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Instead of criticizing each other for using atheism to mean contrary things,
why not spell out the choices for what it can mean to different people/contexts.
And go through the lists and AGREE which people are talking about which approach:
17 Kinds of Atheism
Behold, the six types of atheists ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
Just because people mean different things does not make one person right and others wrong.
God means different things in different religions, too.
God as Wisdom is different from God as Love or God as Creation.
Why not decide what we mean, and stick to those concepts, so there is no conflict or confusion by using one terms to mean too many different things?
C'mon guys, with the collective intelligence we have on here, let's use some of it!
It has been explained to you. You still cling desperately to your totally wrong ideas concerning what atheism is. Your learning imparement is unfortunate but it is YOUR problem. Try shutting your ignorant pie hole about atheists untill your pea brain gets it figured out.
Note: I'm searching for another list of types of atheism that someone else posted.
I thought there was a list of the equivalent of "different denominations" or degrees of atheism.
I found this, but it isn't the quote I was looking for: Something to think about. - Page 31 - Evil Empire Forums
"In practical, or pragmatic, atheism, also known as apatheism, individuals live as if there are no gods and explain natural phenomena without resorting to the divine.
The existence of gods is not denied, but may be designated unnecessary or useless; gods neither provide purpose to life, nor influence everyday life, according to this view.
Practical atheism can take various forms:
Absence of religious motivationbelief in gods does not motivate moral action, religious action, or any other form of action;
Active exclusion of the problem of gods and religion from intellectual pursuit and practical action;
Indifferencethe absence of any interest in the problems of gods and religion; or
Unawareness of the concept of a deity"
__________________
Nothing in your list of definitions supports your durrogatory opinions and conclusions concerning atheism.
Attempting to associate atheism and atheists with Hitler, Stalin, Communism...etc... is offensive.
If anything atheists are typically a-political and tend NOT to join groups especially any that would require some form of statement of allegience other than where it may concern the country.
Obviously I would find it more comfortable if we could drop the added god reference installed in 1955 to the pledge of allegience. It was added stupidly as a knee jerk reaction to the threat of communism. As if THAT would prevent a communist subversive from being a subversive.
As an ACTUAL conservative I have MORE right to disbelieve that which is NOT SUPPORTED by evidense than someone who CLAIMS they are a conservative believing in something without factual evidense.
You who CLAIM to believe in things with no evidense to support these things are by definition NOT conservative. You take "LIBERTIES" with reality therefore are at heart pure liberal at your cores.
In 1981 I bought 12 acres north of Atlanta in a rural community. The suburbs have now caught up with us. My neighbor is an atheist. I never knew until a few years after I met him. When there is someone is need in the neighborhood, there is a fallen tree across someone's driveway or whatever he is the first to help. Great guy.
So what if I do not agree with his religious beliefs or lack of them.
Jesus loves atheists too!
Nothing in your list of definitions supports your durrogatory opinions and conclusions concerning atheism.
Attempting to associate atheism and atheists with Hitler, Stalin, Communism...etc... is offensive.
If anything atheists are typically a-political and tend NOT to join groups especially any that would require some form of statement of allegience other than where it may concern the country.
Obviously I would find it more comfortable if we could drop the added god reference installed in 1955 to the pledge of allegience. It was added stupidly as a knee jerk reaction to the threat of communism. As if THAT would prevent a communist subversive from being a subversive.
As an ACTUAL conservative I have MORE right to disbelieve that which is NOT SUPPORTED by evidense than someone who CLAIMS they are a conservative believing in something without factual evidense.
You who CLAIM to believe in things with no evidense to support these things are by definition NOT conservative. You take "LIBERTIES" with reality therefore are at heart pure liberal at your cores.
Hey, if something had to create the earth, something had to create god. Who or what created god? You can't have it both ways. You can't say something MUST HAVE created us but nothing had to create god. So if you can fathom that god could have been created out of nothing, and you have zero proof there is even a godthen why can't you accept that you and the universe came from nothing? Or at least admit you don't know. That's the only real truth. We don't know.
A tad self serving?
