Why China’s ‘unstoppable’ £175billion military is now the biggest threat to world order – and the West can’t keep up

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

This is not at all clear — indeed is almost certainly untrue. The U.S., for many reasons, must NOT adopt a jingoistic or extreme militarist policy toward China. Mainland China is an unsinkable aircraft carrier with a growing military and a great industrial power in Asia. It will probably remain the most powerful regional hegemon in East and Southeast Asia for the foreseeable future. Our policy must not be to seek war with it, nor to encourage it to seize Taiwan. For now China’s leadership need only be convinced that a straight-out invasion of Taiwan would kill the Golden Goose it covets, and is in no way worthwhile.

Yes, it can, and I wonder why you are degrading our military capabilities.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Yes, it can, and I wonder why you are degrading our military capabilities.

With all respect, I think you should spend your time and energy in “wondering” about more important matters … than my supposed “degrading” of “our military capabilities”!

Do you really want a world war? Do you really think it will be an easy U.S. victory, where “The US can at the same time wreck China's AF and navy, then concentrate on Russia, while Israel bombs Iran into the Stone Age….”?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Your capability in analyzing Vietnam and American capability are nil, Tom.

I do know that Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea combined do not have the ability to conduct a successful WWIII against the US.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

John Edgar Slow Horses , there will be no “successful WWIII” … for anybody.

We are not talking about Vietnam here. But iirc your own (romanticized) view of that terrible U.S. mistaken “war of choice” showed precisely the danger and horror of overestimating our military prowess and underestimating numerous other political, economic and social factors.

What has suddenly gotten into you???

 

[Mushroom]

@John Edgar Slow Horses , there will be no “successful WWIII” … for anybody.

Those that have never served and would never serve in the military seem all too often to be the ones that want to use the military the most for their own crazy purposes.

And no, we do not have the ability to win WWIII, short of nuking any country we are fighting. And that would be a completely pyrrhic victory, likely only done if other nations launched against us first. But we have long known that if a future war goes nuclear, nobody wins and everybody loses.

Oh, but also do not confuse wars like Vietnam as "military defeats". Those were political defeats, caused entirely by our own politicians. The modern State Department and Congress have this amazing ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and forbid the military from doing its job without so much interference to degrees that would have seen the US lose every war since 1775.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Yes, Vietnam was a political defeat.

It's interesting to watch Tom Paine and Musroom opine away.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

John Edgar Slow Horses , there will be no “successful WWIII” … for anybody. We are not talking about Vietnam here. But iirc your own (romanticized) view of that terrible U.S. mistaken “war of choice” showed precisely the danger and horror of overestimating our military prowess and underestimating numerous other political, economic and social factors. What has suddenly gotten into you???

Those are not my words only yours, Tom. You don't get it, and that's fine, but make sure you separate your opinion from my words. Facts will help you, too.

 

[Mac-7]

I do find this concerning. The West is spending their time and resources with Ukraine while China continues to beef up their military arsenal to a point they may be reasonably unstoppable. Xi Jinping has already stated he intends to take back Taiwan. It's not an if, it's a when, and when that happens then what? The United States can't fend off Russia and China. Plus, throw Iran into the mix and who knows what will be going on with Israel at the time. Even with the help of Europe, who have been underfunding their military capabilities for years, this can turn into a very serious global threat. We need to sever ties with China completely. Our trading with them is funding this threat.

China's 'unstoppable' military is now biggest world threat & West can’t keep up

CHINA has crafted an unstoppable military under Xi Jinping’s ruthless dictatorship which poses the greatest threat to the world order, experts have warned. As the West steels itself for globa…

www.thesun.co.uk

The best way to slow down communist china is to stop trading with them

That does not mean an overnight boycott but a steady pulling back from buying their products

 

[Donald H]

The best way to slow down communist china is to stop trading with them

Some of you will never accept that China is more able to pull away from trading with the US, as opposed to vice versa.

That does not mean an overnight boycott but a steady pulling back from buying their products

And too, most Americans aren't accepting that Russia is booming on account of their turn away from trade with the US.

 

[Mac-7]

Some of you will never accept that China is more able to pull away from trading with the US, as opposed to vice versa.

And your logic for that claim is what?

Other than raw materials to supply its factories communist china buys almost nothing from other countries

So a reduction is trade hurts them more

 

[martybegan]

I do find this concerning. The West is spending their time and resources with Ukraine while China continues to beef up their military arsenal to a point they may be reasonably unstoppable. Xi Jinping has already stated he intends to take back Taiwan. It's not an if, it's a when, and when that happens then what? The United States can't fend off Russia and China. Plus, throw Iran into the mix and who knows what will be going on with Israel at the time. Even with the help of Europe, who have been underfunding their military capabilities for years, this can turn into a very serious global threat. We need to sever ties with China completely. Our trading with them is funding this threat.

