Why do the God-haters persist?

[sealybobo]

Aliens is actually one of the things us atheists say not to rule out. They are mentioned several times in that site I keep showing you.

Spiritual and religious experiences are not only inconsistent among individuals but are variably attributed to different gods, aliens, spirits, rituals, hallucinations, meditation etc.

Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?).

As strange as it sounds, misunderstood aliens might even be attempting to interact with us using extremely advanced technology. In fact, reality itself could be a computer simulation which we unknowingly inhabit.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

But definitive proof of what? Invisible people who live in the sky? YOUR concept of God? Any particular religious concept of God?

The evidence that we intelligently exist, that wondrous and amazing forms of life exist in all their splendor, that the entire universe exists in all it's fascinating glory, that principles and laws work precisely and predictably, that forces of nature enable a reality to exist at all, that we have a powerful and intrinsic connection to something greater than self... ALL of this is evidence. Even the fact that your own rational mind cannot imagine there isn't something greater, like Karma.

What I am trying to get you to understand with the alien theory is, maybe the "truth" is something between atheism and religion? Maybe there is a supreme power but it's not a deity God? Maybe this power does have influence over our domain, but it's not there to cast judgement or persecute? Maybe there was an intelligent designer but they were hardly Gods? Possible? I can't say that it's not.

I am open to all possibilities Boss. Give me evidence or your theories and I'll keep an open mind. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers.

But again, the more I watch religious shows or movies the more I am certain that Christianity, Muslimism and Jewdaoism are all completely made up.

I was watching Malcomb X the other day. This black woman told him she was praying for him....and not to worry because Jesus would protect him. LOL. She didn't even realize he was a muslim.

And I don't think karma points to a god either. I do believe in karma, and I will be honest I don't know why/how or even if karma is real or random, but I do believe in it. I believe if I go around stealing, lying, raping and murdering, even if I get away with it all, bad things will come my way. Or maybe my friend is right. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. Some very rich and very successful people are horrible people. They live lives of luxury. They have people that love them. So some of them might not give a shit and so karma doesn't even enter into the equation for them. So when they get karma or if their kids don't talk to them, is that karma or just the results of their actions? I choose to hope that you reap what you sow. But that doesn't mean I can't be convinced Karma isn't real either. Remember 2 months ago I believed in god too. I can be convinced that karma isn't real, logically. But I will still live my life believing in Karma because like a friend said to me, "karma is real if you believe it is real"

Look at Bush. That guy ruined the planet and he's happier than a pig in shit painting in Crawford.

Chaney should have had a heart attack and died by now but he's living just fine.

Rush is a sonofabitch who got caught on Oxycotton after saying people on drugs should be shot.

Lee Atwater was sorry for his politics when he got a terminal tumor. Too late Lee.

I can't believe any of these men aren't going to pay for their actions.

Anyways, it doesn't matter if they pay, I don't do bad things because I think what goes around comes around. This still doesn't prove a god exists. We know the god(s) that religious people believe in are made up. No one rose from the dead after 4 days (Lazarith) no one lived to over 400 years old back then, etc. We know that's all made up stories to teach right and wrong. You're saying that because instinctively because people have always believed (without any proof) that this is your proof something bigger than us exists. Something that made us. That is a possible theory. It isn't proof, but I'll give you that I don't have an answer for that yet. But it seems like 200 years ago religion said a bunch of things were god and they turned out to be scientifically provable things that were not god. So the god of the gaps approach. So I haven't been able to debunk your theory yet. But when I do, it seems that people who believe in god just move on to another bad reason why they believe. Mostly because they can't believe there is no god. Pretty powerful stuff this god is. But remember most people believe because they want to believe or because they can't fathom otherwise.

Well it is possible that there might not be a god. Do you give me that?

 

[Slyhunter]

I'm thinking the Indians had it right. Everything has a spirit and they all flow up to the great spirit and live an ethereal existence in the void.

 

[PostmodernProph]

You guys think we need religion. HA!

