Why does the right defend the wealthy class

[Dad2three]

Thom Hartmann: How America Killed Its Middle Class

Not a big fan of Alternet.....but this one makes a statement I think begs a question.

Piketty is right, especially about the importance of high marginal tax rates and inheritance taxes being necessary for the creation of a middle class that includes working-class people. Progressive taxation, when done correctly, pushes wages down to working people and reduces the incentives for the very rich to pillage their companies or rip off their workers. After all, why take another billion when 91 percent of it just going to be paid in taxes?

This is the main reason why, when GM was our largest employer and our working class were also in the middle class, CEOs only took home 30 times what working people did. The top tax rate for all the time America's middle class was created was between 74 and 91 percent. Until, of course, Reagan dropped it to 28 percent and working people moved from the middle class to becoming the working poor.

#############################

So, as we continue to let the rich just go nuts...what is it that isn't there to prevent them.

Why does the far right vote to protect the interest of the rich ?

The answer lies, in part, in the fact that the far left is no better. First, they suck off the rich like others.

Next, they won't make a rational case. They need conservatives to join them. And yet they, like some of the assholes on this board, do nothing but antagonize them.

And the rich just eat it up......

######################################

This thread originally got moved to Europe because I led in with an article about the European middle class.

But the comparison is bright as the day is long.

I bash the left.

I bash the right.

Regardless, this is a huge issue in my mind.

Now, if the left starts squawking about how the rich screw them over...I'd ask how they get away with it. They only get away with it because the government protects them.

The right yells...hands off. But this article flies in the face of that.

The rich do not need defended. The rich, are the people who create jobs, who produce wealth, who make the economy go around.

Why do you attack the people who feed, clothe, and build everything you want in life?

I have to ask why you index to this position on my point of view.

People can become rich.

I want more people to be rich.

Somehow, my view of the world and economics says that in a well functioning economy.....

If there is 1,000,000,000 in wealth to be had, I would think that NATURAL economics would say that we should see

1,000 millionaires

not 1 billionaire.

What I am saying is that the way things are set up....NATURAL economics do not function because GOVERNMENT is a complicit ally to the rich in protecting their ability to continue to garner wealth.

GOVERNMENT is "We The People".

We are allowing this to happen.

First off, it's government duty to protect property rights. So in that aspect is most certainly is the job of government to defend the rich growing their wealth.

The moment you allow government to deny property rights to one group, they will be able to deny property rights to any group, including yourself. Look at Soviet Russia. Everyone thought that the communists would only take the property of the super wealthy..... when that wealth was gone, they started confiscating everything else. And when that was gone, forced labor in Gulags, was the natural result.

Same thing is happening in Venezuela. First they confiscated major international corporation property, then local corporations property, and now they are confiscating anything they want. When that runs out, who knows how far the socialist government in Venezuela will go.

And honestly, in a free-market capitalists system, the super wealthy can't 'monopolize' all the wealth in the country. If you go to socialized system, where government controls the wealth, they do. Chinese state owned companies, run by family members of Communist officials for 50 years.

But can you name the super wealthy US history? Likely not. Who here know the names Cyrus Field, Jay Gould, and Russell Sage? Likely none. But these are the "robber barons" of the past who supposedly controlled all the wealth in society. What happened? I thought they controlled all the wealth, and the government was assisting them?

Apparently they didn't control everything, and apparently the government didn't assist them.

Lastly, there is no reason to assume that in a natural economic situation, that we would see anything. That's all assumption, and wrong.

In a free economic situation, those with more abilities will get paid more, than those without. Those who choose to do things in high demand, will get paid more than those who choose to do things with low demand. And those who work more, and work smarter, and work harder, will get paid more than those who work less, work easy, and work unwisely.

In short, if everyone does high value jobs extremely well, then you will see dozens of millionaires. If only few do so, and most sit around on welfare waiting for government to fix their lives, then you will see a few billionaires and dozens of poor people.

Ironically, our system better matches what you claim it should be, than any other. You look at China prior to 1978, and what you describe as bad, is exactly what they got. Just a few people at the top of the government, and state owned companies, living like royalty, while 63% of the country lived impoverished, at $2 a day.

