Why are leftists crying about the student loan “burden” and not the car loan “burden”?

[candycorn]

An education is something that should be given for free to next generation, it was something that was done for generations.

Agreed.

Asking kids of 17-18 to take on a Mortgage and saddle them with massive debt is just basically wrong. We are supposed to make things easier for the next generation not harder...

Agreed again.

I see it as not only the right thing to do for the individual but also a national security matter. I don't mean armed conflict...I mean economic, cultural, and yes even military security

And we don't need , "But I paid it!!"... Two wrongs don't make a right..

I would disagree to a very small degree. The old model--when America didn't have to worry about competition and every other nation was much poorer than we were worked well. So I wouldn't call it a "wrong"...it was the right thing to do, lucrative, and it worked.

When you have to compete, you have to get better (see USA basketball for a good example of how the rest of the world caught up to us overnight). Other nations have no qualms about honing their workforces to serve exactly what they need, training their workforce, etc... We need to get advanced training in STEM, trades, economics, education, etc...

So there will be be people here that will be small minded but at present US doesn't educate its brightest and best, it educates the ones that can afford to take the risk on the debt...
Strange, for a country that has so many restrictions on gambling, they ask kids to risk a lot more than is necessary..

True.

The current model and a lot of people think an 18 year old is supposed to know exactly what they want to do for the rest of their lives, train only in that field (on the hope and pray that the market doesn't change during their work lives). Its rather nuts.

 

[Blues Man]

Agreed.

Agreed again.

I see it as not only the right thing to do for the individual but also a national security matter. I don't mean armed conflict...I mean economic, cultural, and yes even military security

I would disagree to a very small degree. The old model--when America didn't have to worry about competition and every other nation was much poorer than we were worked well. So I wouldn't call it a "wrong"...it was the right thing to do, lucrative, and it worked.

When you have to compete, you have to get better (see USA basketball for a good example of how the rest of the world caught up to us overnight). Other nations have no qualms about honing their workforces to serve exactly what they need, training their workforce, etc... We need to get advanced training in STEM, trades, economics, education, etc...

True.

The current model and a lot of people think an 18 year old is supposed to know exactly what they want to do for the rest of their lives, train only in that field (on the hope and pray that the market doesn't change during their work lives). Its rather nuts.

Maybe we shouldn't be sending 18 year olds to college.

Maybe they should have to gain some life experience first support themselves pay their own bills etc.

MAke them learn that there is no such thing a free anything.

 

[candycorn]

Maybe we shouldn't be sending 18 year olds to college.

Maybe they should have to gain some life experience first support themselves pay their own bills etc.

MAke them learn that there is no such thing a free anything.

Terrible idea.

 

[Blues Man]

Terrible idea.

Yeah just awful to teach young people how to support themselves in the real world

 

[candycorn]

Yeah just awful to teach young people how to support themselves in the real world

Yeah...the model that created the greatest nation on the planet needs to be completely jettisoned.

Wow.

 

[Blues Man]

Yeah...the model that created the greatest nation on the planet needs to be completely jettisoned.

Wow.

The model that created the US wasn't the everyone has to go to college model. It was the show some personal responsibility model

 

[Polishprince]

Are you kidding? You want to forgive debts by criminals?

Actually, no I don't. Just pointing out that doing so has more upside of positivity than forgiving debts by college students.

 

[candycorn]

The model that created the US wasn't the everyone has to go to college model. It was the show some personal responsibility model

And of course I’m not suggesting that everyone goes to college. Post #1

 

[Blues Man]

And of course I’m not suggesting that everyone goes to college. Post #1

No you just suggest they take no responsibility for the debt they incurred

 

[Polishprince]

And of course I’m not suggesting that everyone goes to college. Post #1

"Free" college means that virtually everyone will do exactly that however.

And college is indeed "free", if students don't have to pay their student loans back. Just like cars would be free if people didn't have to pay their car notes.

Demand for automobiles would soar if car notes were all forgiven.

 

[candycorn]

No you just suggest they take no responsibility for the debt they incurred

"Free" college means that virtually everyone will do exactly that however.

And college is indeed "free", if students don't have to pay their student loans back. Just like cars would be free if people didn't have to pay their car notes.

Demand for automobiles would soar if car notes were all forgiven.

Well, what I suggested on another thread was to turn the education system on it's head...

You still get a loan to go to college (if you want a loan and if you want to go to a traditional college but you can also go to a trade school if a college isn't near your residence) but instead of it being managed by Chase or Wells Fargo, the government sets up an account that you can access at any point in your life. You get the monetary equivalent of 60 credit hours put into an account at the DOE.

If you want to get your basics out of the way and gean AA or AAS or AFA or whatever, you can--those are generally 60 hours. If you want to take some classes to help in your career (like a pharmacy technician getting certified in compounding or a rig welder taking underwater welding or a chef wanting to take a restaurant management course) they can without the onerous course load requirements that often come with student aid. If you want to change careers...if you're tired of working in an office and want to become a truck driver (or a truck driver who wants a 9 to 5)...you have that account at the DOE ready for you. Or if you just want to take classes in art appreciation, or cooking, or tai chi (which I highly recommend by the way) just as a personal development play.

