Why can't Public Assistance increase?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Leave the employers sit high and dry. If you pretend to pay me, I pretend to work. Words to live by.

If that's the way you feel, just don't take the Fn job in the first place.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes and No...

The Constitution does, indeed, make provision for the Federal government to "promote the general welfare"...

Although it is silent with respect to how that might be done...

It also talks in terms of "promoting" the general welfare, not becoming the wellspring... merely promoting...

Promoting the general welfare and Forcing the general welfare are two different things.

Whenever you use the words Force and Government in the same sentence or paragraph, look out, because you are going to lose some liberties.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The easy solution is if an employer offers low wages NOBODY applies. Leave the job unfilled. HOPEFULLY the business struggles. Let those jobs sit there unfilled. Some low life's would then say "hey there are jobs and nobody is applying and this is what's wrong with america.". Those folk should be shunned.

No, because if a company needs workers and can't find any for the wage offered, they simply increase their wage offer. As long as it's by their own will to do so instead of the government, I see no problem with that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As little as you have to pay him.

Then we need stronger laws.

Our laws are just fine. Nobody is forced to take any job they don't want to.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

By keeping workers desperate? And you condone this?

What I condone is letting the marketplace take care of itself and not government.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If businesses don't pay their employees living wages how do they think they'll be able to live without Government handouts?

That's not the businesses problem, that's the workers problem.

A business is there to make profit off of products or services provided. That's it. Businesses didn't open up to provide a social obligation.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Does a fire dispatcher require any more education than a McDonalds employee?

No, they don't. But government often overpays their employees. That's why people try to get government jobs.

 

[Redfish]

Ya know. I keep hearing from fake conservatives about how we spend too much on welfare. Welfare would cause taxes to raise. Poor people want to steal more of my money. Blah, blah, blah.

Some interesting statistics:

Finland spends 3.2% of its federal budget on public assistance.

Great Britain spends a little over 4.6%

Israel spends 2.4%

Norway spends a whopping 6.2%.

And the US? 0.7%. That's it.

So, why can't we just increase that to 2%? We can take that 2% away from our bloated military budget. It would still make us the Western nation that spends the least amount of money on their poor, but imagine the massive effect that would have on poverty in this country. And it wouldn't even cost the tax payers one. Red. Cent. more than they are paying, now. Because I'm not suggesting increasing the budget. I'm suggesting giving public assistance a slightly larger piece of the existing budget.

Why is that such an outrageous idea?

I suspected that you were a mental midget, this thread confirms it. those other countries tax all your earnings at 50-60%. Then the super elites decide who gets "assistance".

But feel free to move to Norway if you want. Good riddance.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not to quibble, because I agree with what you're saying, but I think it's inaccurate to talk about a wage as though it reflects what "someone is worth". What we really mean, is how much their labor is worth. And that's a really, really simple equation: labor - anyone's labor - is worth exactly as much as another person is willing to pay for it.

And what another person is willing to pay for it is based on getting people to do the job for that money.

For instance, one of the worst paying professions is hair styling. Granted, it takes schooling, passing tests, government BS to sift through, all to work with hair.

So why does it pay so little? Because there are so many women who got into the field. Being a hair dresser is the dream job for many women. It's the supply and demand process.

The same thing happened to me when I was much younger back in the 80's. I was repairing medical equipment, so my company wanted me to go to electronics school. Okay, so I went to classes at night. After a couple of months of working full time and going to school, I became disgruntled. So I asked one of my teachers what I would be making after I get my FCC license which was one year of school. He told me about 16K per year. Hell, I was making more than that at my current job. Again, I asked what I would make if I stayed two years and got an associates degree. He told me about 18K per year. That's when I dropped out.

Electronics is very hard to learn. It's all math to be honest. So why did electronics jobs pay so little back then? Because many people wanted a job in electronics.

 

[Redfish]

Not to quibble, because I agree with what you're saying, but I think it's inaccurate to talk about a wage as though it reflects what "someone is worth". What we really mean, is how much their labor is worth. And that's a really, really simple equation: labor - anyone's labor - is worth exactly as much as another person is willing to pay for it.

And what another person is willing to pay for it is based on getting people to do the job for that money.

For instance, one of the worst paying professions is hair styling. Granted, it takes schooling, passing tests, government BS to sift through, all to work with hair.

So why does it pay so little? Because there are so many women who got into the field. Being a hair dresser is the dream job for many women. It's the supply and demand process.

The same thing happened to me when I was much younger back in the 80's. I was repairing medical equipment, so my company wanted me to go to electronics school. Okay, so I went to classes at night. After a couple of months of working full time and going to school, I became disgruntled. So I asked one of my teachers what I would be making after I get my FCC license which was one year of school. He told me about 16K per year. Hell, I was making more than that at my current job. Again, I asked what I would make if I stayed two years and got an associates degree. He told me about 18K per year. That's when I dropped out.

Electronics is very hard to learn. It's all math to be honest. So why did electronics jobs pay so little back then? Because many people wanted a job in electronics.

the rules of supply and demand are real. why do brain surgeons make more than burger flippers? Why are diamonds worth more than granite? supply and demand.

