Why do americans hate government spending?

[bripat9643]

This is why liberals should NEVER have the power of the purse.

I disagree. Balanced budget lunatics should be kept away from the purse.

Of course you do. Every lunatic thinks the pilot should be kept away from the controls of the airplane.

 

[bripat9643]

Not really. On a net worth basis, the debt more than cancels out the assets.

Government bonds are a liability for the government, A CURRENCY ISSUER, and an asset for the holder, usually someone in the private sector. My post is correct.

And worthless if the net assets of the issuer are insufficient to redeem the bonds. You really need an econ course or something.

The government is a currency issuer. Any debt denominated in its currency can be paid off with keystrokes. The government doesn't really need more assets then liabilities.

Then why doesn't the Fed just print $20T and pay off the debt?

That's a stupid idea because bond holders don't want that to happen, and there's no reason to.

Well then how can the fed monetize the debt if the bond holders don't want it to be monetized? You just admitted the government has to pay it off at some point.

 

[bripat9643]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

Nobody "hates" spending, that's like saying we hate government.

We just don't like the irresponsible manner in which either are carried out. Saying we hate government or hate spending is the liberal narrative that basically says it's all or nothing. If you're not all in on everything at any level, then you hate everything at any level.

It isn't the most intelligent response.

We just don't like the irresponsible manner in which either are carried out.

Explain what's irresponsible. The only real issue is we're not spending enough.

You really need to have it explained to you why government spending is irresponsible? Just consider Social Security, the world's largest Ponzi scheme.

You don't know what a ponzi scheme is.

Of course I do. Social Security fits the description to the letter.

 

[bripat9643]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

Because it is stolen money spent by a mob.

I am sure you can tell why according to MMT theory the government is god though...

Because your economic understanding in its vastness can be summed up with:
-

You're an idiot.

Because it is stolen money spent by a mob.

The government is the currency issuer here. Banks also create money, loans create deposits, but this comes with a matching liability within the private sector.

I am sure you can tell why according to MMT theory the government is god though...

Capitalism cannot exist without a government.

Because your economic understanding in its vastness can be summed up with:

Dead wrong, bozo. Government did not create money. Private banks create money.

 

[bripat9643]

You don't understand anything about how or why government spends money. Much of it is waste, fraud, abuse of power by deal making, spending against people's interests, funding social wet dreams over infrastructure, military and police (which are the primary reasons government exists) and on and on.

It's a bizarre question, how can one live long enough to learn how to type on a computer, register on a forum and ask a question so out of touch with reality?

I understand why a government spends money. For the public purpose. Ok.. all government spending ends up as income for someone in the private/foreign sector, even if it's considered "wasteful." Assume the government deficit spends 1 billion on building a test site in the middle of the desert. Some would call this wasteful. Ok, so people are employed to build this and paid the dollars, and the businesses that provide the real resources are also paid dollars, which they use to pay their employees. This all boosts demand. Now, should this happen? No, of course not, but in an economy with depressed demand, plenty of real resources, and unemployed people, what's the real harm? And the "wasteful spending" is only a small amount of overall government spending.

Wasteful spending is a huge part of government spending and no, it doesn't all benefit the private sector.

When there's plenty of real resources, and when businesses are just waiting for people to start producing sales, what is the harm?

The harm is that resources are being consumed by useless parasites instead of being put to a productive use.

Elaborate on this nonsense.

What does some welfare queen sitting on her sofa stuffing her face with bon-bons produce for the rest of society? Answer: nothing. In fact, she positively harms society by producing a litter of sociopaths who grow up to become criminals and populate our prisons.

On the other hand, the person who paid the taxes that paid for the checks received by the welfare queen earned the money by producing some product or service of value to consumers. For instance, software programmers produce software that makes industry more productive.

 

[bripat9643]

Nobody "hates" spending, that's like saying we hate government.

We just don't like the irresponsible manner in which either are carried out. Saying we hate government or hate spending is the liberal narrative that basically says it's all or nothing. If you're not all in on everything at any level, then you hate everything at any level.

It isn't the most intelligent response.

We just don't like the irresponsible manner in which either are carried out.

Explain what's irresponsible. The only real issue is we're not spending enough.

You really need to have it explained to you why government spending is irresponsible? Just consider Social Security, the world's largest Ponzi scheme.

Just as an aside, I'm pretty sure that Dovahkiin knows far more about economics than most posters on this forum (myself included). You aren't going to get away with throwaway statements like "the world's largest Ponzi scheme" unless you actually discuss the specific details about the issues you have with things and why.

I have discussed the SS Ponzie scheme ad nauseum. Anyone who claims it isn't a Ponzi scheme is an economic ignoramus.

So why don't you elaborate. Are you mad that SS doesn't actually have a trust fund with dollars in a vault?

I'm mad that government takes approximately 13% of my income every year and then pisses it away.

 

[bripat9643]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

Americans don't hate all government spending, we hate wasteful government spending.

It's all wasteful

In a world without a government spending, we'd all have to rely on bank loans. Good luck with that.

That's exactly how our economy worked for 150 years. During that period the United States became the richest country the world had every seen.

 

[bripat9643]

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

This is the stupid shit I get tired of. You don't even know why you believe it's "irresponsible."

Sure I do.... but if you think we're not spending enough, you'll never get it. Why should I, or anyone for that matter, waste our time? You think we got to $20,000,000,000,000 in debt and $120,000,000,000,000 in unfunded liabilities by under-spending?

