Why Does Health Care in the U.S. Cost So Much?

[Mr. Shaman]

The short short version? Lack of a free market.

Let me simplify it for you in two words: Big. Pharma.

They have the government in their pockets and have been successfully keeping out the small man for decades. There is no profit in cures, there is LOTS of profit in treatment for cures and even more profit in making up new diseases...as they currently do now.

The Drugging Of America baby...gotta love Capitalism on Steroids!

If anyone is thinking government price fixing, watch out. You'll see how the research and introduction of new pharmaceuticals grinds to a screeching halt.

Please!!

PATENTS ALWAY$ come to the rescue!!​

It is not capitalism that creates the expense. Rather it is government interference with the marketplace that creates the high cost.

Gee.....you (ALSO) had the opportunity to blame those Evil Scientists (and, their non-denominational/more cost-effective options)....and, BLEW IT??!!! ​

 

[SwingVoter]

The short short version? Lack of a free market.

that's because Republicans have long been staunch supporters of socialized medicine, aka Medicare

irony here is that it was Obama who proposed cuts to Medicare Advantage that McCain was incensed about and wanted reinstated

when the GOP stops hijacking limited government rhetoric and starts showing the balls to practice it, you can come back and tell me about the free market

 

[Christopher]

"That’s because 20 percent of patients account for 80 percent of spending, and that 20 percent is made up mostly of the chronically ill."

“Indeed, perhaps the most significant reason Americans are drowning in health care debt may shock you: Americans are getting far too much unnecessary care. Of our total $2.3 trillion health care bill last year, a whopping $500 billion to $700 billion (30%) was spent on treatments, tests, and hospitalizations that did nothing to improve our health. Even worse, new evidence suggests that too much health care may actually be killing us.”
Even as millions aren’t getting treatments they vitally need, a leading medical journalist argues that the main culprit in the soaring cost of American health care is actually overtreatment… and all that extra care is making us very sick.

$500 BILLION: The amount that Americans spend annually on unnecessary care.

30,000: The number of Medicare recipients who die each year as a result of unneeded care.

50%: The portion of surgeries, tests, and procedures that are not backed by scientific evidence.

Consumers aren’t shopping wisely. The moral-hazard argument says that because people don’t pay out of pocket, they use more-expensive health care than necessary. Moral hazard says we go to the doctor when we don’t really need to; we insist on getting a CT scan for a twisted ankle when ice and an Ace bandage will do. Experts will tell you that as many as one in four doctor’s-office visits are “social calls,” and nearly half of emergency room visits are for care that could have been handled in a nonemergency setting. But even this argument doesn’t explain why health care costs so much. That’s because 20 percent of patients account for 80 percent of spending, and that 20 percent is made up mostly of the chronically ill. These patients are often sick with multiple conditions—such as diabetes, heart disease, and high blood pressure—and more than half of the money we devote to caring for them is spent when they are in the hospital. People who are sick enough to be hospitalized are generally too ill to be insisting on certain tests or procedures.

Indeed, perhaps the most significant reason Americans are drowning in health care debt may shock you: Americans are getting far too much unnecessary care. Of our total $2.3 trillion health care bill last year, a whopping $500 billion to $700 billion was spent on treatments, tests, and hospitalizations that did nothing to improve our health. Even worse, new evidence suggests that too much health care may actually be killing us.
According to estimates by Elliott Fisher, M.D., a noted Dartmouth researcher, unnecessary care leads to the deaths of as many as 30,000 Medicare recipients annually.

Source: AARP Magazine

This is a great source to read for understanding some of the main factors that have increased health care costs.
Technological Change and the Growth of Health Care Spending

The greatest factors the CBO attributes to rising health care costs seems to include:

• Technological advances
• Having a third party payment system (Medicare and Medicaid)
• Increase in personal income

...the general consensus among health economists is that growth in real health care spending was principally the result of the emergence of new medical technologies and services and their adoption and widespread diffusion by the U.S. health care system...

 

[Political Junky]

"That’s because 20 percent of patients account for 80 percent of spending, and that 20 percent is made up mostly of the chronically ill."

