Why Did The Space Age Die?

[Mushroom]

How are those "weapons of mass destruction"?

Ahhh, I see another nutcase has entered the conversation.

What, are one that believes that a megaton plus weapon does not qualify, simply because it uses kinetic energy and not nuclear to do the damage?

Here is the truth, a great many things are by definition "Weapons of Mass Destruction". Even weapon systems themselves regardless of the warhead placed upon them.

I guess you are one of the fanatical ROG believers. Sorry, can't help you, what you are saying is in contradiction of treaties.

Thank you, have a good day.

 

[BackAgain]

To the extent that The View previously claimed that the space age failed due to Astro or anything Astro ever said or did, I want to apologize to all concerned. We at The View certainly did not mean what we said. Sometimes we at The View have absolutely no clue about what we say or that anything we say might he be misconstrued as having any meaning whatsoever.

Back on topic, the space age is continuing apace. We expect to be taking humans to Mars within a decade or so, in fact.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Ahhh, I see another nutcase has entered the conversation.

What, are one that believes that a megaton plus weapon does not qualify, simply because it uses kinetic energy and not nuclear to do the damage?

Here is the truth, a great many things are by definition "Weapons of Mass Destruction". Even weapon systems themselves regardless of the warhead placed upon them.

I guess you are one of the fanatical ROG believers. Sorry, can't help you, what you are saying is in contradiction of treaties.

Thank you, have a good day.

What, are one that believes that a megaton plus weapon does not qualify, simply because it uses kinetic energy and not nuclear to do the damage?

How heavy would one of those have to be to release the same energy as a million tons of TNT?

 

[Mushroom]

What, are one that believes that a megaton plus weapon does not qualify, simply because it uses kinetic energy and not nuclear to do the damage?

How heavy would one of those have to be to release the same energy as a million tons of TNT?

weapon of mass destruction (WMD), weapon with the capacity to inflict death and destruction on such a massive scale and so indiscriminately that its very presence in the hands of a hostile power can be considered a grievous threat.

The term weapons of mass destruction has been in currency since at least 1937, when it was used to describe massed formations of bomber aircraft. At that time these high-flying battleships of the air seemed to pose an unstoppable threat to civilian centres located far from any war front—as indeed they did during World War II (1939–45), notably in the firebombings of such cities as Hamburg, Germany, and Tokyo, Japan, when tens of thousands of civilians died in a single night.

Weapon of mass destruction (WMD) | Definition, Types, History, & Facts

Weapon of mass destruction (WMD), weapon with the capacity to inflict death and destruction on such a massive scale and so indiscriminately that its very presence in the hands of a hostile power can be considered a grievous threat. Modern weapons of mass destruction are either nuclear, biological,

www.britannica.com

Notice, since 1938. Before Atomic Weapons were more than a theory.

What, you think kinetic weapons are excluded for some reason?

Stop playing stupid word games, answer simply ,yes or no. Are somehow kinetic weapons excluded? Please show me a single treaty that made such a declaration.

But thank you, Nice to see that the ROG fanatics are still around and you have not all gotten brain cancer thanks to your tinfoil hats.

 

[sparky]

I doubt we humans have ever cared for "mutual goals as a race".

Apollo 13 >>>>

The rescue received more public attention than any spaceflight to that point, other than the first Moon landing on Apollo 11. There were worldwide headlines, and people surrounded television sets to get the latest developments, offered by networks who interrupted their regular programming for bulletins. Pope Paul VI led a congregation of 10,000 people in praying for the astronauts' safe return; ten times that number offered prayers at a religious festival in India.[150] The United States Senate on April 14 passed a resolution urging businesses to pause at 9:00 pm local time that evening to allow for employee prayer.[148]

An estimated 40 million Americans watched Apollo 13's splashdown, carried live on all three networks, with another 30 million watching some portion of the six and one-half hour telecast. Even more outside the U.S. watched. Jack Gould of The New York Times stated that Apollo 13, "which came so close to tragic disaster, in all probability united the world in mutual concern more fully than another successful landing on the Moon would have".

