Why do the God-haters persist?

[thebrucebeat]

Also interesting is the fact that atheists/agnostics rail against Christians and Christianity almost exclusively but have almost nothing to say about Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, or Judaism. I conclude that there must be a lot of power in the name of Jesus Christ. He must be seen as a greater threat to their worldview than all other religions combined. It certainly make ya wonder.

None of those other faith traditions are trying to influence American policy. None of them are a threat to the people who live in this country and come on these boards that do not share this dominant faith tradition.
It has nothing to do with the "power in the name of Jesus Christ", but rather the defense of liberty of the people who find that concept unsupportable. Hindus don't threaten that in any way.

It's somehow wrong for Christians to want to influence their surroundings and liberties but it's okay for atheists/agnostics to exercise influence? Can you produce a logical avenue that led you to that conclusion? It sounds like you have something against moral standards and would like to see them eliminated. Care to share anything with us?

But Eastern, religious philosophy does attempt to affect the public psyche here in the states. Everywhere we see the yin/yang symbol. It's hidden on packaging or, in some cases, not so hidden. I'm guessing that you know what the yin/yang represents.

It isn't atheism that is being promoted.
It is secularism.
That means our laws stay out of the discussion. You can be as devout as you want and leave others alone not to be if that is what they want.
No one is promoting the enforcement of atheism as a required paradigm. That is just silly. No one is promoting duality as represented by the ying/yang symbol as a government decree. What businesses do on their packaging is irrelevant. You can have a crucifix displayed on your Wheaties box and get not the first objection from anyone. Put behind the speakers chair in the Senate and their is a problem.
You really don't understand these distinctions?

 

[MrMax]

a) Many creation scientists believe that prior to the flood there was water canopy or cloud that surrounded the entire earth keeping the temperatures mild worldwide. The canopy filtered the sun's rays while equalizing temperatures. There was no particular region that was more suited to one animal over another. Mammoths have been found in today's arctic regions with buttercups in their mouths. That indicates two things: 1) They died quickly while they were chewing food and 2) the arctic regions were warm enough to sustain the buttercup which requires a warmer climate. The canopy of water held in the clouds above the earth were released and caused the flood.

b) It is quite possible that all the animals that entered the arc were within a fairly close proximity to the arc. Most were probably brought onto the arc in a state of infancy or at least very young requiring less food. Also, we know that many animals are able to hibernate. It's quite plausible to believe that the animals on the arc went into hibernation or semi-hibernation thus requiring less food.

c) I happen to believe in micro-evolution. That is to say that I believe a particular species can adapt to a particular climate or environment. It's quite possible that only one particular type of bear was brought onto the arc. After the flood, they reproduced and spread across the landscape. Each subsequent generation of bear adapted to it's particular environment as a means of survival. Polar bears are white because they live in an environment that requires them to be white so as to not be seen by potential prey.

a) No proof whatsoever. Completely made up.
b) So no animals came from say, Australia? And how did animals get to Australia afterwards? And how come there are animals in Australia that we find nowhere else?
c) You're a heretic and could be excommunicated for believing in evolution. And you're already bordering on not even being a Christian to start with for holding such views.

a) Really? You were there?
b) Not necessarily. Australia is where post-flood animals eventually went to. Prior to the flood there likely wasn't enough water to separate the world's land mass so there likely was no Australia.
c) I don't belong to an organized religion so excommunication from any particular organized church likely occurred a long, long time ago. Remember, there is a different between "micro" evolution and "macro" evolution. I totally reject the latter.

a) the burden of proof lies with the person who makes the claim.
b) no proof whatsoever.
c) you believe in one form of evolution, you're halfway home!

 

[Hollie]

And yet ... here you are after your "initial" purpose for coming here was satisfied.

I did say "And funny". A classic would be Boss who said that we're all born with the ability to do magic tricks!
And I'm still trying to get an answer for how Noah got polar bears to his ark and back again. And did he really have millions of species on his boat with food for everyone for 40 days? With only 6 people to shovel all the shit?

I'm certain that you've quoted Boss in context -- right? You couldn't possibility one of those individuals that twists the words of others as a means to ridicule.

