Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[ding]

But you assume that everyone will, though, right? Because otherwise there are RULES.

Incorrect. I make no assumptions at all. Why should I?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Exactly. I'm not a church lady like you.

LOL. So I simultaneously DON'T believe in God AND am a "Church Lady".

Funny. It's almost as if my posts confuse the crap out of you. Because you have no experience in debating philosophy or theology. It's all way beyond you. You are very limited in your reading, you know next to nothing and when you post something you have to basically wholesale lift entire chapters of other people's work.

LOL.

Go back and close your eyes real tight and pray some more.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Incorrect. I make no assumptions at all. Why should I?

Wow. You lack even a modicum of thought about your own faith?

I'm impressed. I honestly didn't think someone could mock God by violating his commandments, claim they WORSHIP that same god they mock and now show me that they don't even THINK ABOUT THEIR OWN FAITH.

You are a complete package.

 

[Meriweather]

Then if there are some who FAIL

'Fail'? Who fails?

 

[Meriweather]

Ergo my original point still stands.

Why the need to change the word 'choice' to the word 'fail'?

 

[ding]

LOL. So I simultaneously DON'T believe in God AND am a "Church Lady".

Funny. It's almost as if my posts confuse the crap out of you. Because you have no experience in debating philosophy or theology. It's all way beyond you. You are very limited in your reading, you know next to nothing and when you post something you have to basically wholesale lift entire chapters of other people's work.

LOL.

Go back and close your eyes real tight and pray some more.

You worship yourself. That's your God.

Every argument you make is a moral argument. That's what makes you a church lady. It's also what proves God exists. You can't abandon the concept of right and wrong even when you violate it.

 

[Meriweather]

Indeed. Which one is correct? Guess you have to pick a side and hope that you got the right one on Judgement Day.

Judgement day is not a test about the contents of the Bible. It appears to center on how well we love God and our fellowman.

 

[ding]

Wow. You lack even a modicum of thought about your own faith?

I'm impressed. I honestly didn't think someone could mock God by violating his commandments, claim they WORSHIP that same god they mock and now show me that they don't even THINK ABOUT THEIR OWN FAITH.

You are a complete package.

Incorrect. I am stating reality. It's not up to us. You on the other hand would be judge, jury and executioner if given the chance. Your judgments of people cloud your objectivity and prevent you from seeing reality.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

It is hard to love something one does not believe exists.

• I have no belief in God
• I reject God (can't reject what is not there)

It is hard. In fact, it's arguably stupid.

So if God wants ME to come to Him (and we are assured He does) then I'm merely asking that he not ask me to do something that is stupid.

The theology of a rational God does not allow for games like this.

If someone truly wants eternal separation from God, isn't that what freedom of choice is all about?

What about those who DON'T want it but are given it? (Yes, that happens)

To those interested in an eternity in heaven, the question can be raised, In what capacity?

Oh I am so NOT interested in an eternity ANYWHERE. Heaven or elsewhere. I simply want to cease to exist upon death. I don't know why people NEED eternal life. It feeds a basic sense that we are still toddlers with simple basic absurdist hungers.

But that doesn't really matter to the discussion at hand. God's reality is completely divorced from my wishes.

God either IS or ISN'T.

A God that IS must be logically coherent and consistent and, since we are talking about the Christian VERSION of God we must also square that with the Bible whence we get the concept of Jahweh and the Christian Salvation model.

Therein lies the rub.

Do we take the net down and play something that we CALL tennis but isn't really tennis? Or do we have a set of rules of logic?

 

[ding]

So if God wants ME to come to Him (and we are assured He does) then I'm merely asking that he not ask me to do something that is stupid.

God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, under certain conditions and with certain results in the lives of those who do them. That's what God is looking for from you.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Judgement day is not a test about the contents of the Bible. It appears to center on how well we love God and our fellowman.

And if you didn't feel God's presence and didn't love him and if you were accidentally born a Protestant where "works" are not justification then I sense you are screwed.

But you and I both know that YOU have the right approach. Your version of God will be the controlling one, even if countless other Christians tell you that isn't really how God will judge you.

