Who still thinks Ukraine should be part of NATO?

[gipper]

Is that like the US being part of Great Britain?

So you don’t know Crimea has been part of Russia since Catherine the Great.

 

[Woodznutz]

You think if he took Kiev he’d invade other countries, yet there is no evidence of this. Why do you believe lies put out by the liars in our government, who’ve lied to you for decades?

I didn't say 'other countries'. Here's what I said,

"The gorilla in the room (that everyone is aware of) is that Putin has larger designs (than) just eastern Ukraine." (Italics added for clarity.)

 

[gipper]

I didn't say 'other countries'. Here's what I said,

"The gorilla in the room (that everyone is aware of) is that Putin has larger designs (than) just eastern Ukraine." (Italics added for clarity.)

Please tell what you mean by larger designs?

 

[Ringo]

Is that like the US being part of Great Britain?

Yeah, it's like Crimea use to be part of Ukraine.

 

[Woodznutz]

Please tell what you mean by larger designs?

The whole of Ukraine.

 

[gipper]

The whole of Ukraine.

Yeah sure. Again, no evidence of this and Putin’s military is having a hard time getting control of eastern Ukraine.

 

[toomuchtime_]

In order for her to be free, the American embassy must be removed from the country.

In order for Ukraine to be free, Russia must be removed from the country; in fact, in order for the Russian people to be free, this Russian government must be removed from Russia.

 

[Ringo]

In order for Ukraine to be free, Russia must be removed from the country;

No, the U.S. goes fuck itself, Russia takes Ukraine. You suck a lemon.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yeah sure. Again, no evidence of this and Putin’s military is having a hard time getting control of eastern Ukraine.

Well, like that old Russian saying, "Shit happens".

 

[toomuchtime_]

No, the U.S. goes fuck itself, Russia takes Ukraine. You suck a lemon.

So long as Ukraine's western allies continue to support Ukraine's battle against the Russian barbarians, there is no possibility Russia can prevail in Ukraine; the only real question is how deep into ruin will Putin take Russia before realizing that?

 

[gipper]

So long as Ukraine's western allies continue to support Ukraine's battle against the Russian barbarians, there is no possibility Russia can prevail in Ukraine; the only real question is how deep into ruin will Putin take Russia before realizing that?

Russia seems to be doing well economically. What is the CIA and Biden telling you?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Russia seems to be doing well economically. What is the CIA and Biden telling you?

Russia is doing great, according to Tass, oil and gas revenues are only down by 45% from last year and not all of Russia's clients for military hardware have switched suppliers yet because Russia cannot deliver spare parts due to the war. That's much better than some people thought Russia would suffer by now. The best news is that Russia has millions of young men who have not died yet in Ukraine.

 

[gipper]

Russia is doing great, according to Tass, oil and gas revenues are only down by 45% from last year and not all of Russia's clients for military hardware have switched suppliers yet because Russia cannot deliver spare parts due to the war. That's much better than some people thought Russia would suffer by now. The best news is that Russia has millions of young men who have not died yet in Ukraine.

Are you John Bolton or Mike Pompeo?

You want millions of young Russian men to die. CRAZY!

 

[toomuchtime_]

Are you John Bolton or Mike Pompeo?

You want millions of young Russian men to die. CRAZY!

Why would anyone think Russian soldiers deserve to die?

Two former Russian mercenary commanders recently admitted to killing a screaming 5-year-old Ukrainian girl at the behest of Vladimir Putin’s mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin, RadarOnline.com has learned.

The shocking confession came on Monday via a video published online by former Wagner PMC commanders Azamat Uldarov and Alexei Savichev.

According to Uldarov and Savichev, they were ordered to kill more than 20 Ukrainian children and teenagers by Prigozhin and unit chiefs before being pardoned for the killings by Putin in August and September 2022.

“I executed the order with my own hand – I killed children,” Uldarov recounted in the video published on Monday by the Russian project Gulagu.net.

“We were ordered to sweep and destroy everyone,” he continued. “We killed everyone – women, men, pensioners, and children, including little ones, five-year-olds.”
Uldarov also described firing an “insurance shot” at the “five-or six-year-old” Ukrainian girl to ensure she was killed, while Savichev revealed the Russian mercenaries were given orders to “shoot without words” any Ukrainian over the age of 15.
Savichev also admitted to ordering the execution of 70 Russian prisoners recruited to fight in Ukraine as mercenaries, as well as throwing a grenade into a pit of 60 dead bodies before setting the pit on fire with gasoline.

Russian Mercenary Commanders Admit To Killing 'Screaming 5-Year-Old Ukrainian Girl'

The two former Wagner PMC commanders also admitted to killing more than 20 other Ukrainian children and teenagers in 2022.

radaronline.com

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I just chose the first of several such articles. Putin's designs on the whole of Ukraine is well documented. Search it for yourself.

Chicken Kiev With Borscht

Just like the Monroe Doctrine required us to take the whole of the Soviet vassal in Cuba, Russia's border security requires Putin to take the whole of the Globalist vassal in the Ukraine. Preppy Prettyboy JFK backed down, letting Cuban patriots get slaughtered on the beach of the Bay of Pigs, but Putin is made of sterner stuff.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

How about trading Eastern Ukraine for Kaliningrad?

