Why do Blue States lead in Education and Standard of Living?

[Gray]

Management of the auto industry in the USA and their lack of ingenuity and the lack of being able to read the market and their competition the past several decades is why they have NOT succeeded....union workers had little to do with it, bad business models and decisions of those at the very top, did.

But NICE shallow...little cliche' answer there....

care

Some of what you say is true. The fact remains though, that 20% ? of the cost of an auto goes to pay for the workers retirement and medical benefits.

High Union wages are killing industry. It makes it impossible to be competitive on any international market.

 

[maineman]

Management of the auto industry in the USA and their lack of ingenuity and the lack of being able to read the market and their competition the past several decades is why they have NOT succeeded....union workers had little to do with it, bad business models and decisions of those at the very top, did.

But NICE shallow...little cliche' answer there....

care

precisely.

bravo!

How ya like this lovely maine fall??

 

[Gray]

Union-Wage Bind




That's not a typo in the headline. According to this Wall Street Journal article reprinted in the Star-Telegram, "on average, GM pays $81.18 an hour in wages and benefits to U.S. hourly workers, including pension and retiree medical costs."

But in his vituperative rant against the Big Three U.S. automakers, Boston Globe columnist Derrick Z. Jackson manages to ignore the huge labor cost advantage enjoyed by non-union Toyota.

How much of an advantage? According to that same article, "Harbour Consulting President Ron Harbour estimates Toyota's total hourly U.S. labor costs, with benefits, at about $35 an hour." That's right, GM's average labor costs are 130% higher than that of the US operations of its Japanese rival. That translates into a $1,000/vehicle average labor-cost advantage enjoyed by Toyota. Thank you, UAW!

$81/Hr: Globe Columnist Ignores US Automakers' Union-Wage Bind | NewsBusters.org

 

[sealybobo]

Your Unions are causing the collapse of the auto industry. You can only squeeze that golden goose so much before you kill it.

That's a joke. What's collapsing all the other industries that aren't union? You see how much corporations pay none union people. I'm not even in a union, but because they are in my state, it drove up our wages. Are you a worker or a corporation?

Can't buy homes and get this economy going if you kick the middle class in the balls.

So the south was happy to take our jobs for less money. Better than nothing. But you are slaves. You'll never save enough to retire. No pensions, no social security, lose everything when you get sick.

This is our future. You are a house slave.

Every sick day, overime, worker right you have? Thank a union.

 

[Care4all]

precisely.

bravo!

How ya like this lovely maine fall??

It's been beautiful Maineman!

Beats the heck out of LAST fall or the lack there of....!

i think we had snow in october last year, or it sure seemed like we did!

Care

 

[sealybobo]

$81/Hr: Globe Columnist Ignores US Automakers' Union-Wage Bind | NewsBusters.org

Keep in mind mccain wants to tax you on all $35 or $81.

 

[Gray]

Keep in mind mccain wants to tax you on all $35 or $81.

Forgive me if I do not believe anything a Libs says without proof.

 

[Care4all]

Some of what you say is true. The fact remains though, that 20% ? of the cost of an auto goes to pay for the workers retirement and medical benefits.

High Union wages are killing industry. It makes it impossible to be competitive on any international market.

with the right products, all of what you state, could have been overcome imo Gray...

When i was in business, we used to have a saying..."Sales, heals all wounds".

if the sales of these auto makers were continually trending upwards, their selling cost would be going down...or rather their productivity of each worker would have gone up, more than covering their higher salaries...because they would have produced more...

Detroit missed the boat, while it was directly in front of them since the 70's with the oil embargo...fuel efficient cars, and fuel efficient cars with gusto could have been theirs to own, if they had focused on it....but they just stared at the boat...that one from japan and ignored it...for DECADES...

care

 

[sealybobo]

Some of what you say is true. The fact remains though, that 20% ? of the cost of an auto goes to pay for the workers retirement and medical benefits.

High Union wages are killing industry. It makes it impossible to be competitive on any international market.

Are you suggesting we pay our labor comparable to india, mexico and china?

if not, will we ever be competitive internationally?