“Indeed, perhaps the most significant reason Americans are drowning in health care debt may shock you: Americans are getting far too much unnecessary care. Of our total $2.3 trillion health care bill last year, a whopping $500 billion to $700 billion (30%) was spent on treatments, tests, and hospitalizations that did nothing to improve our health. Even worse, new evidence suggests that too much health care may actually be killing us.”
Even as millions aren’t getting treatments they vitally need, a leading medical journalist argues that the main culprit in the soaring cost of American health care is actually overtreatment… and all that extra care is making us very sick.

$500 BILLION: The amount that Americans spend annually on unnecessary care.

30,000: The number of Medicare recipients who die each year as a result of unneeded care.

50%: The portion of surgeries, tests, and procedures that are not backed by scientific evidence.

Consumers aren’t shopping wisely. The moral-hazard argument says that because people don’t pay out of pocket, they use more-expensive health care than necessary. Moral hazard says we go to the doctor when we don’t really need to; we insist on getting a CT scan for a twisted ankle when ice and an Ace bandage will do. Experts will tell you that as many as one in four doctor’s-office visits are “social calls,” and nearly half of emergency room visits are for care that could have been handled in a nonemergency setting. But even this argument doesn’t explain why health care costs so much. That’s because 20 percent of patients account for 80 percent of spending, and that 20 percent is made up mostly of the chronically ill. These patients are often sick with multiple conditions—such as diabetes, heart disease, and high blood pressure—and more than half of the money we devote to caring for them is spent when they are in the hospital. People who are sick enough to be hospitalized are generally too ill to be insisting on certain tests or procedures.

Indeed, perhaps the most significant reason Americans are drowning in health care debt may shock you: Americans are getting far too much unnecessary care. Of our total $2.3 trillion health care bill last year, a whopping $500 billion to $700 billion was spent on treatments, tests, and hospitalizations that did nothing to improve our health. Even worse, new evidence suggests that too much health care may actually be killing us.
According to estimates by Elliott Fisher, M.D., a noted Dartmouth researcher, unnecessary care leads to the deaths of as many as 30,000 Medicare recipients annually.

Source: AARP Magazine

AARP is nothing more than a seller of health insurance. Forgive me if I don't value their opinion.

 

[Jarhead]

Because it's a litigious society and everybody wants to sue the hell out of everybody else for every freaking little scratch they get. Makes for bad premium increases and richer lawyers. End of story.

That is a very good point.

Mal Pracitce is a big cost to a doctor as it pertains to his/her overall practice proifit...usually about 20%.
My father in law was a pdiatrician and his profit was 500K and his mal pracitve insurance cost him 125K a year
But, when you pass that 125K over the amount of patients......he had hundreds....it is less than $750 per patient...
But there is no doubt that somethig is askew that Obama, Reiud and Pelosi did not include tort reform in the bill turned law...and it botherted me that my two senators refused to explain to me why...From Gillibrand I got a nice little...."we will look into it and get back to you"...and from Schumer I got a note saying "there were many intitiaves that we could not put in the bill. We were limited by the opposition"
Really chuck? You wanted tort repofrm and the GOP didnt?
Do they even fucking read our emails?

 

[snjmom]

It costs so much because it is more profitable to sell treatment to a patient than it is to cure them or let them realize that some things just don't have an effective treatment.

We have an overabundance of suppliers. The countries that have more doctors per patient are, are you ready for this?





Western and Soviet socialists.

Now, why aren't the free market equations turning that on it's head?

Global Patients per Doctor

 

[Cuyo]

Expensive??? What are you talking about? Didn't you hear? If you can't afford it, Obamacare pays for it...well....not actually...the rest of us pay for it...but it's not expensive if you're broke, unemployed or here illegally.

Don't be an idiot.

 

[Cuyo]

The short short version? Lack of a free market.

Let me simplify it for you in two words: Big. Pharma.

They have the government in their pockets and have been successfully keeping out the small man for decades. There is no profit in cures, there is LOTS of profit in treatment for cures and even more profit in making up new diseases...as they currently do now.

The Drugging Of America baby...gotta love Capitalism on Steroids!

Do you ever get tired of thinking up excuses where you can blame some big faceless entity for a problem?
High medical costs? Big Pharma.
High energy costs? Big Oil.
High Unemployment? Big corporations.
COrruption in Government? Big corporations.
Discrimination? Big Whitey.
etc etc.