I think there is already a thread concerning Noah and his ark. But I'll bite.

a) Many creation scientists believe that prior to the flood there was water canopy or cloud that surrounded the entire earth keeping the temperatures mild worldwide. The canopy filtered the sun's rays while equalizing temperatures. There was no particular region that was more suited to one animal over another. Mammoths have been found in today's arctic regions with buttercups in their mouths. That indicates two things: 1) They died quickly while they were chewing food and 2) the arctic regions were warm enough to sustain the buttercup which requires a warmer climate. The canopy of water held in the clouds above the earth were released and caused the flood.

b) It is quite possible that all the animals that entered the arc were within a fairly close proximity to the arc. Most were probably brought onto the arc in a state of infancy or at least very young requiring less food. Also, we know that many animals are able to hibernate. It's quite plausible to believe that the animals on the arc went into hibernation or semi-hibernation thus requiring less food.

c) I happen to believe in micro-evolution. That is to say that I believe a particular species can adapt to a particular climate or environment. It's quite possible that only one particular type of bear was brought onto the arc. After the flood, they reproduced and spread across the landscape. Each subsequent generation of bear adapted to it's particular environment as a means of survival. Polar bears are white because they live in an environment that requires them to be white so as to not be seen by potential prey.

If you want flood tales, there is no shortage.

Flood Stories from Around the World

 

[Hollie]

b) It is quite possible that all the animals that entered the arc were within a fairly close proximity to the arc. Most were probably brought onto the arc in a state of infancy or at least very young requiring less food. Also, we know that many animals are able to hibernate. It's quite plausible to believe that the animals on the arc went into hibernation or semi-hibernation thus requiring less food.

We're doomed. In the longer term, the US will slip away as a nation that competes in a technical world.

 

[koshergrl]

Our country wasn't built on secularism, and there are no laws that prevent us from discussing religion. And if there ever are, our country is doomed.

Sorry.

 

[jillian]

Our country wasn't built on secularism, and there are no laws that prevent us from discussing religion. And if there ever are, our country is doomed.

Sorry.

nonsense.

 

[orogenicman]

b) It is quite possible that all the animals that entered the arc were within a fairly close proximity to the arc. Most were probably brought onto the arc in a state of infancy or at least very young requiring less food. Also, we know that many animals are able to hibernate. It's quite plausible to believe that the animals on the arc went into hibernation or semi-hibernation thus requiring less food.

We're doomed. In the longer term, the US will slip away as a nation that competes in a technical world.

Yes I know. Christians call it the apocalypse. I think bringing on the downfall of the U.S. must be part of their master plan.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Our country wasn't built on secularism, and there are no laws that prevent us from discussing religion. And if there ever are, our country is doomed.

Sorry.

The First Amendment protects that right for you. All of us on these threads are exercising that right.
It is also the amendment that defines us as a secular country.
It doesn't define us as an atheist country.
There is a difference.

 

[BreezeWood]

I started this thread to explain the psychology behind why certain people lie about their supposed "Atheism" in order to attack those who believe in God. I.

OP: Why do the God-haters persist?

We see them here everyday, interjecting their hate-filled insultuous attacks on the religious, mocking and ridiculing to a bizarre extreme, anything and everything to do with God.

DriftingSand: It's somehow wrong for Christians to want to influence their surroundings and liberties but it's okay for atheists/agnostics to exercise influence? Can you produce a logical avenue that led you to that conclusion? It sounds like you have something against moral standards and would like to see them eliminated. Care to share anything with us?

Why do the God-haters persist? ... in order to attack those who believe in God ... It sounds like you have something against moral standards.


who is attacking who ??? - - - > (It sounds like you have something against moral standards.)


where have either of the above shown evidence that anyone has ever "Hated" God ?

* rather than flawed beliefs as the subject matter of the discussion.

.

 

[HUGGY]

Why do the God-haters persist?

Clean living

Diet

Pacing for endurance

 

[Gadawg73]

Our country wasn't built on secularism, and there are no laws that prevent us from discussing religion. And if there ever are, our country is doomed.

Sorry.

