Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Some of you remind me of Scalia in his Casey dissent. The Justice was hysterically apoplectic:

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833 (1992)

Note the scarcity of case law and precedent – like some of you he blames ‘politics’ and a kind of ‘national peer pressure.’ He notes the issue of privacy only once and not in a directly legal context.

Clearly there is no firm legal ground upon which a case against the right to privacy may be built. And consequently there is no legal argument that can made to compel the issue of abortion to be moved from under that Constitutional protection.

 

[JBeukema]

Clearly there is no firm legal ground upon which a case against the right to privacy may be built.

When I kill you, I have no right to privacy regarding that act.

I fact, the records of the proceedings are all a matter of public record.


There is no 'right to privacy' that justifies homicide.

 

[PixieStix]

Clearly there is no firm legal ground upon which a case against the right to privacy may be built.

When I kill you, I have no right to privacy regarding that act.

I fact, the records of the proceedings are all a matter of public record.


There is no 'right to privacy' that justifies homicide.

Stop it JB....that makes too much sense

 

[Cecilie1200]

If legalization of abortions reduced the numbers of abortions, they wouldn't have increased exponentially after the legalization of abortion.

Can't imagine why anyone would think "The government says you can do this if you want" would somehow DISCOURAGE it. What, then, is the purpose of the government ever OUTLAWING anything?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

You will have to answer to someone.... eventually.

If you believe in the same God I do and I have always thought that you do, then forgiveness has long been extended.

Immie

Forgiveness being extended is not the same as being forgiven. For that, one must feel remorse, want forgiveness, and intend to change.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Some of you remind me of Scalia in his Casey dissent. The Justice was hysterically apoplectic:

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833 (1992)

Note the scarcity of case law and precedent – like some of you he blames ‘politics’ and a kind of ‘national peer pressure.’ He notes the issue of privacy only once and not in a directly legal context.

Clearly there is no firm legal ground upon which a case against the right to privacy may be built. And consequently there is no legal argument that can made to compel the issue of abortion to be moved from under that Constitutional protection.

All that has ever been needed to argue against a general "right to privacy" is common sense: crimes are usually committed in private, and obviously, we do not respect people's "privacy" when they are harming others.

Furthermore, nowhere in the Constitution - or any other law that I'm aware of - is there codified a generalized "privacy right". Our laws protect SPECIFIC privacies, at specific times and under specific circumstances.

 

[Dr Grump]

You are bat shit crazy.

Ya think?

 

[Dr Grump]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

You will have to answer to someone.... eventually.

only to herself...

 

[JBeukema]

 

[JBeukema]

 

[Varth Dader]

8 cells is not a baby. 16 cells is not a baby. 32 cells is not a baby. etc.

• S: (n) baby (an unborn child; a human fetus) "I felt healthy and very feminine carrying the baby"; "it was great to feel my baby moving about inside"

WordNet Search - 3.1

If embryos are destroyed in fertility clinics, are these abortions too?

S: (n) abortion (termination of pregnancy)
WordNet Search - 3.1


Why can't you people ever be honest?

At what age did you become a 'baby' by whatever definition makes you feel good about killing children?

Speaking of honesty. I checked the first link you provided. The first definition is:

S: (n) baby, babe, infant (a very young child (birth to 1 year) who has not yet begun to walk or talk) "the baby began to cry again"; "she held the baby in her arms"; "it sounds simple, but when you have your own baby it is all so different"

Apparently you had to pick the 4th definition to find a definition to match with your argument.

I refuse to engage in a debate about the word baby. I personally wouldn't call 8 cells a baby, but it seems you do. Fine. Call that a baby. And indeed, when you abort, you are killing that entity, which according to you, is a baby.

So, what is the next step? Is there a next step?

Tell us about under cases that relate to abortion. For example, I think I asked you before but did not recall an answer, do you think a mother that takes alcohol or smokes during a pregnancy should face consequences? How about the one that attempts to kill herself, fails but kills the fetus inside her tummy? Is that the same? Or how about the couple that uses fertility clinic services which kills embryos? Is that the same?

 

[Varth Dader]

What kind of sick fucker thinks of a baby as "punishment"?

Think he'll ever tell his daughters what he thinks of them?

Look, I got two daughters - 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby
-Barrack H. Obama, President of the United States
​

When Bristol Palin campaigns against teen pregnancies, is she saying that she regrets having her baby?

 

[Cecilie1200]

What kind of sick fucker thinks of a baby as "punishment"?

Think he'll ever tell his daughters what he thinks of them?

Look, I got two daughters - 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby
-Barrack H. Obama, President of the United States
​

When Bristol Palin campaigns against teen pregnancies, is she saying that she regrets having her baby?

No, she's saying that the circumstances under which she got pregnant with him were not a good idea. If she were campaigning for teenaged abortions, THAT would indicate that she regrets having her baby.

 

[Varth Dader]

Think he'll ever tell his daughters what he thinks of them?

Look, I got two daughters - 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby
-Barrack H. Obama, President of the United States
​

When Bristol Palin campaigns against teen pregnancies, is she saying that she regrets having her baby?