And NOW that we have the means to RECORD voices your god is so conveniently absent?
What a remarkable co-incidense.
GET REAL!!! YOU JUST WANT TO LIVE IN YOUR LIFE OF SIN and hope GOD is not real,no matter if the bible said the earth is 15 billion years old you would just move to another fake excuse to try not to believe THUS YOUR TYPE PROVE THAT HELL IS THE ONLY RIGHT PLACE FOR YOU!!!
This is why religious people deny evolution:
The motivation for belief in a divine, salvational Jesus breaks down when you accept evolution: Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrineit destroys the foundation of the gospel. - Ken Ham
In 1981 I bought 12 acres north of Atlanta in a rural community. The suburbs have now caught up with us. My neighbor is an atheist. I never knew until a few years after I met him. When there is someone is need in the neighborhood, there is a fallen tree across someone's driveway or whatever he is the first to help. Great guy.
So what if I do not agree with his religious beliefs or lack of them.
Jesus loves atheists too!
Yes, it just makes sense to me that if Christians believe God's plan and will is in charge of all things, wouldn't it be part of God's plan and purpose to create people as atheists?
The Bible says that the Lord has authority over all authorities, and all things are created and work for God's purpose. So surely there is a good purpose for all the ways God has given and created for man to be in life. Jesus is supposed to govern all these ways.
No one can be left out of God's plan or will, or it isn't universal, all encompassing,
all powerful and all knowing. Just because we don't understand doesn't mean there isn't some higher positive purpose for every person of every religion and why God has those.
In 1981 I bought 12 acres north of Atlanta in a rural community. The suburbs have now caught up with us. My neighbor is an atheist. I never knew until a few years after I met him. When there is someone is need in the neighborhood, there is a fallen tree across someone's driveway or whatever he is the first to help. Great guy.
So what if I do not agree with his religious beliefs or lack of them.
Jesus loves atheists too!
Yes, it just makes sense to me that if Christians believe God's plan and will is in charge of all things, wouldn't it be part of God's plan and purpose to create people as atheists?
The Bible says that the Lord has authority over all authorities, and all things are created and work for God's purpose. So surely there is a good purpose for all the ways God has given and created for man to be in life. Jesus is supposed to govern all these ways.
No one can be left out of God's plan or will, or it isn't universal, all encompassing,
all powerful and all knowing. Just because we don't understand doesn't mean there isn't some higher positive purpose for every person of every religion and why God has those.
Just a few verses that reveal God's plan. You mentioned "Christians" in your post so I'm proposing a Christian point of view from the Christian text - the Bible:
Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen."
(Note in the following verse the "them" vs. God's "faithful." The "Lamb" is Jesus Christ)
Revelation 17:14, "They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
I agree that there is a "purpose" for non-believing, deniers of Christ. I believe that our time on earth is a time of testing ones faith. There will be many, many stumbling stones in our path but Christians are called to navigate around those stones and learn lessons as they go. Satan and his followers (deniers of Christ for the name "Satan" literally means "adversary") are just some of the stumbling stones by which Christians can strengthen their faith in Christ.
Here's a good indication of what I mean:
Matthew 5:10-12, "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."
God knows that there are men who deny Him and He knows that these folks will persecute His followers. In the above passage God is telling us to be prepared for such persecution and to remain faithful during said persecution.
But does God intend to bring all humans into His Heavenly fold? Not according to this next passage:
Matthew 13:38-43, "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
Yes, it just makes sense to me that if Christians believe God's plan and will is in charge of all things, wouldn't it be part of God's plan and purpose to create people as atheists?
The Bible says that the Lord has authority over all authorities, and all things are created and work for God's purpose. So surely there is a good purpose for all the ways God has given and created for man to be in life. Jesus is supposed to govern all these ways.
No one can be left out of God's plan or will, or it isn't universal, all encompassing,
all powerful and all knowing. Just because we don't understand doesn't mean there isn't some higher positive purpose for every person of every religion and why God has those.
Just a few verses that reveal God's plan. You mentioned "Christians" in your post so I'm proposing a Christian point of view from the Christian text - the Bible:
Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen."
