Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[ding]

No, what it means it know what a "noun" is.

Thought, which is what consciousness is, isn't made of matter.

 

[ding]

I don't read allegorical passages literally. I don't know what you are referring to at this point.


I sense you don't really understand Protestant Christian Soteriology and "Justification by Faith" so there's not a lot of value to listen to you critique stuff you don't understand.

Since you don't read every passage literally, what were the first two chapters of Genesis about?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Thought, which is what consciousness is, isn't made of matter.

You have now confused "matter" with "noun". You claim a bunch of things are "no thing" but they are all nouns so that makes them "things". Even concepts are "things".

If what you meant all along was "not matter" then that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Since you don't read every passage literally, what were the first two chapters of Genesis about?

I assume by this you are focusing on "The Fall" narrative. Which I readily agree is a GREAT allegory. An allegory for "growing up". The original sin was eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Once eaten you are responsible for knowing the difference. Just like growing up and becoming an adult. Once you become an adult you are responsible for your choices. You know the difference between right and wrong and you are to be held accountable for your choices.

 

[ding]

This magic word is important to you, isn't it?

Not really. I'm just proving a point.

 

[Blues Man]

I have not because, due to my upbringing, that is not a belief I have ever held of anyone and therefore would not speak. I merely share a different set of experiences. IF it is you who are seeing your own experiences as limited compared to another's, that is for you to analyze. Please read what I actually say; stop projecting and seeing arguments that are not there. If you want a discussion, I am here. If you want an argument, find someone else. I am not interested.

I've got a pretty good memory.

Just because you are happy with the limitations/boundaries you have set for yourself does not mean they work for all. Some of us are more daring.

You assume I have set limits to my life because I have no need for gods. You who "dare" to choose god are not so limited.

 

[ding]

You have now confused "matter" with "noun". You claim a bunch of things are "no thing" but they are all nouns so that makes them "things". Even concepts are "things".

If what you meant all along was "not matter" then that's an entirely different discussion.

I haven't confused anything. You can't seem to make the distinction between the doer (noun) and the doing (verb). You are trying to turn a philosophical discussion into a grammar discussion. Move beyond the grammar and look at what is important; God is not made of matter and energy as we know it. Can't be. God is more like a verb.

 

[ding]

I assume by this you are focusing on "The Fall" narrative. Which I readily agree is a GREAT allegory. An allegory for "growing up". The original sin was eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Once eaten you are responsible for knowing the difference. Just like growing up and becoming an adult. Once you become an adult you are responsible for your choices. You know the difference between right and wrong and you are to be held accountable for your choices.

No. All of it actually, not just the fall.

How does the narrative tell us that we know wrong from right?

 

[ding]

"The Problem of Evil" is not one of my. main critiques of God. I think it is a reasonable question but not the reason I'm no longer a believer.

Evil isn't extant. It only exists as the negation of good. What is your main critique of God?

 

[ding]

You wouldn't understand the technical details of my "de-conversion" since it requires a lot more understanding in areas of theology, philosophy and psychology so I will spare you my efforts to explain it.

That's a textbook example of the dunning effect.

You can't possibly know what I know or don't know. You only think you do because you overestimate yourself and underestimate me (i.e. dunning effect).

Try me.

 

[ding]

That's sobering.

More like reality.

 

[ding]

Not consistently, though, right?

Yes, consistently. The secret is in knowing we don't have perfect knowledge to understand what is good and bad for us. Many times what we believe is bad for us is really good for us and what we believe is really good for us is really bad for us. Nothing is as it seems.

 

[ding]

Which I readily agree is a GREAT allegory. An allegory for "growing up".

Incorrect

The original sin was eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Incorrect

 

[Meriweather]

You assume I have set limits to my life because I have no need for gods. You who "dare" to choose god are not so limited.

Not only sigh, but heavy sigh. That limit you set for yourself was not a spiritual limit. The limit you set is that for you it doesn't matter how we got here. That is a knowledge limit you choose to accept, not a spiritual one.

It matters to me how we got here; on the other hand, the knowledge of how to build a space ship to travel beyond our planet does not matter to me--but it matters to some. This has absolutely nothing to do with limiting another's spirituality.

