are sadly mistaken. You have to read the complete thought!!!

[

An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 12 August 1922 ​

When the Administration folds it is out of a job.

(COMMENT)

You be correct to say that, when the Government Administration of Palestine (in this case the Mandatory) terminates its affiliation and relinquishes control to the successor government (in this case the Israeli Government that declared Independence) then the Article 4 authority becomes the authority of the new Independent Government (that being Israel). Then the "public body" known as the Jewish Agency comes under the authority and responsibility of the new government. Just because the old government terminates, does not mean that the function of government stops. The bills must be paid, the electric must be generated, the post office must still deliver, the water must still pump and flow, and emergency services must still operate (as examples). With "rare exceptions," all the arrangements to construct or operate, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country that the Mandatory leveraged through the Jewish Agency (to include some immigration arrangements) must continue seamlessly through the transition. Again, while the Jewish Agency no longer reported to the Mandatory after the termination, does not mean that the successor government (the Independent State of Israel) did not have the need to continue providing services to the citizenry. "The Jewish Agency continues to be the Jewish world’s first responder, prepared to address emergencies in Israel, and to rescue Jews from countries where they are at risk."

For the life of me, I cannot quite figure-out where you get these odd notions about the Jewish Agency; or its transition from Mandate management to Israeli management.

Most Respectfully,
R

You be correct to say that, when the Government Administration of Palestine (in this case the Mandatory) terminates its affiliation and relinquishes control to the successor government (in this case the Israeli Government that declared Independence)​

I thought you said that Britain relinquished control to the UNPC. If I remember correctly you documented that move.

(COMMENT)

At midnight, on 14/15 May 1948, the British terminated their responsibilities to the Mandate. At the time, the successor government to the Mandate of Palestine became the UNPC. However, moments after the Mandate terminated, the Provisional Government for the State of Israel declared Independence. The UNPC was the successor government to the territory formerly under the Mandate, less the Jordan and less the territory allocated to the Jewish State. "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein (First Special Report to the Security Council: The Problem of Security in Palestine).

Yes, the successor government was the UNPC, but not the successor to Jordan or the newly formed state of Israel. According to the "Declarative Theory of Statehood," (a legal and philosophical concept used by the ICJ) the existence of a state does not depend upon recognition by other states (ie the Arab States or the Palestinians).

I tend to think that in the future, and maybe even if the ICC comes to evaluate the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, that neither the constitutive, nor the declarative theory of statehood will be found acceptable; and that new criteria will have to be developed to determine where self-determination and occupation/extended effective control becomes de facto sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

Phoenall, P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, again, don't drag in immigration issues, or the issue of civil land ownership on a private basis. Neither if these had a direct impact on the matter of sovereignty; also some people believe that they are matter of important consideration when discussing the status of the modified (by war and conquest) Jewish State and Arab State. In fact, there is a question as to whether the issues of "illegal immigration" and "citizenship" have a critical bearing on the right of self-determination and the competing concepts of "statehood."

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

(REFERENCE)

• Declaratory And Constitutive Theories Of State Recognition In International Law
• Judicial Reasoning and the Doctrine of Precedent in State Recognition

(PREFACE)

Palestinian Statehood under International Law​

An Analysis and Discussion by John M. B. Balouziyeh, Esq.

(COMMENT)

Rather than rewrite the "Balouziyeh" Analysis, I should just let you read it for yourself. As the the author points out, "The recognition of statehood is a rather complex area of international law subject to competing tests and theories." And "Balouziyeh" was speaking directly to the question: The question of Palestine, as a State, and the two theories that provide guidance as to the legal recognition of an entity’s sovereignty in the international community:

(i) the declarative theory; and
(ii) the constitutive theory.​

This is going to become a mess. There are going to be very touchy and risky soul searching exercises over this issue. And, because of the various terrorist organizations connected to the question, there are going to be some tricky risk assessments on what can be said in the open, and what is better left unsaid.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

90% of the the land was stolen from the Christians and Muslims of Palestine by the European invaders. Israeli deeds are like monopoly money.

Mae ou

90% of the the land was stolen from the Christians and Muslims of Palestine by the European invaders. Israeli deeds are like monopoly money.