???....we don't think you need religion....we're actually perfectly content with you spending eternity in Hell if that's what you choose to do......

We don't believe in hell. That's a scare tactic you guys use when people refuse to believe your fairy tale.

hey, whatever you choose to believe.....makes no difference to us......

 

[sealybobo]

Aliens is actually one of the things us atheists say not to rule out. They are mentioned several times in that site I keep showing you.

Spiritual and religious experiences are not only inconsistent among individuals but are variably attributed to different gods, aliens, spirits, rituals, hallucinations, meditation etc.

Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?).

As strange as it sounds, misunderstood aliens might even be attempting to interact with us using extremely advanced technology. In fact, reality itself could be a computer simulation which we unknowingly inhabit.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

But definitive proof of what? Invisible people who live in the sky? YOUR concept of God? Any particular religious concept of God?

The evidence that we intelligently exist, that wondrous and amazing forms of life exist in all their splendor, that the entire universe exists in all it's fascinating glory, that principles and laws work precisely and predictably, that forces of nature enable a reality to exist at all, that we have a powerful and intrinsic connection to something greater than self... ALL of this is evidence. Even the fact that your own rational mind cannot imagine there isn't something greater, like Karma.

What I am trying to get you to understand with the alien theory is, maybe the "truth" is something between atheism and religion? Maybe there is a supreme power but it's not a deity God? Maybe this power does have influence over our domain, but it's not there to cast judgement or persecute? Maybe there was an intelligent designer but they were hardly Gods? Possible? I can't say that it's not.

I googled "is there any proof that god exists?" and found these answers:

You can go ahead and believe it is if you want, but you really shouldn't be going and telling other people it is, especially when a person who claims to be scared comes asking for it and you don't have a single iota of evidence to offer.

Not only is there no proof that God exists, there're not even any good logical arguments for his existence that aren't full of logical fallacies. There's not even a good reliable definition for the word God, or rather, there are way too many definitions (but no good ones). Whatever can't be defined does not exist.

The fact that people are so terrified of life, and the death it brings, is proof that he is invented to soften these blows of reality.

There is nothing to be afraid of. All of us die, and with no afterlife, there is nothing to fear after death. It is silly to say that you will be in a state of nothingness because nothing is nothing. If you are nothing when death becomes you, then there will be not a thought to fear. So you live your life for your life, and all you should worry about is how you can make your life the best it can be.

"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened."
— Dr. Seuss


There is no proof , and you shouldnt be scared of dead.

You shouldn't be scared of death, but rather you should be scared of never starting to live.

Sorry but I can't give you any proof, because there is none.

Not that I know of.
Mostly *they* will tell you, you have to believe first, then you'll have proof. Which is nonsense.

Not a single ounce.

All the best answers are listed above, then it goes into one person who talks like you. He says Everything that you see around you has an intent behind it and our purpose is to seek god. I don't buy that. Is a rats intent to seek out god? What is the rats purpose? So what makes us think we are so special? Just because we are at the top of the food chain? The more shows I watch about other animals the more I realize we are just animals. Just because our brain is big enough to come up with the idea of a "god", does not prove a god exists. So I think our purpose is to to seek out truth. And until we know the truth, best answer is we just don't know yet.

After the one guy who talks like you, it goes into bible thumper talk. So the best answers on Yahoo were atheists, So 1 jackoff like you and the rest religious nuts.

I was reading about the age of enlightenment. I wanted to see how much religion fought with science. These were the parts I found interesting:

Developments during this period were to have a profound influence in the shaping of western civilization, as science, art, philosophy and economic development flourished in the Dutch Republic. Some key players in the Dutch Enlightenment were: Baruch Spinoza, a philosopher who played a major role in shaping the basis for the Enlightenment; Pierre Bayle, a French philosopher who advocated separation between science and religion and Adriaan Koerbagh, a scholar and critic of religion

Attempts to reconcile science and religion resulted in a widespread rejection of prophecy, miracle and revealed religion in preference for Deism - especially by Thomas Paine in "The Age of Reason" and by Thomas Jefferson in his short Jefferson Bible - from which all supernatural aspects were removed.

