Why anti gun people are so angry.....

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

WOW, I guess you can make it all the way to General being afraid of how a weapon "looks"

McChrystal: Assault Rifles Aren't for Civilians

Many in the military are statists....they have been raised since the age of 17 in a government organization that puts personal freedom behind the needs of the state.......and he works for us.......we tell him what he needs, not the other way around.......

That was disappointing to find out about General McCrystal, one of the few generals with the balls to stand up to this president.

Why? Because he has a conscience and is not afraid to state the obvious?

The 1994 assault weapons ban cost Democrats control of congress. Clearly banning guns is not "obvious" to most Americans.

Oh, so assault weapons are fine on the streets and particularly around the schools in America

Just because you don't trust yourself with one doesn't mean it applies to everyone else.

 

[Missourian]

I have fired many weapons, including semi-automatic pistols.

The similarity between an assault rifle and a semi automatic handgun end at rate of fire.
Most assault rifles were designed to be effective up to 450 yards. Most handguns are accurate only up to about twenty-five yards. Rifle rounds have twice the velocity and four times the muzzle energy of handgun rounds.

Are you being dishonest or obtuse?

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Did you forget what we were talking about?

Who was shot from further than 25 yards at Newtown?

Who brought up rate of fire?

Still waiting for you to come up with one of those reasonable gun laws that would have averted Newtown...

I already answered your question. Are you now going to claim a pistol is as accurate as a rifle at anything but point blank range?

I asked you a question that you ignored. I will restate/rephrase/expand it.

I support reasonable gun control measures. I do NOT want to disarm Americans. I DO support universal background checks for any gun sales at gun shows and Internet sales, but not requiring them of family members and friends giving or selling guns to each other.

I also support a ban on assault weapons and large magazines that have no use for personal protection.

WHAT do you support?

And how exactly would any of that have averted Newtown, or Virginia Tech, or the Navy Yard, or California Virgin?

I'd support universal background checks of gun buyers...with no record whatsoever of what they buy. Win/win...no backdoor registration and you get universal background checks.

 

[pismoe]

MCCRYSTAL is statist , he knows who butters his bread !!

 

[2aguy]

I have fired many weapons, including semi-automatic pistols.

The similarity between an assault rifle and a semi automatic handgun end at rate of fire.
Most assault rifles were designed to be effective up to 450 yards. Most handguns are accurate only up to about twenty-five yards. Rifle rounds have twice the velocity and four times the muzzle energy of handgun rounds.

Are you being dishonest or obtuse?

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Did you forget what we were talking about?

Who was shot from further than 25 yards at Newtown?

Who brought up rate of fire?

Still waiting for you to come up with one of those reasonable gun laws that would have averted Newtown...

I already answered your question. Are you now going to claim a pistol is as accurate as a rifle at anything but point blank range?

I asked you a question that you ignored. I will restate/rephrase/expand it.

I support reasonable gun control measures. I do NOT want to disarm Americans. I DO support universal background checks for any gun sales at gun shows and Internet sales, but not requiring them of family members and friends giving or selling guns to each other.

I also support a ban on assault weapons and large magazines that have no use for personal protection.

WHAT do you support?

And how exactly would any of that have averted Newtown, or Virginia Tech, or the Navy Yard, or California Virgin?

I'd support universal background checks of gun buyers...with no record whatsoever of what they buy. Win/win...no backdoor registration and you get universal background checks.

Evan between family members...or between friends....when it is known neither part is a felon.....

How,about when you and your wife are not felons.....you buy a gun....both are legally able to carry a weapon in public...she is going out with her friends....should you be allowed to lend her your gun for the evening....without going to the gun store for a background check.......

We know how gun grabbers think and how they trap " common sense" gun laws...if you aren't careful in what you support....if your wife is stopped and found with that gun....she could be arrested as a felon...and you too....

 

[Brain357]

most of the USA can easily buy full capacity magazines Brian so I don't see any limitation in most of the USA on taxpayers !!

