Why did so many Germans support Hitler?

[eots]

i thought this might be a good topic of discussion

because propaganda works ...same reason we support the invasion of soverign nations..torture and illegal detainment

 

[JW Frogen]

The fact the victors did not impose their terms after WWI is the reason WWII happened.

The fact that the victors imposed their terms after WWII is the reason WWIII never happened.

 

[editec]

Well, now that you've dried out, we get to see the real you...a Bushie or maybe more of a Cheney...

History's neither one dimensional, nor can it be neatly defined by facts and historical events alone. History is the continuing saga of human existence and human conditions. Those human conditions, good or bad serve to fuel benign or aggressive behaviors. Actual outcomes of events, treaties and policies are determined as much by human perception as they are by fact. The Treaty of Versailles was perceived as very punitive in the eyes of the German people who anticipated Wilson's 14 Points, which was perceived as fair, a way to rebuild their economy, their country, re-enter the world community and retain some dignity. Instead they received Clemenceau's punitive ruler across the knuckles; total blame for the war, and with that total blame; reparations that would have taken until the late 20th century to repay. Add territorial clauses that would later become a rallying cry all combined to create animosity in Germany towards their 'enemies' and toward their own government that signed it.

If we are really going to get into that period of history and try to correlate events and consequences, there are MANY. Post WWI Germany saw a period of political instability. There were many factions vying for power. There was even a 'Red scare' not unlike right wing fear-mongering during our own Cold war. You seem to insinuate there was some pre-Hitler mental inevitability with your comment that Weimar politicians wanting to re-arm. It WAS the Treaty of Versailles that created the pre-Hitler mental inevitability. And it will remain in the annals of history as a leading cause that led to the rise of Hitler and ultimately WWII.

The main difference between the aftermath of WWI and WWII, the Treaty of Versailles was punitive and destructive. The Marshall Plan was not punitive, it was constructive...

These lessons will NEVER be learned by the right wing mind. They will continue to FEEL that punishment is the only way, and when it ultimately fails, it was only because the punishment was not severe enough. And they will continue to blindly follow authoritarian despots like Bush and Cheney that turned a gang of terrorists into an army of thousands.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

Beautiful post, BF, with one minor addendum.

THE LEFT IS NO LESS LIKELY TO BECOME FACISTIC THAN THE RIGHT.

Seriously, do NOT be fooled into thinking otherwise.

Idealogues of every persuasion are a menace to humanity.

Wanna bet editec? Please provide evidence. Because ALL the studies and evidence accumulated over the last 50+ years says your accusation is false. What you are describing is called an authoritarian personality. It is an overwhelmingly conservative trait. It occurs in approximately 1% of the left, and that would be the FAR left...anarchists.

USSR, PRP, North Korea, Cuba

Nuf said?

No?

Here's the thing, BK...totalitarians and authoritarians don't really CARE about ideologies...what they care about is having a pre-packaged answer, and attaining POWER though the application of same.

If that kind of personality is thwarted from getting power thought the right, they're more than willing to climb the authority ladder via the left.=, right center, up down or bottom.

Stalinists, Maoist, Peronists, Francoians, and Hitlerist are all cut from the same bolt of cloth, my friend.

I don't know how many times I've been in the company of my fellow leftist that have truly expected me to apologise for being a White male, but I'd have to say it's pretty much every time I've been involved with them. And that was... oh, I don't know, for about two decades of political activity.

Extreme lefties are as fucked up as these right wing cranks we see on this board, and quite a few of them are just as stupid, too.

They are just as prejudiced, just as clueless and just as anti-humanitarian as any neo-con.

Maybe that hasn't been your experience, (and if not lucky you!) but I can assure you it's been mine, and I have been involved in poltical activities most of my adult life.

The weak minded types who cling to any ideology for direction, rather than taking each circumstance on its face to find its solution, tend to be clueless authoritarians (they seek their authority from their ideology, you see?) regardless of what brand of ideology they happen to be clinging to for guidance.


So my advise is that you don't put you faith in movements (that you don't run) parties (you don't run) or ideologies that are claiming to have THE comprehenive SOLUTION TO EVERTHING.