 

[Gray]

Are you suggesting we pay our labor comparable to india, mexico and china?

if not, will we ever be competitive internationally?

I am suggesting no such thing. I am pointing out reality and facts.

While you smugly rejoice in your extremely high Union wages I am just point out that right now the Automakers are in dire jeopardy.

The bubble is about to burst and the lifestyle you were crowing about earlier is not sustainable.

I am not being judgmental in this I am being a realist.

 

[Gray]

with the right products, all of what you state, could have been overcome imo Gray...

When i was in business, we used to have a saying..."Sales, heals all wounds".

if the sales of these auto makers were continually trending upwards, their selling cost would be going down...or rather their productivity of each worker would have gone up, more than covering their higher salaries...because they would have produced more...

Detroit missed the boat, while it was directly in front of them since the 70's with the oil embargo...fuel efficient cars, and fuel efficient cars with gusto could have been theirs to own, if they had focused on it....but they just stared at the boat...that one from japan and ignored it...for DECADES...

care

Cater to the desire of the buyer. It is all you can do. Make a superior product for less than the competition.

Such things should be driven by the free market, never by government interference. Congress ups the CAFE standards and immediate thousands of Americans die horrible deaths.

Fuel efficiency is a wonderful thing....problem is....The automakers do not possess some hidden technology to accomplish this.

It is done by trimming weight. When you drop a vehicles weight, people start dying.


It is the law of unintended consequences.

 

[Care4all]

Cater to the desire of the buyer. It is all you can do. Make a superior product for less than the competition.

Such things should be driven by the free market, never by government interference. Congress ups the CAFE standards and immediate thousands of Americans die horrible deaths.

Fuel efficiency is a wonderful thing....problem is....The automakers do not possess some hidden technology to accomplish this.

It is done by trimming weight. When you drop a vehicles weight, people start dying.


It is the law of unintended consequences.

oh bull, we can create anything...if we put our minds to it...the key, is to have ''something'' with proprietary features, where you don't have to compete for the lowest dollar....walmart and kmart and Target is the latter in retail as example and bloomingdales or lord and taylor or Nordstroms would be the former.... or even better...Keds would be the latter, where there product is cheap as can be, in order to sell it.....while Nike continued to build on their technology, calling for much higher prices for the features and benefits that were their own, in their products....(of course, both of them are in Asia making their product, but the idea is still valid) Create something, that is your own niche in the market place, that can be trademarked and not copied by your competitors for a few years, that is also wanted and beneficial to your customer....

Detroit is falling due to Darwinism, they just are not the fittest....

 

[sealybobo]

with the right products, all of what you state, could have been overcome imo Gray...

When i was in business, we used to have a saying..."Sales, heals all wounds".

if the sales of these auto makers were continually trending upwards, their selling cost would be going down...or rather their productivity of each worker would have gone up, more than covering their higher salaries...because they would have produced more...

Detroit missed the boat, while it was directly in front of them since the 70's with the oil embargo...fuel efficient cars, and fuel efficient cars with gusto could have been theirs to own, if they had focused on it....but they just stared at the boat...that one from japan and ignored it...for DECADES...

care

Has it ever crossed your mind that they did it on purpose? Ford is making a fortune in asia. But Ford North America is bleeding money, and ceo's are making record pay. Sound familiar?

They are starting new hires out at $15 hr. Ford. Do you guys know that? And if they can go belly up, they can stop paying pensions. Then us taxpayers will have to pay it. And the government will bail them out too. They already started.

People down south aren't even smart enough to organize.

 

[sealybobo]

oh bull, we can create anything...if we put our minds to it...the key, is to have ''something'' with proprietary features, where you don't have to compete for the lowest dollar....walmart and kmart and Target is the latter in retail as example and bloomingdales or lord and taylor or Nordstroms would be the former.... or even better...Keds would be the latter, where there product is cheap as can be, in order to sell it.....while Nike continued to build on their technology, calling for much higher prices for the features and benefits that were their own, in their products....(of course, both of them are in Asia making their product, but the idea is still valid) Create something, that is your own niche in the market place, that can be trademarked and not copied by your competitors for a few years, that is also wanted and beneficial to your customer....

