Why Are There So Many School Shootings?

[dannyboys]

Availability of guns? Mental Health? Bad Parenting? The media....

Or is it more complex and some combination of these and other things....?

Can we all agree that anyone that does this is mentally unstable?
If so, why? Genetic or environmental (developed thru experience...)?

I think one thing we can all agree on: the media saturates air time with these killings.
It used to be the only thing that would tie up air time like this was when the Kennedys were assassinated.
Now any off-balance, gun-loving psychopath dreaming of infamy sees the attention that is paid to these killers and copies it.
The media obliges the mad man's wishes.
Good for the people in Oregon who refuse to speak the shooter's name.

Why do you put up a video of you and your fag friends?

 

[candycorn]

Very good post. I think the problem is that those heat of the moment situations where people lose control. The problem with expecting people to control themselves is that we're all human and lose our rag sometimes. I don't think its down to cultural differences or is some indictment on American society, in Europe we have just as many nasty video games, violent movies, family break ups and mental health problems. The big difference is that we don't have the ability to either act out fantasies or take some perverted revenge in such a devastating manner.

The nation is not divided as it is over here... race against race, national origin against national origin, religion against religion, religion against non-religion, male against female.... and vice versa... That's how career politicians do whatever they want because we are bickering among ourselves not realizing it is a game for the political parties..

I think the problem is that this debate has become too polarized. And too much left versus right. Whats needed is a compromise which both sides can live with. If you look at surveys on gun control a start would be to find areas where both sides agree. So leave out the really polarizing aspects and work on background checks, removing loopholes. That has overwhelming support from both Dems and Reps. If you start from an area of strong agreement it can at least start building some bridges between both sides.

I wish it were that simple.

Here is what some believe.


Then there are the more enlightened ones who recognize that the group was flawed; brilliant men but with flaws like you find in all men. They got most of it right. In some cases, they were understandably victims of their circumstances. They had a piss-poor standing army, nation-states with designs on either taking or re-taking the land they had just fought for, and a frontier of combative natives. Given those three factors and a good amount of folks still pining for the good old days of a monarch, it was in the government's interest to have Militias. They couldn't even afford to outfit a Militia so they said that your weapons are great as long as you're part of a Militia. Obviously this was the intent. One would note the 3rd Amendment was about quartering soldiers in your home. Again, a victim of their circumstance. Hell, the 6th amendment recommends a speedy trial for the accused. In 2015, the reality is that many defendants do not want a speedy trial; they want the opposite so that witnesses can disappear/die off, memories become foggy, and they have a better shot at a hung jury.
We recognize that no group/person is perfect and could foretell all of the turbulence that the Constitution has undergone. There are statutes that are simply no longer congruent to the nation as it is today.

We can't eliminate them. We have the 2nd Amendment and our Constitution makes any assault on it nearly impossible in any political climate much less today's.

I do have a plan to limit the number of guns on the street. It will take time but using market forces of supply and demand, you can have a reduction in the availability of guns.

Basically, you force manufacturers to put a $1,000 insurance policy on guns. Once that happens, when they sell them to Wal Mart, Wal Mart has to have one for each gun they have in their inventory. They have 500 guns, they have to buy 500 of these policies. So Wal Mart will not buy as many guns, the makers will not make as many, and that will reduce the pool.

Secondly, the money you paid for the insurance policy when you guy the gun (a thousand bucks) doesn't sit on a shelf somewhere. The seller of the policy will invest it in the State's employee pension fund where it will get the same match as employee contributions. Up to $10,000 in 10 years. It is capped at 10K.

What this does is limit the number of sellers of weapons because if you sell the weapon (and the policy), you sell the gun for whatever you negotiate but you have to sell the policy for $1,000. No more, no less. That could be amended to be whatever the current price is of the policy--it will likely raise over time--thus further limiting the number of sellers.

So, lets say you keep your gun for 10 years.

You can take the gun to the local State Police office and sell it to whatever they are going to pay for it. You walk out with the check for the sale of the gun and $10,000 bucks. And you still have a $1,000 policy you can use to piggy back onto another weapon. Or you can cash in the $1,000 policy and get 11,000 bucks. Or you can keep your gun but the investment dividend is capped at $10,000.

So fewer guns are being made; fewer guns are in the store, and fewer guns are available to buy since it is now an investment vehicle. This is how you dry up supply using market forces.

On the persecution side. Obviously, if the gun is used in a crime during this time, the policy pays the victims. I think we should make all crimes that one commits involving a gun (whether it is fired or not) a federal crime. SO if you commit a robbery using a gun in Oklahoma; you serve your time for robbery in OK then are shipped off to a federal pen--7 states away--for the gun crime. Lets call it 5 years for the first offense--hell make it 10.. And you serve 10 years; no parole, no time off, 10 long years. If you like it so much that you do another gun crime once you get back to da hood; you get a 30 year ride next time.