Apollo 13 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

~S~

 

[fncceo]

Back on topic, the space age is continuing apace. We expect to be taking humans to Mars within a decade or so, in fact.

Actually, we aren't. The only rocket the US has remotely capable of taking components of a Mars mission even as far as Lunar Orbit is the The Space Launch System (SLS). Ready for testing since 2015, there hasn't been a single successful test of the vehicle since that time. They haven't even attempted to fly it unmanned. The Orion capsule, designed to take a crew of 3 back to The Moon has only been orbited (unmanned) once and that was back in 2014. There are no Mars capable vehicles even in prototype phase. Without the incentive of another space race, there is no way a mission could be put together in just 7 years.

A lot of claims have been made about how new technology has lowered lift cost but those claims are fictional. Excluding development costs, the cost per launch of a Saturn V (in current US dollars) was $1.23 Billion. The cost of a single SLS launch (again, excluding development) is over 2 Billion a launch -- with 15% less payload per launch.

Space X is in no better shape. The much heralded Falcon Heavy has ONLY HALF the payload capacity of the 1960's Saturn V. The proposed "Starship" rocket, the vehicle that Space X claims is their Mars vehicle, has only 2/3rds the lift to LEO capacity of the Saturn V. Space X has no Mars capable manned space craft even in prototype.

There is a much larger problem for Space X as a private company. There is no profit to be had by landing people on The Moon or Mars. Until there is, there is no way Space X will be able to obtain the Trillion or so dollars in investment it will have to have to get there.

The race to The Moon took just 9 years of serious development, with the full backing of Congress and the American public. In our current environment, it will take more than 9 years just to decide which pronouns to use for astronauts.

Hard reality time, it will be a century, or longer, for Americans to meaningfully attempt to go back to The Moon, another century or more to Mars.

It brings me no pleasure to say this. As some one who came of age in the height of The Space Race, to see it abandoned so callously and replaced by sci-fi movies like "Star Wars" was incredibly painful. I still held out hope when Space Shuttles came on line and promised to rejuvenate our country's return to space. The get people's hopes up again only to disappoint us again is borderline cruel.

 

[fncceo]

Apollo 13 >>>>

The rescue received more public attention than any spaceflight to that point, other than the first Moon landing on Apollo 11. There were worldwide headlines, and people surrounded television sets to get the latest developments, offered by networks who interrupted their regular programming for bulletins. Pope Paul VI led a congregation of 10,000 people in praying for the astronauts' safe return; ten times that number offered prayers at a religious festival in India.[150] The United States Senate on April 14 passed a resolution urging businesses to pause at 9:00 pm local time that evening to allow for employee prayer.[148]

An estimated 40 million Americans watched Apollo 13's splashdown, carried live on all three networks, with another 30 million watching some portion of the six and one-half hour telecast. Even more outside the U.S. watched. Jack Gould of The New York Times stated that Apollo 13, "which came so close to tragic disaster, in all probability united the world in mutual concern more fully than another successful landing on the Moon would have".

Apollo 13 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 675398
~S~

When ABC broke into it's regularly scheduled program of a "Batman" re-run (the program was cancelled two-years earlier in 1968) to report on the Apollo 13 emergence, a MILLION people called ABC and their affiliate stations to complain.

 

[BackAgain]

Actually, we aren't. The only rocket the US has remotely capable of taking components of a Mars mission even as far as Lunar Orbit is the The Space Launch System (SLS). Ready for testing since 2015, there hasn't been a single successful test of the vehicle since that time. They haven't even attempted to fly it unmanned. The Orion capsule, designed to take a crew of 3 back to The Moon has only been orbited (unmanned) once and that was back in 2014. There are no Mars capable vehicles even in prototype phase. Without the incentive of another space race, there is no way a mission could be put together in just 7 years.