It must really be sad to be you, a mere pawn in the game of life at the mercy of every two bit combine, trust, or conspiracy in the world.

Rabbi's Response:
High medical costs? The Gubmint.
High energy costs? The Gubmint.
High unemployment? The Gubmint.
Corruption in Government? The Gubmint.
Discrimination? Doesn't exist.

Is there anything that woes anyone whose blame you can't place squarely on the Gubmint?

 

[The Rabbi]

Let me simplify it for you in two words: Big. Pharma.

They have the government in their pockets and have been successfully keeping out the small man for decades. There is no profit in cures, there is LOTS of profit in treatment for cures and even more profit in making up new diseases...as they currently do now.

The Drugging Of America baby...gotta love Capitalism on Steroids!

Do you ever get tired of thinking up excuses where you can blame some big faceless entity for a problem?
High medical costs? Big Pharma.
High energy costs? Big Oil.
High Unemployment? Big corporations.
COrruption in Government? Big corporations.
Discrimination? Big Whitey.
etc etc.

It must really be sad to be you, a mere pawn in the game of life at the mercy of every two bit combine, trust, or conspiracy in the world.

Rabbi's Response:
High medical costs? The Gubmint.
High energy costs? The Gubmint.
High unemployment? The Gubmint.
Corruption in Government? The Gubmint.
Discrimination? Doesn't exist.

Is there anything that woes anyone whose blame you can't place squarely on the Gubmint?

I'm still trying to figure out what that last sentence means.
I'll let Ronnie explain it to you, meathead.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ixNPplo-SU[/ame]

 

[Cuyo]

Because it's a litigious society and everybody wants to sue the hell out of everybody else for every freaking little scratch they get. Makes for bad premium increases and richer lawyers. End of story.

That is a very good point.

Mal Pracitce is a big cost to a doctor as it pertains to his/her overall practice proifit...usually about 20%.
My father in law was a pdiatrician and his profit was 500K and his mal pracitve insurance cost him 125K a year
But, when you pass that 125K over the amount of patients......he had hundreds....it is less than $750 per patient...
But there is no doubt that somethig is askew that Obama, Reiud and Pelosi did not include tort reform in the bill turned law...and it botherted me that my two senators refused to explain to me why...From Gillibrand I got a nice little...."we will look into it and get back to you"...and from Schumer I got a note saying "there were many intitiaves that we could not put in the bill. We were limited by the opposition"
Really chuck? You wanted tort repofrm and the GOP didnt?
Do they even fucking read our emails?

Tort damages don't make up a significant portion of overall HC cost. That was thoroughly debunked last year. Tort reform would have targeted somewhere between a 0.5%-2% reduction in overall costs, depending on who you ask. There are far more effective ways of reducing costs before resorting to eliminating consumer protections - And yes, the right to sue is a consumer protection, and is something we are all entitled to. If a lawsuit is bogus it should be thrown out. But when someone is killed or maimed due to malpractice or reckless disregard of a doctor, who gets to set an arbitrary limit on what their life was worth? What message does that send to doctors?

 

[The Rabbi]

That is a very good point.

Mal Pracitce is a big cost to a doctor as it pertains to his/her overall practice proifit...usually about 20%.
My father in law was a pdiatrician and his profit was 500K and his mal pracitve insurance cost him 125K a year
But, when you pass that 125K over the amount of patients......he had hundreds....it is less than $750 per patient...
But there is no doubt that somethig is askew that Obama, Reiud and Pelosi did not include tort reform in the bill turned law...and it botherted me that my two senators refused to explain to me why...From Gillibrand I got a nice little...."we will look into it and get back to you"...and from Schumer I got a note saying "there were many intitiaves that we could not put in the bill. We were limited by the opposition"
Really chuck? You wanted tort repofrm and the GOP didnt?
Do they even fucking read our emails?

Tort damages don't make up a significant portion of overall HC cost. That was thoroughly debunked last year. Tort reform would have targeted somewhere between a 0.5%-2% reduction in overall costs, depending on who you ask. There are far more effective ways of reducing costs before resorting to eliminating consumer protections - And yes, the right to sue is a consumer protection, and is something we are all entitled to. If a lawsuit is bogus it should be thrown out. But when someone is killed or maimed due to malpractice or reckless disregard of a doctor, who gets to set an arbitrary limit on what their life was worth? What message does that send to doctors?