Sell a gun without the policy--gun crime. Get ready to do a stretch in prison.
Steal a gun? Gun crime. Pack your bags.
Tell the cashier you have a gun and to hand over the money. Gun crime. Adios amigo.


There are other things I would do on the education front to let people know that if you do a gun crime; you're going away for your full sentence several hundred miles away.

Of course, the guns used are all confiscated and melted--thus reducing the pool even further. I'd make an anklet out of a melted gun and force the jerk to wear it to remind him of his crime every day.

===============

As is often pointed out by gun crazies; 99+% will never be used for a crime. This does not speak to them. There is no need to harass sane gun owners. Their guns will be handed down from responsible owners to responsible kids to hopefully responsible grand kids and so on. No need to. They are not part of the pool the psychopaths use to acquire weapons.

so basically poor people get denied their 2nd amendment rights. great.

It's infringement, pure and simple.

As long as there is a price charged for guns, there is an infringement. One cannot argue there is not in one case but there is in another.

A reasonable price for the actual manufacture of the gun is not infringement. Inflating the price by $1000 per gun is infringement.

Why do you hate poor people?

What one calls reasonable, some one will see as an infringement. You can't argue one is okay and one is not. Sorry.

Someone has to make the gun, and they should be compensated for it. Adding $1000 to the cost "just because" is infringement.

That sounds reasonable to me. But that isn't the argument. The argument is infringing on someone's right to a gun. Nothing in the Constitution says they have to be cheap or easily obtainable. Sorry.

 

[martybegan]

Very good post. I think the problem is that those heat of the moment situations where people lose control. The problem with expecting people to control themselves is that we're all human and lose our rag sometimes. I don't think its down to cultural differences or is some indictment on American society, in Europe we have just as many nasty video games, violent movies, family break ups and mental health problems. The big difference is that we don't have the ability to either act out fantasies or take some perverted revenge in such a devastating manner.

The nation is not divided as it is over here... race against race, national origin against national origin, religion against religion, religion against non-religion, male against female.... and vice versa... That's how career politicians do whatever they want because we are bickering among ourselves not realizing it is a game for the political parties..

I think the problem is that this debate has become too polarized. And too much left versus right. Whats needed is a compromise which both sides can live with. If you look at surveys on gun control a start would be to find areas where both sides agree. So leave out the really polarizing aspects and work on background checks, removing loopholes. That has overwhelming support from both Dems and Reps. If you start from an area of strong agreement it can at least start building some bridges between both sides.

I wish it were that simple.

Here is what some believe.


Then there are the more enlightened ones who recognize that the group was flawed; brilliant men but with flaws like you find in all men. They got most of it right. In some cases, they were understandably victims of their circumstances. They had a piss-poor standing army, nation-states with designs on either taking or re-taking the land they had just fought for, and a frontier of combative natives. Given those three factors and a good amount of folks still pining for the good old days of a monarch, it was in the government's interest to have Militias. They couldn't even afford to outfit a Militia so they said that your weapons are great as long as you're part of a Militia. Obviously this was the intent. One would note the 3rd Amendment was about quartering soldiers in your home. Again, a victim of their circumstance. Hell, the 6th amendment recommends a speedy trial for the accused. In 2015, the reality is that many defendants do not want a speedy trial; they want the opposite so that witnesses can disappear/die off, memories become foggy, and they have a better shot at a hung jury.
We recognize that no group/person is perfect and could foretell all of the turbulence that the Constitution has undergone. There are statutes that are simply no longer congruent to the nation as it is today.

so basically poor people get denied their 2nd amendment rights. great.

It's infringement, pure and simple.

As long as there is a price charged for guns, there is an infringement. One cannot argue there is not in one case but there is in another.

A reasonable price for the actual manufacture of the gun is not infringement. Inflating the price by $1000 per gun is infringement.

Why do you hate poor people?

What one calls reasonable, some one will see as an infringement. You can't argue one is okay and one is not. Sorry.

Someone has to make the gun, and they should be compensated for it. Adding $1000 to the cost "just because" is infringement.

That sounds reasonable to me. But that isn't the argument. The argument is infringing on someone's right to a gun. Nothing in the Constitution says they have to be cheap or easily obtainable. Sorry.

artificially raising the price to make it harder for a person to own one is the very definition of infringement.

Another attempted end run around the 2nd amendment.

 

[jc456]

two words I'm really tired of, "breaking news" It's breaking if it's a week old. Sensationalized you betcha.

