Why do people hate Liberals?

And health care at all levels was far more affordable before the federal government got involved. And survival rates for deadly diseases was higher in the USA than any other place. Once the government started pulling millions of people into the system, however, with guaranteed payments and the person's ability to pay was no longer a factor, the costs have been spiraling out of control ever since. It happens every single time the free market system is short circuited by something somebody promises will be better.

It is no accident that the more Medicaid and Medicare have been expanded, the higher insurance costs have risen and the more costly all forms of healthcare has become.

The argument can be made that health care would be more affordable and more patient friendly--the health care providers would have to provide a product at a cost people could afford - if the government got out of the business altogether.

It has to be part of the equation.

Totally false premise AGAIN.

cr_logo_home.png


High health care costs: Who's to blame?

Drug companies, insurers, politicians, lawyers, and the bad habits of Americans all figure into high and rising health-care costs. But the biggest contributors to high costs—doctors and hospitals—get off easier among consumers, our survey found.

"The aim of our health-care system should not be to make a profit for insurance and drug companies. It should be to provide affordable, high-quality care for all Americans," said Andrea Hanson, 31, a college teacher from Murphy, Texas, who responded to our invitation to share her story online.

The focus on drug and pharmaceutical companies is not surprising because of the way that most Americans pay for health care, said experts we consulted.

"Americans tend to focus on the bills they pay, not the total cost of health care," said Jacob S. Hacker, professor of political science at Yale University. "And the bills for most Americans ultimately reflect what insurance companies don't cover and what drug companies charge consumers at the pharmacy. They see the big profits these companies earn even as they, the patients, are struggling to pay their bills."

But a closer look at health-cost trends shows that these players, in roughly descending order, contributed the most to rising costs:

Hospitals and doctors. Doctors and hospitals account for by far the largest share, 52 percent in 2006, of all national health spending. There's abundant evidence that some of that spending is unnecessary. Under the present system, hospitals and doctors earn more money by doing costly interventions than by keeping people healthy. And more medical care doesn't necessarily mean better care, according to research on Medicare expenditures by the Dartmouth Medical School's Institute for Health Policy and Clinical Practice.

Yet just 59 percent of our survey respondents named hospitals, and 47 percent named doctors, as major spending culprits. (Percentages add up to more than 100 because respondents could select as many factors as they wanted.)

Drug companies. Prescription drugs account for only one-tenth of total health-care expenditures. But drug spending has increased as a share of overall expenditures over the past decade.

Seventy-six percent of respondents blamed drugmakers generally, and 74 percent said drugmakers charged too much for their products.

Insurance companies. Health-insurance premiums have grown faster than inflation or workers' earnings over the past decade, in parallel with the equally rapid rise in overall health costs. Industry spending on administrative and marketing costs, plus profits, consumes 12 percent of private-insurance premiums.

Seventy-seven percent of respondents blamed insurance companies in general for high costs, and 70 percent said insurers overcharged for their products and services.

Politicians and government regulators. Although the government directly controls only 46 percent of national health spending, many of its policies affect the bottom line of the health-care industry, for example, by setting Medicare reimbursement rates for doctors on which private insurers base their rates, or by regulating health insurance. Between 1999 and 2006, the health-care lobby spent more than any other business sector, according to a study by the Institute for Health & Socio-Economic Policy, a nonprofit policy and research group.

Sixty-four percent of respondents faulted politicians and 58 percent faulted government regulators for failing to control health-care costs.

Lawyers. Malpractice-insurance premiums and liability awards account for less than 2 percent of overall health-care spending, according to a 2004 study by the Congressional Budget Office. Defensive medicine, the practice of ordering extra tests or procedures to protect against lawsuits, might add another few percentage points, according to some estimates.

Yet 60 percent of respondents blamed lawyers for high costs, and 69 percent specifically pointed to "frivolous lawsuits."

Health-care consumers. "Modifiable" risk factors, such as eating too much, exercising too little, or smoking, are to blame for an estimated 25 percent of U.S. health-care costs, according to expert estimates. But even if every American took up healthful living overnight, our health-care expenses would still be the second highest in the world (after Luxembourg).

Sixty-eight percent of respondents thought those bad habits were to blame for high U.S. health costs.

A mere 41 percent of respondents blamed consumers for overusing services.

And the respondents "are correct not to believe that," said Hacker. "Patients have little control over the amount that hospitals and doctors charge. Our exorbitant medical prices are a result of the fragmented structure of our health-care system, not the choices of patients."

more
is it any wonder FoxFyre didn't didn't supply a link after giving her conservative corporate merkin manifesto? :eusa_whistle: lol
 
Last edited:
Liberalism is all about people. Conservatism is all about material things.
Bull shit. Liberalism is all about being stupid, ignorant, lazy, and good for nothing anchors on society. The only work a liberal does is steal from people and whine and complain about their shitty little lives. Conservatism is all about what's really good people vs. the lunatic programs of the leftists. Conservatism is about families and defense against the liberal's programs of theft and destruction. All the libs are good for is demolition of assets.

