Why Did The Space Age Die?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My point is they aren't a weapon of mass-destruction and they're far from megaton range weapons.

For us ignorant people, what the fudge is an ROG?

 

[westwall]

For us ignorant people, what the fudge is an ROG?

"Rod of God" A kinetic energy weapon that conspiracy nuts believe were placed into orbit for use in the next world war.

 

[Synthaholic]

'Disagree' all you want westwall. Until you can counter what I've already proven you're just pissing in the wind, loser.

 

[Mushroom]

I think the point he is making is there is no way a ROG could have been lofted into orbit in the first place.

The amount of mass needed to generate that sort of kinetic energy is beyond man's ability to place in orbit.

And in this I completely agree.

I have done the mass calculations in the past, yet they all scream that they are real. And that alternately either the US or USSR put actual ROG weapons in orbit sometime from the 1960s to 1980s, and they are still in orbit to this day. Completely undetected, yet the other government knows about it and keeps quiet about them for... some reason.

And yes, most tend to use the claim that they are the size of a telephone pole, and I have seen damage estimates range from 25kt to over 1mt.

Myself, I think they are not real, and yet another case of mental illness trying to spread to others. But no, talk to any ROG fanboi in here, and you will find they are almost all convinced it is not only real, it is in orbit right now.

You know, because the truth is out there. Or, something...

 

[Mushroom]

My point is they aren't a weapon of mass-destruction and they're far from megaton range weapons.

WMDs do not need to be in the megaton range. Just a few kilotons is enough. In fact, they do not even need to do that, a missile alone with no warhead can be a WMD.

Thank you for playing, please keep looking though. Because the truth is still out there, somewhere.

 

[Mushroom]

For us ignorant people, what the fudge is an ROG?

Tinfoil hat nonsense. Generally pseudoscience wrapped around a cloak of conspiracy theory. Which the nutcases that have wet dreams thinking about it become absolutely rabid any time the very concept is mocked.

In fact, a great way to detect an absolute garbage fake news site is to put in something like "Rod of God" or "Project Thor" into them and see what they have on it.

Here is one I have seen them use before:

the U.S. Air Force is reportedly considering the deployment of a highly sophisticated new weapons systems in space, which is currently under development under ‘Project Thor.’

Project Thor will see telephone pole sized tungsten rods, 20 feet long and 1 foot in diameter, dropped from American satellites to strike hardened bunkers and underground nuclear complexes. These rods will not carry warheads, but will strike at approximately to 10 times the speed of sound allowing them to cause tremendous damage with the sheer speed of their impact.

Military Watch Magazine

militarywatchmagazine.com

Which is a good reason why "militarywatchmagazine.com" should absolutely never be used as a reference by anybody. That is, unless they want to cause a chuckle because most of their articles are pure garbage.

Oh, there really was a "Project Thor". It was only a paper however, and never went beyond just a proposal. Actually created by Jerry Pournelle, when he worked at Boeing in the 1950's. However, he is mostly known as a science fiction author, writing with such people as Larry Niven and Steven Barnes.

But when you actually know what "Project Thor" was (a paper concept only written 70 years ago) and then somebody tries to convince people in a garbage website it not only is real but is being made now, all I can do is laugh. And wish that I had not traded in my shares in that tinfoil hat company in order to invest in that company that would let me run my car on water.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

WMDs do not need to be in the megaton range. Just a few kilotons is enough. In fact, they do not even need to do that, a missile alone with no warhead can be a WMD.

Thank you for playing, please keep looking though. Because the truth is still out there, somewhere.

WMDs do not need to be in the megaton range.

But you said,

"What, are one that believes that a megaton plus weapon does not qualify, simply because it uses kinetic energy and not nuclear to do the damage?"

Have you done any research since that whopper?

Are they no longer in the megaton range?

 

[Circe]

Every part of every American spacecraft was made by private industry. What prevented American companies in 1969 from taking the project, or a more ambitious project, over themselves?

What impetus would there have been to do that? What impetus is there for us to do it today?

None, because there's nowhere to go.

The space race was the thought-child of the sci-fi age that saw Mars, even the Moon, as habitable and when we got over that (there are still some scifi's about those but no one supposes they'll be terraformed anymore; it's all about space suits and pressurized domed cities) it became all about the space warp, the targetable Black Hole, the folded dimensions ---------------

Ooops, we don't know how to do any of that. But nearly all scifi -- I'm a big fan -- now presupposes galaxy-hopping. So we're waiting for the universe to open up.

 

[Mushroom]

Are they no longer in the megaton range?

They have never been in the first place.

They are a chimera, a figment of the imagination of the lunatic conspiracy theory nuts. Like Fluoride in the water and vaportrails.

Why this obsession, are you mad because I think they are just moonbeams and stardust?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They have never been in the first place.

They are a chimera, a figment of the imagination of the lunatic conspiracy theory nuts. Like Fluoride in the water and vaportrails.

