Who is the most underrated NBA player in history? My 2 submissions.

[Fiero425]

Durant has been more of an assassin than James. I wish him, Westbrook and harden would have stayed together

Like Golden State, with that much EGO on the floor, you need a destructive force to deal w/ like a Drayond Green! I could have told you that Brooklyn Net dream, turned nightmare was gonna be a huge fail! Players trying to be GM's of their own team gets you "The Lakers!" When will they learn? The money's too plentiful so winning is almost secondary! I barely watch the regular seasons! Just surfing by periodically shows a "comedy of errors" on the floor which really ticks me off!

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Durant has been more of an assassin than James.

LOL. Care to give any reason as to how that's true?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Tim Duncan is under rated. He may be the best power forward ever. Not center. No small forward.

or was he a small forward? Whatever he was, I’ve heard people say he is the best at that position he played. Do you agree?

Tim Duncan will be underrated by modern sports fan absolutely. He lacks the style factor that youthful content creators look for when they spew their ideals of what a great basketball player is to the masses. I've seen many players who are exalted by street ball culture but aren't as high of status in NBA history as Duncan.. such as Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade, and Kobe Bryant (they might be on the same plane).

Duncan already is somewhat underrated, and he's going to become VERY underrated very fast because he's not a sexy player .

How about Durant?

I think it's been proven that Durant was semi overrated. His career on the ascent was just how he, or anyone, would want it to be. He and Westbrook led the Thunder to the finals and lost, which is no crime as they were a young team. Then Durant kept losing the playoffs until...

Until he made the choice that completely neutered any claim he may have wanted to make that he's an alpha dog. He lost the Warriors in the Western Conference finals to the 73-9 Warriors, and then tucked his tail between his legs, took his prime MVP self, and joined another MVP in his prime Steph Curry.

Durant will never outlive that. Not only because of what it was when it happened, but what he's produced since. He went to the Nets and played with other stars and completely bombed, and now is in Phoenix with tons of talent and getting bounced in the first round.

Durant is comparable to (my favorite player of all time) Dominique Wilkins. An all-time great scoring talent who rivaled the greatest of his era (Dominique vs. Jordan was a huge rivalry), but couldn't beat him.

How about Kyree? Like, if Kyree wins another one. Should he be put in the top 50?

It depends on who the top 50 are.

 

[sealybobo]

LOL. Care to give any reason as to how that's true?

Every guy on the Celtics is more of an assassin than Lebron is. And they aren't even as talented as he is. They just want the ball in their hands or aren't looking to pass when the games on the line.

You got me on this one. Kobe and Lebron are tied for most playoff game winning shots

NBA Game Winning Shots -- leading players

Which players are the best in the closing moments with a game on the line? 82games.com seeks out the answers in this look at game winning shot stats.

www.82games.com

Jordan won a lot of championships, and personally hit a lot of clutch shots, but there were also games where classic second/third option guys like Paxson and Kerr were the ones benefiting from his greatness by getting open looks and delivering...

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Every guy on the Celtics is more of an assassin than Lebron is.

What is your metric for being an “assassin”…

And they aren't even as talented as he is. They just want the ball in their hands or aren't looking to pass when the games on the line.
Jordan won a lot of championships, and personally hit a lot of clutch shots, but there were also games where classic second/third option guys like Paxson and Kerr were the ones benefiting from his greatness by getting open looks and delivering...

Wouldn’t that be Jordan passing when the game is on the line and not being an “assassin”?

LOL

You’re so deluded. Here you have framed the same play completely differently based on just your own bias.

1. If Lebron passes to the open man with the game on the line, he’s not an “assassin” and doesn’t want the ball in husnhands

2. If MJ passes the ball to the open man with the same on the line, it was the other player “benefitting from MJ’s greatness”

LMAO

 

[sealybobo]

What is your metric for being an “assassin”…

Wouldn’t that be Jordan passing when the game is on the line and not being an “assassin”?