Our system has allowed more people in our country to be wealthy, than any other system. We have the largest number of wealthy individuals relative to population, than anywhere else in the world. You have a better chance of being a billionaire in the US, than you do in any other country.

And quite frankly, if you earn $31,000 a year, you are in the top 1% of wage earners in the entire world. So in all honestly, complaining about the system that affords you a luxurious life style that 99% of the planet can only dream about... just makes you a spoiled brat. I have no problem with the wealthy, and no problem our system. Go live 1 year in South / Central America, Eastern Europe, most of Asia, and then tell me how horrible our system is.

YOU KNOW CONservative economics is a failure when you MUST compare it to the 3rd world nations!

LYING POS



The 15 most billionaire-dense countries

1. Monaco


Number of billionaires: 3

Population: 37,800

Population per one billionaires: 12,600






13. United States

Number of billionaires: 536

Population: 321,369,000

Population per one billionaires: 599,569


EVEN IF THE GOALS WAS TO BECOME A BILLIONAIRE YOU DUMBFUKK

Countries ranked by billionaires in proportion to population - Business Insider

 

[2aguy]

Because we don't hate people simply because they have more money than us...

 

[Andylusion]

What's a "wealthy class"?

Heres a good place to start.

Richest 1% to own more than rest of world by 2016

So what ?

Why don't you tell us how that happened.

"So what" Care to share with us what you thought of it other than "So what"?

It's irrelevant and unimportant.

Why do I care how much wealth someone else has? There is only one reason I can come up with why I should bother even considering how much money *YOU* for example have. And that would be if I am greedy, or envious of the money *YOU* have. Since I am not greedy or envious of how much money you have......... "So what" is a fairly decent response.

We don't care. Why should we?

The stock market could crash next week, and Warren Buffet could lose a Billion dollars net worth. You know what effect that will have on me, my family, my relatives, friends, co-workers, neighbors or anyone? Zero. None. My 2003 Grand Marquis is not going to magically turn into a BMW 2015 convertible because Buffet lost a billion dollars.

The stock market could drastically increase next week, and Buffet could gain a billion dollars net worth. You think I'll wake up tomorrow and find my spare bedroom on my condo magically disappeared? Darn you buffet!!!! Of course not.

I don't hate people because they succeed in life. The only reason I could possibly care how much wealth, wealthy people have... is if I was greedy, envious, and hate filled at them for having wealthy.

I'm not. So the proper, and best simple reply is:

So what?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What's a "wealthy class"?

Heres a good place to start.

Richest 1% to own more than rest of world by 2016

So what ?

Why don't you tell us how that happened.

It would take several pages to tell how it happened, BUTT lets just say that I would put top marginal tax rates at the 74 percent pre gipper rate.

I would also take the cap off of social security AND repeal BOcare and replace it with Medicare for all.Hope that helps.

You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? How would that work?

You do know that Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients, don't you? Hospitals and doctors make up the loss when they get cash or private insured people. Take private insured patents out of the mix, and you have closed down facilities which happened so many times in the past. It's one of the reasons our health insurance increased so much the last couple of decades.

Where did you get this s***?

“You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? “?

Actually, According to the Medicare trustees report that the filed in 2015 “Medicare’s Hospital Insurance trust fund will remain solvent that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides through 2030. “

as for as “Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients.“

YES! that’s one of the reasons that UnitedHealth Group CEO’s Stephen J. Hemsley received $66.13 million in compensation last year.

UnitedHealth Group healthcare sells supplement insurance to seniors as well as Medicare Advantage insurance, a bundling of plans Part A (Hospital Insurance) and Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) and sometimes plan D(prescription drug coverage (Part D)under the banner of AARP.

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

 

[Dad2three]

Heres a good place to start.

Richest 1% to own more than rest of world by 2016

So what ?

Why don't you tell us how that happened.

It would take several pages to tell how it happened, BUTT lets just say that I would put top marginal tax rates at the 74 percent pre gipper rate.

I would also take the cap off of social security AND repeal BOcare and replace it with Medicare for all.Hope that helps.

You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? How would that work?