Historian Keith Thomas says the Enlightenment has always been contested territory. He says that its supporters hail it as the source of everything that is progressive about the modern world. For them, it stands for freedom of thought, rational inquiry, critical thinking, religious tolerance, political liberty, scientific achievement, the pursuit of happiness, and hope for the future. However, he adds, "its enemies accuse it of 'shallow' rationalism, naïve optimism, unrealistic universalism, and moral darkness."

Thomas points out that from the start there was a Counter-Enlightenment in which conservative and clerical defenders of traditional religion attacked materialism and skepticism as evil forces that encouraged immorality. By 1794, they pointed to the Terror during the French Revolution as confirmation of their predictions. As the Enlightenment was ending, new generations of Romantic philosophers argued that excessive dependence on reason was a mistake perpetuated by the Enlightenment, because it disregarded the powerful bonds of history, myth, faith and tradition that were necessary to hold society together.

Enlightenment was a desire for human affairs to be guided by rationality rather than by faith, superstition, or revelation; a belief in the power of human reason to change society and liberate the individual from the restraints of custom or arbitrary authority; all backed up by a world view increasingly validated by science rather than by religion or tradition.

Enlightenment scholars sought to curtail the political power of organized religion and thereby prevent another age of intolerant religious war. Spinoza determined to remove politics from contemporary and historical theology (e.g. disregarding Judaic law). Moses Mendelssohn advised affording no political weight to any organized religion, but instead recommended that each person follow what s/he found most convincing. A good religion based in instinctive morals and a belief in God should not theoretically need force to maintain order in its believers, and both Mendelssohn and Spinoza judged religion on its moral fruits, not the logic of its theology.

Bayle (1647–1706) observed that in his day, "prudent persons will always maintain an appearance of [religion]." Locke considered the consequences for mankind if there were no God and no divine law. The result would be moral anarchy. Every individual “could have no law but his own will, no end but himself. He would be a god to himself, and the satisfaction of his own will the sole measure and end of all his actions”.

In the Enlightenment, a person could generally believe in any non-controversial religion that had an agreeable moral code and professed faith in God, but irreligious behavior was not acceptable.

Voltaire (François-Marie Arouet) (1694–1778) French. Highly influential writer, historian and philosopher. He promoted Newtonian ism and denounced organized religion as pernicious.

 

[sealybobo]

???....we don't think you need religion....we're actually perfectly content with you spending eternity in Hell if that's what you choose to do......

We don't believe in hell. That's a scare tactic you guys use when people refuse to believe your fairy tale.

hey, whatever you choose to believe.....makes no difference to us......

Actually it does seem to make a difference to you guys. Did you see that athiest girl who wanted GOD taken down off the wall in her school? You should have seen the freaks that got upset. What do they care? It should make no difference to them but it certainly does.

So I hope you are telling the truth. You keep that story to yourself because it really makes you look like a stupid fucking moron on these boards. Maybe your stupid neighbors and members of your church buy that bullshit down in Mayberry but this "you'll go to hell" shit only makes you sound like a stupid baby who knows deep down she/he has zero evidence and you just can't fucking believe that your pastor swallowed the same like your parents swallowed and you swallowed the same like. Your family has been swallowing that lie for thousands of years. Dummy.

 

[Boss]

Not only is there no proof that God exists, there're not even any good logical arguments for his existence that aren't full of logical fallacies.

This statement is only true if you get to pre-determine what the parameters are for "God." We can see in just this one sentence, several presuppositions that do not have to apply for God. 1.) There is no way to physically "prove" spiritual existence. 2. God doesn't have to conform to logical arguments or be a "he." 3. Proof and evidence are subjective terms, the absence of which, does not necessarily relate to truth.