The crown monarch ruled over the common man based on the principle of divine right which was that the right of rule derives from God. At the time this country was starting the revolution every European state and country, including England, was run by that doctrine of divine right where kings and queens have a GOD given right TO RULE and any and all rebellion against them IS A SIN.
This is how this colony was run before the revolution and it was BASED on RELIGION and religious beliefs of divine right. The church directly influenced through religion every colony of England and all of Europe.
And the Founders of this great nation wanted NO PART of that shit and made damn sure that THE LAW of this country would be formed WITHOUT God or religion influencing it in any way.
Anyone that does not know this is stupid, ignorant or both. Any and all claims that this nation was founded on "Christian principles" are absurd. Just the opposite. The top Christian principle that directly affected the Founders was the religious principle of divine right.
They opposed that as indicated in The United States Constitution.
We immediately went from religion dominating government to NO religion in government.
To deny that is secularism is fraud.

 

[Boss]

I don’t see anyone necessarily trying to change your mind about your “feelings”. The issue is your insistence that some supernatural force is extant and real.

Further, I think you’re making a break from “reasoning” with the more “feelings” based tenets of Religion and superstition. Feelings are the least reliable way to make a solid decision. I would hope that you do not make decisions that affect you or your family based upon “feelings” but with comparative analysis, risk/reward and probable outcome. If something feels good, investigate it objectively. See if the good feelings are substantiated. You function with your critical faculties on an ongoing basis, and while you can misinterpret some sensory input, rationality adheres to parameters that are testable.

Here’s a little experiment you can try at home. In your diatribe above, try substituting spiritual nature™ with “The Easter Bunny”. See if your comment still makes sense.
Here, I’ve some you homework for you:

But you see, I DO know [(The Easter Bunny –ed.)]! I feel [(The Easter Bunny –ed.)] around me and communicate with [(The Easter Bunny –ed.)] daily.

Here's the thing, Hollie... What is "real" to you are things you can physically confirm with your five limited senses, or what secular godless scientists tell you they believe. You have no capacity to comprehend any other sort of reality or existence. Under that conception, you simply can't find evidence for God or the Spiritual, and you probably never will. Unless your atheistic science people tell you they've confirmed God's existence, you aren't likely to ever believe it.

Now, with this understanding firmly set in your mind, you can't rationalize why so many people claim a belief in something they can't "prove" to you. This prompts you to ridicule them and scoff at their notions of God being "real" or "existing" because of your narrow understanding of what is real and what exists. It's not your fault and it's not their fault, it's just how things are.

The Easter Bunny is a fairly recent man-made invention. It stems from a 17th century German tradition, and interestingly enough, has some religious tie-ins. Hares and rabbits were thought to be animals who could reproduce without sexual intercourse, thus likened to the Virgin Mary, and often depicted in ancient religious art. Eggs were often the food of choice to be given up for Lent, and the only way to prevent them from spoiling (chickens don't stop laying for Lent) was to boil them. The American commercialization began around 1946, when "The Easter Bunny" began visiting department stores and such.

Of course, this is quite different than the Spiritual Force humans have connected with since we became civilized creatures. That force has been the catalyst and inspiration for all of human advancement and humanities and our ability to connect with it, remains our most defining attribute as a species. While it is not "real" or "existing" in a physical sense, untold billions of humans, maybe even trillions, have professed a profound faith in the belief that it certainly is real and does exist in a spiritual sense. You can't comprehend spiritual existence or reality, so you can't accept it.

fewer and fewer scientists invest in the unknowable.

Scientists have never invested in the unknowable, dimwit! That was the point of my comment in red. You're about as stupid as a fucking turnip, to be honest. No wonder you need to resort to lying and manipulating to make it look like you're winning an argument.

Science cannot test, observe or falsify the unknowable... so it sure as hell isn't invested in it! No scientist has EVER invested in the unknowable, so where you get this "fewer and fewer" crap is beyond me. Science only invests in what is observable, testable and falsifiable, which makes it very much KNOWABLE and the opposite of unknowable.

And what the living hell does "unknowable" have to do with GOD? Do you think God is unknowable? I hate to tell you this and break your little God-hating heart, but BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of human beings totally disagree with you! God may be "unknowable" to YOU, but Newsflash: YOU AIN'T EVERYBODY!

what was that about this being a Level 2 discussion again?
And again (the bolded part)..