Joining those limits your freedom to seek solutions appropriate to circumstance, and forces you into the lockstep of a theories that might not make sense for the circumstance.

Ideologists of every persuasion are people who, as far as I have seen, are too fucking lazy or too fucking stupid to think and ACT for or by themselves.

And THAT is the hallmark of the authoritarian mind AND the tools that cleave to them, regardless of what political theory they happen to be ascribing to.

 

[Ringel05]

Define conservatism. WHAT values, teachings, traditions, indoctrinations, orthodoxy would a Lenin want to 'conserve' and protect?

Don't tell me you plan to play some farcical, esoteric, philosophical circle jerk with the term "conservative" to prove Lenin was one. Lenin was a radical with "liberal" ideas as with all the others I mentioned, all of which were battling the conservative, laissez-faire systems they existed in. Each one was, to differing degrees, brutally repressive and each was a liberal in their own right. One side does not hold exclusive license to goodness or evil no matter how much wishing or skewed "science" is applied by either side.

Did Lenin and Stalin want to 'conserve' and protect free market capitalism, western values and traditions?

Your political awareness and assessment is based parochial indoctrination. Something along the lines that water swirls clockwise when you leave the northern hemisphere.

Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.
Me

Okay, that cinches it. You're hopelessly self delusional. In parochial terms: 'you're so full of shit your eyes are brown.' Conservatism and liberalism are not just western constructs. Enjoy your fantasies.

 

[editec]

Conservatism and liberalism are not just western constructs.

As they are being applied in the America political scene, they are not only constructs, they are constucts DESIGNED to mislead the easily mislead.

 

[Ringel05]

Conservatism and liberalism are not just western constructs.

As they are being applied in the America political scene, they are not only constructs, they are constucts DESIGNED to mislead the easily mislead.

Here I disagree. The constructs were not designed to mislead, it's the twisted usage wherein the deception lies.
The true definition of conservatism is Laissez-faire in the sense of 'let it be or leave it as is'. In this sense liberalism, by definition is the opposite. These are the original definitions of the two terms that have been twisted over time to mean what people want them to mean to fit their particular agendas.

 

[Bfgrn]

Beautiful post, BF, with one minor addendum.

THE LEFT IS NO LESS LIKELY TO BECOME FACISTIC THAN THE RIGHT.

Seriously, do NOT be fooled into thinking otherwise.

Idealogues of every persuasion are a menace to humanity.

Wanna bet editec? Please provide evidence. Because ALL the studies and evidence accumulated over the last 50+ years says your accusation is false. What you are describing is called an authoritarian personality. It is an overwhelmingly conservative trait. It occurs in approximately 1% of the left, and that would be the FAR left...anarchists.

USSR, PRP, North Korea, Cuba

Nuf said?

No?

Here's the thing, BK...totalitarians and authoritarians don't really CARE about ideologies...what they care about is having a pre-packaged answer, and attaining POWER though the application of same.

If that kind of personality is thwarted from getting power thought the right, they're more than willing to climb the authority ladder via the left.=, right center, up down or bottom.

Stalinists, Maoist, Peronists, Francoians, and Hitlerist are all cut from the same bolt of cloth, my friend.

I don't know how many times I've been in the company of my fellow leftist that have truly expected me to apologise for being a White male, but I'd have to say it's pretty much every time I've been involved with them. And that was... oh, I don't know, for about two decades of political activity.

Extreme lefties are as fucked up as these right wing cranks we see on this board, and quite a few of them are just as stupid, too.

They are just as prejudiced, just as clueless and just as anti-humanitarian as any neo-con.

Maybe that hasn't been your experience, (and if not lucky you!) but I can assure you it's been mine, and I have been involved in poltical activities most of my adult life.

The weak minded types who cling to any ideology for direction, rather than taking each circumstance on its face to find its solution, tend to be clueless authoritarians (they seek their authority from their ideology, you see?) regardless of what brand of ideology they happen to be clinging to for guidance.


So my advise is that you don't put you faith in movements (that you don't run) parties (you don't run) or ideologies that are claiming to have THE comprehenive SOLUTION TO EVERTHING.