Detroit is falling due to Darwinism, they just are not the fittest....

When's the last time you heard about us buying from child slave labor? Free markets don't care.

So basically Americans can't just assume the highest standard of living, we have to earn it. And under gopanimics, only about 40 percent will achive the dream. The rest will die without dignity.

It seems like everything the gop scare us about, they are the ones creating those problems. They warn about socialized medicine but the way things are going, many of us won't have enough health coverage when we get older. Or you'll go broke because of some pre existing condition. So while you have good health insurance now and don't want that taken from you to give coverage to someone who doesn't deserve it, remember, one day you might be on the outside of the bubble looking in.

 

[sealybobo]

I am suggesting no such thing. I am pointing out reality and facts.

While you smugly rejoice in your extremely high Union wages I am just point out that right now the Automakers are in dire jeopardy.

The bubble is about to burst and the lifestyle you were crowing about earlier is not sustainable.

I am not being judgmental in this I am being a realist.

Who says it isn't sustainable? Corporations? They also justify $20 million ceo pay. You swallowing that too?

No, trickle down doesn't work and bushanomics is unsustainable. Isn't that obvious?

Consumer confidence will not recover and all those homes will never go back up in value or be sold with your approach.

You seem to favor Mexico. A few rich and the rest are broke. You think you're job is safe? What do you do?

 

[Missourian]

too fucking bad you don't get the say so ain't it, puts a new twist in yer pretzel. The Japanese are clearly better car builders. Detroit should have taken note years ago.

They did. My wifes "Ford" Probe was built in conjunction with Mazda.

The Ford Probe was a coupe produced by Ford, introduced in 1989 to replace the Ford EXP as the company's sport compact car. The Probe was fully based on the Mazda G-platform using unique sheetmetal and interior. The instrument cluster and pop-up headlight mechanisms are borrowed from the FC RX-7. LINK.

Ford is in business with Mazda thru AutoAlliance International (AAI):

AutoAlliance International (AAI) is a joint venture automobile assembly firm co-owned by Ford Motor Company and Mazda Motor Corporation, in which Ford owns a (33.4%) controlling interest. The main AAI plant is located at 1 International Drive in Flat Rock, Michigan. Its approximately 2,700,000 square feet (251,000 m2) and currently employs over 3,700 hourly and salaried workers.

In 1987, Mazda purchased Ford's unused former Michigan Casting Center, for North American production of the updated 1988 Mazda 626 sedans. The plant reopened in September 1987 as Mazda Motor Manufacturing (USA). Starting in 1987, AAI produced all Mazda MX-6 coupes and the similar Ford Probes sold in North America.

Ford repurchased a 50% share in the plant on April 15, 1992, and plant officially became a joint-venture and was renamed on July 1, 1992 as Ford took over operational management. The plant began production of all models of the Mazda 626 sold in America starting in 1993. The Ford Contour-derived Mercury Cougar was produced at the plant from 1999 to 2002. Production of North American Mazda6 models began in the 2002 model year, along with the current version of the Ford Mustang in 2005.

The factory is unionized with the United Auto Workers. Link.

So Ford has no problem with Japanese cars OR sending profits to Japan....as long as you by their Japanese car that is.

 

[Missourian]

Unions are good...in moderation. I work with the unions all the time and by and large they work in the interests of the working man. My trucks have never and will never cross a union picket-line, it's in every contract I have.

But unions can and have been as greedy as big corporations. Sometimes they get a little carried away.

And the unions don't stick together like they used to. Look at what happened to CAT in Peoria.

 

[sealybobo]

Unions are good...in moderation. I work with the unions all the time and by and large they work in the interests of the working man. My trucks have never and will never cross a union picket-line, it's in every contract I have.

But unions can and have been as greedy as big corporations. Sometimes they get a little carried away.

And the unions don't stick together like they used to. Look at what happened to CAT in Peoria.

Reagan started breaking unions when he broke the air traffic controllers union. I watched the detroit newspaper break their union. What happened to steel workers union? POWERLESS.