How about this for a just solution? All Israeli's & all Palestiniaans without titles or deeds to the land they live on must leave. Fair enough?

Cool, 93% of Israel is leased. The Israelis don't own anything.

Leased from the Israeli government so the people are still living on land with a title deed. The arab muslims never bothered to put this in place because they have not taken the last step, so goodbye all the arab muslims without valid land registry titles

Not that ownership of a piece of land is even relevant.

Somebody who rents an apartment in NYC has the same rights to country as someone who owns a farm in Kansas. Even homeless people have the right to nationality and citizenship.

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

The only migration to Palestine from 1920 to 1946 of any consequence was European immigration, legal and illegal. As confirmed in the UN's A/364 Report which was in prepared as part of the partition plan:

Quit lying Phoney.

"14. It will have been noticed that not only has there been a remarkably rapid increase in the total population of Palestine but also the proportion of Jews in the total has greatly increased, from 12.91 -per cent in 1922 to 32.96 per cent in 1946. Conversely, of course, the Arab proportion has fallen since 1922. The Moslem proportion of the population (almost entirely Arab) has fallen from about 75 per cent of the total to 60 per cent, and the Christian proportion (very largely Arab) from 11 per cent to 8 per cent. Thus, at the present time about one-third of the total settled population is Jewish.

(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths. Indeed, the natural rate of increase of Moslem Arabs in Palestine is the highest in recorded statistics,1 a phenomenon explained by very high fertility rates coupled with a marked decline in death rates as a result of improved conditions of life and public health, The natural rate of increase of Jews is also relatively high, but is conditioned by a favorable age distribution of the population due to the high rate of immigration.

A 364 of 3 September 1947

 

[toastman]

Mae ou
How about this for a just solution? All Israeli's & all Palestiniaans without titles or deeds to the land they live on must leave. Fair enough?

Cool, 93% of Israel is leased. The Israelis don't own anything.

Leased from the Israeli government so the people are still living on land with a title deed. The arab muslims never bothered to put this in place because they have not taken the last step, so goodbye all the arab muslims without valid land registry titles

Not that ownership of a piece of land is even relevant.

Somebody who rents an apartment in NYC has the same rights to country as someone who owns a farm in Kansas. Even homeless people have the right to nationality and citizenship.

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

The only migration to Palestine from 1920 to 1946 of any consequence was European immigration, legal and illegal. As confirmed in the UN's A/364 Report which was in prepared as part of the partition plan:

Quit lying Phoney.

"14. It will have been noticed that not only has there been a remarkably rapid increase in the total population of Palestine but also the proportion of Jews in the total has greatly increased, from 12.91 -per cent in 1922 to 32.96 per cent in 1946. Conversely, of course, the Arab proportion has fallen since 1922. The Moslem proportion of the population (almost entirely Arab) has fallen from about 75 per cent of the total to 60 per cent, and the Christian proportion (very largely Arab) from 11 per cent to 8 per cent. Thus, at the present time about one-third of the total settled population is Jewish.

(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths. Indeed, the natural rate of increase of Moslem Arabs in Palestine is the highest in recorded statistics,1 a phenomenon explained by very high fertility rates coupled with a marked decline in death rates as a result of improved conditions of life and public health, The natural rate of increase of Jews is also relatively high, but is conditioned by a favorable age distribution of the population due to the high rate of immigration.

A 364 of 3 September 1947

Just because there are no statistics on Arab migration to mandatory Palestine, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[toastman]

fanger, et al,

Yes, I believe our friend "Phoenall" is seemingly correct.

First --- the 1939 White Paper was not accepted by the League of Nations (LoN) "Permanent Mandates Commission (PMC) at their thirty-sixth session in June, 1939. The commission reported that: the policy set out in the White Paper was not in accordance with the interpretation which, in agreement with the Mandatory Power and the Council, the Commission had always placed upon the Palestine Mandate.” The RESTRICTIONS were invalid --- and outside the intentions of the LoN and the PMC.

Whereas by the aforementioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League of Nations; Preamble Para 7, Mandate for Palestine.​

The interpretation to which you suggest has placed restrictions and limitations on immigration --- was never approved or explicitly defined by the Council of the League of Nations. What implementation that was carried out --- was done so without authority.