Joining those limits your freedom to seek solutions appropriate to circumstance, and forces you into the lockstep of a theories that might not make sense for the circumstance.

Ideologists of every persuasion are people who, as far as I have seen, are too fucking lazy or too fucking stupid to think and ACT for or by themselves.

And THAT is the hallmark of the authoritarian mind AND the tools that cleave to them, regardless of what political theory they happen to be ascribing to.

You clearly don't understand what conservatism IS in another culture and country.

Can you understand the concept of parochial indoctrination? That Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth? Let's take Joseph Stalin. He was born, raised, educated (indoctrinated) and exposed his whole life to THAT culture's doctrines, traditions, values and orthodoxy. Stalin attended Georgian Orthodox seminary. What HE wants to 'conserve' and protect has NO relation to, and is diametrically opposed to western values. His conservatism is based on a totally different set of doctrines, traditions, values and orthodoxy. BTW, Russia and North Korea are extremely conservative cultures...

Here's are example...

A Tea Party of Stalinists

 

[PatekPhilippe]

The fact the victors did not impose their terms after WWI is the reason WWII happened.

The fact that the victors imposed their terms after WWII is the reason WWIII never happened.

Disagree. WW3 never happened because of the MAD doctrine. The United Nations was formed to specifically prevent future World Wars by letting smaller, regional wars take place and when they got outta hand then UN peacekeepers stepped in.

 

[Ringel05]

Wanna bet editec? Please provide evidence. Because ALL the studies and evidence accumulated over the last 50+ years says your accusation is false. What you are describing is called an authoritarian personality. It is an overwhelmingly conservative trait. It occurs in approximately 1% of the left, and that would be the FAR left...anarchists.

USSR, PRP, North Korea, Cuba

Nuf said?

No?

Here's the thing, BK...totalitarians and authoritarians don't really CARE about ideologies...what they care about is having a pre-packaged answer, and attaining POWER though the application of same.

If that kind of personality is thwarted from getting power thought the right, they're more than willing to climb the authority ladder via the left.=, right center, up down or bottom.

Stalinists, Maoist, Peronists, Francoians, and Hitlerist are all cut from the same bolt of cloth, my friend.

I don't know how many times I've been in the company of my fellow leftist that have truly expected me to apologise for being a White male, but I'd have to say it's pretty much every time I've been involved with them. And that was... oh, I don't know, for about two decades of political activity.

Extreme lefties are as fucked up as these right wing cranks we see on this board, and quite a few of them are just as stupid, too.

They are just as prejudiced, just as clueless and just as anti-humanitarian as any neo-con.

Maybe that hasn't been your experience, (and if not lucky you!) but I can assure you it's been mine, and I have been involved in poltical activities most of my adult life.

The weak minded types who cling to any ideology for direction, rather than taking each circumstance on its face to find its solution, tend to be clueless authoritarians (they seek their authority from their ideology, you see?) regardless of what brand of ideology they happen to be clinging to for guidance.


So my advise is that you don't put you faith in movements (that you don't run) parties (you don't run) or ideologies that are claiming to have THE comprehenive SOLUTION TO EVERTHING.

Joining those limits your freedom to seek solutions appropriate to circumstance, and forces you into the lockstep of a theories that might not make sense for the circumstance.

Ideologists of every persuasion are people who, as far as I have seen, are too fucking lazy or too fucking stupid to think and ACT for or by themselves.

And THAT is the hallmark of the authoritarian mind AND the tools that cleave to them, regardless of what political theory they happen to be ascribing to.

You clearly don't understand what conservatism IS in another culture and country.

Can you understand the concept of parochial indoctrination? That Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth? Let's take Joseph Stalin. He was born, raised, educated (indoctrinated) and exposed his whole life to THAT culture's doctrines, traditions, values and orthodoxy. Stalin attended Georgian Orthodox seminary. What HE wants to 'conserve' and protect has NO relation to, and is diametrically opposed to western values. His conservatism is based on a totally different set of doctrines, traditions, values and orthodoxy. BTW, Russia and North Korea are extremely conservative cultures...