LOL

You’re so deluded. Here you have framed the same play completely differently based on just your own bias.

1. If Lebron passes to the open man with the game on the line, he’s not an “assassin” and doesn’t want the ball in husnhands

2. If MJ passes the ball to the open man with the same on the line, it was the other player “benefitting from MJ’s greatness”

LMAO

Lots of reasons to say Lebron is the GOAT but those 6 championships erase all those arguments.

Sometimes Steve Kerr hit the game winner. Because he was wide open.

According to NBA.com/stats, a "wide open" 3-pointer happens with six or more feet of room between the shooter and the defender. An "open" 3-pointer happens with 4-6 feet of room, a "tightly" contested 3-pointer comes with 2-4 feet of room and a "very tightly" contested 3-pointer comes with 0-2 feet of room.

For instance, if you're playing the Warriors, you're doing all you can to not allow Steph Curry or Klay Thompson to get a wide-open look at a 3-pointer. That means the Draymond Greens of the world, as a consequence, get left alone to fire at will and defenses takes their chances.

So which teams were the best at knocking down wide-open 3-pointers last season? Which players on those teams came through and which players failed?

8.

Cleveland Cavaliers​

• 39.9 percent on wide-open 3-pointers, 41.3 percent of their 3-point attempts

Who was the most reliable guy defenses left open? Kevin Love led all shooters in the NBA with wide-open 3-point looks at 249 and knocked down 39.4 percent of them. J.R. Smith was excellent with 43.3 percent on 178 shots and Matthew Dellavedova earned big money with 44.9 percent on 118 attempts. Richard Jefferson also emerged as a guy not to leave, knocking down 48.3 percent of his 58 attempts.

Who was the least reliable guy defenses left open? Kyrie Irving and Iman Shumpert were the main guys who failed to really help the Cavs on wide-open shots. Irving made 36.8 percent on 95 attempts and Shumpert hit 35.4 percent of 65 attempts. And while Channing Frye was hot in the playoffs, he made just 35.7 percent of 56 attempts after leaving Orlando for Cleveland in a mid-season trade. Big surprise is LeBron James for not being that bad. His outside jumper has been awful since returning to Cleveland, but he did make 37.6 percent of 93 wide-open 3-pointers. It's below league average but not awful.

This kind of argues for Lebron. His teammates were wide open because of him. Listen, I love the guy. But Jordan B #1.

 

[22lcidw]

Lots of reasons to say Lebron is the GOAT but those 6 championships erase all those arguments.

Sometimes Steve Kerr hit the game winner. Because he was wide open.

According to NBA.com/stats, a "wide open" 3-pointer happens with six or more feet of room between the shooter and the defender. An "open" 3-pointer happens with 4-6 feet of room, a "tightly" contested 3-pointer comes with 2-4 feet of room and a "very tightly" contested 3-pointer comes with 0-2 feet of room.

For instance, if you're playing the Warriors, you're doing all you can to not allow Steph Curry or Klay Thompson to get a wide-open look at a 3-pointer. That means the Draymond Greens of the world, as a consequence, get left alone to fire at will and defenses takes their chances.

So which teams were the best at knocking down wide-open 3-pointers last season? Which players on those teams came through and which players failed?

8.

Cleveland Cavaliers​

• 39.9 percent on wide-open 3-pointers, 41.3 percent of their 3-point attempts

Who was the most reliable guy defenses left open? Kevin Love led all shooters in the NBA with wide-open 3-point looks at 249 and knocked down 39.4 percent of them. J.R. Smith was excellent with 43.3 percent on 178 shots and Matthew Dellavedova earned big money with 44.9 percent on 118 attempts. Richard Jefferson also emerged as a guy not to leave, knocking down 48.3 percent of his 58 attempts.