A lot of claims have been made about how new technology has lowered lift cost but those claims are fictional. Excluding development costs, the cost per launch of a Saturn V (in current US dollars) was $1.23 Billion. The cost of a single SLS launch (again, excluding development) is over 2 Billion a launch -- with 15% less payload per launch.

Space X is in no better shape. The much heralded Falcon Heavy has ONLY HALF the payload capacity of the 1960's Saturn V. The proposed "Starship" rocket, the vehicle that Space X claims is their Mars vehicle, has only 2/3rds the lift to LEO capacity of the Saturn V. Space X has no Mars capable manned space craft even in prototype.

There is a much larger problem for Space X as a private company. There is no profit to be had by landing people on The Moon or Mars. Until there is, there is no way Space X will be able to obtain the Trillion or so dollars in investment it will have to have to get there.

The race to The Moon took just 9 years of serious development, with the full backing of Congress and the American public. In our current environment, it will take more than 9 years just to decide which pronouns to use for astronauts.

Hard reality time, it will be a century, or longer, for Americans to meaningfully attempt to go back to The Moon, another century or more to Mars.

It brings me no pleasure to say this. As some one who came of age in the height of The Space Race, to see it abandoned so callously and replaced by sci-fi movies like "Star Wars" was incredibly painful. I still held out hope when Space Shuttles came on line and promised to rejuvenate our country's return to space. The get people's hopes up again only to disappoint us again is borderline cruel.

View attachment 675400

Zzz. Actually, nothing you just posted amounts to a validly premised email of what I posted.

 

[fncceo]

Zzz. Actually, nothing you just posted amounts to a validly premised email of what I posted.

I think it showed, pretty conclusively, that we -- either NASA or Space X -- aren't going to Mars in the next decade, or the decade after that.

 

[BackAgain]

I think it showed, pretty conclusively, that we -- either NASA or Space X -- aren't going to Mars in the next decade, or the decade after that.

Maybe. Maybe not. Times change.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Weapon of mass destruction (WMD) | Definition, Types, History, & Facts

Weapon of mass destruction (WMD), weapon with the capacity to inflict death and destruction on such a massive scale and so indiscriminately that its very presence in the hands of a hostile power can be considered a grievous threat. Modern weapons of mass destruction are either nuclear, biological,

www.britannica.com

Notice, since 1938. Before Atomic Weapons were more than a theory.

What, you think kinetic weapons are excluded for some reason?

Stop playing stupid word games, answer simply ,yes or no. Are somehow kinetic weapons excluded? Please show me a single treaty that made such a declaration.

But thank you, Nice to see that the ROG fanatics are still around and you have not all gotten brain cancer thanks to your tinfoil hats.

Cool story.......

How heavy would one of those have to be to release the same energy as a million tons of TNT?

 

[Mushroom]

How heavy would one of those have to be to release the same energy as a million tons of TNT?

And here you are, playing semantics. Enjoy your solitary game, ain't playing.

Trying to get into discussions with the ROG nuts is about as practical as any others in the CT areas in here.

If you want that discussion, why not head down to the CT area? There are a lot of people that love to talk about it ad nauseum.

 

[westwall]

I don't think the world has ever collectively experienced any event (at least not a positive one) as they did the 1960's Space Race.

Americans and The Soviets peacefully duking it out to be first in as many new achievements as they could, with The Soviets starting out in a commanding lead.

Nothing caught the public imagination (not just in America and Russia, but globally) than our race to get into space.


A combination of politics and competing priorities hobbled the American Space Program for the first few years, but Kennedy gave our program purpose and we put our collective national energies behind a program to land men on The Moon.

However, The Soviets essentially conceded the Space Race a couple of years before the Apollo landing and with no goals after landing on The Moon, the public very quickly lost interest in space except as a setting for adventure dramas.

We have made many very important technological achievements in the decades since. Many of which could never have been dreamed of by even the most forward looking dreamers of the 1960s and '70s. But, space, as a destination for humans, is all but abandoned by The Human Race.