Bullshit, How may Liberals do you know? You are quite the judgemental asshole aren't you?

You want to take my money away from my children so you can buy your drugs? Enjoy it with the special sauce.
 
Last edited:
Liberalism is all about people. Conservatism is all about material things.
Bull shit. Liberalism is all about being stupid, ignorant, lazy, and good for nothing anchors on society. The only work a liberal does is steal from people and whine and complain about their shitty little lives. Conservatism is all about what's really good people vs. the lunatic programs of the leftists. Conservatism is about families and defense against the liberal's programs of theft and destruction. All the libs are good for is demolition of assets.

Classic example:

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith
 
Bull shit. Liberalism is all about being stupid, ignorant, lazy, and good for nothing anchors on society. The only work a liberal does is steal from people and whine and complain about their shitty little lives. Conservatism is all about what's really good people vs. the lunatic programs of the leftists. Conservatism is about families and defense against the liberal's programs of theft and destruction. All the libs are good for is demolition of assets.

Bullshit, How may Liberals do you know? You are quite the judgemental asshole aren't you?

You want to take my money away from my children so you can buy your drugs? Enjoy it with the special sauce.

It is really sad there are people like you in the world. I'm moving on. Have a nice day.
 
Bull shit. Liberalism is all about being stupid, ignorant, lazy, and good for nothing anchors on society. The only work a liberal does is steal from people and whine and complain about their shitty little lives. Conservatism is all about what's really good people vs. the lunatic programs of the leftists. Conservatism is about families and defense against the liberal's programs of theft and destruction. All the libs are good for is demolition of assets.

Bullshit, How may Liberals do you know? You are quite the judgemental asshole aren't you?

You want to take my money away from my children so you can buy your drugs? Enjoy it with the special sauce.

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer
 
Bullshit, How may Liberals do you know? You are quite the judgemental asshole aren't you?

You want to take my money away from my children so you can buy your drugs? Enjoy it with the special sauce.

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer
And 51% of American workers pay ZERO % EFFECTIVE PERSONAL INCOME TAX.
And 41 MILLION Americans on are food stamps.
And 9 MILLION Americans are on Disability.
The debt is due to the people not pulling their weight, and instead demanding the 49% row the boat for them.
 
You want to take my money away from my children so you can buy your drugs? Enjoy it with the special sauce.

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer
And 51% of American workers pay ZERO % EFFECTIVE PERSONAL INCOME TAX.
And 41 MILLION Americans on are food stamps.
And 9 MILLION Americans are on Disability.
The debt is due to the people not pulling their weight, and instead demanding the 49% row the boat for them.

6-21-11bud-test-f2.jpg
 
If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer
And 51% of American workers pay ZERO % EFFECTIVE PERSONAL INCOME TAX.
And 41 MILLION Americans on are food stamps.
And 9 MILLION Americans are on Disability.
The debt is due to the people not pulling their weight, and instead demanding the 49% row the boat for them.

6-21-11bud-test-f2.jpg
All the brown shit in your chart? Yeah, most of that money is the tax cuts for middle class income earners.
 
Last edited:
Liberalism is all about people. Conservatism is all about material things.
Bull shit. Liberalism is all about being stupid, ignorant, lazy, and good for nothing anchors on society. The only work a liberal does is steal from people and whine and complain about their shitty little lives. Conservatism is all about what's really good people vs. the lunatic programs of the leftists. Conservatism is about families and defense against the liberal's programs of theft and destruction. All the libs are good for is demolition of assets.
Bullshit, How may Liberals do you know? You are quite the judgemental asshole aren't you?
Don't expect too much of him. He is a Texan.

However, he is an excellent example of the fact that the United States is not a nation. America was founded, and has always functioned and been run, by scoundrels, scammers and con-artists. The whole mentality of its upper-classes is getting rich quick, and then ferociously clutching their ill-gotten gains.

America has no national cohesion; it is, in the Chinese phrase, "a plate of loose sand" -- individual grains rolling about, with no sense of unity with fellow citizens. Getting people to co-operate requires the galvanic shocks of mania and hysteria of the ersatz religion of Patriotism, which for brief periods can mimic National Life, and bring the moribund Body Politic to some clumsy spasms of co-ordinated activity.

In real nations, such as Finland or Japan or war-time Britain, there is a deeply felt well of national feeling -- the sense of "we're all in it together." It is utterly different from the Texas-style phony-baloney Jingoism which is a shame to everyone in the USA.