No,a ctually it wasn't "debunked." It is the truth. Even though tort damage awards are very small the threat of suits drives the practice of medicine every day. As my two brothers, both doctors, have told me: No one has ever been sued for ordering too many tests. "Defensive medicine" is the norm. Defense from what? From lawsuit, that's what. That itself probably accounts for 30% of medical costs.

 

[Cuyo]

Do you ever get tired of thinking up excuses where you can blame some big faceless entity for a problem?
High medical costs? Big Pharma.
High energy costs? Big Oil.
High Unemployment? Big corporations.
COrruption in Government? Big corporations.
Discrimination? Big Whitey.
etc etc.

It must really be sad to be you, a mere pawn in the game of life at the mercy of every two bit combine, trust, or conspiracy in the world.

Rabbi's Response:
High medical costs? The Gubmint.
High energy costs? The Gubmint.
High unemployment? The Gubmint.
Corruption in Government? The Gubmint.
Discrimination? Doesn't exist.

Is there anything that woes anyone whose blame you can't place squarely on the Gubmint?

I'm still trying to figure out what that last sentence means.
I'll let Ronnie explain it to you, meathead.

I think you wanna name airports after him, just so you can scream "I'M COMING INTO REAGAN!"

Reagan was an unmitigated disaster. I didn't watch your clip because I can't think of a person whose logic I could be less interested in.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi's Response:
High medical costs? The Gubmint.
High energy costs? The Gubmint.
High unemployment? The Gubmint.
Corruption in Government? The Gubmint.
Discrimination? Doesn't exist.

Is there anything that woes anyone whose blame you can't place squarely on the Gubmint?

I'm still trying to figure out what that last sentence means.
I'll let Ronnie explain it to you, meathead.

I think you wanna name airports after him, just so you can scream "I'M COMING INTO REAGAN!"

Reagan was an unmitigated disaster. I didn't watch your clip because I can't think of a person whose logic I could be less interested in.

Actually there's already an airport named after him. You didnt watch the clip because you're a partisan clown Demo-party boy hack.

 

[Cuyo]

Mal Pracitce is a big cost to a doctor as it pertains to his/her overall practice proifit...usually about 20%.
My father in law was a pdiatrician and his profit was 500K and his mal pracitve insurance cost him 125K a year
But, when you pass that 125K over the amount of patients......he had hundreds....it is less than $750 per patient...
But there is no doubt that somethig is askew that Obama, Reiud and Pelosi did not include tort reform in the bill turned law...and it botherted me that my two senators refused to explain to me why...From Gillibrand I got a nice little...."we will look into it and get back to you"...and from Schumer I got a note saying "there were many intitiaves that we could not put in the bill. We were limited by the opposition"
Really chuck? You wanted tort repofrm and the GOP didnt?
Do they even fucking read our emails?

Tort damages don't make up a significant portion of overall HC cost. That was thoroughly debunked last year. Tort reform would have targeted somewhere between a 0.5%-2% reduction in overall costs, depending on who you ask. There are far more effective ways of reducing costs before resorting to eliminating consumer protections - And yes, the right to sue is a consumer protection, and is something we are all entitled to. If a lawsuit is bogus it should be thrown out. But when someone is killed or maimed due to malpractice or reckless disregard of a doctor, who gets to set an arbitrary limit on what their life was worth? What message does that send to doctors?

No,a ctually it wasn't "debunked." It is the truth. Even though tort damage awards are very small the threat of suits drives the practice of medicine every day. As my two brothers, both doctors, have told me: No one has ever been sued for ordering too many tests. "Defensive medicine" is the norm. Defense from what? From lawsuit, that's what. That itself probably accounts for 30% of medical costs.

Touche'. There's probably an added cost for defensive medicine. I doubt it's 30%, and maybe it's not always a bad thing. Telling doctors "Hey don't worry about it, no matter how bad you fuck up Uncle Sam's got your back" ain't always gonna be a good thing either.

 

[Cuyo]

I'm still trying to figure out what that last sentence means.
I'll let Ronnie explain it to you, meathead.