(Note in the following verse the "them" vs. God's "faithful." The "Lamb" is Jesus Christ)
Revelation 17:14, "They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
I agree that there is a "purpose" for non-believing, deniers of Christ. I believe that our time on earth is a time of testing ones faith. There will be many, many stumbling stones in our path but Christians are called to navigate around those stones and learn lessons as they go. Satan and his followers (deniers of Christ for the name "Satan" literally means "adversary") are just some of the stumbling stones by which Christians can strengthen their faith in Christ.
Here's a good indication of what I mean:
Matthew 5:10-12, "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."
God knows that there are men who deny Him and He knows that these folks will persecute His followers. In the above passage God is telling us to be prepared for such persecution and to remain faithful during said persecution.
But does God intend to bring all humans into His Heavenly fold? Not according to this next passage:
Matthew 13:38-43, "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
YES!!! THE ONLY PLACE IN ETERNITY FOR any and all evil is HELL.
GET REAL!!! YOU JUST WANT TO LIVE IN YOUR LIFE OF SIN and hope GOD is not real,no matter if the bible said the earth is 15 billion years old you would just move to another fake excuse to try not to believe THUS YOUR TYPE PROVE THAT HELL IS THE ONLY RIGHT PLACE FOR YOU!!!
This is why religious people deny evolution:
The motivation for belief in a divine, salvational Jesus breaks down when you accept evolution: Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrineit destroys the foundation of the gospel. - Ken Ham
Ken has it right. That's the slippery slope of religious dogma. Once anyone begins to subdivide the bibles into the "yeah, that's absolutely true" parts from the "well, that's kinda' true", parts, it becomes a convoluted mess of contradictory suppositions and personal preferences.
Religious dogma has a goal that cannot be swayed, and that is to bolster your faith -- not your knowledge, because knowledge and faith are different. True knowledge would be for you to contemplate, with objectivity, countering proposals. Knowledge is not asked for in the salvation paradigm, unquestioning faith is. There is an underlying misology (hatred of knowledge) in the bibleknowledge of good and evil is the original sin, after all. Before they sinned, A & E were ignorant. Knowledge to god is sin-- because knowledge would preclude faith. According to the paradigm, god prefers unquestioning belief, but will allow you to choose knowledge. The price of which is eternal hell of course.
So, back to the convoluted mess.
I don't believe christian fundamentalists are conservative. They stole that name just as they did the republican party so they would have a platform to lie from and project the christian political agenda. You are correct that the "new christofascistconservatives" will do and say anything to get votes. Allowing the religists into the power structure of the republican party was the dumbest thing they could have done for the party and the most dangerous thing for the country. As it turns out they are nothing less than political terrorists. Dwight Eisenhower and Barry Goldwater are rolling over in their graves.
Note how Bush was told by god to invade Iraq and then he and Cheney conspired to blame 9/11 0n the Iraqis and worked tirelessly to make the country believe that WE HAD TO INVADE and NOW they work just as hard blaming the dems that THEY also voted to support invasion as if the dems came up with the idea and were behind it all along.
Yep. The religious right wants to legislate morality along the lines of fundamentalist Christian precepts but fortunately, are less coalesced now as they were during the years of the rabid Bushites. I'd be way more concerned with the Southern Baptist voter block than with the <snicker> Communist party or the Nazis. C'mon, you add up all the lunatic leftists and they are a tiny block of people. You add up the religious right and you get in a legislative block which is a shill for Falwell and Robertson, who wanted to push through a moronic, ill thought out and totally unconstitutional give-away called the Faith Initiative. Anyone remember the Bushite "Faith Initiative"?
In my opinion, Bush screwed the pooch right out of the gate with that stupid faith initiative -- showing himself to be a shill for the religious right (I love that there was outrage at Nation of Islam demanding their slice -- and Christians pissed at Wiccans wanting theirs-- each group does community service work and therefore deserved a slice.). His administration was dull and trying to drum up issues based on his perception of morality and so on, and not having a clue at the consequences of such morality-pushing showed me he was fairly naive about the very Constitution he swore to uphold.