This utter lack of true national feeling explains why the USA is an amazingly rich country which nevertheless consistently, in almost all areas, is at the bottom of the heap in social standards among all the industrially advanced countries.

AVE CAESAR

No bitterness: our ancestors did it.
They were only ignorant and hopeful, they wanted freedom but wealth, too.
Their children will learn to hope for a Caesar.
Or rather -- for we are not aquiline Romans but soft mixed colonists --
Some kindly Sicilian tyrant who'll keep
Poverty and Carthage off until the Romans arrive.
We are easy to manage, a gregarious people,
Full of sentiment, clever at mechanics -- and we love our luxuries.

---Robinson Jeffers

.
 
However, he is an excellent example of the fact that the United States is not a nation. America was founded, and has always functioned and been run, by scoundrels, scammers and con-artists.
lol... The country is being run by... a collection of "scoundrels, scammers, and con-artists."

You mean lawyers?
 
If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer
And 51% of American workers pay ZERO % EFFECTIVE PERSONAL INCOME TAX.
And 41 MILLION Americans on are food stamps.
And 9 MILLION Americans are on Disability.
The debt is due to the people not pulling their weight, and instead demanding the 49% row the boat for them.

6-21-11bud-test-f2.jpg

your "post" doesn't refute a thing he said....
 
Bullshit, How may Liberals do you know? You are quite the judgemental asshole aren't you?

You want to take my money away from my children so you can buy your drugs? Enjoy it with the special sauce.

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

your post makes zero sense, one one hand you post-

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.


then post the evils of tax cits, tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn, instead of handing it over to the feds to redistribute, so in effect you've contradicted yourself.

BUT in spite of that, you do know that the top quartiles pay more taxes in any comparative basis than they did in say 86, right? No you don't, so don't bother answering.
 
Typical libtard response. Everyone on this planet knows to get checkups for breast cancer. Everyone. Libtard excuse for everyone not getting their free checkups? Republicans did not opt to beg everyone to get their free checkup earlier. Libtard solution? Steal money from republicans to give people free health care to replace the free health care being provided by the free clinic in the libtard provided example.

A really a sad commentary of what conservatism is all about.

That article was written in late 2009. That 50 year old women with stage four breast cancer, her body is filled with tumors is dead and buried.

The president of the board of the National Association of Free Health Clinics: "I don't know when that woman last saw a doctor. But I do know that if she had health insurance, the odds she would have seen a doctor long ago are much higher, and her chances for an earlier diagnosis and treatment would have been far greater."

Liberalism is all about people. Conservatism is all about material things.

You folks are the modern day Pharisee. I suggest you grab everything you can in this life, because eternity will be very hot for scum like you.

We have all made mistakes. But Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales. Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference.
President John F. Kennedy

Better the occasional faults of a party living in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a party frozen in the ice of its own indifference.
President John F. Kennedy

we are way past 'occasional'...


what brown said does have merit, and I can give you another example- when schip (The State Children's Health Insurance Program) rolled out, after approx. 3-5 years it became evident that several hundred thousand ( almost a million in fact if I recall correctly) folks who's kids were eligible, did not enroll them....they didn't sign them up, they just didn't....so what to do?

well, if your a democratic and use the old rope a dope, with the old its for the children emotional sob story, you get congress to raise eligibility benchmarks....raise the income level higher, now; I don't know what that had to do with the issue but thats what they did. Did it solve the original problem? No.....

Why? becasue people are not blocks of wood that do what you want them too, even if its for their own good or their child....there are people how simply do not look out for their own bests interests...and this is life.

you can only do so much and, absent dragging them out of their houses putting them in a car and making them sign up etc....all you can do is offer the chance to enroll and provide the assistance originally offered. Throwing money willy nilly at issues is just self aggrandizing emotional sap.... it may feel good, but it doesn't make it effective.

A friend of mine is an accountant and he had the single mother of a disabled child in to do her tax returns. The woman was struggling financially and he found earned income credits she wasn't using, as well as disability credits for her son, but the woman didn't want to claim them because she considered any money received from the government to be "welfare" and she wasn't a welfare case.

I have another friend who is very conservative, who is also struggling financially and she wouldn't ever sign up for something like SCHIPP because she believes all government programs are a slippery slope to communism.

There are all kinds of people who escew government programs for all sorts of reasons.

hey Bfgrn, I see you thanked her " response" to my post, but you don't have anything to say yourself?
 
You want to take my money away from my children so you can buy your drugs? Enjoy it with the special sauce.

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

your post makes zero sense, one one hand you post-

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.


then post the evils of tax cits, tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn, instead of handing it over to the feds to redistribute, so in effect you've contradicted yourself.