Now, I think I presented some compelling evidence... I never said I "proved" anything, God can't be proven. Our DNA coding as humans is more complex than the coding operating the machine you are typing and reading these posts on. I've still heard no "logical" explanation for electrons disappearing and re-appearing or being in two places at the same time, and this happens at a molecular level in everything we perceive as matter. I've heard no "logical" explanation for why there is no mass inside a black hole, yet the gravitational forces are so strong that light can't escape.

I know how much you adore the Age of Enlightenment and Science... So let me close with a true story from Sir Isaac Newton, Father of the Enlightenment and modern Science...

Newton was visited by an Atheist colleague at Cambridge. His guest commented on a model of the solar system on Newton's shelf. "Wow, this is beautiful, did you make it?"
Newton replied, "No one made it!"
The guest looked somewhat puzzled at Newton and said, "But of course someone must have made this!"
Newton responded, "You see the entire universe out there and believe it is possible that it wasn't made, yet this tiny material object, you can't imagine it wasn't made?"

 

[sealybobo]

Not only is there no proof that God exists, there're not even any good logical arguments for his existence that aren't full of logical fallacies.

get to pre-determine what the parameters are for "God."

There is no way to physically "prove" spiritual existence.

God doesn't have to conform to logical arguments or be a "he." 3.

Proof and evidence are subjective terms, the absence of which, does not necessarily relate to truth.

I know how much you adore the Age of Enlightenment and Science... So let me close with a true story from Sir Isaac Newton, Father of the Enlightenment and modern Science...

Newton was visited by an Atheist colleague at Cambridge. His guest commented on a model of the universe on Newton's shelf. "Wow, this is beautiful, did you make it?"
Newton replied, "No one made it!"
The guest looked somewhat puzzled at Newton and said, "But of course someone must have made this!"
Newton responded, "You see the entire universe out there and believe it is possible that it wasn't made, yet this tiny material object, you can't imagine it wasn't made?"

Yes we do get to define what god is. If you can't define it, how are you so sure of it?

Thank you for admitting it. There is no way to prove god exists. Finally. I see you added "physically" in the sentence. Do you plan on proving it to me EMOTIONALLY? We already understand humans are superstitious and believe because they want to believe.

And stop saying we always believed. Bullshit. At one point early in our history someone made it up. So what? That only shows how primitive the idea is.

No boss, YOU don't have to conform to logical arguments. Thanks for finally admitting all this.

Proof: evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.

Subjective: influenced by personal feelings or opinions

Sir Isaac Newton, one of history’s greatest scientists, was not only intensely religious but also believed in alchemical transmutation. Alchemy is, however, fully incorrect given our modern understanding of chemistry, the atom and nucleosynthysis.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

 

[sealybobo]

Right on cue.

You guys do realize each day us atheists wake up to see what the god fearing russians, jews and muslims are doing to each other. You do realize it isn't atheists lobbying bombs into Israel, right? Those bombs are coming from god fearing people.

Maybe us atheists should pray to god that he strikes all of you down and leave the planet to us. No doubt the planet will be much better off with scientists leading the way not capitalist pigs controlling ignorant religious fools.

And what will the christian USA do to help? Will we send food and aid or will we bomb Hamas for the Jews because the bible says defend the "chosen people".

 

[sealybobo]

I'm thinking the Indians had it right. Everything has a spirit and they all flow up to the great spirit and live an ethereal existence in the void.

By boss' logic, because they came up with it when they were very primitive and unevolved and uneducated, that means it must be true.

I wonder, if this was the truth, how did we lose the truth and come up with 100 different organized religions? If boss is right and man is so smart, how come we have a million different "truths". I think its because primitive man wasn't that smart and was superstitious, including the indians.

But that is interesting for sure that the indians believed "something" too. No englishman told them about god. But all that proves is we are all very simliar creatures. We all have wild imaginations. We all had a healthy fear of the unknown when we were cavemen and we came up with god.

Remember the boogyman? How long did it take to convince yourself he wasn't under your bed or in your closet?