Here's are example...

A Tea Party of Stalinists

You are neglecting the historical context. Yes, Communist Russia and North Korean government systems are conservative due to the fact of their established organization over a long period of time. Modern Russia, China and early North Korean governments were/are the representative radical change from the local norm hence, liberal in nature.

 

[topspin]

because they hate jews?

 

[Bfgrn]

I understand it's would be whether hard to part of a system that hitler chose to be in. But that is the price to pay for being a socialist.
This is hitlers book you don't like to bad. Philosophy and party deal with it.

Do you have ANY clue what Hitler is saying in this chapter? He is trashing the German Workers' Party. He loathes them, calls them philistines. (barbarian, boob, brute, buffoon, cad, chuff, churl, dork, goon, lout, oaf, peasant, rube, vulgarian, yahoo)

Hitler ends up joining because he wants to take it over.

I suggest you READ the whole chapter, and if you don't understand it, find someone to explain it to you.

If he's trashing them why did he join them card carrier number 7 or did you miss that part?
......After two days of agonized pondering and reflection, I finally came to the conviction that I had to take this step.
It was the most decisive resolve of my life. From here there was and could be no turning back.
And so I registered as a member of the German Workers' Party and received a provisional membership card with the number 7
So who needs the help in having it explained to them?

My God bigrebnc, why don't you READ what Hitler says, instead of continuing to make a total ass out of yourself. It is not someone's interpretation of Hitler's beliefs, it IS Hitler's beliefs.

He TELLS you that he didn't join because he embraced ANY of their beliefs...he calls their beliefs " their absurd philistinism" (absurd barbarism), he says the people in the room are "chiefly from the lower classes of the population'. He says they spewed "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases; hence also the title" (hence the title German Workers' Party)

He brags how he couldn't sit and listen to one of them talk about "peace...and more similar nonsense. At this point I could not help demanding the floor and giving the learned gentleman my opinion on this point-with the result that the previous speaker, even before I was finished, left the hall like a wet poodle."

He describes the reaction he got from the gathering: "As I spoke, the audience had listened with astonished faces, and only as I was beginning to say good night to the assemblage and go away did a man come leaping after me, introduce himself (I had not quite understood his name), and press a little booklet into my hand, apparently a political pamphlet, with the urgent request that I read it."

That "political pamphlet" leads us to YOUR first out of context misinterpretation. Hitler says "It was a little pamphlet in which the author, this same worker, described how he had returned to national thinking" (NATIONALISM)...NOT "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases".

Hitler TELLS you when he received a postcard saying he had been accepted in the German Workers' Party: "I didn't know whether to be angry or to laugh. I had no intention of joining a ready-made party, but wanted to found one of my own. What they asked of me was presumptuous and out of the question."

If you continue to READ on, you will see him go through a process of self rationalization: although he wanted to "found a party of his own", he would never be accepted by a major party because they would look down on him for his "lack of schooling". He rationalizes that he wouldn't really want to be accepted because they were the "'intelligentsia'...these 'educated' people the biggest empty-head, if he is wrapped in enough diplomas, is worth more than the brightest boy who happens to lick these costly envelopes. And so it was easy for me to imagine how this ' educated ' world would confront me"

SO, he confronts the reality of how to start his OWN party...he can't take over a major party of elites and he didn't have any people for his own party.

SO...Hitler decides the best way to HAVE his own party is to start it by enlisting these barbarians, the German Workers' Party. "Even then I had an instinctive revulsion toward men who start everything and never carry anything out These jacks-of-all-trades were loathsome to me. I regarded the activity of such people as worse than doing nothing."

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Since Progressives tend to believe their own bullshit, here a little handy chart showing ideology and control

Left Wing Ideology
Progressivism, Marxist, Liberalism
Fascism, Communism, Socialism
State Control

Right Wing Ideology
Libertarianism, Conservatism
People Control

Moderate Ideology
I can't decide if I want fries or onion rings

 

[Bfgrn]

Since Progressives tend to believe their own bullshit, here a little handy chart showing ideology and control

Left Wing Ideology
Progressivism, Marxist, Liberalism
Fascism, Communism, Socialism
State Control

Right Wing Ideology
Libertarianism, Conservatism
People Control

Moderate Ideology
I can't decide if I want fries or onion rings

Frank, you are the most delusional moron I've ever encountered. 'People control' is PURE socialism. Socialism = more people (preferably everyone) have some say in how the society, country and government are run.

