Why can't Public Assistance increase?

[Conservative65]

Since wages haven't kept par with costs, the NEED for public assistance has increased.

Wage disparity is due to Americans finding their dream and wanting more than their dream is worth. During the Visa card economy of W., investors received record returns which they still want to receive, but the Visa card is maxed out, so companies take the easy way out and off-shore to slave workers.

I believe that CEO's have a responsibility to their companies and society and a whole. I talk-the-talk AND walk-the-walk by staring my employees at $23.50/hr plus benefits. None of my employees are a burden to society. Can Walmart say the same?

You start your employees at $49k a year?

He's a damn liar. Ask him to prove it by providing the name of the company and payroll records.

That's ridiculous, but I assume it's a high tech industry, the type we SHOULD be training workers for, but the GOP blocks. NAFTA TPP free trade etc could work, it is in Germany etc where they don't have an idiot GOP...

What's ridiculous about asking someone to prove what they claim they do?

The problem with you saying we should be training workers in certain fields is that you want those that aren't the parents of the kids funding for those kids what those kids own parents won't do for them. I'm in full support of training for high tech jobs. What I don't support is being forced to fund it when those that should be aren't doing it.

Perhaps you should move to Germany if you like what they do so much. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

You can't. Plus, I'm AMERICAN, a-hole. You move to Somalia. We're just trying to make GOP morons think at this point....no forget that, you're nuts. Independents.

Why can't I ask someone to prove their claim? Are you saying that a Liberal should be believed simply because they said it?

You're the one that claims to admire Germany. I don't admire Somalia.

 

[Conservative65]

The problem with idiots like you saying well regulated is that you also want to determine what that means and expect the rest of us to just agree.

It's called good gov't, and even a disgrace of an opposition like yours gets to help decide on it...

Again, you're deciding what you think is good and demanding the rest of us agree.

Any government that would enable it's citizens to be freeloaders by giving them more for nothing than they could earn while thinking that will motivate them to do better for themselves is NEVER good.

Unions are broken and the Greatest Generation is gone, so only gov't can watch out for the workers and the environment. Ethics free GOP CEOs and MBAs certainly won't...

So you do support an unwillingness to do for oneself what one should be doing?

If a company is paying a person what their skills are worth, what's unethical about that?

The problem with idiots like you saying well regulated is that you also want to determine what that means and expect the rest of us to just agree.

It's called good gov't, and even a disgrace of an opposition like yours gets to help decide on it...

Again, you're deciding what you think is good and demanding the rest of us agree.

Any government that would enable it's citizens to be freeloaders by giving them more for nothing than they could earn while thinking that will motivate them to do better for themselves is NEVER good.

Unions are broken and the Greatest Generation is gone, so only gov't can watch out for the workers and the environment. Ethics free GOP CEOs and MBAs certainly won't...

So you do support an unwillingness to do for oneself what one should be doing?

If a company is paying a person what their skills are worth, what's unethical about that?

Their unethical way of doing business. DUH. Trusting corps is moronic, for ignorant dupes like you ONLY.

Be more specific. Again, you're making a claim and expecting others to believe it because you said so. I don't believe you. You'll have to prove it.

 

[francoHFW]

It's called good gov't, and even a disgrace of an opposition like yours gets to help decide on it...

Again, you're deciding what you think is good and demanding the rest of us agree.

Any government that would enable it's citizens to be freeloaders by giving them more for nothing than they could earn while thinking that will motivate them to do better for themselves is NEVER good.

Unions are broken and the Greatest Generation is gone, so only gov't can watch out for the workers and the environment. Ethics free GOP CEOs and MBAs certainly won't...

So you do support an unwillingness to do for oneself what one should be doing?

If a company is paying a person what their skills are worth, what's unethical about that?

It's called good gov't, and even a disgrace of an opposition like yours gets to help decide on it...

Again, you're deciding what you think is good and demanding the rest of us agree.

Any government that would enable it's citizens to be freeloaders by giving them more for nothing than they could earn while thinking that will motivate them to do better for themselves is NEVER good.

Unions are broken and the Greatest Generation is gone, so only gov't can watch out for the workers and the environment. Ethics free GOP CEOs and MBAs certainly won't...

So you do support an unwillingness to do for oneself what one should be doing?