Does the military have machine guns? Can you go to the store and buy a new made in 2015 machine gun? The military has grenades. Can you go to the store and buy a live grenades? The military has rocket launchers. Can run to the store and buy a rocket launcher with live rockets?

No...you can easily get all of those things in France, Belgium, Sweden and Denmark....and they all have more strict and absolute gun control than we do....dittos for Mexico.

I think easily is a great exaggeration.

 

[Brain357]

I have fired many weapons, including semi-automatic pistols.

The similarity between an assault rifle and a semi automatic handgun end at rate of fire.
Most assault rifles were designed to be effective up to 450 yards. Most handguns are accurate only up to about twenty-five yards. Rifle rounds have twice the velocity and four times the muzzle energy of handgun rounds.

Are you being dishonest or obtuse?

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Did you forget what we were talking about?

Who was shot from further than 25 yards at Newtown?

Who brought up rate of fire?

Still waiting for you to come up with one of those reasonable gun laws that would have averted Newtown...

I already answered your question. Are you now going to claim a pistol is as accurate as a rifle at anything but point blank range?

I asked you a question that you ignored. I will restate/rephrase/expand it.

I support reasonable gun control measures. I do NOT want to disarm Americans. I DO support universal background checks for any gun sales at gun shows and Internet sales, but not requiring them of family members and friends giving or selling guns to each other.

I also support a ban on assault weapons and large magazines that have no use for personal protection.

WHAT do you support?

How do you know large magazines have no role in personal protection...do you live in an isolated community...on the border, or have you been camping where there is no law enforcement...where you might need to hold off attackers till you can get clear......ask the 43 Mexican student teachers rounded up by the drug cartel if they needed guns and large capacity magazines........while the drug cartel in conjuction with the Mexican government official rounded them up...

What about the isolated land owner on the border...what if they run into drug cartel members running drugs or illegals...do you think a 6 shot revolver will be enough against heavily armed cartel assholes with fully automatic, illegal rifles (probably sold to them by eric holder and barak obama)

You do not have the right to disarm law abiding citizens because you don't like certain guns or pieces of equipment....

The people using them are mass shooters and gang bangers.
A Killing Machine Half of All Mass Shooters Used High-Capacity Magazines Mother Jones

Brain...you should stop using that stupid article...it says Half used those magazines...because they are standard magazines ( a deception by lying gun grabbers first of all) and the other half.....USED Something else.....so if you ban standard issue magazines.........the first half will also use something else.....so the problem will not be solved by your magazine/gun ban.....

What a stupid fucking article.....that only gun grabbers suck up and believe.....

It shows how many killers use magazines larger than 10 rounds.

 

[Brain357]

Well this is what I think would happen if we put a ban on the sale of new hi cap magazine like we did previously. And it would take a lot of years for it to have any real effect but would be a step in the right direction. New sales would have mags with a limited magazine. The value of the magazines that hold more would skyrocket and would eventually get hoarded up by the gun nuts. As they become less easy to get the gang bangers won't have them as they don't need them to rob someone. They use them now because they are the norm. And it seems like the majority of mass shooters just run to the store and get a gun. I doubt they will go through the effort of trying to get higher capacity magazines. And if they do well I'd rather they have to go through more effort.

3D printing will allow and criminals to get all the hi-cap magazines that they want...because there will be a profit in it. Unless we are going to outlaw springs.

And I don't think reducing the amount of rounds a gangbanger can put in his gun is going to reduce the number of bullets that he or she shoots.

3D printers are extremely expensive. And why would a gang banger bother? You can hold up a bank with a derringer.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I have fired many weapons, including semi-automatic pistols.

The similarity between an assault rifle and a semi automatic handgun end at rate of fire.
Most assault rifles were designed to be effective up to 450 yards. Most handguns are accurate only up to about twenty-five yards. Rifle rounds have twice the velocity and four times the muzzle energy of handgun rounds.

Are you being dishonest or obtuse?

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Did you forget what we were talking about?

Who was shot from further than 25 yards at Newtown?

Who brought up rate of fire?

Still waiting for you to come up with one of those reasonable gun laws that would have averted Newtown...

