Why do so many Atheist and Christians misunderstand what Hell really is ?

[Youwerecreated]

You keep repeating this, and it continues to make no sense. How many planets have we been able to study extensively? How much direct interaction has man had with anything outside even our own solar system?

Let me rephrase your point so you can, perhaps, see how ridiculous it is :
'The things needed to form life would have been scattered throughout the universe by the big bang. Now, this is believed to have happened billions of years ago, which means it's possible life could have sprung up and been wiped out on planets long before humanity came to be. Further, it is thought that there are 200 billion or more stars in the Milky Way galaxy. There are also estimates that 1 of every 200 stars has a planet in the so-called Goldilocks zone, the distance from the star which would be neither too hot nor too cold to sustain life as we know it. There may be hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe, many of which could have the same ratios of stars and planets our own does. We can only see the smallest fragment of the universe so far and we have not had direct interaction with any planets outside our solar system. Despite all of this, I have concluded that our not finding any other life is proof that both the big bang theory and abiogenesis are wrong.'

Let me try an analogy. You go to the beach and pick up a shell. Inside the shell is a crab. You then proceed to pick up all the shells within reach. You find no other crabs. There is five miles of beach in either direction, but you decide that since no other shell within reach had a crab in it, no other shell on the entire beach can have a crab.
Actually, it would be more along the lines of you concluding that no other shell on the planet can contain a crab, or ever has contained a crab.

If god created the universe and created life on this planet, why couldn't he have done so on other worlds? Why would he create such a vast universe but only put life on this one miniscule part of it?

Stop underestimating the vastness of the universe or overestimating mankind's ability to observe it.

Is there life out there yes or no ?

And there should have been life scattered throughout the universe why is it just on this little planet ?

What you just said was nothing but speculation nothing to prove anything you said.

Let me tell you why there is no life out there .no other planet is setup to sustain life like this one .The creator chose this one for a reason.

*sigh*
I have no idea if there is other life; that's the whole point. We have only seen a tiny, tiny, TINY portion of the universe. Even if life was scattered throughout the universe, because we can see so little of it, there could be life on billions of planets and we would have no way of knowing.

I wasn't attempting to prove there is life. I was trying to show you that assuming we would have seen life on other planets is foolish and completely ignores how limited our knowledge and observational capacity is.

How do you know no other planet is set up to sustain life? Does the bible tell you this? Aren't you both assuming you know the mind of god and putting extreme limits on his power to say that god did not put life elsewhere? First, if god created it all, could he not have created other planets like earth? Second, being all powerful, could he not create a form of life that would survive on planets that the life we know could not survive on?

If there is a god that created everything, I see no reason to assume that being only created life on this one planet of the possibly trillions or more planets in the universe. It strikes me as arrogant to think that way, actually; humanity is so important that god created this almost inconceivably vast universe to put humans on this one tiny planet.

I am quite curious to see the scriptures that show god did not create life elsewhere as well as the scriptures that show no other planet could sustain life.

We have to go by the evidence we have to make predictions there is no evidence to suggest there is a planet that could sustain life and or that there is life out there.

You have to have evidence to make predictions. If you make predictions without evidence by nature you will rush to conclusions to support your predictions on evidence uncovered. In other words you spin the evidence to fit your faulty presuppositions. That is not science being so reckless.

 

[geauxtohell]

I already answered this once.

All cells contain water. We are made up of approximately 60% water our brain 70%. So we have 4 billion cells containing water so it is reasonable to assume life began in water according to your theory.

One major problem for your side is that amino acids cannot form in water they are to soluble. So how did we get the building blocks of life in the water to create life ?

Intracellular fluid and extracellular fluid is not "water" anymore than plasma is water anymore than the ocean is "water". Surely in your studies you stumbled upon the notion of tonicity.

There is a reason IV fluids are crystalloids. If you ran straight water into someone, you blow every red cell in their body and kill them. If you ran a solution that had too many minerals, you shrink the into useless things.

Thtat's a long response to simply point out that life didn't begin in "water" and Miller and Urey's experiment in 1953 is a sufficient rebuttle to your silly assertion.

Under the right oxidation and reduction state and in the right medium, a catatlyst will cause amino acids to form.

Are you serious we are made up of water and every living cell contains water what the heck are you talking about?

Yes that is my point amino acids cannot form in water got it ?

Water is isotonic.

"We are made of water" demonstrates a 3rd grade understanding of the body. Like I said, if you ran straight water into an IV line, you would kill someone.