As for you last para about God being unknowable, of course god is unknowable. There is absolutely no evidence of a god existing....zilch, nada, nothing. Just belief. As for billions believing, they are getting less and less everyday. Almost every human being thought that the sun revolved around the earth. How did that work out? They also thought thunder was caused by angry gods. Again, how did that work out? Your argument is both asinine and superfluous at best...

Level 2 forum rules are pretty clear, they say you can post flames and insults but your post has to also contain topic-relative content. My post conforms to Level 2 rules.

God is certainly not unknowable and there are literally billions of people who would be more than happy to give their testimonials to that. People come to know God every day. I agree there is no "physical" evidence of a God "physically" existing. (See my response to Hollie above.)

As much as you may believe "they are getting less and less every day" this is simply not true. Humans are spiritual by nature and always have been. Generally speaking, about 95% of the species believes in something greater than self, and 5% believe in nothing (Nihilists). Atheists account for maybe 15%, but as I've argued, there are "Atheists" who are bigger believers in God than some Christians. People lie about this all the time. Times change, religions come and go, people move away and back toward spiritual faith, but over the course of human history, we have remained largely spiritual creatures. This isn't something in "rapid decline" as you like to believe.

People have thought all kinds of things. We base our views largely on what our five limited senses can confirm, as I said before. When we see the sun rise in the East and set in the West, it appears the sun goes around the Earth. Interestingly, this was actually considered "science" at one time, as opposed to the "spiritual" belief that God rose the Sun, moved it across the sky, and laid it to rest in the evening. But... Science can be completely wrong just like Religion.

All that said, do you know why the physical properties of the universe cause there to be a sound made when thunder happens? I'm not asking you to explain how it happens, I am asking why it happens. It's caused by friction from lightning, but why does friction from lightning create an experience of sound that we can detect with one of our five senses? Again, I understand HOW sound is produced, save the explanation there, I want to know WHY it happens. Why does lightning happen? Why do some atoms become electrically charged while others do not? Keep the focus on WHY and not HOW. You see, there is a lot you can't really explain. Principles in physics are things we can comprehend and understand, but we don't comprehend why they function predictably as they do in an otherwise chaotic and random universe. Food for thought.

 

[Dr Grump]

Level 2 forum rules are pretty clear, they say you can post flames and insults but your post has to also contain topic-relative content. My post conforms to Level 2 rules.

God is certainly not unknowable and there are literally billions of people who would be more than happy to give their testimonials to that. People come to know God every day. I agree there is no "physical" evidence of a God "physically" existing. (See my response to Hollie above.)

As much as you may believe "they are getting less and less every day" this is simply not true. Humans are spiritual by nature and always have been. Generally speaking, about 95% of the species believes in something greater than self, and 5% believe in nothing (Nihilists). Atheists account for maybe 15%, but as I've argued, there are "Atheists" who are bigger believers in God than some Christians. People lie about this all the time. Times change, religions come and go, people move away and back toward spiritual faith, but over the course of human history, we have remained largely spiritual creatures. This isn't something in "rapid decline" as you like to believe.

People have thought all kinds of things. We base our views largely on what our five limited senses can confirm, as I said before. When we see the sun rise in the East and set in the West, it appears the sun goes around the Earth. Interestingly, this was actually considered "science" at one time, as opposed to the "spiritual" belief that God rose the Sun, moved it across the sky, and laid it to rest in the evening. But... Science can be completely wrong just like Religion.

All that said, do you know why the physical properties of the universe cause there to be a sound made when thunder happens? I'm not asking you to explain how it happens, I am asking why it happens. It's caused by friction from lightning, but why does friction from lightning create an experience of sound that we can detect with one of our five senses? Again, I understand HOW sound is produced, save the explanation there, I want to know WHY it happens. Why does lightning happen? Why do some atoms become electrically charged while others do not? Keep the focus on WHY and not HOW. You see, there is a lot you can't really explain. Principles in physics are things we can comprehend and understand, but we don't comprehend why they function predictably as they do in an otherwise chaotic and random universe. Food for thought.

I know the rules re Level 2 but you appeared to be having a go at people playing the man not the ball, thus my input.

Actually it is true. The percentage of human beings believing in a supernatural god is getting less and less as time goes on - especially those that are educated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Studies_and_statistics

The why? Who cares why. It happens. You think a god does it? Allows some atoms to charge and not others? To which I also say "why does he do that?"