China's 'unstoppable' military is now biggest world threat & West can’t keep up

CHINA has crafted an unstoppable military under Xi Jinping’s ruthless dictatorship which poses the greatest threat to the world order, experts have warned. As the West steels itself for globa…

www.thesun.co.uk

Unless they figure out a way to make a land bridge to Taiwan, they would be shit out of luck.

2-3 nuclear subs would hash any possible invasion force, at least for the next 10 years or so.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Unless they figure out a way to make a land bridge to Taiwan, they would be shit out of luck.

2-3 nuclear subs would hash any possible invasion force, at least for the next 10 years or so.

I know people in the military who don't agree with you.

 

[TheParser]

1. China may have more equipment.

2. But who has the more brains? Who has the better morale?

3. The Arab nations have often had the best and most military resources, but each time Israel has beaten back Arab armies (although reportedly the Arabs came pretty close one time).

 

[Failzero]

China has 3 Carriers and two keels laid ( they want a 20 Carrier fleet in the next 15 years .

 

[Mushroom]

Some of you will never accept that China is more able to pull away from trading with the US, as opposed to vice versa.

Actually, that is far from true.

The US is the number 1 exporter of China for raw materials (specifically copper and iron), as well as all other goods (especially high in the high tech goods they can not make themselves). In excess of $150 billion dollars worth. The US is also the largest importer of finished goods, at over $500 billion.

We can easily find other nations to import from, which is what we did for decades. The large shift to importing from China is actually fairly recent, and a lot of nations would jump at the chance to take their place (or resume their former place). Especially Vietnam, Indonesia, India, and Philippines.

But tell me, if the US cuts off their exports, where is China going to get their raw materials? They get about 26% of their raw materials from the US. And if the US companies pull out, what in the hell are they going to make? You are aware that most of their most profitable exports are not actually "theirs", right? They do not actually design much of anything, a hell of a lot of their exports are simply manufactured there, they are not actually designed there. That is why China is insignificant in the global market for things like cell phones, computers, game systems, and just about anything else.

The simple fact is, China actually ranks really low in the tech industry when it comes to domestic products.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

China has 3 Carriers and two keels laid ( they want a 20 Carrier fleet in the next 15 years .

That would be a game changer, yes

 

[Mushroom]

China has 3 Carriers and two keels laid ( they want a 20 Carrier fleet in the next 15 years .

No, they have not even that.

What they have is a Soviet made heavy aircraft cruiser, a domestic copy of the Soviet heavy aircraft cruiser, and one that is largely comparable to the Kitty Hawk class carriers the US launched in the 1960s (which is still undergoing sea trials).

The simple fact is, in a great many ways the "carriers" of the Japanese Navy are more formidable than that of China. Especially when considered what China will be flying off of them are domestic copies of a Soviet design from the 1970s. Meanwhile, Japan would use the F-35B, a significant advancement in almost every way.

Oh, and they do not have "two keels laid". In fact, they have no keels laid. The Type 001 is a single class of one ship. The Type 002 is also a single class of one ship. The Type 003 is a single class of one ship. The Type 004 is nowhere even close to starting building. They are planning on building 4 of those, but construction is not even expected to begin for another 5-7 years. They do not even have the power plants for the design finished, and that is not expected for another 3-4 years at a minimum.

Oh, and they are planning on using the J-35 fighter from that craft. As of this date they have not built a single one, not even a prototype. If you think they can crap out a 5th generation naval fighter overnight, I got some prime ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Especially when the J-31 is a navalized variant of the FC-31. That program has built exactly one prototype, which did test flights in 2012 and 2013. The very fact that the single prototype is all they have and it has done little in over a decade should scream how far behind that project is. To give an idea, the first prototypes of the F-35 were operational in 2001, and the first aircraft delivered to the military were in 2006. Five years from prototype to initial delivery. They are now at over 11 years with 0 aircraft delivered (or even close to delivery). China was relying on a lot of the money for that program to come from foreign nations, but everybody has given it a hard pass and they are on their own there.

You see, that is the problem when people try to simply make things up. Especially when they are things that are not hard to check.

 

[Moonglow]

maybe people should stop supporting biden and stand behind the only person that seems to care about america donal trump,,

and china doesnt need their military to take out our country,,
thanks to democrats and republicans they control our manufacturing and prescription drugs ,,
so all they have to do is cut that off wait a week and walk right in,,

Lol

 

[Failzero]

S

No, they have not even that.