It's also a 3rd grade mentality to state that life came from "water".

Miller and Urey, who again conducted their experiement in 1953 - long before you got your coveted degree in biology, did create amino acids out of a water solution.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Molecular biology, huh?

You should know for FACT that we are genetically related to all chordata members.

And that abiogenesis is the theory you seem to be attacking, not evolution.

If you believe in something so much as it's seems you do you should be able to give an honest opinion on how human life come to be? You have yet to identify how the origins of the human species began
Animal vegetable mineral?

You might as well ignore the hick he won't give you a straight answer. He avoids questions that his textbook couldn't answer for him.

I posted some questions to him to corner him in ,watch the response I get from him.

Nothing of substance only rehtoric.

You base your entire life off nothing of substance but only rhetoric, rhetoric from a few thousand years ago.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Intracellular fluid and extracellular fluid is not "water" anymore than plasma is water anymore than the ocean is "water". Surely in your studies you stumbled upon the notion of tonicity.

There is a reason IV fluids are crystalloids. If you ran straight water into someone, you blow every red cell in their body and kill them. If you ran a solution that had too many minerals, you shrink the into useless things.

Thtat's a long response to simply point out that life didn't begin in "water" and Miller and Urey's experiment in 1953 is a sufficient rebuttle to your silly assertion.

Under the right oxidation and reduction state and in the right medium, a catatlyst will cause amino acids to form.

Are you serious we are made up of water and every living cell contains water what the heck are you talking about?

Yes that is my point amino acids cannot form in water got it ?

Water is isotonic.

"We are made of water" demonstrates a 3rd grade understanding of the body. Like I said, if you ran straight water into an IV line, you would kill someone.

It's also a 3rd grade mentality to state that life came from "water".

Miller and Urey, who again conducted their experiement in 1953 - long before you got your coveted degree in biology, did create amino acids out of a water solution.

If you don't get water in your system within three days you will die, your body will start to break down, your internal systems will start to fail and you will die.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

If you believe in something so much as it's seems you do you should be able to give an honest opinion on how human life come to be? You have yet to identify how the origins of the human species began
Animal vegetable mineral?

You might as well ignore the hick he won't give you a straight answer. He avoids questions that his textbook couldn't answer for him.

I posted some questions to him to corner him in ,watch the response I get from him.

Nothing of substance only rehtoric.

You base your entire life off nothing of substance but only rhetoric, rhetoric from a few thousand years ago.

You are basing your belief in that human life came from nothing, to believe that Human life was created is believing in something., I wished I had the faith you have in nothing.

 

[geauxtohell]

You are claiming Human life came from nothing if you advocate evolution.

Wrong. Again, you demonstrate that you don't understand what you are arguing against. You certainly don't have the power of fiatt on this matter, and with your piss-poor grasp on the matter you are left with little options then to make decrees.

Don't think you are going to persuade me with such crap. I know better.

I don't pretend to know where matter comes from. It's not essential to the theory of evolution any more then it's essential to any other theory or believing that we even exist.

 

[geauxtohell]

Well tell me smart ass were did evolution come up with the human sperm cell and human egg to separate the human species from the animal species?

Every species has distinct gametes. It's part of what limits the concept of species. Why are humans so special? I could waste my time and explain it to you, but you'll just ignore it. So, pick up a biology book. You aren't asking any questions that haven't already been asked and addressed by better minds then yours.

Furthermore, why get hung up on sperm and eggs? The underlying issue is, and always has, been DNA.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You are claiming Human life came from nothing if you advocate evolution.

Wrong. Again, you demonstrate that you don't understand what you are arguing against. You certainly don't have the power of fiatt on this matter, and with your piss-poor grasp on the matter you are left with little options then to make decrees.

Don't think you are going to persuade me with such crap. I know better.

I don't pretend to know where matter comes from. It's not essential to the theory of evolution any more then it's essential to any other theory or believing that we even exist.

So where did human life come from? What is the origin of human life
Animal vegetable minerial?

 

[Dr.Drock]

You might as well ignore the hick he won't give you a straight answer. He avoids questions that his textbook couldn't answer for him.

I posted some questions to him to corner him in ,watch the response I get from him.

Nothing of substance only rehtoric.

You base your entire life off nothing of substance but only rhetoric, rhetoric from a few thousand years ago.

You are basing your belief in that human life came from nothing, to believe that Human life was created is believing in something., I wished I had the faith you have in nothing.

How many times can you repeat that lie in one thread?