You do know that Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients, don't you? Hospitals and doctors make up the loss when they get cash or private insured people. Take private insured patents out of the mix, and you have closed down facilities which happened so many times in the past. It's one of the reasons our health insurance increased so much the last couple of decades.

Where did you get this s***?

“You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? “?

Actually, According to the Medicare trustees report that the filed in 2015 “Medicare’s Hospital Insurance trust fund will remain solvent that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides through 2030. “

as for as “Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients.“

YES! that’s one of the reasons that UnitedHealth Group CEO’s Stephen J. Hemsley received $66.13 million in compensation last year.

UnitedHealth Group healthcare sells supplement insurance to seniors as well as Medicare Advantage insurance, a bundling of plans Part A (Hospital Insurance) and Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) and sometimes plan D(prescription drug coverage (Part D)under the banner of AARP.

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Critics who want radical changes in Medicare, the public insurance program for the elderly and disabled, often allege that the program is heading for disaster because stingy payments from the government are causing a rising number of doctors to refuse to serve Medicare patients.


In the critics’ most dire scenarios, baby boomers nearing retirement age could find that their current doctors are no longer willing to treat them under Medicare and that other doctors are turning them down as well. Those concerns have always been greatly exaggerated. Now a new analysis by experts at the Department of Health and Human Services should demolish that mythology for good.




The analysts looked at seven years of federal survey data and found that doctors are not fleeing Medicare in droves; in fact, the percentage of doctors accepting new Medicare patients actually rose to 90.7 percent in 2012 from 87.9 percent in 2005. They are not shunning Medicare patients for better-paying private patients, either; the percentage of doctors accepting new Medicare patients in recent years was slightly higher than the percentage accepting new privately insured patients.

Medicare patients had comparable or better access to medical services than the access reported by privately insured individuals ages 50 to 64, who are just below the age for Medicare eligibility. Surveys sponsored by the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, an independent agency that advises Congress, found that 77 percent of the Medicare patients — compared with only 72 percent of privately insured patients — said they never had an unreasonably long wait for a routine doctor’s appointment last year.

The findings from this survey and others can be sliced and diced in many ways. But the overall picture is clear: nationwide there is no shortage of doctors for Medicare patients. It is likely to stay that way, because Medicare is a big insurer that few medical practices can afford to ignore.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/opinion/sunday/doctors-and-their-medicare-patients.html

 

[Dad2three]

What's a "wealthy class"?

Heres a good place to start.

Richest 1% to own more than rest of world by 2016

So what ?

Why don't you tell us how that happened.

"So what" Care to share with us what you thought of it other than "So what"?

It's irrelevant and unimportant.

Why do I care how much wealth someone else has? There is only one reason I can come up with why I should bother even considering how much money *YOU* for example have. And that would be if I am greedy, or envious of the money *YOU* have. Since I am not greedy or envious of how much money you have......... "So what" is a fairly decent response.

We don't care. Why should we?

The stock market could crash next week, and Warren Buffet could lose a Billion dollars net worth. You know what effect that will have on me, my family, my relatives, friends, co-workers, neighbors or anyone? Zero. None. My 2003 Grand Marquis is not going to magically turn into a BMW 2015 convertible because Buffet lost a billion dollars.

The stock market could drastically increase next week, and Buffet could gain a billion dollars net worth. You think I'll wake up tomorrow and find my spare bedroom on my condo magically disappeared? Darn you buffet!!!! Of course not.

I don't hate people because they succeed in life. The only reason I could possibly care how much wealth, wealthy people have... is if I was greedy, envious, and hate filled at them for having wealthy.

I'm not. So the proper, and best simple reply is:

So what?

"The income of the top 1 percent nearly quadrupled from 1979 to 2007, but the typical family’s incomes barely budged.”


The Progressive Influence: Income Disparity And The Sad Politifact Reader: "Facts Are Stubborn Things"

Yeah, greed and envy *shaking head*

 

[sealybobo]

Thom Hartmann: How America Killed Its Middle Class

Not a big fan of Alternet.....but this one makes a statement I think begs a question.