Last Kal

The philosopher Immanuel Kant was born there, back when it was in the Kingdom of Prussia and called "Königsberg."

It was said about his most famous book, The Critique of Pure Reason, that only three people could understand it. One went insane, another committed suicide, and the third was Kant himself. I get the same impression from this Netrix.

 

[José]

Okay. Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia in the early 1990s.

Pay attention to your own words "in the early 1990s."

Let's take your third example and see how "russian" the conflict really was:

South Ossetian War​

1989 - First protests, demonstrations and violent clashes in Georgia.

1991 - January 5, beggining of the war

1991 - December 31, dissolution of the Soviet Union

It was a war:

1 - whose background was the creation of the Soviet Union

2 - caused by the dissolution of the Soviet Union

3 - whose main belligerants were Georgians and South Ossetians (not Russians)

4 - managed for 3 years by the last soviet leader with the participation of soviet troops,

It was clearly a soviet conflict inherited by Russia that tried to distance herself from it as best as she could.

The Caucasus and Central Asia are a mind-boggling kaleidoscope of different ethnic, linguistic and religious groups and the end of the Soviet Union caused all those conflicts that you dishonestly blame on Russia.

 

[José]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
Again and again, you return to the same old lie that Russia is surrounded by NATO

You don't have to convince ME that NATO doesn't surround part of the russian border you have to convince NATO itself.

Again, straight from the horse's mouth:
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The four north-eastern battlegroups (in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland) are under NATO command through the Multinational Corps Northeast Headquarters in Szczecin, Poland. Two division-level headquarters coordinate training and preparation activities of their respective battlegroups.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/...,activities of their respective battlegroups.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

[José]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
What you are complaining about is that these states are no longer vulnerable to a Russian takeover.

There is a lot of confusion about the issue of national security and the presence of hostile forces close to any country's borders.

Esay and Kruska agreed the other day that this is only a smokescreen used by Russia to advance her economic, geopolitical interests.

The truth is that the 3 factors are interrelated but are not the same... they all have an independent, real existence.

When the chinese foreign minister, Zhou Enlai issued this warning to the international community:

China is prepared to intervene in Korea
to safeguard its national security.

China will not admit the presence of american
troops on the korean side of the Yalu River.

he wasn't using the issue of national security as an excuse to protect China's economic interests in Korea.

It's a fact that with "the presence of american troops" China would never become North Korea's biggest trading partner (the country wouldn't even exist anymore) but this doesn't mean China fought the Korean War to protect economic interests in Korea and used the issue of national security as a pretext.

It's also a fact that without the presence of american troops China would be free to intervene again in North Korea whenever they spotted a grave threat to their national interests (North Korea would remain "vulnerable to a chinese takeover" to use toomuchtime's words).

All of the above is absolutely true... China benefited from an economic and geopolitical point of view... But the driving force of the chinese involvement in the war was chinese national security plain and simple. Far from being an excuse, a pretext to profit and to be able to invade North Korea in 2040, chinese national security (keeping US marines far from the chinese mainland) was 99,99% of the reason why China went to war.

When Ronal Reagan said these words about the invasion of Grenada:

We arrived at the last minute.​

He was not thinking about international trade between America and Grenada. He wasn't saying they "arrived at the last minute" to be able to intervene in Grenada again 50 years in the future. National security (denying the soviets and the cubans the chance to establish military bases close to America) was 100% of the reason that led America to invade the island.

The idea that money, trade and the freedom to invade North Korea and Grenada again were the driving forces that led Mao and Reagan to oppose the presence of american and soviet military bases next to their borders is beyond pathetic.

Why is it so hard for people to believe that many times (but not all) when a country says they are protecting their national security, they are sincerely, honestly protecting their national security?

Mao was simply thinking about China's national security in 1950 and Reagan was merely thinking about the US national security in 1983. Their almost exclusive goal was to keep american and soviet military bases far away from their borders.

The fact that economic advantages and freedom to intervene in the future resulted from the wars does not mean national security was merely a cover, a facade, a pretext to go to war.

National security, trade (money) and ability to intervene in the future are all intertwined, they are closely related but that doesn't mean that national security is not real.

But I'm not saying that national security is never used as a pretext to advance other interests. Bush and his "weapons of mass destruction" being a perfect example.

toomuchtime is trying to deny the reality that a military organization is threatening Russia's national security just like the prospect of american and soviet military bases in Korea and Grenada threatened China's and America's national security in the past.

He dishonestly conveys the idea that Russia is using the issue as pretext to have the freedom to takeover her neighbors in the future.

A country that lost 15 million citizens last time it was invaded by western Europe is not using national security as a pretext when they say they want to keep a western military alliance far away from her borders.

 

[Ringo]

No nazis at al! All is russian propaganda.

Kyiv to name street for Ukrainian Nazi collaborator after public vote

A street in Kyiv will soon bear the name of Volodymyr Kubiyovych, one of the founders of the Waffen-SS Galizien, the Ukraine branch of the Nazi military force.

www.jpost.com