Who was the least reliable guy defenses left open? Kyrie Irving and Iman Shumpert were the main guys who failed to really help the Cavs on wide-open shots. Irving made 36.8 percent on 95 attempts and Shumpert hit 35.4 percent of 65 attempts. And while Channing Frye was hot in the playoffs, he made just 35.7 percent of 56 attempts after leaving Orlando for Cleveland in a mid-season trade. Big surprise is LeBron James for not being that bad. His outside jumper has been awful since returning to Cleveland, but he did make 37.6 percent of 93 wide-open 3-pointers. It's below league average but not awful.

This kind of argues for Lebron. His teammates were wide open because of him. Listen, I love the guy. But Jordan B #1.

Jordan did it with one team. James rented himself out to several teams and formed super teams with other players. Does not take away from his great play. It seems cities are lucky to have great teams formed from free agency and the top players signed. In recent years, at least different teams have won some championships and that is refreshing. It gives hope for others.

 

[Couchpotato]

Lots of reasons to say Lebron is the GOAT but those 6 championships erase all those arguments.

Sometimes Steve Kerr hit the game winner. Because he was wide open.

According to NBA.com/stats, a "wide open" 3-pointer happens with six or more feet of room between the shooter and the defender. An "open" 3-pointer happens with 4-6 feet of room, a "tightly" contested 3-pointer comes with 2-4 feet of room and a "very tightly" contested 3-pointer comes with 0-2 feet of room.

For instance, if you're playing the Warriors, you're doing all you can to not allow Steph Curry or Klay Thompson to get a wide-open look at a 3-pointer. That means the Draymond Greens of the world, as a consequence, get left alone to fire at will and defenses takes their chances.

So which teams were the best at knocking down wide-open 3-pointers last season? Which players on those teams came through and which players failed?

8.

Cleveland Cavaliers​

• 39.9 percent on wide-open 3-pointers, 41.3 percent of their 3-point attempts

Who was the most reliable guy defenses left open? Kevin Love led all shooters in the NBA with wide-open 3-point looks at 249 and knocked down 39.4 percent of them. J.R. Smith was excellent with 43.3 percent on 178 shots and Matthew Dellavedova earned big money with 44.9 percent on 118 attempts. Richard Jefferson also emerged as a guy not to leave, knocking down 48.3 percent of his 58 attempts.

Who was the least reliable guy defenses left open? Kyrie Irving and Iman Shumpert were the main guys who failed to really help the Cavs on wide-open shots. Irving made 36.8 percent on 95 attempts and Shumpert hit 35.4 percent of 65 attempts. And while Channing Frye was hot in the playoffs, he made just 35.7 percent of 56 attempts after leaving Orlando for Cleveland in a mid-season trade. Big surprise is LeBron James for not being that bad. His outside jumper has been awful since returning to Cleveland, but he did make 37.6 percent of 93 wide-open 3-pointers. It's below league average but not awful.

This kind of argues for Lebron. His teammates were wide open because of him. Listen, I love the guy. But Jordan B #1.

Jordon’s DPOY stats faked………. LOL

 

[Couchpotato]

Lots of reasons to say Lebron is the GOAT but those 6 championships erase all those arguments.

So Bill Russell is your GOAT then. Last I checked 11 > 6. By a wide margin.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

So Bill Russell is your GOAT then. Last I checked 11 > 6. By a wide margin.

It’s all about number of team Championships until it isn’t… lol

 

[lantern2814]

What is your metric for being an “assassin”…

Wouldn’t that be Jordan passing when the game is on the line and not being an “assassin”?

LOL

You’re so deluded. Here you have framed the same play completely differently based on just your own bias.

1. If Lebron passes to the open man with the game on the line, he’s not an “assassin” and doesn’t want the ball in husnhands

2. If MJ passes the ball to the open man with the same on the line, it was the other player “benefitting from MJ’s greatness”

LMAO

The true superstars definitely want the ball at big moments. The true ELITE players know that sometimes giving up the ball to the open man is the smarter play. Now if that open man misses the shot, then yes, a lot of questions will be asked as to why Jordan, James, etc. didn't take the shot despite making what was the right play at that moment.