Aliyah Bet (Hebrew: 'עלייה ב‎, "Aliyah 'B'" – bet being the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet) was the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to the British Mandate for Palestine in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions, in the years 1934-1948.
Aliyah Bet - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Firstly the Jews were invited so they cant be illegalkm immigrants

Secondly a white paper has no legal standing and can not be entered into law

Thirdly you are a complete and utter ignorant troll that will be banned from this board.

(COMMENT)

The 1939 White Papers, while written and approved by the Mandatory, --- was not approved or adopted by PMC of the LoN. There were several reasons for this:

• The immigration effort to facilitate the establishment of the Jewish National Home was not interpreted in 1939 to violate the customary laws pertaining to the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. (Articles 2, 4, and 6)
• Contrary to popular belief, the 1915 British High Commissioner in Egypt (Sir Henry McMahon), DID NOT offered the Arab Palestinians (soon to be under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration) any independent Arab state; but rather offered Sherif Hussein of Mecca an independent Arab state (Trans-Jordan, Syria /Iraq) if the Hashemite Bedouins would help the British fight against the Ottoman Turks.
• The Nazification of Germany, beginning in 1933 was in full swing by 1939. The European Leaders and Allied Powers were already aware open antisemitism became the order of the day, and on 9 November 1939 "Kristallnacht" was the effect of Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels persecution against the Jews. This demonstrated just how correct the Principle Allied Powers had been in trying to establish a Jewish National Home to protect and preserve the Jewish culture. During "Kristallnacht", nearly 1,000 synagogues were set on fire.
• During World War II Hajj Amin al-Husseini (a former WWI enemy officer in the Ottoman Army and Grand Mufti of Jerusalem) collaborated with both Italy and Germany by making propagandistic radio broadcasts and by helping the German's to recruit Bosnian Muslims for the Waffen-SS. The Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem opposed the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish National Home, and favored the Axis Powers. On the conclusion of WWII, Hajj Amin al-Husseini came under French protection, and then sought refuge in Cairo to avoid prosecution by the tribunal. Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who was later to become the first President of the All Palestine Government, was a principle in developing anti-Jewish activities in the Middle East (until about 1959).

The true nature and character of the Arab Palestinians, especially key members of the All Palestine Government, became clear in the latter part of 1938 and into 1939. By the 1941 meeting with Hitler, the reputation of the Arab Palestinian had been firmly established by this early Enemy Officer of the Ottoman Empire, Islamic Resistance leader and ally of the Palestinian Black Hand, cohort and Islamic Face for the Nazi Party in Eastern Europe, and the primary leader of the All Palestine Government .

Most Respectfully,
R

The bottom line, Rocco, is that the Mandate was to assist Palestine to independence and "there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation."

BTW, the Jewish Agency was an adviser to the mandate and served at its pleasure subject always to the control of the Administration. It had no legitimate function after the termination of the Mandate.

"It had no legitimate function after the termination of the Mandate"

Link ?

An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 12 August 1922 ​

When the Administration folds it is out of a job.

It doesn't say SOLE purpose and nowhere in your link does it say it had no legitimate function after the termination of the Mandate.

 

[montelatici]

Cool, 93% of Israel is leased. The Israelis don't own anything.

Leased from the Israeli government so the people are still living on land with a title deed. The arab muslims never bothered to put this in place because they have not taken the last step, so goodbye all the arab muslims without valid land registry titles

Not that ownership of a piece of land is even relevant.

Somebody who rents an apartment in NYC has the same rights to country as someone who owns a farm in Kansas. Even homeless people have the right to nationality and citizenship.

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

The only migration to Palestine from 1920 to 1946 of any consequence was European immigration, legal and illegal. As confirmed in the UN's A/364 Report which was in prepared as part of the partition plan:

Quit lying Phoney.

"14. It will have been noticed that not only has there been a remarkably rapid increase in the total population of Palestine but also the proportion of Jews in the total has greatly increased, from 12.91 -per cent in 1922 to 32.96 per cent in 1946. Conversely, of course, the Arab proportion has fallen since 1922. The Moslem proportion of the population (almost entirely Arab) has fallen from about 75 per cent of the total to 60 per cent, and the Christian proportion (very largely Arab) from 11 per cent to 8 per cent. Thus, at the present time about one-third of the total settled population is Jewish.