 

[Boss]

I know the rules re Level 2 but you appeared to be having a go at people playing the man not the ball, thus my input.

Actually it is true. The percentage of human beings believing in a supernatural god is getting less and less as time goes on - especially those that are educated. Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The why? Who cares why. It happens. You think a god does it? Allows some atoms to charge and not others? To which I also say "why does he do that?"

Again, "having a go" at people is perfectly acceptable in Level 2, as long as your post contains topic-related content as well. My complaint was about someone who wasn't abiding by the rules of Level 2 forums.

Actually, your link is more disconcerting than my assertion. It says 2% are Atheists and 9% are non-religious, where I gave you a modest 15% for just Atheists. I couldn't find anything that stated belief in God was in some kind of "rapid decline" as was indicated. As I pointed out, there have always been fluctuating periods throughout human history, times where more people were spiritual or spirituality declined. However, humans have always been predominately and overwhelmingly spiritual. There has never been any point in human history where this was not the case.

Who cares why? Well, I do! That's why I asked you the question. Yes, I believe the Spiritual Force which I identify as "God" is the force which makes all of this reality we experience "happen" or at least, our perception of it. God makes physics work, principles of math function predictably, bestows logic and order to the universe, created life, etc. HOW he did it, maybe we can discover through Science and maybe not? WHY he did it? I have no idea.

 

[Dr Grump]

I know the rules re Level 2 but you appeared to be having a go at people playing the man not the ball, thus my input.

Actually it is true. The percentage of human beings believing in a supernatural god is getting less and less as time goes on - especially those that are educated. Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The why? Who cares why. It happens. You think a god does it? Allows some atoms to charge and not others? To which I also say "why does he do that?"

Again, "having a go" at people is perfectly acceptable in Level 2, as long as your post contains topic-related content as well. My complaint was about someone who wasn't abiding by the rules of Level 2 forums.

Actually, your link is more disconcerting than my assertion. It says 2% are Atheists and 9% are non-religious, where I gave you a modest 15% for just Atheists. I couldn't find anything that stated belief in God was in some kind of "rapid decline" as was indicated. As I pointed out, there have always been fluctuating periods throughout human history, times where more people were spiritual or spirituality declined. However, humans have always been predominately and overwhelmingly spiritual. There has never been any point in human history where this was not the case.

Who cares why? Well, I do! That's why I asked you the question. Yes, I believe the Spiritual Force which I identify as "God" is the force which makes all of this reality we experience "happen" or at least, our perception of it. God makes physics work, principles of math function predictably, bestows logic and order to the universe, created life, etc. HOW he did it, maybe we can discover through Science and maybe not? WHY he did it? I have no idea.

I'd read the link more carefully....definitely shows a decline in god-fearing folk.

And there is the crux. You want me to explain 'why' something happens, while believing your 'theory' only takes an "I have no idea" cop out. Shrug...

Some super natural being just struts around doing stuff for no apparent reason? You couldn't make this shit up....

 

[Boss]

I know the rules re Level 2 but you appeared to be having a go at people playing the man not the ball, thus my input.

Actually it is true. The percentage of human beings believing in a supernatural god is getting less and less as time goes on - especially those that are educated. Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The why? Who cares why. It happens. You think a god does it? Allows some atoms to charge and not others? To which I also say "why does he do that?"

Again, "having a go" at people is perfectly acceptable in Level 2, as long as your post contains topic-related content as well. My complaint was about someone who wasn't abiding by the rules of Level 2 forums.

Actually, your link is more disconcerting than my assertion. It says 2% are Atheists and 9% are non-religious, where I gave you a modest 15% for just Atheists. I couldn't find anything that stated belief in God was in some kind of "rapid decline" as was indicated. As I pointed out, there have always been fluctuating periods throughout human history, times where more people were spiritual or spirituality declined. However, humans have always been predominately and overwhelmingly spiritual. There has never been any point in human history where this was not the case.

Who cares why? Well, I do! That's why I asked you the question. Yes, I believe the Spiritual Force which I identify as "God" is the force which makes all of this reality we experience "happen" or at least, our perception of it. God makes physics work, principles of math function predictably, bestows logic and order to the universe, created life, etc. HOW he did it, maybe we can discover through Science and maybe not? WHY he did it? I have no idea.