Conservatism is NOT based on 'people control', it is based on hierarchy control. The goals of conservatism throughout history is the domination of society by an aristocracy. The only thing that has changed is WHO represents that hierarchy and aristocracy.

Conservatism: I can't decide if I want fries AND onion rings

In America from 2000- 2008, the hierarchy and aristocracy conservatives embraced included corporations, CEO's, the captains of industry and the government.

In America today, the hierarchy and aristocracy conservatives embrace includes corporations, CEO's, the captains of industry...with NO government (hold the onion rings)

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Since Progressives tend to believe their own bullshit, here a little handy chart showing ideology and control

Left Wing Ideology
Progressivism, Marxist, Liberalism
Fascism, Communism, Socialism
State Control

Right Wing Ideology
Libertarianism, Conservatism
People Control

Moderate Ideology
I can't decide if I want fries or onion rings

Where does the "Ive been duped...it's all his fault" ideology fit in?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Do you have ANY clue what Hitler is saying in this chapter? He is trashing the German Workers' Party. He loathes them, calls them philistines. (barbarian, boob, brute, buffoon, cad, chuff, churl, dork, goon, lout, oaf, peasant, rube, vulgarian, yahoo)

Hitler ends up joining because he wants to take it over.

I suggest you READ the whole chapter, and if you don't understand it, find someone to explain it to you.

If he's trashing them why did he join them card carrier number 7 or did you miss that part?
......After two days of agonized pondering and reflection, I finally came to the conviction that I had to take this step.
It was the most decisive resolve of my life. From here there was and could be no turning back.
And so I registered as a member of the German Workers' Party and received a provisional membership card with the number 7
So who needs the help in having it explained to them?

My God bigrebnc, why don't you READ what Hitler says, instead of continuing to make a total ass out of yourself. It is not someone's interpretation of Hitler's beliefs, it IS Hitler's beliefs.

He TELLS you that he didn't join because he embraced ANY of their beliefs...he calls their beliefs " their absurd philistinism" (absurd barbarism), he says the people in the room are "chiefly from the lower classes of the population'. He says they spewed "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases; hence also the title" (hence the title German Workers' Party)

He brags how he couldn't sit and listen to one of them talk about "peace...and more similar nonsense. At this point I could not help demanding the floor and giving the learned gentleman my opinion on this point-with the result that the previous speaker, even before I was finished, left the hall like a wet poodle."

He describes the reaction he got from the gathering: "As I spoke, the audience had listened with astonished faces, and only as I was beginning to say good night to the assemblage and go away did a man come leaping after me, introduce himself (I had not quite understood his name), and press a little booklet into my hand, apparently a political pamphlet, with the urgent request that I read it."

That "political pamphlet" leads us to YOUR first out of context misinterpretation. Hitler says "It was a little pamphlet in which the author, this same worker, described how he had returned to national thinking" (NATIONALISM)...NOT "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases".

Hitler TELLS you when he received a postcard saying he had been accepted in the German Workers' Party: "I didn't know whether to be angry or to laugh. I had no intention of joining a ready-made party, but wanted to found one of my own. What they asked of me was presumptuous and out of the question."

If you continue to READ on, you will see him go through a process of self rationalization: although he wanted to "found a party of his own", he would never be accepted by a major party because they would look down on him for his "lack of schooling". He rationalizes that he wouldn't really want to be accepted because they were the "'intelligentsia'...these 'educated' people the biggest empty-head, if he is wrapped in enough diplomas, is worth more than the brightest boy who happens to lick these costly envelopes. And so it was easy for me to imagine how this ' educated ' world would confront me"

SO, he confronts the reality of how to start his OWN party...he can't take over a major party of elites and he didn't have any people for his own party.