I can see the end of The Space Race a turning point in our country as well. We quickly voltefaced from an optimistic people, eager for a better, grander future, to a nihilistic, pessimistic people who seem to long for dystopia.

Why did it die so quickly and completely? Will humans ever again think about going into space outside of a movie theater?

If we did, what would be the reason(s) for it?

Because it was the one endeavor that advanced technology at a prodigious rate, without intentional bloodshed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And here you are, playing semantics. Enjoy your solitary game, ain't playing.

Trying to get into discussions with the ROG nuts is about as practical as any others in the CT areas in here.

If you want that discussion, why not head down to the CT area? There are a lot of people that love to talk about it ad nauseum.

Trying to get into discussions with the ROG nuts is about as practical as any others in the CT areas in here.

You said they're a weapon of mass destruction.

Post your proof.

You said they were a megaton plus weapon.

Show your math.

Why am I an ROG nut? I asked you a question, you're running away without answering.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If you've never seen the movie "October Sky" -- and you're interested in how the plan to get into space motivated the entire country -- you gotta watch this.


Having done a 9 month stint at Kennedy Space Center, one of the reasons we're sucking wind on space and thumbing rides with Russians to even get to the space station is that NASA doesn't GET US into space. Corporate America -- gets us into space. My NASA counterparts there in HQ building were Program Managers. I was researching necessary tech for them to write specifications or to let contracts. I was lied to when I asked "what kind of equipment and labs they had to do science/engineering -- hence the short 9 months. Although I had a couple high points.

I dont think corporate tech is FLEXIBLE enough anymore to BECOME a "space exploration" design team. THey have NARROWED their focus on profits, and trimmed their interests. They value MBAs and lobbyists MORE than scientists and engineers with BROAD background and education.

Hence -- NASA is now a "rent a pad" facility for renegade entrepreneurs that WILL hire the "right stuff" and WILL have their OWN interests as to why these rich bold guys with FU money want to go to space. NASA is more into "Diversity Equity Inclusion" and helping to redefine the English language these days.

You never heard of SpaceX? SpaceX is under contract to NASA.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We had an inspiring visionary President in John Kennedy who demanded that Americans be the best. He understood hard work, discipline and dedication leads to great things. Lee Oswald killed the Space Race and ushered in the dark ages by changing the Democratic Party from the JFK Democrats to the LBJ Democrats.

Your ignorance of history is bewildering? LBJ killed the space program?

 

[westwall]

@fncceo

Weapon of mass destruction (WMD) | Definition, Types, History, & Facts

Weapon of mass destruction (WMD), weapon with the capacity to inflict death and destruction on such a massive scale and so indiscriminately that its very presence in the hands of a hostile power can be considered a grievous threat. Modern weapons of mass destruction are either nuclear, biological,

www.britannica.com

Notice, since 1938. Before Atomic Weapons were more than a theory.

What, you think kinetic weapons are excluded for some reason?

Stop playing stupid word games, answer simply ,yes or no. Are somehow kinetic weapons excluded? Please show me a single treaty that made such a declaration.

But thank you, Nice to see that the ROG fanatics are still around and you have not all gotten brain cancer thanks to your tinfoil hats.

I think the point he is making is there is no way a ROG could have been lofted into orbit in the first place.

The amount of mass needed to generate that sort of kinetic energy is beyond man's ability to place in orbit.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You never heard of SpaceX? SpaceX is under contract to NASA, just like Grumman, Lockheed and other contractors.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

@fncceo



I think the point he is making is there is no way a ROG could have been lofted into orbit in the first place.

The amount of mass needed to generate that sort of kinetic energy is beyond man's ability to place in orbit.

My point is they aren't a weapon of mass-destruction and they're far from megaton range weapons.

 

[westwall]

My point is they aren't a weapon of mass-destruction and they're far from megaton range weapons.

Yes, I know that. If they were a KE weapon, traveling at orbital velocity with a mass of 100,000 kilos, you could get a megaton detonation on impact.

But, seeing as how they aren't (even if the existed) the entire subject is moot.