 

[sealybobo]

Jordon’s DPOY stats faked………. LOL

Don’t know what that means. NBA current and past players agree Jordan is the GOAT

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Don’t know what that means. NBA current and past players agree Jordan is the GOAT

100% of all of em? 75% of em? No.

You have to make your case on merits, not “well some other guy said so”

 

[Couchpotato]

Don’t know what that means. NBA current and past players agree Jordan is the GOAT

That the Bulls padded Jordan's defensive stats the year he won DPOY. It's one of the main arguments for Jordan and against LeBron. Jordan was so much better on defense, he won a DPOY the same year he lead the league in scoring. Do you even know the arguments?

 

[sealybobo]

100% of all of em? 75% of em? No.

You have to make your case on merits, not “well some other guy said so”

Those in the know. Those who I value their opinion, say MJ

 

[Couchpotato]

Those in the know. Those who I value their opinion, say MJ

You just value those who say MJ.. LOL. You can't actually make a cogent argument for your take.

 

[Billo_Really]

In no particular order

1. Moses Malone
3 time NBA MVP
13 Time All star
4 time all NBA first team
6 time rebounding leader
1 NBA championship
1 NBA Finals MVP
11th all time scoring leader
Top Scoring Averages: 31.1, 27.8, 25.8, 24.8
Top Rebounding Averages: 15.3, 14.8, 14.7, 14.5
Career Playoff Average: 22.1ppg, 13.8rpg


2. Elgin Baylor
All NBA First team 10 times
Rookie of the year in 1958-59
11 time all star
Finished 2nd in MVP one year, 3rd in MVP 3 times

This guy doesn't have the "leads the league" stats (he played in the era of Wilt), but is a total beast. Look at his first 5 years in the league
1958-59: 24.9 ppg, 15 rpg, 4.3 apg
1959-60: 29.6 ppg, 16.4 rpg, 3.5 apg
1960-61: 34.8 ppg, 19.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
1961-62: 38.3 ppg, 18.6 rpg, 4.6 apg
1962-63: 34.0 ppg, 14.3 rpg, 4.6 apg

Throughout the 60's afterwards he had points per game scores of: 25.4, 27.1, 16.6, 26.6, 26.0, 24.8, and 24.0
Rebounds of: 12.0, 12.8, 9.6, 12.8, 12.2, 10.6, 10.4

I agree with Elgin Baylor. He was better than Michael.

 

[Couchpotato]

Those in the know. Those who I value their opinion, say MJ

Just to be clear.

There was debate over which was the GOAT in 2018 and before. That was 6+ years ago. Since then, LeBron has remained a top 5-10 player in the league, become the all-time scoring leader, moved ahead on the all-time assist list (will for sure get to 3rd on that list and probably 2nd) , and won a championship. Im not really sure how there could be questions about who the GOAT 6 years of top 5-10 play, and a championship ago and there still be a debate.

 

[sealybobo]

You just value those who say MJ.. LOL. You can't actually make a cogent argument for your take.

I've made enough of an argument. You won't be moved. I heard "them" talking about this recently and without calling out Lebron, they basically said Lebron doesn't have what it takes to be the goat.

Let me give you an example. Did you see what Butler did in Miami last year? How about what Luka does on a nightly basis? Or Brunson? Lebron doesn't have that "i'm going to take over this team and will it to win". Where he leaves everyone shaking their heads.

If Lebron has these moments, I don't remember them. Probably because they are too far and few in between.

How many championships does Lebron have? He was amazing in Miami? No he wasn't. He under delivered. Cleveland? Lucky Green was out 2 games and Kyree stepped up. Lakers championship in the bubble? Was he amazing that year because I didn't watch.

Jordan as AMAZING 6 years. All the way to the fucking finals. He led that team, he dominated. Jordan went to the finals 6 times and he was the MVP all 6 times. Not even a close second. Pippen? Ha!