I already answered your question. Are you now going to claim a pistol is as accurate as a rifle at anything but point blank range?

I asked you a question that you ignored. I will restate/rephrase/expand it.

I support reasonable gun control measures. I do NOT want to disarm Americans. I DO support universal background checks for any gun sales at gun shows and Internet sales, but not requiring them of family members and friends giving or selling guns to each other.

I also support a ban on assault weapons and large magazines that have no use for personal protection.

WHAT do you support?

And how exactly would any of that have averted Newtown, or Virginia Tech, or the Navy Yard, or California Virgin?

I'd support universal background checks of gun buyers...with no record whatsoever of what they buy. Win/win...no backdoor registration and you get universal background checks.

It seems to me that I shouldn't have to go through it every time I buy a gun, transfer it, or anything else. Having to prove I'm not a felon is wrong because that burden of proof should be on the government to prove I am one. I think that showing an ID should be the only requirement, and if the government can't prove you are ineligible to buy a gun, then it can't stop you.

 

[2aguy]

most of the USA can easily buy full capacity magazines Brian so I don't see any limitation in most of the USA on taxpayers !!

Does the military have machine guns? Can you go to the store and buy a new made in 2015 machine gun? The military has grenades. Can you go to the store and buy a live grenades? The military has rocket launchers. Can run to the store and buy a rocket launcher with live rockets?

No...you can easily get all of those things in France, Belgium, Sweden and Denmark....and they all have more strict and absolute gun control than we do....dittos for Mexico.

I think easily is a great exaggeration.

Brain in France, one of the guys was on a convicted criminal, he and his brother were on a government terrorist watch list..they crossed an international border,twice, and bought the guns in a foreign country with strict gun control laws...as strict as France...come on.......

Not to mention the masked gunmen a week later who shot up the Marseilles neighborhood, just before the French Prime minister was going to make a speech about crime reduction in the neighborhood, and they also used fully automatic weapons....

And dittos for the two gunmen in Sweden last week shooting up the coffee shop.....suspected gang warfare...with fully automatic weapons....

Europe is awash in illegal, easily acquired, fully automatic weapons......

 

[pismoe]

well , I haven't bought an AR for awhile but last time I bought I think it came with a 10 and 20 round magazine . My m1a came with one 20 rounder and a 5 rounder for hunting and extra 20 rounders available from Springfield or the gun show for about 50 last time I bought some . 20 round new made Colt mags for 25 dollars a few years back and Bushmaster for 20 . Magazines are no problem as far as I know . New Ruger 25 round [think they are] .22 magazines for the '10-22' are cheap enough , available at a gun store , gun show or from Ruger Brian .

 

[Vandalshandle]

and Felons , well you guys release them at taxpayer expense back into society instead of keeping them locked up and even though I have no use for drug users even a nonviolent marijuana guy can be a felon . So yeah , in the case of a nonviolent person called felon when he has done his time , paid his debt and is released into society I'd like to see him released with full RIGHTS restored and with no trail so he can maybe get a job !! Violent felons of course should be locked up forever BFG and Brian !!

You guys?

I was wondering about that, too. I can't remember the last time I went down to the prison and opened the gate for any prisoner.

 

[Brain357]

most of the USA can easily buy full capacity magazines Brian so I don't see any limitation in most of the USA on taxpayers !!

Does the military have machine guns? Can you go to the store and buy a new made in 2015 machine gun? The military has grenades. Can you go to the store and buy a live grenades? The military has rocket launchers. Can run to the store and buy a rocket launcher with live rockets?

No...you can easily get all of those things in France, Belgium, Sweden and Denmark....and they all have more strict and absolute gun control than we do....dittos for Mexico.

I think easily is a great exaggeration.

Brain in France, one of the guys was on a convicted criminal, he and his brother were on a government terrorist watch list..they crossed an international border,twice, and bought the guns in a foreign country with strict gun control laws...as strict as France...come on.......

Not to mention the masked gunmen a week later who shot up the Marseilles neighborhood, just before the French Prime minister was going to make a speech about crime reduction in the neighborhood, and they also used fully automatic weapons....