If a company is paying a person what their skills are worth, what's unethical about that?

Their unethical way of doing business. DUH. Trusting corps is moronic, for ignorant dupes like you ONLY.

Be more specific. Again, you're making a claim and expecting others to believe it because you said so. I don't believe you. You'll have to prove it.

Prove what, exactly?

 

[francoHFW]

You start your employees at $49k a year?

He's a damn liar. Ask him to prove it by providing the name of the company and payroll records.

That's ridiculous, but I assume it's a high tech industry, the type we SHOULD be training workers for, but the GOP blocks. NAFTA TPP free trade etc could work, it is in Germany etc where they don't have an idiot GOP...

What's ridiculous about asking someone to prove what they claim they do?

The problem with you saying we should be training workers in certain fields is that you want those that aren't the parents of the kids funding for those kids what those kids own parents won't do for them. I'm in full support of training for high tech jobs. What I don't support is being forced to fund it when those that should be aren't doing it.

Perhaps you should move to Germany if you like what they do so much. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

You can't. Plus, I'm AMERICAN, a-hole. You move to Somalia. We're just trying to make GOP morons think at this point....no forget that, you're nuts. Independents.

Why can't I ask someone to prove their claim? Are you saying that a Liberal should be believed simply because they said it?

You're the one that claims to admire Germany. I don't admire Somalia.

I admire them for not having a lying, thieving, brainwashed GOP disaster...

 

[Conservative65]

Again, you're deciding what you think is good and demanding the rest of us agree.

Any government that would enable it's citizens to be freeloaders by giving them more for nothing than they could earn while thinking that will motivate them to do better for themselves is NEVER good.

Unions are broken and the Greatest Generation is gone, so only gov't can watch out for the workers and the environment. Ethics free GOP CEOs and MBAs certainly won't...

So you do support an unwillingness to do for oneself what one should be doing?

If a company is paying a person what their skills are worth, what's unethical about that?

Again, you're deciding what you think is good and demanding the rest of us agree.

Any government that would enable it's citizens to be freeloaders by giving them more for nothing than they could earn while thinking that will motivate them to do better for themselves is NEVER good.

Unions are broken and the Greatest Generation is gone, so only gov't can watch out for the workers and the environment. Ethics free GOP CEOs and MBAs certainly won't...

So you do support an unwillingness to do for oneself what one should be doing?

If a company is paying a person what their skills are worth, what's unethical about that?

Their unethical way of doing business. DUH. Trusting corps is moronic, for ignorant dupes like you ONLY.

Be more specific. Again, you're making a claim and expecting others to believe it because you said so. I don't believe you. You'll have to prove it.

Prove what, exactly?

OnePercenter made the claim that he paid his employees $23.50/hour plus benefits to start. I asked that he prove it. You said that was ridiculous.

 

[Conservative65]

He's a damn liar. Ask him to prove it by providing the name of the company and payroll records.

That's ridiculous, but I assume it's a high tech industry, the type we SHOULD be training workers for, but the GOP blocks. NAFTA TPP free trade etc could work, it is in Germany etc where they don't have an idiot GOP...

What's ridiculous about asking someone to prove what they claim they do?

The problem with you saying we should be training workers in certain fields is that you want those that aren't the parents of the kids funding for those kids what those kids own parents won't do for them. I'm in full support of training for high tech jobs. What I don't support is being forced to fund it when those that should be aren't doing it.

Perhaps you should move to Germany if you like what they do so much. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

You can't. Plus, I'm AMERICAN, a-hole. You move to Somalia. We're just trying to make GOP morons think at this point....no forget that, you're nuts. Independents.

Why can't I ask someone to prove their claim? Are you saying that a Liberal should be believed simply because they said it?

You're the one that claims to admire Germany. I don't admire Somalia.

I admire them for not having a lying, thieving, brainwashed GOP disaster...

Once again, move there is you like it so much.

They've let a lot of Muslims in. Maybe one of them SOBs will blow you up or drive a truck through where you're standing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Helped the car companies and economy duh. Some marxists lol...

Yeah, mostly foreign car companies.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what do propose we do with these people that you claim don't have the skills to earn a living wage? Round them up and slaughter them perhaps?