I'd read the link more carefully....definitely shows a decline in god-fearing folk.

And there is the crux. You want me to explain 'why' something happens, while believing your 'theory' only takes an "I have no idea" cop out. Shrug...

Some super natural being just struts around doing stuff for no apparent reason? You couldn't make this shit up....

LOL.. Well which is more reasoned? "I have no idea why shit happens, it just does!" OR "Something happened because an intelligent force made it happen and I don't know why!"

I read your link carefully, as I said, it started off by giving my "15% Atheists" claim a good ol' kick in the crotch, and asserts that there are only 2% Atheists, not 15%. It then goes on to explain how difficult it is to get actual results on legitimate numbers to formulate a statistic. I've already admitted that there have been periods of human history where spirituality declined and then resurged. Still, there has never been a time where more people were non-spiritual, and guess what? There never is going to be such a time because humans are intrinsically spiritual in nature. There may very well be a decline in spirituality at the moment, but let the next asteroid hit the planet and wipe out half of human civilization and see what happens! I'm betting belief in God makes a huge comeback in light of such an event. Nothing like a little turmoil and struggle to jolt humans back into a respect and appreciation for Spiritual Nature.

 

[koshergrl]

Numbers in the US are declining, as our schools and media work harder and harder to portray those of faith as stupid or extremist...

But Christianity world wide is increasing.

 

[koshergrl]

"... in 1900, there were approximately 10 million Christians in Africa. By 2000, there were 360 million. By 2025, conservative estimates see that number rising to 633 million. Those same estimates put the number of Christians in Latin America in 2025 at 640 million and in Asia at 460 million."

"
This story of Christianitys explosive growth is one of the great untold stories of our time -- a story that North American Christians need to hear.
Its a story that repudiates those who say that Christians must compromise their beliefs to remain relevant. The opposite is the case. Biblical orthodoxy is winning converts while churches that have lost their biblical moorings languish."


How Christianity is Growing Around the World

 

[koshergrl]

"
The five fastest growing religions in terms of absolute numbers (new adherents per year, in millions):
1. Christianity 25,210,195
2. Islam 22,588,676
3. Hinduism 12,533,734
4. Chinese folk-religions 3,715,548
5. Buddhism 3,687,527

The five fastest growing religions by conversions (new adherents per year, in millions):
1. Christianity 2,501,396
2. Islam 865,558
3. Buddhism 156,609
4. Sikhism 28,961
5. Baha'is 26,333

Fastest Growing Religion; Christianity

 

[orogenicman]

I know the rules re Level 2 but you appeared to be having a go at people playing the man not the ball, thus my input.

Actually it is true. The percentage of human beings believing in a supernatural god is getting less and less as time goes on - especially those that are educated. Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The why? Who cares why. It happens. You think a god does it? Allows some atoms to charge and not others? To which I also say "why does he do that?"

Again, "having a go" at people is perfectly acceptable in Level 2, as long as your post contains topic-related content as well. My complaint was about someone who wasn't abiding by the rules of Level 2 forums.

Actually, your link is more disconcerting than my assertion. It says 2% are Atheists and 9% are non-religious, where I gave you a modest 15% for just Atheists. I couldn't find anything that stated belief in God was in some kind of "rapid decline" as was indicated. As I pointed out, there have always been fluctuating periods throughout human history, times where more people were spiritual or spirituality declined. However, humans have always been predominately and overwhelmingly spiritual. There has never been any point in human history where this was not the case.

Who cares why? Well, I do! That's why I asked you the question. Yes, I believe the Spiritual Force which I identify as "God" is the force which makes all of this reality we experience "happen" or at least, our perception of it. God makes physics work, principles of math function predictably, bestows logic and order to the universe, created life, etc. HOW he did it, maybe we can discover through Science and maybe not? WHY he did it? I have no idea.

I'd read the link more carefully....definitely shows a decline in god-fearing folk.

And there is the crux. You want me to explain 'why' something happens, while believing your 'theory' only takes an "I have no idea" cop out. Shrug...

Some super natural being just struts around doing stuff for no apparent reason? You couldn't make this shit up....

Actually, I think he just did.