All I want is for you to read what I say and to stop claiming what I say actually means something else. If you want to argue with someone, find another member. I am here to share different perspectives.

 

[Blues Man]

Not only sigh, but heavy sigh. That limit you set for yourself was not a spiritual limit. The limit you set is that for you it doesn't matter how we got here. That is a knowledge limit you choose to accept, not a spiritual one.

It matters to me how we got here; on the other hand, the knowledge of how to build a space ship to travel beyond our planet does not matter to me--but it matters to some. This has absolutely nothing to do with limiting another's spirituality.

All I want is for you to read what I say and to stop claiming what I say actually means something else. If you want to argue with someone, find another member. I am here to share different perspectives.

Your opinion.

And everything has a context.

it has always been that way and always will be that way.

the truth is that no one really knows how we got here.

No one really knows how the universe came to be.

Saying a god did it is no more provable than saying a singularity did it.

And the entire idea of the self, the individual soul is what is limiting. When you realize that there is no self, that self is an illusion you also then realize there is nothing separating you from the entire universe.

 

[BreezeWood]

God is not made of matter and energy as we know it. Can't be. God is more like a verb.

who's we - because everyone else knows the metaphysical forces are entirely "made" of matter and energy ... as is the metaphysical substance, physiology that will generate itself wherever conditions are suitable and requires the intangible metaphysical spiritual content that corresponds to its development -

whether the desert religion, monotheistic bing deity - exists or not.

- as does exist the true heavenly polytheistic existence of spiritual purity, who may accomplish the feat themselves - and are the guiding lite of the universe.

 

[Meriweather]

You assume I have set limits to my life because I have no need for gods.

Another heavy sigh. Sorry, I have made no such assumption. You did not tell me you set limits to your life. You said the knowledge of how we got here does not matter to you. All I said that knowledge does matter to some. And you turned that into me saying you have spiritual limits! I am dumbfounded! What a strange conclusion.

What I do know is that it takes a phenomenal amount of time and energy--a great deal of one's life--to move beyond faith to find and know God. Because of this, I am a fervent believer in the Bible verse that states blessed are those who have not seen/known--but believe. Knowing is a heavy burden, and faith the size of a mustard seed is the easy yoke of which Jesus spoke. There is a light burden there.

I was once interested in you because you chose a path similar to that of my husband. Similar, but not exact. My husband really isn't that interested in spirituality, but this physical, earthly life. You seemed to be interested in spirituality, minus God. Since that is a path not possible for me to follow, I was once interested in your journey and explorations. Not so much any more as it seems your preference is arguing, not sharing. Perhaps my interest--because of my knowledge--is making your burden heavier, and I have no wish to be a burden any more than I have a wish to argue.

I suggest you ignore me, and I will do my best to stay out of your way. Meanwhile, I wish you well with your exploration/journey.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Incorrect

Incorrect

LOL.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Research any/all of these. All have much greater depth than religion. People need to stop making religion the convenient whipping boy. It barely skims the surface of why any/all these took place.

Of course there's "politics" involved in any of these issues, but note how religion was leveraged (quite effectively) to make it possible.

 

[Meriweather]

Of course there's "politics" involved in any of these issues, but note how religion was leveraged (quite effectively) to make it possible.

Precisely. Politics is what was manipulating that entire list. Politicians have always known they can manipulate the population by claiming, "God said" or "Do it for Mom!" At some point Grandma was brought into the mix.

Yes, the cry from the faithful should be, "Churches, Mosques, Temples! Do not let yourselves be manipulated by the politicians both outside and inside your doors!"

A few of my ancestors were caught up in the Salem Witch Hunt. While people of faith were among those who whipped things up, it was also people of faith who fought against and ended what was happening.

Meanwhile, people of faith also became the founders of inns, schools, and hospitals. Businesses and corporations have long taken those over, but in the beginning, it was people of faith (and I am sure also people of no faith) who were the founders of these institutions.

People of faith are not a perfect people--but nor are we villains....Simply people of our times.