My concern is not only did bush pass a bunch of laws for the religious right, currently all over the country states with GOP run legislatures are passing not only anti abortion laws but pro gun, pro ALEC, pro corporation, heck even in Michigan a blue state Snyder made us a right to work state. The woman running here for the GOP Terry Lynn Land would ban abortion even in cases of rape or incest.
And dumb poor/middle class independents and democrats only vote every 4 years. And a lot of them vote against themselves because of god gays guns and racism. So the GOP will probably always keep their majorities until poor and middle class people wake the fuck up. Then we need to get our version of the tea party only not crazy people and we need to lean on democrats to stop being GOP light. Tax the rich, pro union, pay people a living wage, make healthcare affordable, jesus christ.
So even when we have the white house and senate the gop are still pushing their agenda. They will even hold up the economy to get their way. And can you believe they are expected to win seats in November? What the fuck is wrong with Americans? Maybe they will prove me wrong and show up for these midterms. They didn't in 2010.
Midterms are the GOP's secret weapon. That and gerrymandering.
Instead of criticizing each other for using atheism to mean contrary things,
why not spell out the choices for what it can mean to different people/contexts.
And go through the lists and AGREE which people are talking about which approach:
17 Kinds of Atheism
Behold, the six types of atheists ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
Just because people mean different things does not make one person right and others wrong.
God means different things in different religions, too.
God as Wisdom is different from God as Love or God as Creation.
Why not decide what we mean, and stick to those concepts, so there is no conflict or confusion by using one terms to mean too many different things?
C'mon guys, with the collective intelligence we have on here, let's use some of it!
Note: I'm searching for another list of types of atheism that someone else posted.
I thought there was a list of the equivalent of "different denominations" or degrees of atheism.
I found this, but it isn't the quote I was looking for: Something to think about. - Page 31 - Evil Empire Forums
"In practical, or pragmatic, atheism, also known as apatheism, individuals live as if there are no gods and explain natural phenomena without resorting to the divine.
The existence of gods is not denied, but may be designated unnecessary or useless; gods neither provide purpose to life, nor influence everyday life, according to this view.
Practical atheism can take various forms:
Absence of religious motivationbelief in gods does not motivate moral action, religious action, or any other form of action;
Active exclusion of the problem of gods and religion from intellectual pursuit and practical action;
Indifferencethe absence of any interest in the problems of gods and religion; or
Unawareness of the concept of a deity"
__________________
Nothing in your list of definitions supports your durrogatory opinions and conclusions concerning atheism.
Attempting to associate atheism and atheists with Hitler, Stalin, Communism...etc... is offensive.
If anything atheists are typically a-political and tend NOT to join groups especially any that would require some form of statement of allegience other than where it may concern the country.
Obviously I would find it more comfortable if we could drop the added god reference installed in 1955 to the pledge of allegience. It was added stupidly as a knee jerk reaction to the threat of communism. As if THAT would prevent a communist subversive from being a subversive.
As an ACTUAL conservative I have MORE right to disbelieve that which is NOT SUPPORTED by evidense than someone who CLAIMS they are a conservative believing in something without factual evidense.
You who CLAIM to believe in things with no evidense to support these things are by definition NOT conservative. You take "LIBERTIES" with reality therefore are at heart pure liberal at your cores.
In 1981 I bought 12 acres north of Atlanta in a rural community. The suburbs have now caught up with us. My neighbor is an atheist. I never knew until a few years after I met him. When there is someone is need in the neighborhood, there is a fallen tree across someone's driveway or whatever he is the first to help. Great guy.
So what if I do not agree with his religious beliefs or lack of them.
Jesus loves atheists too!
GET REAL!!! YOU JUST WANT TO LIVE IN YOUR LIFE OF SIN and hope GOD is not real,no matter if the bible said the earth is 15 billion years old you would just move to another fake excuse to try not to believe THUS YOUR TYPE PROVE THAT HELL IS THE ONLY RIGHT PLACE FOR YOU!!!
This is why religious people deny evolution:
The motivation for belief in a divine, salvational Jesus breaks down when you accept evolution: Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrineit destroys the foundation of the gospel. - Ken Ham
????