Why this obsession, are you mad because I think they are just moonbeams and stardust?

They have never been in the first place.

So you mentioned it because you were confused?

Why this obsession,

Because of your post. And then your repeated evasions. In what way are they anything like a WMD?

 

[Mushroom]

The space race was the thought-child of the sci-fi age that saw Mars, even the Moon, as habitable and when we got over that (there are still some scifi's about those but no one supposes they'll be terraformed anymore; it's all about space suits and pressurized domed cities)

Well, do not ignore the difference between "popular fiction", and what the scientists already knew.

While most of the big authors of the time were writing about swamps on Venus and hidden cities on Mars, the authors themselves knew that was just to give a foundation to write a good story. They were romances, and were really about as serious as the romances of the 16th century that inspired Miguel de Cervantes to pen Don Quixote.

Hell, one of the first to talk about what would become terraforming was Carl Sagan. He started writing about that in the early 1960s, but even then knew that would likely never happen as it would take thousands of years at a minimum to so radically change the atmosphere and conditions on a planet.

Do not confuse the "pop culture concept" of what the common people thought of an idea, and what the scientists themselves actually knew.

 

[BackAgain]

FYI:

NASA shows off early plans to send astronauts to Mars for 30 days

The agency also wants feedback about its concept.

www.space.com

Still in the very preliminary planning stages. But since it is 2022 it seems that if it occurs at all and does so by say 2041 or 2042, the time frame could work as I previously suggested.

Furthermore, the planning seems to include a launch from a lunar pad or maybe from an orbital “pad.”

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

WMDs do not need to be in the megaton range.

But you said,

"What, are one that believes that a megaton plus weapon does not qualify, simply because it uses kinetic energy and not nuclear to do the damage?"

Have you done any research since that whopper?

Are they no longer in the megaton range?

How can they be measured in megatons if they do NOT explode?

 

[Mushroom]

How can they be measured in megatons if they do NOT explode?

In that, it is used as a frame of reference. Just as nukes, which do not actually have TNT in them. Asteroids also typically use such references, to give humans a common scale to rate the impact damage.

The Sentry Risk Table estimates that Apophis would impact Earth with kinetic energy equivalent to 1,200 megatons of TNT. In comparison, the Chicxulub impact which caused the mass extinction event responsible for wiping out the dinosaurs has been estimated to have released about as much energy as 100,000,000 megatons (100 teratons). The exact effects of any impact would vary based on the asteroid's composition, and the location and angle of impact. Any impact would be extremely detrimental to an area of thousands of square kilometres, but would be unlikely to have long-lasting global effects, such as the initiation of an impact winter.

99942 Apophis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[westwall]

How can they be measured in megatons if they do NOT explode?

A rock, moving at high velocity turns whatever it hits into a plasma, which superheats whatever it is in contact with, which then causes an explosion. All thanks to mass times velocity squared.

I thought you were a teacher?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

In that, it is used as a frame of reference. Just as nukes, which do not actually have TNT in them. Asteroids also typically use such references, to give humans a common scale to rate the impact damage.

99942 Apophis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But that asteroid has a huge mass and would have incredible velocity. A 20 foot rod of tungsten would not have that mass to create any where near that kinetic energy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How can they be measured in megatons if they do NOT explode?

They strike at something like Mach 10, they're very heavy and very dense.
They're the opposite of a WMD. They're pinpoint weapons. Meant to take out a deep bunker that would survive a surface blast from a nuke. There were also versions discussed that
would have been much smaller, to take out tanks.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They strike at something like Mach 10, they're very heavy and very dense.
They're the opposite of a WMD. They're pinpoint weapons. Meant to take out a deep bunker that would survive a surface blast from a nuke. There were also versions discussed that
would have been much smaller, to take out tanks.

How would you target a tank from outer space? They can move you realize, right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How would you target a tank from outer space? They can move you realize, right?

Probably more likely to kill parked tanks, not fast moving tanks.

 

[Mushroom]

But that asteroid has a huge mass and would have incredible velocity. A 20 foot rod of tungsten would not have that mass to create any where near that kinetic energy.

E=MC2.

That is a famous formula, and in the most basic estimates the energy released. And in case you missed it, "C" is a key part, and is actually velocity. Mass times velocity squared. Decrease the mass, increase the velocity.

Now, let's actually examine how much mass that would be.

Tungsten is actually one of the densest metals commonly available. A rod 20 feet long and 1 foot in diameter comes in at around 13 metric tons. Now figure that this fictional 13 ton object would be slamming into the earth at Mach 10+. One does not need to be Einstein to see that the impact would be huge.

Of course, the very idea that somebody somehow launched 13 ton telephone poles into space and nobody noticed it is laughable in the extreme. Which is why I always dismiss it as conspiracy nonsense.

After all, it is not always mass that matters. A duck does not weigh much compared to a jumbo jet. And yet, jets are grounded each year simply because they ran into such creatures (or did the duck run into the jet?).