(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths. Indeed, the natural rate of increase of Moslem Arabs in Palestine is the highest in recorded statistics,1 a phenomenon explained by very high fertility rates coupled with a marked decline in death rates as a result of improved conditions of life and public health, The natural rate of increase of Jews is also relatively high, but is conditioned by a favorable age distribution of the population due to the high rate of immigration.

A 364 of 3 September 1947

Just because there are no statistics on Arab migration to mandatory Palestine, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Of course there are statistics on Arab immigration to mandatory Palestine that is how the report was able to determine that "The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."

What part of that statement do you not understand?

 

[toastman]

Leased from the Israeli government so the people are still living on land with a title deed. The arab muslims never bothered to put this in place because they have not taken the last step, so goodbye all the arab muslims without valid land registry titles

Not that ownership of a piece of land is even relevant.

Somebody who rents an apartment in NYC has the same rights to country as someone who owns a farm in Kansas. Even homeless people have the right to nationality and citizenship.

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

The only migration to Palestine from 1920 to 1946 of any consequence was European immigration, legal and illegal. As confirmed in the UN's A/364 Report which was in prepared as part of the partition plan:

Quit lying Phoney.

"14. It will have been noticed that not only has there been a remarkably rapid increase in the total population of Palestine but also the proportion of Jews in the total has greatly increased, from 12.91 -per cent in 1922 to 32.96 per cent in 1946. Conversely, of course, the Arab proportion has fallen since 1922. The Moslem proportion of the population (almost entirely Arab) has fallen from about 75 per cent of the total to 60 per cent, and the Christian proportion (very largely Arab) from 11 per cent to 8 per cent. Thus, at the present time about one-third of the total settled population is Jewish.

(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths. Indeed, the natural rate of increase of Moslem Arabs in Palestine is the highest in recorded statistics,1 a phenomenon explained by very high fertility rates coupled with a marked decline in death rates as a result of improved conditions of life and public health, The natural rate of increase of Jews is also relatively high, but is conditioned by a favorable age distribution of the population due to the high rate of immigration.

A 364 of 3 September 1947

Just because there are no statistics on Arab migration to mandatory Palestine, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Of course there are statistics on Arab immigration to mandatory Palestine that is how the report was able to determine that "The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."

What part of that statement do you not understand?

Where are the stats provided by the same people who made that comment ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Phoenall, P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, again, don't drag in immigration issues, or the issue of civil land ownership on a private basis. Neither if these had a direct impact on the matter of sovereignty; also some people believe that they are matter of important consideration when discussing the status of the modified (by war and conquest) Jewish State and Arab State. In fact, there is a question as to whether the issues of "illegal immigration" and "citizenship" have a critical bearing on the right of self-determination and the competing concepts of "statehood."

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

(REFERENCE)

• Declaratory And Constitutive Theories Of State Recognition In International Law
• Judicial Reasoning and the Doctrine of Precedent in State Recognition

(PREFACE)

Palestinian Statehood under International Law​

An Analysis and Discussion by John M. B. Balouziyeh, Esq.

(COMMENT)

Rather than rewrite the "Balouziyeh" Analysis, I should just let you read it for yourself. As the the author points out, "The recognition of statehood is a rather complex area of international law subject to competing tests and theories." And "Balouziyeh" was speaking directly to the question: The question of Palestine, as a State, and the two theories that provide guidance as to the legal recognition of an entity’s sovereignty in the international community:

(i) the declarative theory; and
(ii) the constitutive theory.​

This is going to become a mess. There are going to be very touchy and risky soul searching exercises over this issue. And, because of the various terrorist organizations connected to the question, there are going to be some tricky risk assessments on what can be said in the open, and what is better left unsaid.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your link: Palestinian Statehood under International Law
is a critique of Palestinian statehood in reference to the 2012 UN resolution. This is considerably after the fact in reference to my post.

It would be hard to argue that Israel does not have a government or a population. However, its territory has been in dispute since the country declared its existence in 1948.