And dittos for the two gunmen in Sweden last week shooting up the coffee shop.....suspected gang warfare...with fully automatic weapons....

Europe is awash in illegal, easily acquired, fully automatic weapons......

I didn't say it can't happen. But you have to do a lot more to prove it is EASY.

 

[pismoe]

if you support the statists both you and Brian are letting violent criminals back on the streets as far as I'm concerned 'VS' !!

 

[Missourian]

Well this is what I think would happen if we put a ban on the sale of new hi cap magazine like we did previously. And it would take a lot of years for it to have any real effect but would be a step in the right direction. New sales would have mags with a limited magazine. The value of the magazines that hold more would skyrocket and would eventually get hoarded up by the gun nuts. As they become less easy to get the gang bangers won't have them as they don't need them to rob someone. They use them now because they are the norm. And it seems like the majority of mass shooters just run to the store and get a gun. I doubt they will go through the effort of trying to get higher capacity magazines. And if they do well I'd rather they have to go through more effort.

3D printing will allow and criminals to get all the hi-cap magazines that they want...because there will be a profit in it. Unless we are going to outlaw springs.

And I don't think reducing the amount of rounds a gangbanger can put in his gun is going to reduce the number of bullets that he or she shoots.

3D printers are extremely expensive. And why would a gang banger bother? You can hold up a bank with a derringer.

Large capacity magazines are expensive. And so are the guns that accept them.

A Cobra derringer can be had for $130.

A 3D printer costs about the same as a good AR-15.

 

[Brain357]

Well this is what I think would happen if we put a ban on the sale of new hi cap magazine like we did previously. And it would take a lot of years for it to have any real effect but would be a step in the right direction. New sales would have mags with a limited magazine. The value of the magazines that hold more would skyrocket and would eventually get hoarded up by the gun nuts. As they become less easy to get the gang bangers won't have them as they don't need them to rob someone. They use them now because they are the norm. And it seems like the majority of mass shooters just run to the store and get a gun. I doubt they will go through the effort of trying to get higher capacity magazines. And if they do well I'd rather they have to go through more effort.

3D printing will allow and criminals to get all the hi-cap magazines that they want...because there will be a profit in it. Unless we are going to outlaw springs.

And I don't think reducing the amount of rounds a gangbanger can put in his gun is going to reduce the number of bullets that he or she shoots.

3D printers are extremely expensive. And why would a gang banger bother? You can hold up a bank with a derringer.

Large capacity magazines are expensive. And so are the guns that accept them.

A Cobra derringer can be had for $130.

A 3D printer costs about the same as a good AR-15.

It does look like the pricing has come down since the last time I checked. But the law would put huge jail time on anyone caught manufacturing. So again, why would they bother when they can commit crimes with the smaller capacity magazines?

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have fired many weapons, including semi-automatic pistols.

The similarity between an assault rifle and a semi automatic handgun end at rate of fire.
Most assault rifles were designed to be effective up to 450 yards. Most handguns are accurate only up to about twenty-five yards. Rifle rounds have twice the velocity and four times the muzzle energy of handgun rounds.

Are you being dishonest or obtuse?

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Did you forget what we were talking about?

Who was shot from further than 25 yards at Newtown?

Who brought up rate of fire?

Still waiting for you to come up with one of those reasonable gun laws that would have averted Newtown...

I already answered your question. Are you now going to claim a pistol is as accurate as a rifle at anything but point blank range?

I asked you a question that you ignored. I will restate/rephrase/expand it.

I support reasonable gun control measures. I do NOT want to disarm Americans. I DO support universal background checks for any gun sales at gun shows and Internet sales, but not requiring them of family members and friends giving or selling guns to each other.

I also support a ban on assault weapons and large magazines that have no use for personal protection.

WHAT do you support?

And how exactly would any of that have averted Newtown, or Virginia Tech, or the Navy Yard, or California Virgin?

I'd support universal background checks of gun buyers...with no record whatsoever of what they buy. Win/win...no backdoor registration and you get universal background checks.