No, she's saying that the circumstances under which she got pregnant with him were not a good idea. If she were campaigning for teenaged abortions, THAT would indicate that she regrets having her baby.

Yeah right. Does she regret her decision? Would she do something different otherwise? If she has no regrets about having her baby, she should also have no regrets about what directly led to it.

 

[JBeukema]

I'll address your [idiotic] questions [that I've answered dozens of time] when you answer my question.

At what point did what change that made killing you in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?

 

[Cecilie1200]

8 cells is not a baby. 16 cells is not a baby. 32 cells is not a baby. etc.

• S: (n) baby (an unborn child; a human fetus) "I felt healthy and very feminine carrying the baby"; "it was great to feel my baby moving about inside"

WordNet Search - 3.1

If embryos are destroyed in fertility clinics, are these abortions too?

S: (n) abortion (termination of pregnancy)
WordNet Search - 3.1


Why can't you people ever be honest?

At what age did you become a 'baby' by whatever definition makes you feel good about killing children?

Speaking of honesty. I checked the first link you provided. The first definition is:

S: (n) baby, babe, infant (a very young child (birth to 1 year) who has not yet begun to walk or talk) "the baby began to cry again"; "she held the baby in her arms"; "it sounds simple, but when you have your own baby it is all so different"

Apparently you had to pick the 4th definition to find a definition to match with your argument.

I refuse to engage in a debate about the word baby. I personally wouldn't call 8 cells a baby, but it seems you do. Fine. Call that a baby. And indeed, when you abort, you are killing that entity, which according to you, is a baby.

So, what is the next step? Is there a next step?

Tell us about under cases that relate to abortion. For example, I think I asked you before but did not recall an answer, do you think a mother that takes alcohol or smokes during a pregnancy should face consequences? How about the one that attempts to kill herself, fails but kills the fetus inside her tummy? Is that the same? Or how about the couple that uses fertility clinic services which kills embryos? Is that the same?

It's news to you that words have multiple meanings and usages? Or it's somehow dishonest to you to point out one definition in particular?

Yes, baby is often used to specify a child after birth, usually by people like you who want to pretend that unborn children are not alive. This is why certain dictionaries now make mention of this peculiarity. Many don't even bother, however, and just stick to the much more common (and more established) usage.

Note, for example, that Merriam-Webster keeps the definitions for "baby" very general, as its usage also usually is:

1 a (1): an extremely young child; especially: infant (2): an extremely young animal b: the youngest of a group

2 a: one that is like a baby (as in behavior) b: something that is one's special responsibility, achievement, or interest

On the other hand, if you look at the more specific synonym, "infant", you find this:


1 a (1): an extremely young child; especially: infant (2): an extremely young animal b: the youngest of a group


2 a: one that is like a baby (as in behavior) b: something that is one's special responsibility, achievement, or interest

The words people mistakenly try to use to mean "something other than a baby", like "fetus" and "embryo", are really only medical terms for denoting specific stages of development, and all refer to "babies".

 

[AllieBaba]

When Bristol Palin campaigns against teen pregnancies, is she saying that she regrets having her baby?

No, she's saying that the circumstances under which she got pregnant with him were not a good idea. If she were campaigning for teenaged abortions, THAT would indicate that she regrets having her baby.

Yeah right. Does she regret her decision? Would she do something different otherwise? If she has no regrets about having her baby, she should also have no regrets about what directly led to it.

Well I just have to say that's a crock of shit. The world is FULL of women (and you bet I'm one and I know a lot more) who are perfectly happy with their child but regret the FUCK out of the actions that produced it. I adore my children and don't want them changed in any way but I hate their piece of shit father and wish he had never been born, wish I had never met him, wish I'd never wasted any time on him at all.

So your theory that someone can't love their child and regret making it at the same time is crappola.

 

[AllieBaba]

And in fact the whole world would be better off if the obnoxious shitheel would do everybody a favor and die like the animal he is.

Just saying.

Love our kids, though. Won't let him anywhere near them. Hope it makes him sleep badly at night.

 

[Cecilie1200]

When Bristol Palin campaigns against teen pregnancies, is she saying that she regrets having her baby?

No, she's saying that the circumstances under which she got pregnant with him were not a good idea. If she were campaigning for teenaged abortions, THAT would indicate that she regrets having her baby.

Yeah right. Does she regret her decision? Would she do something different otherwise? If she has no regrets about having her baby, she should also have no regrets about what directly led to it.

Says who? You? Who elected YOU Supreme High Arbiter of How People Have To Feel?

A woman can regret making the decision to have sex (or many other decisions) without regretting the decision to give birth to the resultant baby.

Let me clarify for you, Sparky. The circumstances under which I had my first child were VERY not optimal (No, you can't ask. It's none of your business). I regretted those circumstances quite a bit, but I NEVER regretted my child. She was the silver lining on the dark cloud, the blessing that God generously granted me out of adversity. She was also, in many ways, the main reason I regretted the circumstances so much: because I loved her more than anyone in my entire life, and she deserved better. But regretting that I didn't do better by her does NOT equate to regretting HER.

 

[AllieBaba]

No shit. Honestly, I know many women who have kids they love, but still rue the day they ever met that kid's dad. Pretty much every divorced woman with kids, lol.