SO...Hitler decides the best way to HAVE his own party is to start it by enlisting these barbarians, the German Workers' Party. "Even then I had an instinctive revulsion toward men who start everything and never carry anything out These jacks-of-all-trades were loathsome to me. I regarded the activity of such people as worse than doing nothing."

What in the hell was hitler card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, hitler joined because he wanted to take over the workes socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be as me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party.

 

[L.K.Eder]

you can even join the dap without knowing it, like hitler. his number was 55 alphabetically. to sound bigger than they were, they started numbering with 501.

so hitler's card number of the dap was 555.

 

[westwall]

If he's trashing them why did he join them card carrier number 7 or did you miss that part?
......After two days of agonized pondering and reflection, I finally came to the conviction that I had to take this step.
It was the most decisive resolve of my life. From here there was and could be no turning back.
And so I registered as a member of the German Workers' Party and received a provisional membership card with the number 7
So who needs the help in having it explained to them?

My God bigrebnc, why don't you READ what Hitler says, instead of continuing to make a total ass out of yourself. It is not someone's interpretation of Hitler's beliefs, it IS Hitler's beliefs.

He TELLS you that he didn't join because he embraced ANY of their beliefs...he calls their beliefs " their absurd philistinism" (absurd barbarism), he says the people in the room are "chiefly from the lower classes of the population'. He says they spewed "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases; hence also the title" (hence the title German Workers' Party)

He brags how he couldn't sit and listen to one of them talk about "peace...and more similar nonsense. At this point I could not help demanding the floor and giving the learned gentleman my opinion on this point-with the result that the previous speaker, even before I was finished, left the hall like a wet poodle."

He describes the reaction he got from the gathering: "As I spoke, the audience had listened with astonished faces, and only as I was beginning to say good night to the assemblage and go away did a man come leaping after me, introduce himself (I had not quite understood his name), and press a little booklet into my hand, apparently a political pamphlet, with the urgent request that I read it."

That "political pamphlet" leads us to YOUR first out of context misinterpretation. Hitler says "It was a little pamphlet in which the author, this same worker, described how he had returned to national thinking" (NATIONALISM)...NOT "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases".

Hitler TELLS you when he received a postcard saying he had been accepted in the German Workers' Party: "I didn't know whether to be angry or to laugh. I had no intention of joining a ready-made party, but wanted to found one of my own. What they asked of me was presumptuous and out of the question."

If you continue to READ on, you will see him go through a process of self rationalization: although he wanted to "found a party of his own", he would never be accepted by a major party because they would look down on him for his "lack of schooling". He rationalizes that he wouldn't really want to be accepted because they were the "'intelligentsia'...these 'educated' people the biggest empty-head, if he is wrapped in enough diplomas, is worth more than the brightest boy who happens to lick these costly envelopes. And so it was easy for me to imagine how this ' educated ' world would confront me"

SO, he confronts the reality of how to start his OWN party...he can't take over a major party of elites and he didn't have any people for his own party.

SO...Hitler decides the best way to HAVE his own party is to start it by enlisting these barbarians, the German Workers' Party. "Even then I had an instinctive revulsion toward men who start everything and never carry anything out These jacks-of-all-trades were loathsome to me. I regarded the activity of such people as worse than doing nothing."

What in the hell was hitler card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, hitler joined because he wanted to take over the workes socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be as me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party.

I fear Bfgrn has been talked at a lot, and told what to think but I doubt he has done much serious reading on the subject. As evidenced by the above post.

 

[germanguy]

Funny how a debate about german history easily gets the furor into you Yanks.

What most here do is to view at this question while only seeing your own agenda.

The Germans did not support Hitler-
In 1933 he came to power as head of a multi-party coalition, brought to office by the far-right, a half-senile President (who definitely was not a friend of the republic, but notwithstanding took his oath to the constitution serious).

He certainly had a mandate in 1933 to end partisanship, economic crisis and the fear of bolshevism.
That he had a mandate to start a war, to lay Europe in ruins and to kill more than 50 million people was not the case. The end of 1945 was not easily foreseen in 1933.