The requirements are as follows:

*You go to a publicly funded institution if there is a course available in what you're taking. If nobody within 20 miles (or whatever) of your abode offers diesel mechanics, you can apply your funds to UTI.

*Your fund is the equivalent to the costs of 60 Semester Hours at the ten closest public IHLs near you.

The twist is though that every paycheck you get, has a payment of this loan taken out. There isn't some middle man facilitator jacking up interests and penalties...or some massive debt burden. The students can't "dodge" the payments either. If you go to work,, you will pay this loan back. Additionally There will be an interest payment that essentially rounds up to the nearest 10th dollar. Meaning that if your number is $30,000 and you're 25, you will have 30 years to pay off your loan ($1,000 per year in this case). So averaging 26 paychecks a year, you'll pay $38.47 a paycheck plus $1.53 in interest. If you're older, you'll pay more but on average, you'll also be making more than many 25 y/o.

And yes, there will be waste fraud and abuse. Some people will find a way to game the system, you'll have people who die before the payment is paid back, and you'll have honest errors.

 

[Polishprince]

Well, what I suggested on another thread was to turn the education system on it's head...

You still get a loan to go to college (if you want a loan and if you want to go to a traditional college but you can also go to a trade school if a college isn't near your residence) but instead of it being managed by Chase or Wells Fargo, the government sets up an account that you can access at any point in your life. You get the monetary equivalent of 60 credit hours put into an account at the DOE.

If you want to get your basics out of the way and gean AA or AAS or AFA or whatever, you can--those are generally 60 hours. If you want to take some classes to help in your career (like a pharmacy technician getting certified in compounding or a rig welder taking underwater welding or a chef wanting to take a restaurant management course) they can without the onerous course load requirements that often come with student aid. If you want to change careers...if you're tired of working in an office and want to become a truck driver (or a truck driver who wants a 9 to 5)...you have that account at the DOE ready for you. Or if you just want to take classes in art appreciation, or cooking, or tai chi (which I highly recommend by the way) just as a personal development play.

The requirements are as follows:

*You go to a publicly funded institution if there is a course available in what you're taking. If nobody within 20 miles (or whatever) of your abode offers diesel mechanics, you can apply your funds to UTI.

*Your fund is the equivalent to the costs of 60 Semester Hours at the ten closest public IHLs near you.

The twist is though that every paycheck you get, has a payment of this loan taken out. There isn't some middle man facilitator jacking up interests and penalties...or some massive debt burden. The students can't "dodge" the payments either. If you go to work,, you will pay this loan back. Additionally There will be an interest payment that essentially rounds up to the nearest 10th dollar. Meaning that if your number is $30,000 and you're 25, you will have 30 years to pay off your loan ($1,000 per year in this case). So averaging 26 paychecks a year, you'll pay $38.47 a paycheck plus $1.53 in interest. If you're older, you'll pay more but on average, you'll also be making more than many 25 y/o.

And yes, there will be waste fraud and abuse. Some people will find a way to game the system, you'll have people who die before the payment is paid back, and you'll have honest errors.

Your proposal is hugely different than Biden's policy of forgiving debt regardless of what school the student attended. And Biden's precedent will mean future students and colleges will expect the same treatment of their debts.

 

[JoeB131]

What do you want a fucking medal? And you're right you wouldn't have lived on the streets you'd have died on them you can't seem to understand that sometimes people don't have a choice. By the time I was 16 I was supporting myself 100% while you were still living with mommy.

I pulled myself out and built a business. I retired at 51 but you have fun going to work now.

Sure you did, buddy... Sure you did.

Even if my beliefs did match exactly with your bizarre lies and distortions about them, it still wouldn't make me as mentally-fucked up as someone who is confused about the difference between men and women.

So you are claiming you don't wear specialized undergarments and you don't believe in the Celestial Heaven... or that you just don't like me making them sound silly...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

So you are claiming you don't wear specialized undergarments and you don't believe in the Celestial Heaven... or that you just don't like me making them sound silly...

I'm claiming that the reality of my beliefs is very different from the bizarre and hateful distortions of them that you express, to the point of being almost unrecognizable.

In any event, your lies and distortion about my beliefs are not relevant to this thread nor to any of the other threads that you insist on trying to derail therewith.

The only thing that you could possibly accomplish by repeating these lies is to show everyone what a lying piece of shit you truly are, but everyone already knows that anyway, so there's really no point to it at all.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm claiming that the reality of my beliefs is very different from the bizarre and hateful distortions of them that you express, to the point of being almost unrecognizable.

In any event, your lies and distortion about my beliefs are not relevant to this thread nor to any of the other threads that you insist on trying to derail therewith.

The only thing that you could possibly accomplish by repeating these lies is to show everyone what a lying piece of shit you truly are, but everyone already knows that anyway, so there's really no point to it at all.

If you were well-versed in your faith and dogma, you could refute my points.