Anyways, us Atheists get blamed for the French Revolution and Stalin, so every war you guys fight, every war the jews and muslims fight, puts you closer and closer to topping us for being the most murderous. I say you have long since passed us on that, but you guys claim we have murdered more, so assuming you are right which you are not, everytime a jew kills a muslim or a muslim kills a jew or a christian kills a muslim, that puts you closer and closer to our record, which I say we don't even hold, but whatever. I just enjoy watching religious people murder because each time it proves me right. I myself have never murdered anyone. I'm an atheist.

 

[Montrovant]

Not only is there no proof that God exists, there're not even any good logical arguments for his existence that aren't full of logical fallacies.

This statement is only true if you get to pre-determine what the parameters are for "God." We can see in just this one sentence, several presuppositions that do not have to apply for God. 1.) There is no way to physically "prove" spiritual existence. 2. God doesn't have to conform to logical arguments or be a "he." 3. Proof and evidence are subjective terms, the absence of which, does not necessarily relate to truth.

Now, I think I presented some compelling evidence... I never said I "proved" anything, God can't be proven. Our DNA coding as humans is more complex than the coding operating the machine you are typing and reading these posts on. I've still heard no "logical" explanation for electrons disappearing and re-appearing or being in two places at the same time, and this happens at a molecular level in everything we perceive as matter. I've heard no "logical" explanation for why there is no mass inside a black hole, yet the gravitational forces are so strong that light can't escape.

I know how much you adore the Age of Enlightenment and Science... So let me close with a true story from Sir Isaac Newton, Father of the Enlightenment and modern Science...

Newton was visited by an Atheist colleague at Cambridge. His guest commented on a model of the universe on Newton's shelf. "Wow, this is beautiful, did you make it?"
Newton replied, "No one made it!"
The guest looked somewhat puzzled at Newton and said, "But of course someone must have made this!"
Newton responded, "You see the entire universe out there and believe it is possible that it wasn't made, yet this tiny material object, you can't imagine it wasn't made?"

Aren't black holes supposed to be very large amounts of mass in an extremely small, perhaps infinitely small, volume of space?

 

[Slyhunter]

Right on cue.

You guys do realize each day us atheists wake up to see what the god fearing russians, jews and muslims are doing to each other. You do realize it isn't atheists lobbying bombs into Israel, right? Those bombs are coming from god fearing people.

Maybe us atheists should pray to god that he strikes all of you down and leave the planet to us. No doubt the planet will be much better off with scientists leading the way not capitalist pigs controlling ignorant religious fools.

And what will the christian USA do to help? Will we send food and aid or will we bomb Hamas for the Jews because the bible says defend the "chosen people".

I have to agree with you.
Religion has caused more problems than it has solved.
And that sucks.

 

[Slyhunter]

When I was a kid I believed in Tooth Fairies. I grew up and learned better.
When I was a kid I believe in Santa Clause. I grew up and learned better.
What makes you think this Christian God is any different?
What makes him real and the God of the Muslims a lie, or the God of the Talmud, or the Buddhist bullshit. There are a lot of religions that had I been born into it I would probably stupidly be a believer until I out grew it.

 

[thanatos144]

Right on cue.

You guys do realize each day us atheists wake up to see what the god fearing russians, jews and muslims are doing to each other. You do realize it isn't atheists lobbying bombs into Israel, right? Those bombs are coming from god fearing people.

Maybe us atheists should pray to god that he strikes all of you down and leave the planet to us. No doubt the planet will be much better off with scientists leading the way not capitalist pigs controlling ignorant religious fools.

And what will the christian USA do to help? Will we send food and aid or will we bomb Hamas for the Jews because the bible says defend the "chosen people".

I have to agree with you.
Religion has caused more problems than it has solved.
And that sucks.

Bullshit.

Tapatalk

 

[HUGGY]

Right on cue.

You guys do realize each day us atheists wake up to see what the god fearing russians, jews and muslims are doing to each other. You do realize it isn't atheists lobbying bombs into Israel, right? Those bombs are coming from god fearing people.

