Why are we so afraid to admit the obvious?

[buckeye45_73]

Yeah, it does matter which side is worse.

Our nut jobs (the left) yells at people.
Your nut jobs (the right) sends bombs and mows down people who are worshiping.

No your nutjobs shoot people, and bomb people.....The Unabomber was a wacktard environmentalist.......and a committed leftist, and there is Bill Ayers, who has never appologixed for killing people with bombs...

I’m sure the “appoloxigy” was last century LOL

well they are still alive and actually killed people...unlike this fake bomber (who sends bombs with no detonation device?)
But the left is by far the most violent......ANTIFA alone stalking all the old folks in Oregon.......these people should be shot on sight.

You’re a waste.

Sending bombs that don’t blow up is just fine? Is that your bat-shit crazy argument today?

No, but shooting people almost killing them is worse than sending bombs in the mail, that intended to not blow up.
And you guys have the all star bombers.......
the violence is on you guys, one random bomber does not equal
congressional shootings
bombings that actually KILLED people
ANTIFA
mobbing the capital and trying to break in doors to the SC
attacking people at restaurants and going to their homes with MOBs of people


and of course the old school lefty way:
Lynchings


and you have one mail bomber who didn't even setup the device to explode.......hmmmmmmm you lose.

 

[candycorn]

Our nut jobs (the left) yells at people.
Your nut jobs (the right) sends bombs and mows down people who are worshiping.

No your nutjobs shoot people, and bomb people.....The Unabomber was a wacktard environmentalist.......and a committed leftist, and there is Bill Ayers, who has never appologixed for killing people with bombs...

I’m sure the “appoloxigy” was last century LOL

well they are still alive and actually killed people...unlike this fake bomber (who sends bombs with no detonation device?)
But the left is by far the most violent......ANTIFA alone stalking all the old folks in Oregon.......these people should be shot on sight.

You’re a waste.

Sending bombs that don’t blow up is just fine? Is that your bat-shit crazy argument today?

No, but shooting people almost killing them is worse than sending bombs in the mail, that intended to not blow up.
And you guys have the all star bombers.......
the violence is on you guys, one random bomber does not equal
congressional shootings
bombings that actually KILLED people
ANTIFA
mobbing the capital and trying to break in doors to the SC
attacking people at restaurants and going to their homes with MOBs of people


and of course the old school lefty way:
Lynchings


and you have one mail bomber who didn't even setup the device to explode.......hmmmmmmm you lose.

Pretty sure right wing poster boys Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph—idols of yours—are the “all stars”.

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah, it does matter which side is worse.

Our nut jobs (the left) yells at people.
Your nut jobs (the right) sends bombs and mows down people who are worshiping.

No your nutjobs shoot people, and bomb people.....The Unabomber was a wacktard environmentalist.......and a committed leftist, and there is Bill Ayers, who has never appologixed for killing people with bombs...

I’m sure the “appoloxigy” was last century LOL

well they are still alive and actually killed people...unlike this fake bomber (who sends bombs with no detonation device?)
But the left is by far the most violent......ANTIFA alone stalking all the old folks in Oregon.......these people should be shot on sight.

You’re a waste.

Sending bombs that don’t blow up is just fine? Is that your bat-shit crazy argument today?

It's not as bad as killing 5 cops and shooting a Congressman.

 

[Olde Europe]

[...]

The left needs to quit the downward rhetorical spiral and clearly condemn violence, that is true. They need to refute the idea of "resistence" for the sake of resistence and turn that energy towards real political outcomes. [...]

That was a very fine post, food for thought, and a lot that should be uncontroversial, and still...

You see the left on a "downward rhetorical spiral"? When pretty much everyone - including Waters - has condemned violence and rejected incitement thereof? Compare that to what the Trumpy is doing to rile up the base, and Republicans can very rarely muster the spine to object, and then only in terms as weak and slimy as "not helpful", and I trust you will find there's no contest, not even the beginnings of a fair comparison.

Perhaps even more importantly, where do you get the sense there is such thing happening right now as resistance for the sake of resistance? When, on the other hand, there is a president and a ruling party dead set to destroy every shred of decency and fairness Democrats have fought to gain for the country during the last half century? When, in fact, the president and his ruling party represent nothing short of an all-out assault on the Fourth Estate, reason, and truth itself? That is resistance for a cause, and motivated by the hope to protect what the country is supposed to stand for, like the rule of law and fairness, and by the hope to protect political outcomes - like inter-racial reconciliation, the largely U.S.-created international order, or climate change protections - which were achieved, and need to be preserved.

