Who should own and control the means of production?

[Bern80]

Bingo!

Give this poster the "Astutest Observation of the Day" award.

FREE TRADE and nationalism are fundamentally at odds with one another.

Some of you right wingers who are fearful of that ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, but who are also FREE TRADERS really need to rethink that position.

You can have nations or you can have INTERNATIONALIST CORPORATIONS LIBERATED FROM NATIONAL IDENTITIES BY FREE TRADE, but you really can't have both and still think that NATIONS are going to be the dominate powerbase in which mankind is governed.

Once CAPITAL became GLOBALIZED (and thanks most to free trade it absolutely needed to be) the entire concept of nationhood became antiquated as a buggy whip..

NATIONHOOD and a GLOBAL ECONOMY makes no more sense than capitalism and democracy makes sense in Monarchist societies.

Why? The movement toward a global economy is not a light switch where suddenly we weren't one the day before and now we are. The economy has become more global over years and years. So if the above is correct why is it we have not seen more uniformity among nations in terms of regulations and governence? Why haven't we seen the assimilation of nations into each other?

The nation-state has been rendered obsolete and powerless.

Dailymotion - The Corporation _ The Corporation - a Film & TV video

How so? Last I checked China had it's own government with its own laws and we have ours. Their government is structured there way and ours is constructed our way.

 

[JBeukema]

1) watch the video

2) ask yourself who's writing the bills 'our own' congress keeps passing when you can't find anyone who says they want these laws enacted

We are witnessing the end of the age of the nation-state as it was. Now it shall serve as the means by which the corporations exercise control over the masses. No longer is capital subject to legislation by the State, but the State shall be subject to the will of capital.

 

[Contumacious]

Incorrect, piracy is a crime.

Not if the Law doesn't define it as such.

Hummmmmmmmmm

Very interrrrrrrrrrrrrrrresting


OK, Inspector Clouseau, in Nazi Germany , it was not against the Law to incinerate/gas Jews.

So, is it your opinion that no crime was committed?

Capitalism recognizes no rights.

Really, so, there is no difference between socialism, fascism and capitalism? So what, in your opinion, is the name of the socio-economic system which recognizes rights?

Just look at the sweatshops or the colonies. Look at conditions prior to the labour movement and socialist reform.

OK, have you studied the conditions that prevailed before the industrial revolution? Why do you considered being be a slave of the state better than contracting to work with a Capitalist?

.

.

 

[Intense]

Hardly, I could work you into the ground.

I loathe the distortion of ideas to meet political agendas and I loathe the status quo.

Hey I am the very kind of innovator capitalism is made to reward, and I like that. And it has.

But capitalism and socialism are just the first things that a primitive society with technology far in advance of their organizational skills tried, in vain, to rely on as a life support regulating mechanism.

Key concepts being:

>Life support system of the species

>primitive society just beginning to organize itself and test it's options

>the obvious failure of both capitalism and socialism to date

>the mind numbing resistance to try new means when our former means are so obviously FUBAR

It is not Capitalism and the Free Market that have failed, It's bad ideas and practices that have failed. There are Principles we should not have abandoned.

That's like saying 'anarchism doesn't fail, not having laws and a system to combat rape and murder fails'

Capitalism, like anarchy, fails because Man is Man.

All things generally fail when neglected and principle is ignored, man being man.

Free Market Capitalism is not similar to Anarchy. My memory of my Anarchist friends would suggest that the one rule of Anarchy is that Anarchy has no rules. Our system of Federalism does have rules expressing the consent of the governed and the ability to change and adapt through due process. Our problems come with every exception to that.

 

[Intense]

It is not Capitalism and the Free Market that have failed, It's bad ideas and practices that have failed. There are Principles we should not have abandoned.

Bad ideas?

Tell me something, is slavery, indentured servitude, or wage slavery bad ideas? I ask because they are all part of capitalism.

Was Enron a "bad idea" or was it capitalism at its finest?

If you look at the economy before the FED it was one of enormous boom and bust cycles. In fact I think it is safe to say that capitalism will always eventually fail if it is not properly regulated. So is capitalism a "bad idea?"