And:

Hitler was no socialist. All this crap about Obama as a Nazi or Socialism equals Nazism is not getting the point.

As Goebbels once stated:

We do not want low bread prices, we do not want high bread prices, we want National Socialist bread prices.

The Nazis mostly gave a shit about ideology.
How to get Himmlers germanic mystizism, with his believe in astrology, Hitlers religious belief in Wagner etc. into one ideology ?
Just tell everybody what he wants to hear.

Interestingly, if you look at the respective ideological groups, the Nazis in general did not succeed with their ideology.
To the conservatives, especially the old-fashioned ones, Hitler was just an upstart, a corporal in the War.
To a lot of workers the Nazis were no Socialists. There were enough workers quarters in Germany, where being out azt night in a Party uniform was a very stupid idea.
So, with the proclaimed best supporters of the Nazis, the far right and the Socialists, Hitlers "ideology" did not work.

So, did the Germans support him ? All and in every aspect ? I really doubt it.

regards
ze germanguy

 

[L.K.Eder]

My God bigrebnc, why don't you READ what Hitler says, instead of continuing to make a total ass out of yourself. It is not someone's interpretation of Hitler's beliefs, it IS Hitler's beliefs.

He TELLS you that he didn't join because he embraced ANY of their beliefs...he calls their beliefs " their absurd philistinism" (absurd barbarism), he says the people in the room are "chiefly from the lower classes of the population'. He says they spewed "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases; hence also the title" (hence the title German Workers' Party)

He brags how he couldn't sit and listen to one of them talk about "peace...and more similar nonsense. At this point I could not help demanding the floor and giving the learned gentleman my opinion on this point-with the result that the previous speaker, even before I was finished, left the hall like a wet poodle."

He describes the reaction he got from the gathering: "As I spoke, the audience had listened with astonished faces, and only as I was beginning to say good night to the assemblage and go away did a man come leaping after me, introduce himself (I had not quite understood his name), and press a little booklet into my hand, apparently a political pamphlet, with the urgent request that I read it."

That "political pamphlet" leads us to YOUR first out of context misinterpretation. Hitler says "It was a little pamphlet in which the author, this same worker, described how he had returned to national thinking" (NATIONALISM)...NOT "the Babel (noise and confusion) of Marxist and trade-unionist phrases".

Hitler TELLS you when he received a postcard saying he had been accepted in the German Workers' Party: "I didn't know whether to be angry or to laugh. I had no intention of joining a ready-made party, but wanted to found one of my own. What they asked of me was presumptuous and out of the question."

If you continue to READ on, you will see him go through a process of self rationalization: although he wanted to "found a party of his own", he would never be accepted by a major party because they would look down on him for his "lack of schooling". He rationalizes that he wouldn't really want to be accepted because they were the "'intelligentsia'...these 'educated' people the biggest empty-head, if he is wrapped in enough diplomas, is worth more than the brightest boy who happens to lick these costly envelopes. And so it was easy for me to imagine how this ' educated ' world would confront me"

SO, he confronts the reality of how to start his OWN party...he can't take over a major party of elites and he didn't have any people for his own party.

SO...Hitler decides the best way to HAVE his own party is to start it by enlisting these barbarians, the German Workers' Party. "Even then I had an instinctive revulsion toward men who start everything and never carry anything out These jacks-of-all-trades were loathsome to me. I regarded the activity of such people as worse than doing nothing."

What in the hell was hitler card number? Do you realize just how stupid you sound, hitler joined because he wanted to take over the workes socialist party? You don't join a group of people you don't like. That would be as me saying I am going to become a liberal democrat to take over the party.

I fear Bfgrn has been talked at a lot, and told what to think but I doubt he has done much serious reading on the subject. As evidenced by the above post.

i did mucho serious reading on the subject. bfgrn has it dead right, and you and fatboyrebel et al are seriously out of sync with reality and history.

 

[José]

Why did so many Germans support Hitler?

Why do so many Americans believe the jewish racial dictatorship is in fact a democracy?

Massive propaganda bombardment.