Who still thinks Ukraine should be part of NATO?

[rightwinger]

Presidential elections in the US and possibility of a Republican nominee to win. And personalities don't matter in this case. Many Republicans oppose providing any aid to Ukraine and their candidate will have to get along with their stance.

Very true
It is well known that Republicans support Putin
Especially Trump

 

[Pete7469]

its well past time we leave NATO and let europe provide their own security,,

My thoughts exactly.

In fact NATO ought to have been drastically drawn down if not completely buried with the corpse of the Warsaw Pact.

We might have actually been able to have a lot more influence with the new Russian Gov't had we administered aid like we had with europe post WW2.

Not that it makes much sense to quarter-decade review foreign policy I suppose but what we done sure didn't work worth a fuck.

 

[theHawk]

Ukraine did a pretty good job of stopping him

Now, Putin is in a no win situation
Putin’s visions of conquest are over

Uh, no they haven’t. All the propaganda you listen to are lies. Ukrainians are being slaughtered.

Biden has already illegally committed our troops on the ground there because they are losing so bad. Next he will likely double down on stupid and declare we must send troops in. Than the draft. And you will cheer it all on.

 

[rightwinger]

Uh, no they haven’t. All the propaganda you listen to are lies. Ukrainians are being slaughtered.

Biden has already illegally committed our troops on the ground there because they are losing so bad. Next he will likely double down on stupid and declare we must send troops in. Than the draft. And you will cheer it all on.

Really?

When did Russia march down the streets of Kiev?

 

[theHawk]

Really?

When did Russia march down the streets of Kiev?

They don’t want Kiev. They are helping the eastern provinces to be free from Kiev.

The leaked documents show the Pentagon knows that Ukrainian deaths are 7 times worse than Russia’s. That the US intel agencies have been spying on our own allies.

But hey keep chugging the Kool-aid.

 

[Woodznutz]

Prove it.....Come on, flesh it out for everyone here.

At best what are mostly Putin's vassal states of the old Soviet Union (each as corrupt as the next) is about it. He's welcome to them.

Restoration of empire is the endgame for Russia's Vladimir Putin | CNN

Reading Russian President Vladimir Putin's mind is rarely a straightforward task, but on occasion the Kremlin leader makes it easy.

www.cnn.com

 

[1srelluc]

Restoration of empire is the endgame for Russia's Vladimir Putin | CNN

Reading Russian President Vladimir Putin's mind is rarely a straightforward task, but on occasion the Kremlin leader makes it easy.

www.cnn.com

So all you got is parroting CNN?

 

[Woodznutz]

So all you got is parroting CNN?

I just chose the first of several such articles. Putin's designs on the whole of Ukraine is well documented. Search it for yourself.

 

[1srelluc]

I just chose the first of several such articles. Putin's designs on the whole of Ukraine is well documented. Search it for yourself.

Well no shit genius, he would have took it all if he could. You have a perfect grasp of the obvious.

 

[Woodznutz]

Well no shit genius, he would have took it all if he could. You have a perfect grasp of the obvious.

Why the attitude?

 

[1srelluc]

Why the attitude?

I get sick of the straws being grasped by the Russia, Russia, Russia crowd to make Putin's goals seem more than what they are in order for the dems and neocons to further fuel the war instead of trying to end it through negotiation and eventual partition.

 

[Woodznutz]

I get sick of the straws being grasped by the Russia, Russia, Russia crowd to make Putin's goals seem more than what they are in order for the dems and neocons to further fuel the war instead of trying to end it through negotiation and eventual partition.

I don't think making concessions to Putin is a good thing. Reminds one of Hitler.

 

[1srelluc]

I don't think making concessions to Putin is a good thing. Reminds one of Hitler.

Godwin's Law much?

 

[rightwinger]

Restoration of empire is the endgame for Russia's Vladimir Putin | CNN

Reading Russian President Vladimir Putin's mind is rarely a straightforward task, but on occasion the Kremlin leader makes it easy.

www.cnn.com

In June of 2022 that may have been his objective.