And if you think about it, Bush Jr took a robust economy and turned it into dog crap in just eight years and he was a "free market kind of guy!"

No, it isn't "bad ideas." It's the human ontology.

humanity fails

Yes, let's go back to chasing our tails. I maintain that our reason for being out weighs the tangents we create. I will probably die maintaining hope for mankind.

 

[JBeukema]

Why do you considered being be a slave of the state better than contracting to work with a Capitalist?

.

.

I'd answer that, but it seems to be nothing more than a nonsensical string of babbling stupidity.

 

[Bern80]

OK, the incentive is the prospect of of never ending more, more, more material reward. Greed is the ambition. They are joined at the hip in reality and only separated by semantics in the realm of language.

To which I again contend what you call greed is simply a person's desire to have control of their life.

 

[Intense]

Bingo!

Give this poster the "Astutest Observation of the Day" award.

FREE TRADE and nationalism are fundamentally at odds with one another.

Some of you right wingers who are fearful of that ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, but who are also FREE TRADERS really need to rethink that position.

You can have nations or you can have INTERNATIONALIST CORPORATIONS LIBERATED FROM NATIONAL IDENTITIES BY FREE TRADE, but you really can't have both and still think that NATIONS are going to be the dominate powerbase in which mankind is governed.

Once CAPITAL became GLOBALIZED (and thanks most to free trade it absolutely needed to be) the entire concept of nationhood became antiquated as a buggy whip..

NATIONHOOD and a GLOBAL ECONOMY makes no more sense than capitalism and democracy makes sense in Monarchist societies.

Why? The movement toward a global economy is not a light switch where suddenly we weren't one the day before and now we are. The economy has become more global over years and years. So if the above is correct why is it we have not seen more uniformity among nations in terms of regulations and governence? Why haven't we seen the assimilation of nations into each other?

The nation-state has been rendered obsolete and powerless.

Dailymotion - The Corporation _ The Corporation - a Film & TV video

I would disagree, at the same time advising to be very careful of what treaties and contracts we sign. We are in grave danger there.

 

[Intense]

1) watch the video

2) ask yourself who's writing the bills 'our own' congress keeps passing when you can't find anyone who says they want these laws enacted

We are witnessing the end of the age of the nation-state as it was. Now it shall serve as the means by which the corporations exercise control over the masses. No longer is capital subject to legislation by the State, but the State shall be subject to the will of capital.

You should realize that even Corporations answer to a higher power on earth, the hidden Oligarchy, and realize there are many ways we are being played.

 

[JBeukema]

Free Market Capitalism is not similar to Anarchy.

Those who advocate a 'free market' always reveal themselves as advocates of market anarchy. They seek to empower capital to circumvent the authority of the nation-state and return us to something approximating feudalism. The only freedom of the 'free market' and 'free trade' which they espouse is capital's freedom from all restraints upon the exploitation of the common man and the bourgeoisie's freedom from the limits once placed upon their powers by socialist progress.

In reality, the market cannot exist without being less than wholly free, for the absence of standards and regulation and limits upon the growth and power of corporations and private interests has always lead us to oligarchy, tyranny, exploitation, and oppression.

 

[JBeukema]

1) watch the video

2) ask yourself who's writing the bills 'our own' congress keeps passing when you can't find anyone who says they want these laws enacted

We are witnessing the end of the age of the nation-state as it was. Now it shall serve as the means by which the corporations exercise control over the masses. No longer is capital subject to legislation by the State, but the State shall be subject to the will of capital.

You should realize that even Corporations answer to a higher power on earth, the hidden Oligarchy, and realize there are many ways we are being played.

the corporations are the machinations of the modern oligarchy

 

[Intense]

1) watch the video

2) ask yourself who's writing the bills 'our own' congress keeps passing when you can't find anyone who says they want these laws enacted

We are witnessing the end of the age of the nation-state as it was. Now it shall serve as the means by which the corporations exercise control over the masses. No longer is capital subject to legislation by the State, but the State shall be subject to the will of capital.

You should realize that even Corporations answer to a higher power on earth, the hidden Oligarchy, and realize there are many ways we are being played.

the corporations are the machinations of the modern oligarchy

In part, yes.