The problem is, what you believe is silly. Actually most religion is silly. Because while you can scientifically measure the effectiveness of a vaccine you don't believe in, there's no scientific test for magic underwear or the Planet Kolob.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

If you were well-versed in your faith and dogma, you could refute my points.

You're one of the more extreme examples that I have ever encountered, but there is nothing new about some lying ignoramus who doesn't know shit about my religion, claiming to know more about it than I do; and making all sorts of absurd claims about what it is that I believe, and telling me that since I don't agree with those claims, that it is I who doesn't know my own religion.

The hard, undeniably fact is that you're completely full of shit, any time you talk about my religion. That's pretty much true of most topics that you ever address, but it is especially true, here.

 

[Lisa558]

You're one of the more extreme examples that I have ever encountered, but there is nothing new about some lying ignoramus who doesn't know shit about my religion, claiming to know more about it than I do; and making all sorts of absurd claims about what it is that I believe, and telling me that since I don't agree with those claims, that it is I who doesn't know my own religion.

The hard, undeniably fact is that you're completely full of shit, any time you talk about my religion. That's pretty much true of most topics that you ever address, but it is especially true, here.

Joe is a typical liberal - hates religion, and people who practice one. You see hear the profane language he uses to refer to Judaism, and Jews.

The irony is that is that these liberals say the most hateful, bigoted things about religious people - and then deride those who say awful things about blacks.

 

[Blues Man]

Sure you did, buddy... Sure you did.

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So you are claiming you don't wear specialized undergarments and you don't believe in the Celestial Heaven... or that you just don't like me making them sound silly...

Like I said IDGAF what you believe you're just a human shit stain

 

[JoeB131]

You're one of the more extreme examples that I have ever encountered, but there is nothing new about some lying ignoramus who doesn't know shit about my religion, claiming to know more about it than I do; and making all sorts of absurd claims about what it is that I believe, and telling me that since I don't agree with those claims, that it is I who doesn't know my own religion.

Dude, you know what your cult leaders have told you. So they tell you some sanitized story about Joseph Smith just marrying those teenagers in a spiritual sense, and you buy it.. You know, instead of what it obviously was, a cult leader who got his followers to perform sex acts with him. The Cognitive dissonance you need to belong to a cult is always amazing to watch.

You haven't refuted one claim I've made about the things I think are just plain silly.

Planet Kolob
Hebrews in Bronze Age America
Magic Underwear
Celestial heaven
Polygamy being a thing until it wasn't.
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young having sex with teenage girls.
Dark skin being a curse from God.

This is all in your religion.

The hard, undeniably fact is that you're completely full of shit, any time you talk about my religion. That's pretty much true of most topics that you ever address, but it is especially true, here.

Yet you can't refute a single point I make. You must not be very well versed in your faith.

Joe is a typical liberal - hates religion, and people who practice one. You see hear the profane language he uses to refer to Judaism, and Jews.

The irony is that is that these liberals say the most hateful, bigoted things about religious people - and then deride those who say awful things about blacks.

Religion is a choice. Race is not. I am not sure why I have to keep explaining this to you, because you are kind of stupid.

If you think you are being oppressed for being a Jew, stop being a Jew. Join some other belief in a sky pixie, or better yet, start thinking for yourself.

If Mormon Bob really can't answer for his whackadoodle cult, maybe he needs to join a different religion. Judging by his posts, thinking for himself is probably too much of a threat.

I was born and brought up Catholic. At a certain point, I realized the Catholic Church was full of shit. They had graven images that the Bible clearly prohibits, those stale wafers didn't taste anything like flesh and blood, and prayer is largely useless. So guess what, I stopped being a Catholic. .

 

[Polishprince]

Dude, you know what your cult leaders have told you. So they tell you some sanitized story about Joseph Smith just marrying those teenagers in a spiritual sense, and you buy it.. You know, instead of what it obviously was, a cult leader who got his followers to perform sex acts with him. The Cognitive dissonance you need to belong to a cult is always amazing to watch.

You haven't refuted one claim I've made about the things I think are just plain silly.

Planet Kolob
Hebrews in Bronze Age America
Magic Underwear
Celestial heaven
Polygamy being a thing until it wasn't.
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young having sex with teenage girls.
Dark skin being a curse from God.

This is all in your religion.



Yet you can't refute a single point I make. You must not be very well versed in your faith.




Religion is a choice. Race is not. I am not sure why I have to keep explaining this to you, because you are kind of stupid.

If you think you are being oppressed for being a Jew, stop being a Jew. Join some other belief in a sky pixie, or better yet, start thinking for yourself.

If Mormon Bob really can't answer for his whackadoodle cult, maybe he needs to join a different religion. Judging by his posts, thinking for himself is probably too much of a threat.

I was born and brought up Catholic. At a certain point, I realized the Catholic Church was full of shit. They had graven images that the Bible clearly prohibits, those stale wafers didn't taste anything like flesh and blood, and prayer is largely useless. So guess what, I stopped being a Catholic. .

Considering the religious beliefs of liberals- like Abortion being a great virtue and Almighty God putting Adam and Steve into the Garden, I don't think that libs have any room to criticize anyone else.