 

[jc456]

1/ Gun violence on popular tv shows, movies and video games condition behavior. Many of the heroes and villains somehow resurrect and death is not perceived as finite. Gun violence becomes the norm instead of the exception as a result of continuous brain washing by these media outlets mentioned before.
2/ Suicidal tendencies lead to suicide by cops and/or when committing mass murders there is no way out resulting in self inflicted wounds resulting in death.
3/ Declining morals, loss of the sanctity of life, out for vengeance mentality, isolation/alienation from community as a result of so called diversity instead of assimilation.

also TV and movies provide the ideas on how to do the deed.

 

[dannyboys]

Simply put if guns were so good at keeping people safe then the USA should really be the safest place on the planet given how many guns are in circulation.

The fact that it has the worst gun murder rate of any developed country suggests there is a problem. Until the penny drops with people and this delusional refusal to accept facts then nothing will change.

As for the poster who thinks Europeans are somehow envious of America and come on here spouting anti American tirades that's hilarious.

Its quite possible to be pro America but anti guns, theres more to a country than its gun laws! I happen to like America but just think your gun laws suck!

Factor in the gun related murder rate involving inner city negroes.
These inner city negroes use illegal stolen guns to murder their own. These numbers get lumped into the final count and totally skew the study results.

 

[Bonzi]

1/ Gun violence on popular tv shows, movies and video games condition behavior. Many of the heroes and villains somehow resurrect and death is not perceived as finite. Gun violence becomes the norm instead of the exception as a result of continuous brain washing by these media outlets mentioned before.
2/ Suicidal tendencies lead to suicide by cops and/or when committing mass murders there is no way out resulting in self inflicted wounds resulting in death.
3/ Declining morals, loss of the sanctity of life, out for vengeance mentality, isolation/alienation from community as a result of so called diversity instead of assimilation.

also TV and movies provide the ideas on how to do the deed.

exactly, I made that point about the TV show SNAPPED among many others... I already know how to kill w/out getting caught from TV programming. What makes me different from a REAL killer is psychology...

 

[jc456]

and so?

 

[M14 Shooter]

artificially raising the price to make it harder for a person to own one is the very definition of infringement.
Another attempted end run around the 2nd amendment.

Impossible to soundly argue otherwise.

 

[dannyboys]

Simply put if guns were so good at keeping people safe then the USA should really be the safest place on the planet given how many guns are in circulation.

The fact that it has the worst gun murder rate of any developed country suggests there is a problem. Until the penny drops with people and this delusional refusal to accept facts then nothing will change.

As for the poster who thinks Europeans are somehow envious of America and come on here spouting anti American tirades that's hilarious.

Its quite possible to be pro America but anti guns, theres more to a country than its gun laws! I happen to like America but just think your gun laws suck!

Remove every stolen gun from every inner city negro shit hole in the country and watch the stats plummet.

 

[dannyboys]

Simply put if guns were so good at keeping people safe then the USA should really be the safest place on the planet given how many guns are in circulation.

The fact that it has the worst gun murder rate of any developed country suggests there is a problem. Until the penny drops with people and this delusional refusal to accept facts then nothing will change.

As for the poster who thinks Europeans are somehow envious of America and come on here spouting anti American tirades that's hilarious.

Its quite possible to be pro America but anti guns, theres more to a country than its gun laws! I happen to like America but just think your gun laws suck!

It is a Constitutional Right you moron. It is the way the country is ensuring some freedom since you limeys were kicked out...Deal with it and as a subject ask from your government to issue a slingshot permit for you....You cannot even own a broadsword without a permit...

ZZZZZ You call that freedom, living in fear of being shot! You can't even send your kids to school without the fear they won't be back. Continue to live in your delusional view of freedom. You're just paranoid, what exactly is your government going to do to you if you don't have a gun. The last time I looked the USA was a functioning democracy, its not some Third World sewer. God Bless Hillary Clinton who at least is willing to stand up to the NRA. God Bless Obama who has done wonders to improve the image of the USA across the world.

You are in need in mental therapy.
Sure BOBO has "improved" the image of the USA across the world. Sure he has.

 

[jc456]

1/ Gun violence on popular tv shows, movies and video games condition behavior. Many of the heroes and villains somehow resurrect and death is not perceived as finite. Gun violence becomes the norm instead of the exception as a result of continuous brain washing by these media outlets mentioned before.
2/ Suicidal tendencies lead to suicide by cops and/or when committing mass murders there is no way out resulting in self inflicted wounds resulting in death.
3/ Declining morals, loss of the sanctity of life, out for vengeance mentality, isolation/alienation from community as a result of so called diversity instead of assimilation.

also TV and movies provide the ideas on how to do the deed.

exactly, I made that point about the TV show SNAPPED among many others... I already know how to kill w/out getting caught from TV programming. What makes me different from a REAL killer is psychology...

The TV program "Stalker". holy crap the ideas that were in that show. And, guns are the problem. TV and movies, I am a firm believer in that that is the complete issue. It is the outcome of freedom of speech and no censorship. It may be time to begin censorship.