BUT in spite of that, you do know that the top quartiles pay more taxes in any comparative basis than they did in say 86, right? No you don't, so don't bother answering.






bfgrn posts whatever his handlers tell him to post. He has no brain of his own...
 
And 51% of American workers pay ZERO % EFFECTIVE PERSONAL INCOME TAX.
And 41 MILLION Americans on are food stamps.
And 9 MILLION Americans are on Disability.
The debt is due to the people not pulling their weight, and instead demanding the 49% row the boat for them.

6-21-11bud-test-f2.jpg

your "post" doesn't refute a thing he said....

SO, the debt will be paid down by WHOM?

Social programs are not the cause of the debt held by the public. And Social Security has helped lower the deficit.

Plus his figures on federal taxes are wrong, typical of the right.

Disability is up due to demographics.

Social Security Disability Enrollment Rising Due To Demographic Trends: CBO

CBO - Policy Options for the Social Security Disability Insurance Program
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43421-DisabilityInsurance_screen.pdf

"The study, by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, found that the biggest jumps in the disabled population came from aging Baby Boomers. From 1996 through 2009 -- "the approximate period during which the baby-boom generation entered their 50s -- the share of disabled worker benefits awarded to older workers (age 45 and older) rose from 67 percent to 76 percent," the report said.

Meanwhile, the share of benefits going to younger workers -- between the ages of 25 to 44 -- fell from 31 percent to 22 percent.

"Baby boomers' aging would have boosted enrollment in the DI program even if no other factors had changed," the report said.

Add to that the fact that more women have entered the workforce since 1970, boosting the working population and creating a larger pool of people who can become disabled.

A change in the law during the Reagan administration that allowed more people with mental disabilities and musculoskeletal problems to qualify also increased the number of people on disability. In 1990, such people accounted for 38 percent of workers in the SSDI program. In 2010, the number had risen to 54 percent."
 

your "post" doesn't refute a thing he said....

SO, the debt will be paid down by WHOM?

Social programs are not the cause of the debt held by the public. And Social Security has helped lower the deficit.

Plus his figures on federal taxes are wrong, typical of the right.

Disability is up due to demographics.

Social Security Disability Enrollment Rising Due To Demographic Trends: CBO

CBO - Policy Options for the Social Security Disability Insurance Program
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43421-DisabilityInsurance_screen.pdf

"The study, by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, found that the biggest jumps in the disabled population came from aging Baby Boomers. From 1996 through 2009 -- "the approximate period during which the baby-boom generation entered their 50s -- the share of disabled worker benefits awarded to older workers (age 45 and older) rose from 67 percent to 76 percent," the report said.

Meanwhile, the share of benefits going to younger workers -- between the ages of 25 to 44 -- fell from 31 percent to 22 percent.

"Baby boomers' aging would have boosted enrollment in the DI program even if no other factors had changed," the report said.

Add to that the fact that more women have entered the workforce since 1970, boosting the working population and creating a larger pool of people who can become disabled.

A change in the law during the Reagan administration that allowed more people with mental disabilities and musculoskeletal problems to qualify also increased the number of people on disability. In 1990, such people accounted for 38 percent of workers in the SSDI program. In 2010, the number had risen to 54 percent."

You still did not refute anything I said. Do you really not know who pays the debt? Where do you think government revenue comes from?
 
Last edited:
If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

your post makes zero sense, one one hand you post-

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.


then post the evils of tax cits, tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn, instead of handing it over to the feds to redistribute, so in effect you've contradicted yourself.

BUT in spite of that, you do know that the top quartiles pay more taxes in any comparative basis than they did in say 86, right? No you don't, so don't bother answering.






bfgrn posts whatever his handlers tell him to post. He has no brain of his own...

So says the pseudo geologist who doesn't comprehend the dangers of dumping garbage and waste in streams.
 
your post makes zero sense, one one hand you post-

If anyone is going to take away your children's and my children's money it's Republicans.


then post the evils of tax cits, tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn, instead of handing it over to the feds to redistribute, so in effect you've contradicted yourself.

BUT in spite of that, you do know that the top quartiles pay more taxes in any comparative basis than they did in say 86, right? No you don't, so don't bother answering.






bfgrn posts whatever his handlers tell him to post. He has no brain of his own...

So says the pseudo geologist who doesn't comprehend the dangers of dumping garbage and waste in streams.







I've spent nearly my whole career cleaning up messes of just that type little one. How does it feel to be a pseudo environmentalist who supported one of the most environmentally damaging programs ever foisted off on the American public? Do you realize that through your ignorant efforts you and your kind did more environmental damage in ten years with you ridiculous MTBE mandates than Big Oil has done in over 100 years?

You should be so proud of your accomplishments...............:cuckoo:
 

Forum List

Back
Top