Maybe us atheists should pray to god that he strikes all of you down and leave the planet to us. No doubt the planet will be much better off with scientists leading the way not capitalist pigs controlling ignorant religious fools.

And what will the christian USA do to help? Will we send food and aid or will we bomb Hamas for the Jews because the bible says defend the "chosen people".

I have to agree with you.
Religion has caused more problems than it has solved.
And that sucks.

Defending a lie is always problematic.

 

[thanatos144]

You guys do realize each day us atheists wake up to see what the god fearing russians, jews and muslims are doing to each other. You do realize it isn't atheists lobbying bombs into Israel, right? Those bombs are coming from god fearing people.

Maybe us atheists should pray to god that he strikes all of you down and leave the planet to us. No doubt the planet will be much better off with scientists leading the way not capitalist pigs controlling ignorant religious fools.

And what will the christian USA do to help? Will we send food and aid or will we bomb Hamas for the Jews because the bible says defend the "chosen people".

I have to agree with you.
Religion has caused more problems than it has solved.
And that sucks.

Defending a lie is always problematic.

What lie ?

Tapatalk

 

[PostmodernProph]

When I was a kid I believed in Tooth Fairies. I grew up and learned better.
When I was a kid I believe in Santa Clause. I grew up and learned better.
What makes you think this Christian God is any different?
What makes him real and the God of the Muslims a lie, or the God of the Talmud, or the Buddhist bullshit. There are a lot of religions that had I been born into it I would probably stupidly be a believer until I out grew it.

Santa Claus never brought my children anything....I know, because I had the receipt for all the presents they ever received.....

 

[sealybobo]

I have to agree with you.
Religion has caused more problems than it has solved.
And that sucks.

Defending a lie is always problematic.

What lie ?

Tapatalk

The lies that you call the old or new testaments. Complete utter bullshit.

And, each day I wake up to see how many religious jews the muslims have killed or how many muslims the religious jews have killed. Either way it is religion killing other religions. No good. And it isn't like Christians are innocent of this.

In fact, I heard that a few decades ago America was guilty of shooting down an Iranian passenger plane. So while we are shocked at what the Russians are doing, realize we aren't much better/different.

We had the balls to cry foul when Russia invaded Ukraine but we invaded Iraq? See, religion makes people really stupid and ignorant. We can't even see we are hypocrites because of religion. That's what you get when you throw out logic and reason.

Anyone who believes in a fairy tale is a fucking retard and probably really easily manipulated.

 

[BreezeWood]

eventually, those religions will fall to the wayside - and a renewed understanding for the true Almighty will continue in its course. -

till either the Triumph of Good over Evil or of Evil over Good is concluded in finality.

.

 

[sealybobo]

eventually, those religions will fall to the wayside - and a renewed understanding for the true Almighty will continue in its course. -

till either the Triumph of Good over Evil or of Evil over Good is concluded in finality.

.

Maybe one day religion won't claim an impossible story is true. Maybe it won't claim that believing in an imaginary man or their impossible stories is the only way to heaven.

Hell, I'd be ok if people worshipped the sun. At least I can see the sun and I know without it I'm dead. The sun is worthy of worship.

IN FACT, we use to worship the sun and not a made up god. So seems we are going backwards as far as our beliefs go.

 

[Slyhunter]

You guys do realize each day us atheists wake up to see what the god fearing russians, jews and muslims are doing to each other. You do realize it isn't atheists lobbying bombs into Israel, right? Those bombs are coming from god fearing people.

Maybe us atheists should pray to god that he strikes all of you down and leave the planet to us. No doubt the planet will be much better off with scientists leading the way not capitalist pigs controlling ignorant religious fools.

And what will the christian USA do to help? Will we send food and aid or will we bomb Hamas for the Jews because the bible says defend the "chosen people".

I have to agree with you.
Religion has caused more problems than it has solved.
And that sucks.

Bullshit.

Tapatalk

Your reply should've had a comma not a period in it where you go on and explain why my statement was bullshit.