You're either being silly or are really not that bright. That's like having $20,000 in credit card debt and saying "i just haven't borrowed enough".

Imagine having a printing press in your basement and debt denominated in what comes off that press.

That's exactly why we don't want government doing the same thing.

Do you understand money creation?

I understand it better than you. In particular, I understand why we don't want politicians to have control over this process.

 

[Rustic]

Those are all illusory benefits. And you think they compensate for a great big gaping hole in my wallet?

I favor lower taxes. When the economy is experiencing depressed demand, the government needs to spend to help the private sector deleverage/have more dollars to spend.

Funniest thing I read all day!!

Were you in a coma next to Rip Van Winkle this past decade? Japan, China the EU and the USA ran up $4 in debt for every dollar in GDP. It was the biggest spending orgy in history.

How much of that spending ended up in the hands of americans?

Wait. You were asking without knowing the answer? Are you Paul Krugman?

The GDP in 09 was about $14T and today you let's call it $18T, thats a $4T increase.

We added $9T in US debt PLUS the Fed added $4T to there balance sheet so we took out 13T in debt to fund 4T in GDP.

Is that your version of a good deal

Yes. The debt is no real burden.

The one in debt is ALWAYS a slave to the one who owns the debt...

 

[Never3ndr]

I favor lower taxes. When the economy is experiencing depressed demand, the government needs to spend to help the private sector deleverage/have more dollars to spend.

Funniest thing I read all day!!

Were you in a coma next to Rip Van Winkle this past decade? Japan, China the EU and the USA ran up $4 in debt for every dollar in GDP. It was the biggest spending orgy in history.

How much of that spending ended up in the hands of americans?

Wait. You were asking without knowing the answer? Are you Paul Krugman?

The GDP in 09 was about $14T and today you let's call it $18T, thats a $4T increase.

We added $9T in US debt PLUS the Fed added $4T to there balance sheet so we took out 13T in debt to fund 4T in GDP.

Is that your version of a good deal

Yes. The debt is no real burden.

The one in debt is ALWAYS a slave to the one who owns the debt...

I'm just praying you don't actually believe this statement or are grossly exaggerating for comedic effect.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

Why do foreigners pretend to have a voice in our politics?

 

[Dovahkiin]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

Why do foreigners pretend to have a voice in our politics?

I'm a US citizen.

 

[Dovahkiin]

Maybe the OP can explain how spending almost 800K thousand dollars to see if we can train a lion to run on a treadmill is good for the people.
When he cant find a rational answer, that will be the answer to the OP question.

800 thousand dollars went to individuals in the private sector who in turn used the dollars. There are few examples of this type of waste in relation to all spending though.

800K dollars was taken from people in the private sector who were unable to use if for their own more productive uses. The net result is negative to the economy.

You don't know what a deficit is?

 

[bripat9643]

Of what relevance is the deficit?

 

[Billy000]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

They see it as irresponsibility. However, what the rightwing is too dumb to understand is that huge tax cuts for the wealthy are just as irresponsible. Both policies skyrocket the deficit.

Responsible spending is modest and is coupled with tax hikes to pay for it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

First you'd have to realize that the Federal government is NOT the US economy and you're not there yet

 

[Dekster]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

Just depends on what the money is being spent on.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

Because we value diversity. We believe individuals, spending their own money in accordance with their own unique values, is preferable to making decisions globally.

I don't agree. I think regionally we make the mistake of putting all of our eggs in one basket.
For example. Detroit relied too heavily on the auto mfg industry. Once the business model changed and the the major auto mfgrs began to be effected by competition, had to find ways to cuyt costs. Michigan suddenly became a place to leave.....Cities such as Dearborn, Flint and Detroit say huge losses in employment, tax ratables and general decay.
Charlotte, NC....Almost saw a collapse in the late 2000's when this banking heavy city was hit hard by the housing bubble burst.
Houston. Was in a terrible recession in the late 80's due to it's reliance on oil production.
Today, the most prosperous metro areas are those that have no main industry or business type. But those are not many

Eh?

spoon, how should we have avoided that? By a government-private collusion on resources and locations, which is right wing big government fascism. Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Redfish]

I seriously want to understand this. Any ideas?

They see it as irresponsibility. However, what the rightwing is too dumb to understand is that huge tax cuts for the wealthy are just as irresponsible. Both policies skyrocket the deficit.

Responsible spending is modest and is coupled with tax hikes to pay for it.

Bullshit, the govt could take 100% of the incomes of the top 10% and we would still have a deficit and the national debt would continue to grow.

Spending is the problem, not revenue.

 

[Rustic]

Funniest thing I read all day!!

Were you in a coma next to Rip Van Winkle this past decade? Japan, China the EU and the USA ran up $4 in debt for every dollar in GDP. It was the biggest spending orgy in history.

How much of that spending ended up in the hands of americans?

Wait. You were asking without knowing the answer? Are you Paul Krugman?

The GDP in 09 was about $14T and today you let's call it $18T, thats a $4T increase.

We added $9T in US debt PLUS the Fed added $4T to there balance sheet so we took out 13T in debt to fund 4T in GDP.

Is that your version of a good deal

Yes. The debt is no real burden.

The one in debt is ALWAYS a slave to the one who owns the debt...

I'm just praying you don't actually believe this statement or are grossly exaggerating for comedic effect.

It is a true statement...