Yes, we need a national all workers union. They barter for wages, etc. But bad employees can be fired. True, unions got corupted too.

 

[chopcrazy]

No I mean these....
CNNMoney
The richest (and poorest) places in the U.S.
Maryland knocked New Jersey out of the top spot this year, while Mississippi and West Virginia were the poorest states in the Union.
By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer
August 31 2007: 3:09 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Maryland is now the wealthiest state in the union, as measured by median household income, according to the latest stats from the Census Bureau.

The typical Maryland household earned $65,144 in 2006, propelling it past New Jersey, which came in second with earnings of $64,470, but had led the nation in 2005. Connecticut finished in third place both years, recording a median income of $63,422 in 2006.

Top 10 wealthiest states
Here's where the median household income is highest
State Income
Maryland $65,144
New Jersey $64,470
Connecticut $63,422
Hawaii $61,160
Massachusetts $59,963
New Hampshire $59,683
Alaska $59,393
California $56,645
Virginia $56,277
Minnesota $54,023
Source:U.S. Census Bureau
The 10 poorest states
The states with the lowest median household income
State Income
New Mexico $40,629
Montana $40,627
Tennessee $40,315
Kentucky $39,372
Louisiana $39,337
Alabama $38,783
Oklahoma $38,770
Arkansas $36,599
West Virginia $35,059
Mississippi $34,473
Source:U.S. Census Bureau

Maryland's income was nearly double that of Mississippi, which, with a median of $34,473, was the nation's poorest state. West Virginia, where the median household earned $35,059, was second poorest and Arkansas, at $36,599, was third.

The median income for the United States as a whole came to $48,451.

Household incomes rose, but . . .

Income growth was highest in the District of Columbia, where it rose 6.4 percent for the year. Median income in both Nevada and New Mexico jumped 4.5 percent. Delaware, down 2.9 percent, took the biggest dip, followed by Rhode Island (down 2.0 percent) and Maine (down 1.6 percent).

Among places with 250,000 or more residents, the affluent Dallas suburb of Plano, Texas, boasts the highest median income: $77,038. San Jose came in second at $73,804 and San Francisco was third with $65,497.

Paychecks in 2008: No big bump

The list of the 10 poorest cities was filled with mostly old, northeastern and mid-western industrial locales. Cleveland had the lowest median income of any city in the nation with more than 250,000 residents; households there earned just $26,535. Miami was the next poorest at $27,088, followed by Buffalo ($27,850), Detroit ($28,364), St. Louis ($30,936) and Cincinnati ($31,103).

Other poor sun-belt cities included Memphis ($32, 593) and El Paso (33,103). With median income of $33,229, Philadelphia was the only city among the nation's 10 biggest that was also among the 10 poorest cities.

The middle class may be better off than it thinks.

Among towns of between 65,000 and 250,000 in population, Yorba Linda, California, where six-figure incomes are the rule, had the highest median income at $121,075. The Orange County town is considerably wealthier than the second place city, Pleasanton, California, in the Bay area, which had a median income of $105,956.

The lowest income town of any with more than 65,000 population was Youngstown, Ohio at $21,850, which finished last by a large margin. Muncie, Indiana was its closest rival for this dubious distinction, with residents there earning $25,859, a difference of 18 percent.

What does your analysis say about disposable income...income available after paying for living expenses, taxes, food, etc.? If the median home sales price in Maryland is $320k (almost 4.9x the median income) and in Mississippi the median home sales price is 83K (almost 2.4x the median income), how does the standard of living compare? I estimate that about 50% of the money being made in Maryland goes towards the house payment and in MS only about 25%.

 

[sealybobo]

I am suggesting no such thing. I am pointing out reality and facts.

While you smugly rejoice in your extremely high Union wages I am just point out that right now the Automakers are in dire jeopardy.

The bubble is about to burst and the lifestyle you were crowing about earlier is not sustainable.

I am not being judgmental in this I am being a realist.

And one day you will be pitted against a foreign worker who only wants half of what you make, stupid. You know the saying, "i was ok with it until they came for me, then there was no one left to turn to".