You're a lot closer to believing human life came from nothing than I am. Isn't that your entire belief? That God just poofed humans into existence from nothing but a swipe of his wand?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well tell me smart ass were did evolution come up with the human sperm cell and human egg to separate the human species from the animal species?

Every species has distinct gametes. It's part of what limits the concept of species. Why are humans so special? I could waste my time and explain it to you, but you'll just ignore it. So, pick up a biology book. You aren't asking any questions that haven't already been asked and addressed by better minds then yours.

Furthermore, why get hung up on sperm and eggs? The underlying issue is, and always has, been DNA.

Furthermore, why get hung up on sperm and eggs? The underlying issue is, and always has, been DNA

It's those little things that make the big things happen. You can't have human life without a human sperm cell or Human egg, unless their's a creator that created human life in the first place.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You base your entire life off nothing of substance but only rhetoric, rhetoric from a few thousand years ago.

You are basing your belief in that human life came from nothing, to believe that Human life was created is believing in something., I wished I had the faith you have in nothing.

How many times can you repeat that lie in one thread?

You're a lot closer to believing human life came from nothing than I am. Isn't that your entire belief? That God just poofed humans into existence from nothing but a swipe of his wand?

God isn't nothing God would be a fixed point in the equation. But what you believe in is that life just by chance happened and what we have today was the end effect of that reaction. The human body alone is so complexed that it can never support your argument without the mention of a creator. Then you have millions of other life from on earth that by a mere chance came to be, now to believe in that takes great faith.

 

[geauxtohell]

Well i'm sorry but it is a fact,i suffered an Ischemic stroke due to having a hole in my heart I had a patent foramen ovale performed.

So you threw a clot that paradoxically went from your venous system and into your system\ic circulation via the PFO and then into your brain and not your lungs, intestines, or an extremity.

I am sorry for your troubles. It's bad luck that the clot went to your brain (but not uncommon since those arteries are the first exit off of the aorta) and not somewhere else that wouldn't have caused neurological deficits. I don't see how it's relevant to discussing this topic at hand. Furthermore, I've watched you argue against evolution for at least 6 months. You are saying essentially the same things.

I don't know what degree of "memory loss" you had. If you hadn't informed us you had a stroke, I wouldn't have ever known.

Good luck with the rehabilitation process.

These are the effects i deal with on a daily basis.

slurred speech,loss of balance, confusion and memory loss.

So can you be more specific about what is beyond the scope of man to know ?

If God exists and if he had a hand in our creation and development. It involves the supernatural and thus is an article of faith.

 

[geauxtohell]

I guess you missed my point of this thread. I cannot prove what happens at death. I am a man of faith so I believe in what's written in the scriptures. I was merely pointing out what the scriptures say about Hell and death. I was setting the record straight. Because so many Christians have been taught something that is not in line with the scriptures.

Then why would you presume to lectures others on what does and does not happen after death?

You seem like a bright guy or girl,why do I need to explain this twice to you. I said that hell is the grave and used scripture to back my claim, at death life is over until you're resurrected,that is what the bible teaches. Do I believe the bible, yes I do. Can I prove there is no life after death no, I am simply pointing out what the scriptures say,got it ?

This is a little humerous. On the one hand you say you cannot prove what happens at death and then you claim you can indeed prove it based on your reading of the scriptures.

Did it occur to you that other people have read ther scriptures and have developed their own beliefs on what happens at the end of the world?

Either way, it's an article of faith.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well i'm sorry but it is a fact,i suffered an Ischemic stroke due to having a hole in my heart I had a patent foramen ovale performed.

So you threw a clot that paradoxically went from your venous system and into your system\ic circulation via the PFO and then into your brain and not your lungs, intestines, or an extremity.

I am sorry for your troubles. It's bad luck that the clot went to your brain (but not uncommon since those arteries are the first exit off of the aorta) and not somewhere else that wouldn't have caused neurological deficits. I don't see how it's relevant to discussing this topic at hand. Furthermore, I've watched you argue against evolution for at least 6 months. You are saying essentially the same things.

I don't know what degree of "memory loss" you had. If you hadn't informed us you had a stroke, I wouldn't have ever known.

Good luck with the rehabilitation process.

These are the effects i deal with on a daily basis.

slurred speech,loss of balance, confusion and memory loss.

So can you be more specific about what is beyond the scope of man to know ?

If God exists and if he had a hand in our creation and development. It involves the supernatural and thus is an article of faith.

If God exists and if he had a hand in our creation and development. It involves the supernatural and thus is an article of faith.