What they have is a Soviet made heavy aircraft cruiser, a domestic copy of the Soviet heavy aircraft cruiser, and one that is largely comparable to the Kitty Hawk class carriers the US launched in the 1960s (which is still undergoing sea trials).

The simple fact is, in a great many ways the "carriers" of the Japanese Navy are more formidable than that of China. Especially when considered what China will be flying off of them are domestic copies of a Soviet design from the 1970s. Meanwhile, Japan would use the F-35B, a significant advancement in almost every way.

Oh, and they do not have "two keels laid". In fact, they have no keels laid. The Type 001 is a single class of one ship. The Type 002 is also a single class of one ship. The Type 003 is a single class of one ship. The Type 004 is nowhere even close to starting building. They are planning on building 4 of those, but construction is not even expected to begin for another 5-7 years. They do not even have the power plants for the design finished, and that is not expected for another 3-4 years at a minimum.

Oh, and they are planning on using the J-35 fighter from that craft. As of this date they have not built a single one, not even a prototype. If you think they can crap out a 5th generation naval fighter overnight, I got some prime ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Especially when the J-31 is a navalized variant of the FC-31. That program has built exactly one prototype, which did test flights in 2012 and 2013. The very fact that the single prototype is all they have and it has done little in over a decade should scream how far behind that project is. To give an idea, the first prototypes of the F-35 were operational in 2001, and the first aircraft delivered to the military were in 2006. Five years from prototype to initial delivery. They are now at over 11 years with 0 aircraft delivered (or even close to delivery). China was relying on a lot of the money for that program to come from foreign nations, but everybody has given it a hard pass and they are on their own there.

You see, that is the problem when people try to simply make things up. Especially when they are things that are not hard to check.

No, they have not even that.

What they have is a Soviet made heavy aircraft cruiser, a domestic copy of the Soviet heavy aircraft cruiser, and one that is largely comparable to the Kitty Hawk class carriers the US launched in the 1960s (which is still undergoing sea trials).

The simple fact is, in a great many ways the "carriers" of the Japanese Navy are more formidable than that of China. Especially when considered what China will be flying off of them are domestic copies of a Soviet design from the 1970s. Meanwhile, Japan would use the F-35B, a significant advancement in almost every way.

Oh, and they do not have "two keels laid". In fact, they have no keels laid. The Type 001 is a single class of one ship. The Type 002 is also a single class of one ship. The Type 003 is a single class of one ship. The Type 004 is nowhere even close to starting building. They are planning on building 4 of those, but construction is not even expected to begin for another 5-7 years. They do not even have the power plants for the design finished, and that is not expected for another 3-4 years at a minimum.

Oh, and they are planning on using the J-35 fighter from that craft. As of this date they have not built a single one, not even a prototype. If you think they can crap out a 5th generation naval fighter overnight, I got some prime ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Especially when the J-31 is a navalized variant of the FC-31. That program has built exactly one prototype, which did test flights in 2012 and 2013. The very fact that the single prototype is all they have and it has done little in over a decade should scream how far behind that project is. To give an idea, the first prototypes of the F-35 were operational in 2001, and the first aircraft delivered to the military were in 2006. Five years from prototype to initial delivery. They are now at over 11 years with 0 aircraft delivered (or even close to delivery). China was relying on a lot of the money for that program to come from foreign nations, but everybody has given it a hard pass and they are on their own there.

You see, that is the problem when people try to simply make things up. Especially when they are things that are not hard to check.

So what are the two keels that were laid in the last 8 months with special Slideways ?

 

[Mushroom]

But who has the more brains? Who has the better morale?

Even more important, who has the most experience?

There is a reason why myself and many others generally refer to the PLAN as an "upgunned coast guard". They are not a "blue water navy", almost all of their actual experience is as a "green water navy". They never conduct fleet operations, they have almost no UNREP capability or experience, their ships rarely leave port for more than a month at a time.

The number of ships they have is almost meaningless if they don't have the experience to use them effectively. The US constantly runs fleet operations, keeping a dozen or more ships in a group at sea for months at a time. Even maintaining them for periods of up to a year. And supplying them entirely by sea and air, not relying on returning to the home port to remain in operation. All of that is completely lacking in the PLAN, and if they ever go into combat, it will show.

The term "Chinese fire drill" comes to mind, as that is what it would be like. As ships that never operated together other than single week dog and pony shows are then expected to operate together as a single force. And once they were at sea for any significant amount of time, keeping them supplied will be a serious challenge as they have no real experience at UNREP. That is something the US mastered even before WWII.

Brains and morale to be honest to me are much less important than experience. And for anything other than picking on Philippines and Vietnam, they really don't have any.