This is extremist fundamental fear of change.
The previous Pope and many people believe we can have BOTH
evolution and creation without conflict!
My bf who is nonChristian even believes BOTH have been proven.
get rid of the division and fear,
and there is no problem accommodating BOTH.
God can create a human being, and we still go through
stages of development in life and change as we go.
Those changes can be part of the laws of life and how the system works.
Big deal.
You can write a perfectly orchestrated symphony
and leave room for some ad libbed improvisations by the soloists.
those can be part of the plan. there doesn't need to be fear and division
or rejection over this.
People have different forms of music, art, comedy, writing
and we don't have to diss each other's genres. It can all be part of
creative process and expression and not worry about conflicting with each other.
People need to grow up and quit nitpicking at things as an excuse to divide and reject
and blame others. gee whiz!!!
GET REAL!!! YOU JUST WANT TO LIVE IN YOUR LIFE OF SIN and hope GOD is not real,no matter if the bible said the earth is 15 billion years old you would just move to another fake excuse to try not to believe THUS YOUR TYPE PROVE THAT HELL IS THE ONLY RIGHT PLACE FOR YOU!!!
This is why religious people deny evolution:
The motivation for belief in a divine, salvational Jesus breaks down when you accept evolution: Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrineit destroys the foundation of the gospel. - Ken Ham
????
This is extremist fundamental fear of change.
The previous Pope and many people believe we can have BOTH
evolution and creation without conflict!
My bf who is nonChristian even believes BOTH have been proven.
get rid of the division and fear,
and there is no problem accommodating BOTH.
God can create a human being, and we still go through
stages of development in life and change as we go.
Those changes can be part of the laws of life and how the system works.
Big deal.
You can write a perfectly orchestrated symphony
and leave room for some ad libbed improvisations by the soloists.
those can be part of the plan. there doesn't need to be fear and division
or rejection over this.
People have different forms of music, art, comedy, writing
and we don't have to diss each other's genres. It can all be part of
creative process and expression and not worry about conflicting with each other.
People need to grow up and quit nitpicking at things as an excuse to divide and reject
and blame others. gee whiz!!!
Or when the church tries to ban abortion. I would say abortion is a necessary evil but human life isn't so precious that it's evil to have an abortion. Maybe if there was a god but there isn't. It may be a shame or sad or too bad but some people shouldn't have children and/or some people aren't ready to be parents and besides we already have too many people on this planet. Think about all the women who don't want a child being forced to have them because abortion isn't legal. Just consider all the horrible mothers in Detroit who aren't doing a good job raising their kids. Now add thousands of other unwanted kids to the streets of Detroit, because that is what you are going to get if you ban abortion. Thank GOD some women are smart enough to know they can't raise a human being. So in the future when religious thinking isn't an issue women who don't want to be parents yet but get pregnant won't be made to feel guilty because it was just a seed and life isn't that precious.
Why do religion haters persist? First of all, we don't really hate. We are the ones that are hated. So forgive us if we fight back. Want proof?
Americans Would Rather Vote For A Philandering, Pot-Smoking President Than An Atheist One
Why do religion haters persist? First of all, we don't really hate. We are the ones that are hated. So forgive us if we fight back. Want proof?
Americans Would Rather Vote For A Philandering, Pot-Smoking President Than An Atheist One
I think the division and distrust is pretty mutual.
I think you are good at staying moderate and rational about your objections
compared with some people who go fundamentalistic to extremes and WON'T forgive.
When you and GISMYS both calm down, and come to accept that the world needs both theists and nontheists, traditional Christians and traditional secularists
to cover all the knowledge and realms of understanding truth and working together in life, in order to meet all needs and serve greater purposes,
then maybe I'll believe that humanity is really ready to receive the full coming of Justice to be established by agreement in truth across all systems and groups. We are closer than we think, but still some work to be done to let go of our old ways and accept that the process is bigger than what we imagined.