Unless you are mentally retarded, you can go out and make a living wage. It's not a question of ability more than it is a question of desire.

When government keeps filling the trough, it takes away any desire to better yourself. Then you settle for whatever you make, what government gives you, or both.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Believe me dude, if it was explained to you, you wouldn't understand anyway. So why bother trying to.educate a fucking idiot.

You couldn't educate a third grader. Even a third grader would call you a liar just like the rest of us have.

 

[Muhammed]

So what do propose we do with these people that you claim don't have the skills to earn a living wage? Round them up and slaughter them perhaps?

Unless you are mentally retarded, you can go out and make a living wage. It's not a question of ability more than it is a question of desire.

When government keeps filling the trough, it takes away any desire to better yourself. Then you settle for whatever you make, what government gives you, or both.

You are dodging the question.

And you are just plain wrong. In case you haven't noticed, this country is 7 1/2 years into the Obama economic depression. There is massive unemployment among the youth, not because they don't want to better themselves, but because jobs are very scarce. They cannot develop workplace skills if they can't find a job in the first place. And in you believe the government's unemployment figures, you are incredibly naive. It's a lot worse than they claim it is.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are dodging the question.

And you are just plain wrong. In case you haven't noticed, this country is 7 1/2 years into the Obama economic depression.

Yes we are. But isn't part of that because we have so many people on the dole? After all, how can you have a prosperous country when people are living on government checks and not working? Over one-third of people within working age are not working, and they're not looking to work either. How are they getting by if not for government handouts?

I mean if something terrible happened to me, and I couldn't work for let's say three months, I would be wiped out. I would be forced to cash out my retirement plan and take at least some of that money now to pay all the bills. In one survey, they found that more than half of the people in this country couldn't handle an emergency bill such as an auto repair or medical procedure up to $1,000.

Most Americans can't handle a $500 surprise bill

 

[Boss]

Capital wants the lowest possible labor costs coupled with the lest possible competition. This is why it goes to Taiwan for sweatshop labor costs, and why it goes to congress for regulatory control over most domestic markets. Research the number of cable/internet providers and how they have (with the help of congress) divided the nation mostly into fixed no-compete zones, allowing them to raise rates/decrease services without being disciplined by market competition. Real money comes from government protected monopolies.

Capital wants and gets a ton of free technological research and advanced industrial infrastructure. The 80s consumer electronics boom was heavily dependent upon the state sector (mostly Defense and NASA). Research the history of satellite and Internet technology or containerization or Aerospace, to name only a few industries. FDR and Reagan were masters of Military Keynesianism; both grew the economy and our technological superiority with the help of The Big Government Defense Sector.

[Most Republicans don't know the kind of subsidies say Boeing received. Nor do they understand how WWII manufacturing helped to end the depression; nor do they know how the aforementioned government-lead manufacturing was converted to the commercial boom that undergird the great postwar growth from 1945-1973.]

[Seriously, ask a republican to talk about the government-lead industrial output of WWII or the Cold War (including the number of jobs and spenders it put into the economy), and then ask how said output was converted to domestic commercial uses... and you will get a blank stare followed by simplistic cliches about the evils of government. These people are know-nothings who have never studied this stuff - never fucking read an actual policy paper. They get their information from pop media bafoons like Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin]

The carrying capacity of the Southwest, with all its thriving profit centers, wouldn't exist without the Hoover Dam and the multi-trillion dollar engineering of the Colorado tributary system, which no combination of corporations could have afforded in the 20s. Same goes for the nation's energy or overseas trade routes, which require a massive military (government) effort across multiple continents.

The reason why large corporations build massive offices in Washington DC is precisely because so much profit making is parasitic on the public dollar.

And when those large corporations place massive bets they can't cover, like AIG and their corrupt derivative insurance scam, who do you think bails them out so that the global market doesn't tank?

Listen, my family owned a successful small business across several generations. I support a system that provides incentives to the productive, one that doesn't reward laziness. This is second grade stuff.

I also think price controls are fucking moronic because they not only fail to create appropriate incentives for suppliers but no central planner could ever have enough information to predict consumer behavior.

Let's cut to the chase. The Republican Party takes advantage of well-meaning uneducated people who have no clue the degree to which profit makers are parasitic on the state. This means any debate regarding government involvement in the economy can't even get started.