If all that mattered were the Montevideo criteria, any warlord or group that could assemble enough force could carve out a new State simply by controlling a territory and nothing else.

What Makes a State The New International Law

Palestine’s territory is subject to much dispute, with some proponents of a Palestinian state arguing that Palestine encompasses the territory of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and other advocates arguing that Palestine encompasses all of modern day Israel, which they contend is not a legitimate State. The question of a “defined territory” is thus subject to much dispute.

Palestinian Statehood under International Law​

 

[montelatici]

Here you are on page 185. You see the facts are on my side Mr. Propaganda.

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

 

[toastman]

Here you are on page 185. You see the facts are on my side Mr. Propaganda.

View attachment 40980

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

If facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian pro facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian propagandists yet you have establishes yourself as one of the buggest propsganda spewers here..you are number two after Tinmore

 

[montelatici]

Here you are on page 185. You see the facts are on my side Mr. Propaganda.

View attachment 40980

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

If facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian pro facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian propagandists yet you have establishes yourself as one of the buggest propsganda spewers here..you are number two after Tinmore

The problem is that you believe that posting fact that contradicts Zionist/Israeli lies is propaganda. Posting fact is not propaganda, can't you quite grasp that fact?

 

[montelatici]

Phoenall, P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, again, don't drag in immigration issues, or the issue of civil land ownership on a private basis. Neither if these had a direct impact on the matter of sovereignty; also some people believe that they are matter of important consideration when discussing the status of the modified (by war and conquest) Jewish State and Arab State. In fact, there is a question as to whether the issues of "illegal immigration" and "citizenship" have a critical bearing on the right of self-determination and the competing concepts of "statehood."

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

(REFERENCE)

• Declaratory And Constitutive Theories Of State Recognition In International Law
• Judicial Reasoning and the Doctrine of Precedent in State Recognition

(PREFACE)

Palestinian Statehood under International Law​

An Analysis and Discussion by John M. B. Balouziyeh, Esq.

(COMMENT)

Rather than rewrite the "Balouziyeh" Analysis, I should just let you read it for yourself. As the the author points out, "The recognition of statehood is a rather complex area of international law subject to competing tests and theories." And "Balouziyeh" was speaking directly to the question: The question of Palestine, as a State, and the two theories that provide guidance as to the legal recognition of an entity’s sovereignty in the international community:

(i) the declarative theory; and
(ii) the constitutive theory.​

This is going to become a mess. There are going to be very touchy and risky soul searching exercises over this issue. And, because of the various terrorist organizations connected to the question, there are going to be some tricky risk assessments on what can be said in the open, and what is better left unsaid.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are correct in differentiating sovereignty from private land ownership, but one of the many Zionist myths that many of the Israel firsters ascribe to is that the European Jews purchased the land in Palestine which became Israel. This is untrue.

As far as immigration/migration, this is another Zionist myth that these same posters believe which claims that the Christians and Muslims migrated to Palestine. This is also patently untrue, as the record shows the European Jews made up the vast majority of the migrants to Palestine, about 95%.

And, what cannot be denied is that Israel was a latter day European colonial project, regardless of the purported legality of the project. So, in simple terms, Europeans went to the Middle East to evict the local population to create their own colony and subsequently declare itself a state at the expense of the local, indigenous people.

 

[toastman]

Here you are on page 185. You see the facts are on my side Mr. Propaganda.

View attachment 40980

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

If facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian pro facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian propagandists yet you have establishes yourself as one of the buggest propsganda spewers here..you are number two after Tinmore

The problem is that you believe that posting fact that contradicts Zionist/Israeli lies is propaganda. Posting fact is not propaganda, can't you quite grasp that fact?

All someone has to do is read your posts to see that your biggest enemy is the truth. I never said that your stats about Arab immigration were false BTW.

But you think that because you post a few documents here and there, that you only post facts. Of course, that is not true. It doesn't take a genius to see that you mainly post Palestinian propaganda and lies, and that you allergic to the truth. Now THOSE are facts, whether you try to deny it or not.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to change your propaganda ways, and stop with your compulsive lying.