 

[jc456]

Simply put if guns were so good at keeping people safe then the USA should really be the safest place on the planet given how many guns are in circulation.

The fact that it has the worst gun murder rate of any developed country suggests there is a problem. Until the penny drops with people and this delusional refusal to accept facts then nothing will change.

As for the poster who thinks Europeans are somehow envious of America and come on here spouting anti American tirades that's hilarious.

Its quite possible to be pro America but anti guns, theres more to a country than its gun laws! I happen to like America but just think your gun laws suck!

Remove every stolen gun from every inner city negro shit hole in the country and watch the stats plummet.

are you going to get them? Funny.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Make felonies misdemeanors.
Destroy the traditional family unit.
Teach that people are no more important than a tree.
Tell people there is no God holding you accountable.
Make law enforcement the enemy.
Create a new holy trinity of Me, Myself and I.

Then wonder why society spirals into a cesspool.

 

[nicolondon]

Make felonies misdemeanors.
Destroy the traditional family unit.
Teach that people are no more important than a tree.
Tell people there is no God holding you accountable.
Make law enforcement the enemy.
Create a new holy trinity of Me, Myself and I.

Then wonder why society spirals into a cesspool.

No disrespect but this is drivel. You seem to take a very dim view of American society. Europe, America, people all generally want the same thing, nice job, home, good family, good prospects for their kids. Europe has just as many social problems as the USA. America is far more religious than any other developed country so I don't see what that's got to do with it. The fact is that when Europeans lose control or have some psychopathic fantasy they don't have the means normally to act on it.

I'm sure that if Europe was full of guns we'd have the same mass shootings on a regular basis. Theres nothing wrong with the American psyche or its society, people need to stop finding other excuses.

 

[jc456]

Make felonies misdemeanors.
Destroy the traditional family unit.
Teach that people are no more important than a tree.
Tell people there is no God holding you accountable.
Make law enforcement the enemy.
Create a new holy trinity of Me, Myself and I.

Then wonder why society spirals into a cesspool.

No disrespect but this is drivel. You seem to take a very dim view of American society. Europe, America, people all generally want the same thing, nice job, home, good family, good prospects for their kids. Europe has just as many social problems as the USA. America is far more religious than any other developed country so I don't see what that's got to do with it. The fact is that when Europeans lose control or have some psychopathic fantasy they don't have the means normally to act on it.

I'm sure that if Europe was full of guns we'd have the same mass shootings on a regular basis. Theres nothing wrong with the American psyche or its society, people need to stop finding other excuses.

naw, they have muslims walking around blowing establishments full of people up. That's what happens over in Europe.

 

[Dragonlady]

... this is interesting... why more suicidal tendencies....? or is that not what you were saying....?

I wouldn't say there are more suicidal and murderous tendencies nowadays than in times past, however I do believe when religion was more dominating in people's lives the sanctity of life was an overriding factor not to commit those acts when suicidal or murderous thoughts entered the mind.

I would say the opposite is true. In the 1950's people in the US were not as fanatically religious as they are today. There are more far right fundamentalist now that at any time in US history.

Extremism begats extreme behaviour.

 

[defcon4]

I would say the opposite is true. In the 1950's people in the US were not as fanatically religious as they are today. There are more far right fundamentalist now that at any time in US history.

Extremism begats extreme behaviour.

I wouldn't say that either. What was the media in the 50ies? Was there wide spread national broadcast coverage? Was there CATV, satellite tv, was the religion left alone, was it popular attacking Christians, were there tv series and movies "normalizing" commonly held abnormal behavior..etc. Your statement cannot be established with certainty.

 

[alanbmx123]

Angry young males being pumped full of anti psychotic drugs, how many young males grow up angry because how selfish their parents are. Mom and dad split at a drop of a hat, new boyfriend for mom or dad competing for attention of the parents for years new ones come and go, anger grows. Some cannot handle it, they end up locked in their room not fitting in playing video games and ending up lost in social media they gravitate towards others and the interactions all trend toward hopelessness. And in this modern reality TV generation going out in a blaze of notoriety even if it is evil leaves a mark on society, being noticed when that is all this generation is looking for. These anti psychotic drugs are very dangerous they open doors in the mind that cannot be closed. This is the result of the no fault divorce, and a pill for everything society we have created


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[northpolarbear]

I support the American right to have guns (it's a fun toy), but I just want to point out the "easy strength" or the "convenient establishment of how" can encourage the culprits to commit such acts. I mean, if they were given a brass knuckle instead of a gun, sometimes they wouldn't try to do it because it is harder to do. Having a gun grants an easy access to such acts which they might have avoided "because it is hard to do without gun", not because they don't want to do it.