I think you wanna name airports after him, just so you can scream "I'M COMING INTO REAGAN!"

Reagan was an unmitigated disaster. I didn't watch your clip because I can't think of a person whose logic I could be less interested in.

Actually there's already an airport named after him. You didnt watch the clip because you're a partisan clown Demo-party boy hack.

I'm familiar with ol' Ronnie's "The government is the problem, not the solution" banter. I don't need to watch it.

It's easy to believe, isn't it? Doesn't it make you feel tough to follow that line of thinking, that you don't need no stinkin gubmint! No, not you, you're better off on your own!

That's why you and so many other mental midgets followed him off the cliff. Can't ignore that primitive reptilian reactionary part of your brain.

 

[Greenbeard]

"Defensive medicine" is the norm. Defense from what? From lawsuit, that's what. That itself probably accounts for 30% of medical costs.

Or 2.4% of national spending.

But perhaps we'd have a better idea of the effectiveness of different malpractice reform ideas if only states would experiment with them. If only more than half of all states had implemented some form of collateral source rule reform. If only the same was true of joint and several liability rule reform. If only states would cap damages which, aside from this map of state damage caps enacted since 1986, nobody seems to have done!

And yet here we find ourselves in this sad situation in which malpractice reform has never been attempted by anyone anywhere. Ever.

 

[Christopher]

"Defensive medicine" is the norm. Defense from what? From lawsuit, that's what. That itself probably accounts for 30% of medical costs.

Or 2.4% of national spending.

But perhaps we'd have a better idea of the effectiveness of different malpractice reform ideas if only states would experiment with them. If only more than half of all states had implemented some form of collateral source rule reform. If only the same was true of joint and several liability rule reform. If only states would cap damages which, aside from this map of state damage caps enacted since 1986, nobody seems to have done!

And yet here we find ourselves in this sad situation in which malpractice reform has never been attempted by anyone anywhere. Ever.

Why did Canada implement tort reform, specifically for capping damages for pain and suffering? I am asking this honestly, because I have seen so much about tort reform and its lack of effectiveness, including from the CBO. If it is so ineffective, why does Canada have a cap on damages for pain and suffering?

Canada keeps malpractice cost in check - St. Petersburg Times
For neurosurgeons in Miami, the annual cost of medical malpractice insurance is astronomical — $237,000, far more than the median price of a house.

In Toronto, a neurosurgeon pays about $29,200 for coverage. It's even less in Montreal ($20,600) and Vancouver ($10,650).

The costs are strikingly different, largely because of the ways in which Canada insures doctors and protects those who are sued:

• In 1978, the Canadian Supreme Court limited damages for pain and suffering. Adjusted for inflation, the cap now is just over $300,000. The United States has no federal cap on damages, though a few states, including Florida, have imposed them.

• Instead of buying insurance from a for-profit company, as most U.S. doctors do, Canadian physicians are covered through their membership in the nonprofit Canadian Medical Protective Association.

 

[snjmom]

Benefits

Lower health care costs
The CMPA has been credited with helping to control health care costs in Canada by enabling Canadian physicians to avoid the practice of "defensive medicine" such as performing duplicate tests and completing extensive documentation as a shield against malpractice claims [3]. Importantly, the typical cost of medical malpractice insurance in Canada is about one-tenth of that in the United States [4].

Lower medical liability costs in Canada can be attributed to many factors, among them:

fewer claims in Canada, due in part to the fact that the loser pays the legal costs to the winner;
lower compensation levels for harm and relatively small punitive damage awards;
fewer lawyers, and contingency fees are either discouraged or prohibited in Canada; and
approximately 95 percent of physicians in Canada belong to the CMPA, resulting in few private insurance companies offering malpractice insurance in Canada.

I can't see any of the bolded flying in the lower 48.

CMPA was incorporated by Act of Parliament.

Obamacare?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

No Einstein, like the tons and tons of mental diseases that they now have tons and tons of handy dandy pills to keep the fools placated...like ADD, ADHD, all sorts of made up crap...that they just happen to have a litanny of pillsto rememdy...as long as you keep poppin' those pills.