It would take more faith to believe that human life came from nothing than to believe in a creator.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yes,and i did work in the field for many years and have spoken about it extensively in threads in this forum. If you knew of me speaking of my stroke why didn't you know of me speaking of my experiences ?

I knew of you speaking of your stroke because you referenced it repeatedly in the past 100 posts.

I tend to remember things about people, I have no idea why your bachelors degree didn't stick in my mind. I don't say this to be a jerk, but it's likely that I don't put a lot of weight on a bachelor's degree. I certainly don't think it makes a person an "expert". As I said, I have a bachelor's degree in Business Finance and I can't tell you a damn thing about the market.

I am relatively nonplused by your bachelor's degree. In academia, doctoral degrees are where "expertise" begins.

When you work in the field and and are constantly reading material to keep up to date on issues does that qualify me to speak on this issue ?

It's not a question of "qualification". On this forum, an account means you can speak about anything. What it does not make you is an "expert" and it certainly doesn't give you the latitude to beat people about the head and neck with your degree. You have an opinion. That's it.

 

[Dr.Drock]

You are basing your belief in that human life came from nothing, to believe that Human life was created is believing in something., I wished I had the faith you have in nothing.

How many times can you repeat that lie in one thread?

You're a lot closer to believing human life came from nothing than I am. Isn't that your entire belief? That God just poofed humans into existence from nothing but a swipe of his wand?

God isn't nothing God would be a fixed point in the equation. But what you believe in is that life just by chance happened and what we have today was the end effect of that reaction. The human body alone is so complexed that it can never support your argument without the mention of a creator. Then you have millions of other life from on earth that by a mere chance came to be, now to believe in that takes great faith.

What about a space shuttle? The control room with all the computers to make it work? All the equipment in space to keep things working?

That's complex as hell, did man make all that or was it another one of God's magic wand waving?

Something being complex isn't proof of a god, sorry.

The better argument is god is real cuz i say so, rather than saying god is real cuz things are complex.

 

[geauxtohell]

Of course i don't know so that shows the test was pointless.

Yes and they were only on this planet after the so called big bang. The big bang would have scattered all the things needed for life throughout the universe but we see it only on this one little planet why ?

That's just an asinine cop out. You could extend it to say: "We don't know where we came from, so our very existence is in doubt...."

Yet, you responded to another poster: "Hit your hand with a hammer and get back to me" when they pointed that out.

If we severed the three nerves that provide sensory innervation to the hand, you could beat your hand to a pulp, stick it over a fire, or cut it in half and never feel a thing. This is why diabetics get ulcers on their feet and don't even know it.

Does that mean they don't exist?

Of course not. Instead, you simply using a large question mark to attack another unrelated theory in order to muddy the waters and thus ignore the real issues behind evolution.

Here educate yourself.

101 - The Earth In Time And Space - Amazing Discoveries TV

Bias is the antithesis of scientific thought and experimentation.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yes that is life begetting life, oops, And you're saying non-life is begetting life.

And there are many Christians who believe God is gonna torture people forever so what,when it's clear in the scriptures that is not the case.

Define "life".

 

[Youwerecreated]

Does this have anything to do with evolution or not ?

I already answered this once.

All cells contain water. We are made up of approximately 60% water our brain 70%. So we have 4 billion cells containing water so it is reasonable to assume life began in water according to your theory.

One major problem for your side is that amino acids cannot form in water they are to soluble. So how did we get the building blocks of life in the water to create life ?

Intracellular fluid and extracellular fluid is not "water" anymore than plasma is water anymore than the ocean is "water". Surely in your studies you stumbled upon the notion of tonicity.

There is a reason IV fluids are crystalloids. If you ran straight water into someone, you blow every red cell in their body and kill them. If you ran a solution that had too many minerals, you shrink the into useless things.

Thtat's a long response to simply point out that life didn't begin in "water" and Miller and Urey's experiment in 1953 is a sufficient rebuttle to your silly assertion.

Under the right oxidation and reduction state and in the right medium, a catatlyst will cause amino acids to form.

Here are the problems for your miller urey experiment.

The Miller-Urey experiment

 

[geauxtohell]

God would be something, God would be life, so you have life coming from life. Something from something equals something. evolution nothing into something.

And the crux of the cognitive dissonance.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. It's just not a "sceintific theory" and thus doesn't compete with evolution in the scientific world.

And that's about as complicated as it needs to be, despite you guys doing your best to make the issue much more complicated then it needs to be.