Turn off Fox News and go to a library.

Let's get you up to speed on some things here.... Capitalism comes in all shapes and forms. The Russians, China and North Korea engage in Capitalism... it's not free market capitalism, it's Marxist-Socialist-Fascist capitalism... but it's Capitalism.

What you have an objection to is what many in the current anti-establishment GOP object to... Crony Corporatist Capitalism. That is NOT Free Market Capitalism. The Corporatist unfairly uses the powers of government to leverage an advantage over his competition... that's the antithesis of "free markets" and is actually more subversive and damaging to free market capitalism than Marxist socialism.

Whoosh! And the point goes straight over your head. He's saying (among other things) that there is a symbiotic relationship between government and industry that provides much or most of what we enjoy as an advanced technological society.

No there's not and that's not what has created our advanced technological society. This is the reason you keep getting things wrong. From the most fundamental level, you don't comprehend reality. Then you build an ideology based on that. If what you are claiming were true, every nation on the planet would enjoy technological advancement and that's clearly not the case.

There is a reason why we are the most technologically advanced and it is no coincidence our government was most certainly designed and intended to be small and limited in power.

It is our individual freedom to pursue our interests and passions, our ability to freely participate in enterprise and commerce with each other. To trade, barter and sell our ideas, our skills and our talents. To develop those ideas and build upon them without being encumbered by outside forces of power or their influence, or the influence of their agents.

To what extent we need government, it is to protect that freedom and liberty and stay the hell out of the way. That's a huge and important job, make no mistake, but to claim that there is a "symbiotic relationship" is just plain wrong.

Like most hard core right wingers, you are the polar opposite of a visionary. As such, you apparently believe that the Constitution is absolute in your personal interpretation of it and was written by prophets.

Furthermore, I would peg your understanding of the technological development process at the level of a savvy kindergartener. I develop technological IP for a living and I can tell you that if something we innovate won't pay off in a maximum of five years (two years is more typical), it doesn't receive funding to see the light of day. I'm personally grateful that big science and big infrastructure has been funded by the government. If you had even a hazy understanding of how our modern world came to be, you would be too.

Let me first say, your personal insults don't impress me and they make terrible argumentative points. Whenever you have to immediately resort to juvenile quips about your adversary, you've already lost the debate. It confirms to me that you have no basis for a response other than your unfounded opinion. As is revealed in your post, that is essentially all you have.

I believe the Constitution is absolute in the framer's understanding which is articulated in the Federalist Papers, of which I have read. I doubt you have ever read them, nor would you have the intellectual capacity to understand them if you did. Take note that I just insulted you but I did so whilst making a valid and enlightening point. There is a huge but subtle difference.

The fact that you are receiving some gravy from government completely nullifies your ability to be an objective actor. You are simply a parasite making the argument about why the host is so awesome. But because you leach off the host, doesn't mean that is it's purpose for existing.

I think I do understand how the modern world came to be and it's you who is confused. You seem to think we miraculously established some kind of magical government that was superior to all other governments somehow... even through years of slavery, segregation and all the rest, was able to become the world's greatest superpower and give forth the bounty of all our technological achievement. I think that is a total load of crap.

Our government was established to be small and limited in power. To have as it's main and primary function, the protection of individual freedom and rights to property. In doing so, this enabled individual private endeavor (aka: free enterprise) to blossom and out-grow, out-produce, and out-achieve all other nations on the planet in a relatively short time, as nations go.

 

[OnePercenter]

Wage disparity and wealth disparity are the result of legal racketeering.

Well, not only is that an oxymoron, it's also about the third baseless argument you've presented for wage/wealth disparity. You just keep getting sillier with your claims and you've not supported any of them.

I stand by what I've said and I explained exactly why we have wage/wealth disparity in a free market capitalist system... it's because that's natural in ANY free market system. The only kind of system you can have where there is never disparity in wages or wealth is a closed and isolated despotic system like North Korea.

There, the ruling class elite control all the wealth and everyone's "wages" are essentially the same.

'Wage disparity and wealth disparity are the result of legal racketeering.' How in the hell is that an oxymoron?