 

[toastman]

Phoenall, P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, again, don't drag in immigration issues, or the issue of civil land ownership on a private basis. Neither if these had a direct impact on the matter of sovereignty; also some people believe that they are matter of important consideration when discussing the status of the modified (by war and conquest) Jewish State and Arab State. In fact, there is a question as to whether the issues of "illegal immigration" and "citizenship" have a critical bearing on the right of self-determination and the competing concepts of "statehood."

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

(REFERENCE)

• Declaratory And Constitutive Theories Of State Recognition In International Law
• Judicial Reasoning and the Doctrine of Precedent in State Recognition

(PREFACE)

Palestinian Statehood under International Law​

An Analysis and Discussion by John M. B. Balouziyeh, Esq.

(COMMENT)

Rather than rewrite the "Balouziyeh" Analysis, I should just let you read it for yourself. As the the author points out, "The recognition of statehood is a rather complex area of international law subject to competing tests and theories." And "Balouziyeh" was speaking directly to the question: The question of Palestine, as a State, and the two theories that provide guidance as to the legal recognition of an entity’s sovereignty in the international community:

(i) the declarative theory; and
(ii) the constitutive theory.​

This is going to become a mess. There are going to be very touchy and risky soul searching exercises over this issue. And, because of the various terrorist organizations connected to the question, there are going to be some tricky risk assessments on what can be said in the open, and what is better left unsaid.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are correct in differentiating sovereignty from private land ownership, but one of the many Zionist myths that many of the Israel firsters ascribe to is that the European Jews purchased the land in Palestine which became Israel. This is untrue.

As far as immigration/migration, this is another Zionist myth that these same posters believe which claims that the Christians and Muslims migrated to Palestine. This is also patently untrue, as the record shows the European Jews made up the vast majority of the migrants to Palestine, about 95%.

And, what cannot be denied is that Israel was a latter day European colonial project, regardless of the purported legality of the project. So, in simple terms, Europeans went to the Middle East to evict the local population to create their own colony and subsequently declare itself a state at the expense of the local, indigenous people.

You're just too funny Monti
You accuse others of posting myths, and then you come up with the bold, which is the biggest myth of all .

Once again, you prove to us that you are the KING OF PROPAGANDA !

 

[montelatici]

Here you are on page 185. You see the facts are on my side Mr. Propaganda.

View attachment 40980

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

If facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian pro facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian propagandists yet you have establishes yourself as one of the buggest propsganda spewers here..you are number two after Tinmore

The problem is that you believe that posting fact that contradicts Zionist/Israeli lies is propaganda. Posting fact is not propaganda, can't you quite grasp that fact?

All someone has to do is read your posts to see that your biggest enemy is the truth. I never said that your stats about Arab immigration were false BTW.

But you think that because you post a few documents here and there, that you only post facts. Of course, that is not true. It doesn't take a genius to see that you mainly post Palestinian propaganda and lies, and that you allergic to the truth. Now THOSE are facts, whether you try to deny it or not.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to change your propaganda ways, and stop with your compulsive lying.

No, the facts are what they are. LoN, Mandatory and UN resolutions and reports are facts, not lies. It is not propaganda, which is what you peddle. It is you who compulsively propagate lies. I only post fact. Just making false claims does not make what you post true.

 

[toastman]

Here you are on page 185. You see the facts are on my side Mr. Propaganda.

View attachment 40980

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

If facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian pro facts are on your side, then why do you always lie and post so much propaganda on a daily basis. You have been here less time than most Palestinian propagandists yet you have establishes yourself as one of the buggest propsganda spewers here..you are number two after Tinmore

The problem is that you believe that posting fact that contradicts Zionist/Israeli lies is propaganda. Posting fact is not propaganda, can't you quite grasp that fact?

All someone has to do is read your posts to see that your biggest enemy is the truth. I never said that your stats about Arab immigration were false BTW.

But you think that because you post a few documents here and there, that you only post facts. Of course, that is not true. It doesn't take a genius to see that you mainly post Palestinian propaganda and lies, and that you allergic to the truth. Now THOSE are facts, whether you try to deny it or not.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to change your propaganda ways, and stop with your compulsive lying.