I don't understand why that is so hard for the liberal mind to grasp.

 

[Boss]

Quite a lot when you place your order at a push button kiosk, swipe your card to pay, have a machine grind the beef, cook your burger, assemble it, bag it and put it in the window for you to take and a roomba comes out after hours to sweep and mop the floor. IOW, there's little actual need for human interaction at tomorrow's McDonalds, and within 20 years you likely won't see a whole lot of employees working there. The biggest job will be for the guy who keeps the machines running and calls tech support. Of course, most machines can call tech support themselves, so not much need for that either.

And when one machine breaks, you close.

LMFAO.... As opposed to now, when the absolute geniuses at Mickey D's jump right in there and fix the broken shake machine instead of telling the customer... "our machine broke, sorry!"

 

[Redfish]

The OP is equivalent to asking ---------------- why can't the minimum wage be $100/hr? then everyone would have plenty of money to live and buy stuff.

 

[dblack]

Does a fire dispatcher require any more education than a McDonalds employee?

It makes no difference at all regarding what the job is worth. Even if working at McDonalds required a PhD in Chemistry, it wouldn't be worth much because most of us don't value burgers that much. You should really think about this, because I think it's key to your confusion on this issue.

It makes no difference at all regarding what the job is worth. Even if working at McDonalds required a PhD in Chemistry, it wouldn't be worth much because most of us don't value burgers that much. You should really think about this, because I think it's key to your confusion on this issue.

WTF? Because YOU don't value burgers, employees of burger joints shouldn't be paid a living wage?

Try reading it again. You can do it.

 

[dblack]

The goal and objective is record profit, usually more than the worth of the service and product.

Here's another opportunity to learn some basic economics. It's impossible to sell anything for more (or less) than it's worth. In fact, every single voluntary transaction is an agreement between two parties on what something is worth.

Here's another opportunity to learn some basic economics. It's impossible to sell anything for more (or less) than it's worth. In fact, every single voluntary transaction is an agreement between two parties on what something is worth

More bloviating

What? Too many big words?

 

[Boss]

*Sigh* ...I don't know of ANY corporation that intentionally spends capital they don't need to. The goal and objective of all capitalists is profit. In their board meetings, no one is saying... hey, we're making too much profit here, let's find something wasteful to blow money on so our profits aren't so high next year!

So you are asking me a straw man question. It has nothing to do with the point I made.

The goal and objective is record profit, usually more than the worth of the service and product.

Again... you continue to be amazingly wrong for a guy who claims to have made a fortune in business. I honestly don't think you have the business acumen to run a lemonade stand.

No... the goal and objective of all capitalists is to make profit. RECORD profits are a bonus and they usually mean bonuses.

Most corporations I have been associated with have a profit increase target of 10% annually. Anything below 10% growth is not sufficiently keeping up with competition and that's a problem.

 

[Redfish]

The goal and objective is record profit, usually more than the worth of the service and product.

Here's another opportunity to learn some basic economics. It's impossible to sell anything for more (or less) than it's worth. In fact, every single voluntary transaction is an agreement between two parties on what something is worth.

Here's another opportunity to learn some basic economics. It's impossible to sell anything for more (or less) than it's worth. In fact, every single voluntary transaction is an agreement between two parties on what something is worth

More bloviating

What? Too many big words?

the liberal mind is incapable of basic logic and reason. Its a form of mental illness.

 

[dblack]

Here's a thought.. aspire to do something with your life/career that pays?

Why shouldn't every job 'pay?'

Because every job isn't worth 'paying' for.

Because every job isn't worth 'paying' for.

Name one.

All of them, if the prospective employee has no appreciable skills.

All of them, if the prospective employee has no appreciable skills.

So you hire a person with no skills and don't pay him for a job that doesn't exist?

You've never heard of internships?

 

[Boss]

The OP is equivalent to asking ---------------- why can't the minimum wage be $100/hr? then everyone would have plenty of money to live and buy stuff.

I have often proposed exactly that to these nitwits who clamor for $15 min. wage. They always react the same way... Oh, that's impossible! That's ridiculous! That would never work! But.... they never explain why. It's because the principles are exactly the same it's just a different number.

 

[dblack]

By the way, 1%er, not sure if you saw my earlier question. In your view, should self-employed business owners be required to pay themselves a 'living wage'?

You should make a minimum of two to three times or more what you made as an employee.

Ahh.. ok, so, in your view, minimum wage for self-employed person should be even higher than it is for regular employees? What if they fail to pay themselves this minimum, what should the penalty be? A fine? Jail time?

 

[dblack]

We assist the wealthy by giving them subsidies, bailouts and industrial infrastructure.

We assist the middle class by cutting their wages, eliminating their benefits and monopolizing their services ... so that they can go deeper into to debt.

We assist the lower class by feeding them revanchist culture war fantasies so that they unwittingly do the bidding of the wealthy.

And who exactly is WE?????

Interesting question isn't it? I was noticing how it conveniently changes as the argument progresses.