GISMYS claims to be ready, but if he thinks the right answers leave out atheists and others just because of secular thinking, that is still missing what this process is about. It is about bringing together ALL the knowledge wisdom and understanding combined as one.
If we reject each other, we are like puzzle pieces crammed in wrong ways or mismatched
and not organized to form the whole puzzle. If we accept and receive each other, we can figure out how our ins and outs all fit together perfectly to form the bigger picture.
GISMYS is right that we are closer than ever.
what goes on here, among us, is a microcosm or reflection of the larger collective process of humanity figuring it out simultaneously. So if we can get it, how we can work together and not conflict or divide over our differences, so can the rest of the world figure it out.
We are close, but still fussing because the different pieces are not where they should be, or some pieces are still upside down. All the pieces fit if we coordinate correctly.
Thank you both, and everyone here, for being part of this process. It is very interesting and rewarding to work out all these issues otherwise preventing it from full realization.
I believe GISMYS intuition is right, but the actual process will be more involved than just magically done by God. there is deep internal work to resolve all our judgment issues.
Just a few verses that reveal God's plan. You mentioned "Christians" in your post so I'm proposing a Christian point of view from the Christian text - the Bible:
Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen."
(Note in the following verse the "them" vs. God's "faithful." The "Lamb" is Jesus Christ)
Revelation 17:14, "They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
I agree that there is a "purpose" for non-believing, deniers of Christ. I believe that our time on earth is a time of testing ones faith. There will be many, many stumbling stones in our path but Christians are called to navigate around those stones and learn lessons as they go. Satan and his followers (deniers of Christ for the name "Satan" literally means "adversary") are just some of the stumbling stones by which Christians can strengthen their faith in Christ.
Here's a good indication of what I mean:
Matthew 5:10-12, "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."
God knows that there are men who deny Him and He knows that these folks will persecute His followers. In the above passage God is telling us to be prepared for such persecution and to remain faithful during said persecution.
But does God intend to bring all humans into His Heavenly fold? Not according to this next passage:
Matthew 13:38-43, "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
It is somewhat hilarious at this point to watch your posts that have the attitude that we are all on the same path, that you have identified that proper path, and all roads will lead to Rome if only we will let them.
And to try to sell the idea that great progress is being made toward that end.
No evidence I see on here or out in the real world indicate your fantasy is on the way to fruition.
I am positive you mean well, but your vision is as arbitrary as everyone elses, and you aren't building a strong following.
But I wish you the best of luck.
It is somewhat hilarious at this point to watch your posts that have the attitude that we are all on the same path, that you have identified that proper path, and all roads will lead to Rome if only we will let them.
And to try to sell the idea that great progress is being made toward that end.
No evidence I see on here or out in the real world indicate your fantasy is on the way to fruition.
I am positive you mean well, but your vision is as arbitrary as everyone elses, and you aren't building a strong following.
But I wish you the best of luck.
Yes and no. Obviously all our paths are different, and as unique as each of us.
What I'm saying is the process we go through to reconcile our differences
is one universal process, all humanity goes through the same basic steps.
It's similar to the grief process.
When we go through a trauma, run into conflict, or face greater change than we
can handle.
We react, and go through stages, of denial/depression, anger/projection of blame,
bargaining and conflict resolution, and some level of acceptance and peace.
All people go through this.
Fowler also wrote out stages of religious or spiritual development
from liberal to fundamentalistic to moderate, so that's another way to define the map.
Recently, I read a book by Russ Whitney that defined the stages in life as the
athlete (self-focused), warrior (fighting battles), statesman (helping others), and spirit (connecting and working on an even higher plane).
Of course NONE of our paths are the same.
But we all want freedom from what we DON'T want,
and we want better things in life that we DO want.
Whatever steps or changes we have to go through to get there
follows basic patterns and is influenced by the same system of
positive loves and fulfillment in solutions that work,
and negative fears and stress from conflicts and problems that don't.
BTW [MENTION=48205]thebrucebeat[/MENTION] I like your attitude
I appreciate and respect the people on here more and more
and can see a lot more good and broader understanding come
from these interactions. thank you and keep it up, don't stop. it helps and is working to bring about constructive change.