Absolutely

 

[Nighthawk62]

The AARP is a corrupt organization. They sold the senoirs out for ObamaCare and supported the gutting of funding for the Medicare Advantage programs that are offered to seniors by their competitors.

"That’s because 20 percent of patients account for 80 percent of spending, and that 20 percent is made up mostly of the chronically ill."

“Indeed, perhaps the most significant reason Americans are drowning in health care debt may shock you: Americans are getting far too much unnecessary care. Of our total $2.3 trillion health care bill last year, a whopping $500 billion to $700 billion (30%) was spent on treatments, tests, and hospitalizations that did nothing to improve our health. Even worse, new evidence suggests that too much health care may actually be killing us.”
Even as millions aren’t getting treatments they vitally need, a leading medical journalist argues that the main culprit in the soaring cost of American health care is actually overtreatment… and all that extra care is making us very sick.

$500 BILLION: The amount that Americans spend annually on unnecessary care.

30,000: The number of Medicare recipients who die each year as a result of unneeded care.

50%: The portion of surgeries, tests, and procedures that are not backed by scientific evidence.

Consumers aren’t shopping wisely. The moral-hazard argument says that because people don’t pay out of pocket, they use more-expensive health care than necessary. Moral hazard says we go to the doctor when we don’t really need to; we insist on getting a CT scan for a twisted ankle when ice and an Ace bandage will do. Experts will tell you that as many as one in four doctor’s-office visits are “social calls,” and nearly half of emergency room visits are for care that could have been handled in a nonemergency setting. But even this argument doesn’t explain why health care costs so much. That’s because 20 percent of patients account for 80 percent of spending, and that 20 percent is made up mostly of the chronically ill. These patients are often sick with multiple conditions—such as diabetes, heart disease, and high blood pressure—and more than half of the money we devote to caring for them is spent when they are in the hospital. People who are sick enough to be hospitalized are generally too ill to be insisting on certain tests or procedures.

Indeed, perhaps the most significant reason Americans are drowning in health care debt may shock you: Americans are getting far too much unnecessary care. Of our total $2.3 trillion health care bill last year, a whopping $500 billion to $700 billion was spent on treatments, tests, and hospitalizations that did nothing to improve our health. Even worse, new evidence suggests that too much health care may actually be killing us.
According to estimates by Elliott Fisher, M.D., a noted Dartmouth researcher, unnecessary care leads to the deaths of as many as 30,000 Medicare recipients annually.

Source: AARP Magazine

Wonderful. AARP went in the bag for Obamacare and is now ready to throw it's members under the bus. This is typical of the supporters of Obama. They cannot admit they are wrong so they've gone off the deep end for this guy.
Now, as far as the article is concerned...why are none of the statistics sourced? Where did these numbers come from? Who did the research?

The article suggests 100 people per day are dropping dead from "overtesting". HUH?
Look, there are cases where very sick people with multiple afflictions are getting massive amounts of medical care that probably will not extend the lifeof the patient but will make them a little more comfortable and allow them to die with dignity.
The expense of taking care of these patients is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things.
The real problem is abuse of the system by folks who have minor ailments that will call 9-1-1 for a ride to the hospital for a cough.
Then there are the people who are self destructive. These are the drug abusers, those who will not use proper safety equipment on their jobs. The gang bangers who get stabbed and shot. Most children born out of wedlock are to uninsured patients.
That birth in the hospital is written off and then added to the cost of premiums for insured patients.
Now, the insurance carriers are responsible as well. These companies pay for treatments at not what are market rates but at rates set in negotiations with hospitals.
Medicare for example has dropped the rate of reimbursement. SO the cost to the patient does not change( which is counted in the statistics) the write off by the medical professional just gets larger.
Nobody really can produce accurate statistics as to the actual cost of health care in the US. One thing is clear, the system is not perfect. IMO we should have a pay as you go system which would increase competition between medical providers which would in turn lower prices. Eliminating insurance "networks" would also lower costs to consumers because the patient could shop around for the best deal for care.
Now, the most frigtening aspect of the health care debate is the spectre of a government take over of the system. With the government setting prices , more or less fixing the marketplace, the costs stay the same or continue to rise. What occurs is the marketplace shrinks as health providers leave the industry. Fewer doctors and fewer facilities means care MUST become rationed. In other words largely unavailable.