Racketeering, often associated with organized crime, is the act of offering of a dishonest service (a "racket") to solve a problem that wouldn't otherwise exist without the enterprise offering the service.Racketeering as defined by the RICO act includes a list of 35 crimes.

Racketeering is, by definition, illegal. Something can't be both legal and illegal... thus "legal racketeering" is an oxymoron... moron.

Capitalism is the legitimate racket of the ruling class...Alphonse Gabriel Capone

Walmart is the largest 'legitimate racket' in the world. If you're a City or County and you want a Walmart to open in you respective area, YOU have to approach them with a handful of giveaways such as free/discounted land and or buildings, No employee tax. Keeping sales tax collected. No property tax. etc.

Of course the giveaways are for a limited time. What do you want to bet that all of those Walmart stores that closed because of 'plumbing problems' were at the end of their giveaway time.

Walmart IS the poster child of 'legitimate racketeering.'

 

[Conservative65]

So what do propose we do with these people that you claim don't have the skills to earn a living wage? Round them up and slaughter them perhaps?

Unless you are mentally retarded, you can go out and make a living wage. It's not a question of ability more than it is a question of desire.

When government keeps filling the trough, it takes away any desire to better yourself. Then you settle for whatever you make, what government gives you, or both.

Why would a horse go look elsewhere if the drinking trough keeps getting filled?

 

[Conservative65]

Believe me dude, if it was explained to you, you wouldn't understand anyway. So why bother trying to.educate a fucking idiot.

You couldn't educate a third grader. Even a third grader would call you a liar just like the rest of us have.

Translation of Wilbur's statement: I can't do it so I'll make an excuse why it's your fault.

 

[Boss]

You are dodging the question.

And you are just plain wrong. In case you haven't noticed, this country is 7 1/2 years into the Obama economic depression.

Yes we are. But isn't part of that because we have so many people on the dole? After all, how can you have a prosperous country when people are living on government checks and not working? Over one-third of people within working age are not working, and they're not looking to work either. How are they getting by if not for government handouts?

I mean if something terrible happened to me, and I couldn't work for let's say three months, I would be wiped out. I would be forced to cash out my retirement plan and take at least some of that money now to pay all the bills. In one survey, they found that more than half of the people in this country couldn't handle an emergency bill such as an auto repair or medical procedure up to $1,000.

Most Americans can't handle a $500 surprise bill

Ray, I love you man-- but you're getting off into some murky territory here. You just posted a CBS News link... (that should be a sign.) This is emotive propaganda designed to appeal to nit wits who think the government needs to save us. Oh, the humanity... most people can't handle a $500 surprise! What to do, what to do?

I agree that we do have a problem with too much government-funded welfare but presenting an emotive argument that seeks more government welfare is counter-intuitive. The primary problem with the lack of jobs pointed out by Muhammed is the result of Obama policies like his ACA and it's mandates on employers. The only jobs available now are shit jobs that no one wants. Part-time work without any benefits because employers can get around the mandates that way.

While we may need some reforms on the government handouts, it does no good to "kick people off the dole" as you say, if they have no opportunity due to excessive government mandates on business. What you'll get is more suffering and crime which will be exploited by the Marxists to push for more welfare and castigate you for being the evil person who cut it in the first place.

I personally think we've made progress in cutting a lot of welfare programs... maybe not enough... maybe we need to cut some more, eventually... but right now, the problem is not the welfare programs, it's the massive government mandates choking business and eliminating the possibility of new jobs. When we see real jobs being created, unemployment dropping, economic growth that is no longer anemic, then we can discuss cutting more welfare programs. I actually prefer welfare-to-workfare type programs which transition people from welfare and ween them from the government teat over time.

 

[Conservative65]

Wage disparity and wealth disparity are the result of legal racketeering.

Well, not only is that an oxymoron, it's also about the third baseless argument you've presented for wage/wealth disparity. You just keep getting sillier with your claims and you've not supported any of them.

I stand by what I've said and I explained exactly why we have wage/wealth disparity in a free market capitalist system... it's because that's natural in ANY free market system. The only kind of system you can have where there is never disparity in wages or wealth is a closed and isolated despotic system like North Korea.

There, the ruling class elite control all the wealth and everyone's "wages" are essentially the same.

'Wage disparity and wealth disparity are the result of legal racketeering.' How in the hell is that an oxymoron?