After his invasion of Ukraine sputtered, his global dominance plans have been shelved. Right now, he just wants to save his ass

 

[José]

The poster toomuchtime, just like Woodznutz, is also constantly parroting the comparison between Putin and Peter the Great but he couldn't avoid the occasional slip of the tongue that innevitably happens when you regurgitate propaganda:

Originally posted by toomuchtime
When did the Cold War end? I see only Russia only paused from the Cold War for a few years.

French General Michel Yakovleff considers Ukraine’s army the best in Europe, Moscow army appeared to be from the third league.

Wait a moment...

If toomuchtime concedes the fact that Russia "paused from the Cold War for a few years" and the first meeting where the enlargement of NATO was debated took place as early as 1991, it stands to reason that Russia is reacting to NATO's expansionism and not the other way around:
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Internal NATO reaction to these former Warsaw Pact countries was initially negative, but by the 1991 Rome summit in November, members agreed to a series of goals that could lead to accession.

Debate within the American government as to whether enlargement of NATO was feasible or desirable began during the George H.W. Bush administration.[41] By mid-1992, a consensus emerged within the administration that NATO enlargement was a wise realpolitik measure to strengthen Euro-American hegemony.

Enlargement of NATO - Wikipedia
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I love it when super patriotic american clowns can't even keep a bare modicum of coherence and end up contradicting their own propaganda...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

its well past time we leave NATO and let europe provide their own security,,

NATO is buggy whips. Russia is not a threat, it only took action once provoked beyond any reasonable standard and its limited incursion was approved by Biden.

It's ridiculous for us to keep funding NATO

 

[ActionJackson]

its well past time we leave NATO and let europe provide their own security,,

Bingo!! NATO is the military arm of the United Nations and the WEF, at this point. Times have changed. The UN is a greater threat to American sovereignty than Russia is. Hell ... Washington, D.C. is a greater threat to America than Russia is.

 

[Woodznutz]

Godwin's Law much?

That comparison was made early on.

 

[jwoodie]

How about trading Eastern Ukraine for Kaliningrad?

 

[toomuchtime_]

The poster toomuchtime, just like Woodznutz, is also constantly parroting the comparison between Putin and Peter the Great but he couldn't avoid the occasional slip of the tongue that innevitably happens when you regurgitate propaganda:



French General Michel Yakovleff considers Ukraine’s army the best in Europe, Moscow army appeared to be from the third league.

Wait a moment...

If toomuchtime concedes the fact that Russia "paused from the Cold War for a few years" and the first meeting where the enlargement of NATO was debated took place as early as 1991, it stands to reason that Russia is reacting to NATO's expansionism and not the other way around:
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Internal NATO reaction to these former Warsaw Pact countries was initially negative, but by the 1991 Rome summit in November, members agreed to a series of goals that could lead to accession.

Debate within the American government as to whether enlargement of NATO was feasible or desirable began during the George H.W. Bush administration.[41] By mid-1992, a consensus emerged within the administration that NATO enlargement was a wise realpolitik measure to strengthen Euro-American hegemony.

Enlargement of NATO - Wikipedia
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I love it when super patriotic american clowns can't even keep a bare modicum of coherence and end up contradicting their own propaganda...

As always, still just a whiny advocate for Russian imperialism. The increase in NATO membership was the result of the contraction of the Russian empire: as the eastern European states were abruptly freed from Russian captivity, they clamored for the protection of NATO, knowing from their past experiences that it wouldn't be long before Russia would try to take control of them again.

And Jose finds this desire to be free from Russia horrifying. He says Russia is surrounded by NATO, but in fact Russia is surrounded by the same states it has always been surrounded by, and not a single one of them is controlled by NATO, so what has changed? The only thing that has changed is that Russia can no longer try to bully it way into control of these states with violence of threats of violence, and Jose finds this intolerable.