Yes, no doubt, a hard look needs to be taken at both sides, and the exact same standards need to be applied. That's a matter of intellectual integrity. And yet, it is also a matter of intellectual integrity clearly to point out the differences we find, and not to surrender to the false wisdom of the pathological centrists and their hasty affirmation that "both sides do it", no matter the findings.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

much worse than what?

Than a typical bankruptcy, and worse than other bankrupticies of other casinos. Trump's bankrupticies transferred his losses to the local people and the municipalities. You should read up on it.

 

[bripat9643]

much worse than what?

Than a typical bankruptcy, and worse than other bankrupticies of other casinos. Trump's bankrupticies transferred his losses to the local people and the municipalities. You should read up on it.

That's what every bankruptcy does, moron. Was it worse than the GM or Chrysler bankruptcies where the bond holders got screwed?

 

[BookShaka]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

Weak people are terrified of being wrong and there are unfortunately TONS of weak people in the world. They will create excuse after excuse after excuse in order to be “right” even when they are the farthest thing from it.

 

[BookShaka]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

A Trump supporter Sent packages through the mail that contained bombs. Another idiot was so enraged by the hysteria preached by the blob about the migrants heading northward that he shot a dozen people in Pittsburgh.

No dumbass. Both sides aren’t right.

aaaaannnnnnndddddd look who steps up first to prove the OP’s point. Can’t say I’m surprised.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's what every bankruptcy does, moron

No, it doesn't. Some have much bigger impact on local communities, and some so by design. You have no idea what you are talking about. Trump's were pretty awful. Not that you care. You would defend anything he said or did. These discussions with you are pointless.

 

[boedicca]

much worse than what?

Than a typical bankruptcy, and worse than other bankrupticies of other casinos. Trump's bankrupticies transferred his losses to the local people and the municipalities. You should read up on it.

Not nearly as bad nor as HYUGE as all of the health care premium increases that transfer money from taxpayers to government dependents via ObabbleCare.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not nearly as bad nor as HYUGE as all of the health care premium increases that transfer money from taxpayers to government dependents via ObabbleCare.

But the premiums increase more slowly after the ACA was passed than they did before. So the ACA is not to blame for those rising premiums, or the overwrought attempt at "wealth transferrence" you conjured up.

 

[boedicca]

Not nearly as bad nor as HYUGE as all of the health care premium increases that transfer money from taxpayers to government dependents via ObabbleCare.

But the premiums increase more slowly after the ACA was passed than they did before. So the ACA is not to blame for those rising premiums, or the overwrought attempt at "wealth transferrence" you conjured up.

Absolute nonsense if one also includes the HYUGE increases in deductibles, which I will amend as my intent was overall health care cost increases due to ObabbleCare. People who pay for health insurance are covering more people who don't pay much, if anything at all.

Health care costs are skyrocketing, and wiping out wage increases

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Absolute nonsense if one also includes the HYUGE increases in deductibles,

Wrong, the deductibles continued to increase at about the same pace as before the ACA. And sabotage meant to reduce the risk pools was designed specifically to increase those deductibles and premiums, so that wingnut bloggers could craft the deceptive talking points you are regurgutate right now. So, instead of whining about these things, you should be taking credit for them, as you fully support the policies making them worse.

 

[boedicca]

Absolute nonsense if one also includes the HYUGE increases in deductibles,

Wrong, the deductibles continued to increase at about the same pace as before the ACA. And sabotage meant to reduce the risk pools was designed specifically to increase those deductibles and premiums, so that wingnut bloggers could craft the deceptive talking points you are regurgutate right now. So, instead of whining about these things, you should be taking credit for them, as you fully support the policies making them worse.

The data is sourced from Kaiser. Here is a longer time span, although it excludes deductibles. If ObabbleCare was supposed to contain cost increases, it is an epic fail - although that was never the intent. The real purpose is to pave the way to single-payer by destroying private health care.