Evan between family members...or between friends....when it is known neither part is a felon.....

How,about when you and your wife are not felons.....you buy a gun....both are legally able to carry a weapon in public...she is going out with her friends....should you be allowed to lend her your gun for the evening....without going to the gun store for a background check.......

We know how gun grabbers think and how they trap " common sense" gun laws...if you aren't careful in what you support....if your wife is stopped and found with that gun....she could be arrested as a felon...and you too....

Wow! You live in a world of "gun grabbers" who are out to trap you "law abiding citizens", and arrest your wife for carrying a gun (and you, too). Of course, background checks are only a tool of the government to target you as the next gun confiscation. Is there anything or anyone who is not in on the plot to get you and your wife? Is there an agent hiding under your bed just waiting to bulldoze your house and set fire to it? Are you sure that the folks next door are not government plants, there just to keep an eye on you? Heard any mysterious clicks on the telephone when you are talking to friends?

 

[2aguy]

Well this is what I think would happen if we put a ban on the sale of new hi cap magazine like we did previously. And it would take a lot of years for it to have any real effect but would be a step in the right direction. New sales would have mags with a limited magazine. The value of the magazines that hold more would skyrocket and would eventually get hoarded up by the gun nuts. As they become less easy to get the gang bangers won't have them as they don't need them to rob someone. They use them now because they are the norm. And it seems like the majority of mass shooters just run to the store and get a gun. I doubt they will go through the effort of trying to get higher capacity magazines. And if they do well I'd rather they have to go through more effort.

3D printing will allow and criminals to get all the hi-cap magazines that they want...because there will be a profit in it. Unless we are going to outlaw springs.

And I don't think reducing the amount of rounds a gangbanger can put in his gun is going to reduce the number of bullets that he or she shoots.

3D printers are extremely expensive. And why would a gang banger bother? You can hold up a bank with a derringer.

Large capacity magazines are expensive. And so are the guns that accept them.

A Cobra derringer can be had for $130.

A 3D printer costs about the same as a good AR-15.

It does look like the pricing has come down since the last time I checked. But the law would put huge jail time on anyone caught manufacturing. So again, why would they bother when they can commit crimes with the smaller capacity magazines?

One, they would use whatever magazine they thought would get the job done, legal or illegal.....but still illegal for them any way since they are criminals.....yet innocent people will be caught and turned into felons...it has already happened and it didn't stop the mass shooting in California, or Columbine...they both used 10 round magazines....so it is a pointless law meant to entrap honest, law abiding people in simple mistakes....and turning them into felons and taking away their rights forever....

 

[Brain357]

Well this is what I think would happen if we put a ban on the sale of new hi cap magazine like we did previously. And it would take a lot of years for it to have any real effect but would be a step in the right direction. New sales would have mags with a limited magazine. The value of the magazines that hold more would skyrocket and would eventually get hoarded up by the gun nuts. As they become less easy to get the gang bangers won't have them as they don't need them to rob someone. They use them now because they are the norm. And it seems like the majority of mass shooters just run to the store and get a gun. I doubt they will go through the effort of trying to get higher capacity magazines. And if they do well I'd rather they have to go through more effort.

3D printing will allow and criminals to get all the hi-cap magazines that they want...because there will be a profit in it. Unless we are going to outlaw springs.

And I don't think reducing the amount of rounds a gangbanger can put in his gun is going to reduce the number of bullets that he or she shoots.

3D printers are extremely expensive. And why would a gang banger bother? You can hold up a bank with a derringer.

Large capacity magazines are expensive. And so are the guns that accept them.

A Cobra derringer can be had for $130.

A 3D printer costs about the same as a good AR-15.

It does look like the pricing has come down since the last time I checked. But the law would put huge jail time on anyone caught manufacturing. So again, why would they bother when they can commit crimes with the smaller capacity magazines?