No, the facts are what they are. LoN, Mandatory and UN resolutions and reports are facts, not lies. It is not propaganda, which is what you peddle. It is you who compulsively propagate lies. I only post fact. Just making false claims does not make what you post true.

I didn't say the documents you posted are lies. You must have reading comprehension problems.

I don't care if you keep denying that you are a liar and propagandist because it will not change the truth that you are. BIG time !

 

[toastman]

BTW, people like you who keep running around claiming "I post facts all the time, I post facts !!!" , are actually the same people who lie all the time. Sorry Monti, but posting the occasional fact doesn't take away from your compulsive lying and immense propaganda.

 

[montelatici]

BTW, people like you who keep running around claiming "I post facts all the time, I post facts !!!" , are actually the same people who lie all the time. Sorry Monti, but posting the occasional fact doesn't take away from your compulsive lying and immense propaganda.

I only provide the facts from source documents. I never lie, I just post what the source documents state. I don't post fact occasionally, I post fact all the time. You can make all the false claims you want. Facts are not propaganda, your propagation of Zionist lies is propaganda. I really don't know why I even argue with you. You just can't accept the facts.

 

[toastman]

BTW, people like you who keep running around claiming "I post facts all the time, I post facts !!!" , are actually the same people who lie all the time. Sorry Monti, but posting the occasional fact doesn't take away from your compulsive lying and immense propaganda.

I only provide the facts from source documents. I never lie, I just post what the source documents state. I don't post fact occasionally, I post fact all the time. You can make all the false claims you want. Facts are not propaganda, your propagation of Zionist lies is propaganda. I really don't know why I even argue with you. You just can't accept the facts.

Funny how you say you only post facts, when I have refuted soooo many of your bullshit lies. Every week I refute your posts and you cannot handle that.

 

[Phoenall]

Mae ou
How about this for a just solution? All Israeli's & all Palestiniaans without titles or deeds to the land they live on must leave. Fair enough?

Cool, 93% of Israel is leased. The Israelis don't own anything.

Leased from the Israeli government so the people are still living on land with a title deed. The arab muslims never bothered to put this in place because they have not taken the last step, so goodbye all the arab muslims without valid land registry titles

Not that ownership of a piece of land is even relevant.

Somebody who rents an apartment in NYC has the same rights to country as someone who owns a farm in Kansas. Even homeless people have the right to nationality and citizenship.

But they don't have the rights to my land or country do they, and that is what you don't or cant understand. The arab muslims migrated illegally to Palestine to steal land after the Jews had made it productive, a very common tactic of the arab muslims. Without the certificate of citizenship the people are illegal immigrants, and they need to have the land title so they can pay their taxes and other dues. The later is where the arab muslims fail as they don't want to pay taxes or be liable for conscription.

The only migration to Palestine from 1920 to 1946 of any consequence was European immigration, legal and illegal. As confirmed in the UN's A/364 Report which was in prepared as part of the partition plan:

Quit lying Phoney.

"14. It will have been noticed that not only has there been a remarkably rapid increase in the total population of Palestine but also the proportion of Jews in the total has greatly increased, from 12.91 -per cent in 1922 to 32.96 per cent in 1946. Conversely, of course, the Arab proportion has fallen since 1922. The Moslem proportion of the population (almost entirely Arab) has fallen from about 75 per cent of the total to 60 per cent, and the Christian proportion (very largely Arab) from 11 per cent to 8 per cent. Thus, at the present time about one-third of the total settled population is Jewish.

(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths. Indeed, the natural rate of increase of Moslem Arabs in Palestine is the highest in recorded statistics,1 a phenomenon explained by very high fertility rates coupled with a marked decline in death rates as a result of improved conditions of life and public health, The natural rate of increase of Jews is also relatively high, but is conditioned by a favorable age distribution of the population due to the high rate of immigration.

A 364 of 3 September 1947

After seeing the white paper destroyed by the LoN you still run with the Jews being illegal immigrants. Not one Jews migrated to Palestine illegally while the Mandate was in force, but as your links show the arab muslims made up the vast majority of illegal immigrants. Why do you post RACIST LIES fred, is it because you are one of the fascists that supports the final solution.