The only reason I keep harping on this is because God is either a super-friendly "pick-your-own-adventure" build-a-god snaptogether kit where we get to make God so he pleases us, or he's the God that is featured in the Bible in all his glory and viciousness and arbitrariness.

Like I've said about a billion times now and I mean it: I love your version of God. If I were going to be a believer I'd probably go for that version (I wouldn't lard on the other Catholic bells and whistles of the Mass and all the other stuff where you have to sit and kneel and stand and sit and stand and kneel and repeat scripted phrases etc.).

It sounds like your God enjoys both "Grace" (a concept I love and see applications for in secular society) but also "works" for justification. That pleases an atheist to know that dealing with the problems of real people on the earth instead of just closing one's eyes and praying are important to the whole equation.

But you and I both know that thousands of people have been murdered over these "choices of God". And God didn't step in and set out more truth for us. We got to murder each other until enough people got tired of the blood that we just sat back and continued to create out own versions of God.

We evolve God to be like us. God is no longer the partisan genocidal junkie of the OT, now he's a God of love. That's moving in the right direction. If God, the ruler of the entire universe, the ONLY TRUTH, eternal and unchanging, can change to fit modern mores then I say "Keep up the good work! Make a God that everyone gets along with and doesn't have any onerous requirements!"

 

[Meriweather]

And the biblical description of God as a jealous god who delivers cities over to be killed by the edge of a sword, that is best left in the dust.

And since I'm in little need of a tiny whispering sound I am more than happy to toss out the whole thing.

Like I said earlier: you and I only differ by degree.

The original Hebrew goes beyond 'jealous' being a simple emotion. Judaism notes that human emotions do not describe God any better than "the right hand of God" describes God's physical appearance.

The point is that one cannot give most of one's allegiance to God while saving a bit of allegiance to things of this world. For example there is pure silver; there are also silver alloys that add another substance (such as copper) to pure silver. Recall Jesus words: Blessed are the pure of heart. That is God's calling to us, to focus solely on Him and His ways.

I am surprise you see yourself mostly in agreement with me. I see the two of us as having very different perspectives.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, under certain conditions and with certain results in the lives of those who do them. That's what God is looking for from you.

I was raised a protestant. You should learn more about other sects of you religion.

 

[ding]

I simply want to cease to exist upon death.

If you want to be separated from God, he will grant your wish and withdraw his spirit from you. Only then when you will know what you lost.

I don't believe he destroys what he creates, so your wish to cease to exist may not be granted.

 

[ding]

I was raised a protestant. You should learn more about other sects of you religion.

I have. I got that from MLK Jr.

"Religion's Answer to the Problem of Evil"

kinginstitute.stanford.edu

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

The original Hebrew goes beyond 'jealous' being a simple emotion. Judaism notes that human emotions do not describe God any better than "the right hand of God" describes God's physical appearance.

Do you really have to parse out individual random terms? I sense a goodly amount of "Pharisee" in you.

I am surprise you see yourself mostly in agreement with me. I see the two of us as having very different perspectives.

You pick and choose the bits you like about God and jettison the rest. I do the same thing. I just jettison more of the stuff.

I'm surprised you don't get that.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

If you want to be separated from God, he will grant your wish and withdraw his spirit from you. Only then when you will know what you lost.

I will tell you, I LOVE It when Christians get a little woody about my damnation.

"Know what I lost".

I don't believe he destroys what he creates, so your wish to cease to exist may not be granted.

What will happen to atheists in your version?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I have. I got that from MLK Jr.

Justification by Faith
Justification by Works


I wish you knew more about theology.

 

[ding]

I will tell you, I LOVE It when Christians get a little woody about my damnation.

"Know what I lost".

Quite the opposite. I am saddened by your choice to separate yourself from God. It's human nature to take for granted the things we have. Which is why when we lose what we have we come to appreciate what we lost. It's just human nature.

 

[ding]

What will happen to atheists in your version?

No idea. What part of no one knows their fate or the fate of others did you not understand?