One, they would use whatever magazine they thought would get the job done, legal or illegal.....but still illegal for them any way since they are criminals.....yet innocent people will be caught and turned into felons...it has already happened and it didn't stop the mass shooting in California, or Columbine...they both used 10 round magazines....so it is a pointless law meant to entrap honest, law abiding people in simple mistakes....and turning them into felons and taking away their rights forever....

Innocent people will only be caught and turned into felons if they choose to manufacture them after the law is put in place. And nobody is saying they will stop shootings, but it will save lives. The giffords shooter was stopped when he had to reload. I'd prefer he was stopped at 10 rather than 18. Physics says reloading will slow the shooter and that gives innocent people a chance to run away.

 

[Bfgrn]

I'll challenge you. Show me a reasonable proposed gun law that would have averted Newtown that is not an outright ban.

There SHOULD be an outright ban on assault weapons. There is NO NEED for a private citizen to have an assault weapon for personal protection...NONE!

Again...how exactly would that have averted Newtown?

Still waiting...

Wait all you want...Newtown is not the only reason for passing sensible and reasonable gun laws. America leads the world in gun violence.

There is no way to completely prevent a tragedy like Newtown. But it could have been 'less' tragic if Lanza didn't have an assault rifle with a rate of fire of 50 rounds per minute and ten 30 round magazines.

Sorry, but that is not true. Cho killed more, they were adults AND he didn't use a rifle at all. Lanza had two pistols just like Cho AND many of Lanza's magazines were discarded after only using 15 rounds,

P.S. - the modern sporting rifle that you mis-attributed as an assault rifle has the same "rate of fire" as every other semi-automatic...one round per trigger pull.






I wish you guys/gals would do you homework, gain an understanding of firearms, instead of this knee-jerk reactionary stuff.

And I'm not saying that to be mean. Take a day at the range and shoot an AR-15, and a Glock, and a .38 special. Find out what it is you are talking about.

Hell, I'll take you if you live near me.

Beyond ironic...

Gun Murders Shot Up 25% After Missouri Repealed Universal Background Check Law

The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety.
H. L. Mencken

Here is how they lied....

Opinion Media cherry picks Missouri gun data to make misleading case for more control Fox News

While it is true that the murder rate in Missouri rose 17 percent relative to the rest of the U.S. in the five years after 2007, it had actually increased by 32 percent during the previous five years. The question is why the Missouri murder rate was increasing relative to the rest of the United States at a slower rateafter the change in the law than it did prior to it. Missouri was on an ominous path before the law was ended.

Simply looking at whether murder rates were higher after the law was rescinded than before misses much of what was going on. Most likely, getting rid of the law slowed the growth rate in murders.



And john lott directs to this study in the article....

What does Missouri show about the benefits from universal background checks Nothing really The forthcoming Journal of Urban Health study by the Bloomberg School of Public Health

More right wing lies...

What's the Matter With Missouri's Murder Rate?

For decades, Missouri required a permit to purchase a handgun, even from a private seller. (Under federal law, licensed dealers must conduct background checks but private sellers don't have to.) In 2007 the law was repealed -- causing a rash of murders, according to a forthcoming study we featured in White Papers & Research today:

The study [from researchers with the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research], to be published in a forthcoming issue of Journal of Urban Health, finds that the law's repeal was associated with an additional 55 to 63 murders per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012. State-level murder data for the time period 1999-2012 were collected and analyzed from the Federal Bureau of Investigation's (FBI) Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) system. The analyses controlled for changes in policing, incarceration, burglaries, unemployment, poverty, and other state laws adopted during the study period that could affect violent crime.

Here's some FBI data I pulled myself:

It's normal for crime stats to fluctuate here and there, but Missouri has had five straight years of abnormally high murder rates while the nation's rate has been declining.

The forthcoming study reports that states bordering Missouri didn't experience anything like this; in a similar exercise, I tried ranking all the states by murder rate as of 2006 (the year before the law's repeal) and then comparing Missouri with the two states that straddled it on the list. Illinois wasn't too far off and borders Missouri, so I included it too. I got a similar result -- starting in 2008, Missouri's rate was noticeably and consistently high:

 

[2aguy]

Yeah...already shown to be a lie....