Racketeering, often associated with organized crime, is the act of offering of a dishonest service (a "racket") to solve a problem that wouldn't otherwise exist without the enterprise offering the service.Racketeering as defined by the RICO act includes a list of 35 crimes.

Racketeering is, by definition, illegal. Something can't be both legal and illegal... thus "legal racketeering" is an oxymoron... moron.

Capitalism is the legitimate racket of the ruling class...Alphonse Gabriel Capone

Walmart is the largest 'legitimate racket' in the world. If you're a City or County and you want a Walmart to open in you respective area, YOU have to approach them with a handful of giveaways such as free/discounted land and or buildings, No employee tax. Keeping sales tax collected. No property tax. etc.

Of course the giveaways are for a limited time. What do you want to bet that all of those Walmart stores that closed because of 'plumbing problems' were at the end of their giveaway time.

Walmart IS the poster child of 'legitimate racketeering.'

I once served on the Zoning and Planning Commission where I live. We didn't have to approach Walmart when they wanted to build two of their Neighborhood Market grocery stores. The approached us.

 

[OnePercenter]

Could any of the Democrats in the forum explain how destroying hundreds of thousands of good used cars, the only ones that poor people can afford BTW, helps the poor?

You fuckers are maniacal idiots.

Define 'good used cars.' My hobby is car collecting. I own 50, 60's and early 70's muscle cars. If their wasn't a collector market, I wouldn't own them.

 

[OnePercenter]

I believe that a business owner has a moral obligation to pay their employees (that make them all of their monies) high enough where the employee doesn't become a burden on society.

So if somebody is a burden on society, it's the employers fault and not the individual that is working for that employer?

That's like saying it's the banks fault for getting robbed because the bank had a lot of money and the robber had little.

If we make everybody's life better by forcing industry to overpay a worker, how do you expect the worker to ever want to better themselves?

My first full-time job was at a car wash. It was an idiots job. I took money from customers, put them on the line, and hit a button to send the car through the wash.

Imagine if back then, we did things the way liberals want to do it now! I may have spent my life at that car wash, or wasted a lot of my life working there until I finally decided to do something better with my time on this earth.

Minimum wage employees in our country make up about 3% of our workforce. You are not going to have wage disparity because of that 3%. And within a years time, most of those in that 3% end up making more than minimum wage. So your logic is flawed.

So you don't believe in returning to the community?

So you consider the government taking it through a mandate as a business giving back to the community? Giving back involves a willful act by the giver not a mandate from the taker.

I expect the government to come down hard on business that pay so little that their employees qualify for public assistance, especially when the business has received public funds.

In other words, you demand that a business pay a higher wage to an employer than the skills the workers provides are worth. Got it.

If the employee makes all of the monies for the company how much are their services worth?

 

[Conservative65]

So if somebody is a burden on society, it's the employers fault and not the individual that is working for that employer?

That's like saying it's the banks fault for getting robbed because the bank had a lot of money and the robber had little.

If we make everybody's life better by forcing industry to overpay a worker, how do you expect the worker to ever want to better themselves?

My first full-time job was at a car wash. It was an idiots job. I took money from customers, put them on the line, and hit a button to send the car through the wash.

Imagine if back then, we did things the way liberals want to do it now! I may have spent my life at that car wash, or wasted a lot of my life working there until I finally decided to do something better with my time on this earth.

Minimum wage employees in our country make up about 3% of our workforce. You are not going to have wage disparity because of that 3%. And within a years time, most of those in that 3% end up making more than minimum wage. So your logic is flawed.

So you don't believe in returning to the community?

So you consider the government taking it through a mandate as a business giving back to the community? Giving back involves a willful act by the giver not a mandate from the taker.

I expect the government to come down hard on business that pay so little that their employees qualify for public assistance, especially when the business has received public funds.

In other words, you demand that a business pay a higher wage to an employer than the skills the workers provides are worth. Got it.

If the employee makes all of the monies for the company how much are their services worth?

What the one doing the paying says they're worth. If they don't like the pay, go elsewhere. I hear you pay $23.50/hour to start yet have seen absolutely no proof of that claim.

If a company does well, you give credit to the workers. If the company does poorly, do you blame the workers?