 

[boedicca]

And here is a view on how deductibles have spiked up due to ObabbleCare.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Absolute nonsense if one also includes the HYUGE increases in deductibles,

Wrong, the deductibles continued to increase at about the same pace as before the ACA. And sabotage meant to reduce the risk pools was designed specifically to increase those deductibles and premiums, so that wingnut bloggers could craft the deceptive talking points you are regurgutate right now. So, instead of whining about these things, you should be taking credit for them, as you fully support the policies making them worse.

The data is sourced from Kaiser. Here is a longer time span, although it excludes deductibles. If ObabbleCare was supposed to contain cost increases, it is an epic fail - although that was never the intent. The real purpose is to pave the way to single-payer by destroying private health care.

View attachment 226646

Obamacare was not designed to lower medical costs. The first attempts contained such provisions, but those were deleted in an effort to compromise with republicans. So, again, you should be taking credit for the things you are complaining about. Frankly, that's odd to watch.

 

[boedicca]

Absolute nonsense if one also includes the HYUGE increases in deductibles,

Wrong, the deductibles continued to increase at about the same pace as before the ACA. And sabotage meant to reduce the risk pools was designed specifically to increase those deductibles and premiums, so that wingnut bloggers could craft the deceptive talking points you are regurgutate right now. So, instead of whining about these things, you should be taking credit for them, as you fully support the policies making them worse.

The data is sourced from Kaiser. Here is a longer time span, although it excludes deductibles. If ObabbleCare was supposed to contain cost increases, it is an epic fail - although that was never the intent. The real purpose is to pave the way to single-payer by destroying private health care.

View attachment 226646

Obamacare was not designed to lower medical costs. The first attempts contained such provisions, but those were deleted in an effort to compromise with republicans. So, again, you should be taking credit for the things you are complaining about. Frankly, that's odd to watch.

Yeah, no.

 

[Mac1958]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

A Trump supporter Sent packages through the mail that contained bombs. Another idiot was so enraged by the hysteria preached by the blob about the migrants heading northward that he shot a dozen people in Pittsburgh.

No dumbass. Both sides aren’t right.

aaaaannnnnnndddddd look who steps up first to prove the OP’s point. Can’t say I’m surprised.

It happens constantly here. It's like they're going out of their way for me. And somehow, they don't see it.

One of the primary symptoms of being afflicted with a hardcore partisan ideology is a narcissistic myopia.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

Weak people are terrified of being wrong and there are unfortunately TONS of weak people in the world. They will create excuse after excuse after excuse in order to be “right” even when they are the farthest thing from it.

For some unknown reason, I'm absolutely fascinated by the psychology of partisanship.

It really hit me while reading about the subconscious. One constant theme is the way that we can talk ourselves into some pretty extraordinary things, things that a rational person would never believe. This happens through things like repetition and intellectual isolation.

What blew my mind, and this is key, is that when you talk yourself into something, that means you really do believe it. You're not lying, you're not being insincere, you really believe it. That would mean then, that in many cases a hardcore partisan ideologue is not lying or playing games. This would explain why they're so focused and passionate, while saying things that are simply ludicrous.

So whether you're talking to a hardcore partisan ideologue, or a wild-eyed teenager on the streets of Damascus, or a protest sign-holding Westboro Baptist Church member demonstrating at the funeral of a soldier, you're dealing with a person who really believes what they're saying.

That's pretty profound, and concerning, to me.
.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Absolute nonsense if one also includes the HYUGE increases in deductibles,

Wrong, the deductibles continued to increase at about the same pace as before the ACA. And sabotage meant to reduce the risk pools was designed specifically to increase those deductibles and premiums, so that wingnut bloggers could craft the deceptive talking points you are regurgutate right now. So, instead of whining about these things, you should be taking credit for them, as you fully support the policies making them worse.

The data is sourced from Kaiser. Here is a longer time span, although it excludes deductibles. If ObabbleCare was supposed to contain cost increases, it is an epic fail - although that was never the intent. The real purpose is to pave the way to single-payer by destroying private health care.

View attachment 226646

Obamacare was not designed to lower medical costs. The first attempts contained such provisions, but those were deleted in an effort to compromise with republicans. So, again, you should be taking credit for the things you are complaining about. Frankly, that's odd to watch.

Yeah, no.

Wow man, that's deep.