 

[Intense]

Consider Contract Law, terms of use and service. Who employs the Lawyers that write this stuff up to their advantage. Breaking the Monopolies addresses that. Consumer Protection can address that. The most visible abuses, when focused on, do melt away. Tyranny unmasked. Communication and Awareness have more power than violence, in effecting positive change.

 

[Contumacious]

Why do you considered being be a slave of the state better than contracting to work with a Capitalist?

.

.

I'd answer that, but it seems to be nothing more than a nonsensical string of babbling stupidity.

Is that right? Well here is more nonsensical string of babbling stupidity: Why do the Cubans attempt to leave , what you consider a paradise, via anything that floats?

.

 

[JBeukema]

Myself, I'm just trying to get a job at the Ministry of Information and Culture.

 

[JBeukema]

Why do you considered being be a slave of the state better than contracting to work with a Capitalist?

.

.

I'd answer that, but it seems to be nothing more than a nonsensical string of babbling stupidity.

Is that right? Well here is more nonsensical string of babbling stupidity: Why do the Cubans attempt to leave , what you consider a paradise, via anything that floats?

.

What does Cuba have to do with anything at all?

 

[Contumacious]

Free Market Capitalism is not similar to Anarchy.

Those who advocate a 'free market' always reveal themselves as advocates of market anarchy. They seek to empower capital to circumvent the authority of the nation-state and return us to something approximating feudalism. The only freedom of the 'free market' and 'free trade' which they espouse is capital's freedom from all restraints upon the exploitation of the common man and the bourgeoisie's freedom from the limits once placed upon their powers by socialist progress.

In reality, the market cannot exist without being less than wholly free, for the absence of standards and regulation and limits upon the growth and power of corporations and private interests has always lead us to oligarchy, tyranny, exploitation, and oppression.

I agree.

I won't buy any products unless they have been personally approved by Obama. You can not trust them Capitalists. Government bureaucrats on the other hand must be treated as deity .

Long Live the Vaterland. Heil Hitler.

.

 

[JBeukema]

Even today the People are not rebelling against the existence of the modern oligarchs. The complaints are all about the loss of the personal sphere of liberty- primarily in the form of excessive taxation and control of such matters as what foods you may buy and how they are taxed and regulated.

Perhaps it is time for a new mediator?

 

[JBeukema]

Free Market Capitalism is not similar to Anarchy.

Those who advocate a 'free market' always reveal themselves as advocates of market anarchy. They seek to empower capital to circumvent the authority of the nation-state and return us to something approximating feudalism. The only freedom of the 'free market' and 'free trade' which they espouse is capital's freedom from all restraints upon the exploitation of the common man and the bourgeoisie's freedom from the limits once placed upon their powers by socialist progress.

In reality, the market cannot exist without being less than wholly free, for the absence of standards and regulation and limits upon the growth and power of corporations and private interests has always lead us to oligarchy, tyranny, exploitation, and oppression.

I agree.

I won't buy any products unless they have been personally approved by Obama. You can not trust them Capitalists. Government bureaucrats on the other hand must be treated as deity .

Long Live the Vaterland. Heil Hitler.

.

 

[Intense]

Free Market Capitalism is not similar to Anarchy.

Those who advocate a 'free market' always reveal themselves as advocates of market anarchy. They seek to empower capital to circumvent the authority of the nation-state and return us to something approximating feudalism. The only freedom of the 'free market' and 'free trade' which they espouse is capital's freedom from all restraints upon the exploitation of the common man and the bourgeoisie's freedom from the limits once placed upon their powers by socialist progress.

In reality, the market cannot exist without being less than wholly free, for the absence of standards and regulation and limits upon the growth and power of corporations and private interests has always lead us to oligarchy, tyranny, exploitation, and oppression.

I agree.

I won't buy any products unless they have been personally approved by Obama. You can not trust them Capitalists. Government bureaucrats on the other hand must be treated as deity .

Long Live the Vaterland. Heil Hitler.

.

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. -Thomas Jefferson

The Greatest Thomas Jefferson quotes