Piketty is right, especially about the importance of high marginal tax rates and inheritance taxes being necessary for the creation of a middle class that includes working-class people. Progressive taxation, when done correctly, pushes wages down to working people and reduces the incentives for the very rich to pillage their companies or rip off their workers. After all, why take another billion when 91 percent of it just going to be paid in taxes?

This is the main reason why, when GM was our largest employer and our working class were also in the middle class, CEOs only took home 30 times what working people did. The top tax rate for all the time America's middle class was created was between 74 and 91 percent. Until, of course, Reagan dropped it to 28 percent and working people moved from the middle class to becoming the working poor.

#############################

So, as we continue to let the rich just go nuts...what is it that isn't there to prevent them.

Why does the far right vote to protect the interest of the rich ?

The answer lies, in part, in the fact that the far left is no better. First, they suck off the rich like others.

Next, they won't make a rational case. They need conservatives to join them. And yet they, like some of the assholes on this board, do nothing but antagonize them.

And the rich just eat it up......

######################################

This thread originally got moved to Europe because I led in with an article about the European middle class.

But the comparison is bright as the day is long.

I bash the left.

I bash the right.

Regardless, this is a huge issue in my mind.

Now, if the left starts squawking about how the rich screw them over...I'd ask how they get away with it. They only get away with it because the government protects them.

The right yells...hands off. But this article flies in the face of that.

We need to change the conversation from what's fair to what works. Our tax code and political systems are out of wack. Citizens united is a great example of how the rich have completely taken over our country.

Want change? Vote. How'd they get away with it? We don't vote.

Who votes? 30-50% of us. The RICHEST Americans.

 

[realinvestment]

Thom Hartmann: How America Killed Its Middle Class



So, as we continue to let the rich just go nuts...what is it that isn't there to prevent them.

Why does the far right vote to protect the interest of the rich ?

The answer lies, in part, in the fact that the far left is no better. First, they suck off the rich like others.





.

The rich are a very diverse group. Some work for living, putting in lots of hours. Others employ people using their own investment money.

Others are passive investors engaging in tax avoidance, or living on inherited money.

 

[Dad2three]

What's a "wealthy class"?

Heres a good place to start.

Richest 1% to own more than rest of world by 2016

So what ?

Why don't you tell us how that happened.

"So what" Care to share with us what you thought of it other than "So what"?

It's irrelevant and unimportant.

Why do I care how much wealth someone else has? There is only one reason I can come up with why I should bother even considering how much money *YOU* for example have. And that would be if I am greedy, or envious of the money *YOU* have. Since I am not greedy or envious of how much money you have......... "So what" is a fairly decent response.

We don't care. Why should we?

The stock market could crash next week, and Warren Buffet could lose a Billion dollars net worth. You know what effect that will have on me, my family, my relatives, friends, co-workers, neighbors or anyone? Zero. None. My 2003 Grand Marquis is not going to magically turn into a BMW 2015 convertible because Buffet lost a billion dollars.

The stock market could drastically increase next week, and Buffet could gain a billion dollars net worth. You think I'll wake up tomorrow and find my spare bedroom on my condo magically disappeared? Darn you buffet!!!! Of course not.

I don't hate people because they succeed in life. The only reason I could possibly care how much wealth, wealthy people have... is if I was greedy, envious, and hate filled at them for having wealthy.

I'm not. So the proper, and best simple reply is:

So what?

Wealth is a Zero-Sum Game



Conservative damagogues like Limbaugh have been able to convince the public that the huge incomes of the wealthiest Americans are irrelevant to those who make moderate-to-low incomes. They even suggest that the more money the wealthiest Americans make, the more wealth will trickle down to the lower classes.

If you've swallowed this line of conservative garbage, get ready to vomit. As all conservative economists know, and deny to the public that they know, wealth is a zero-sum game. That is true at both the front end—when income is divided up, and the back end—when it is spent.

The Front End of Zero-Sum: Dividing the Loot


There is only so much corporate income in a given year. The more of that income that is used to pay workers, the less profit the corporation makes. The less profit, the less the stock goes up. The less the stock goes up, the less the CEO and the investors make. It’s as simple as that. Profit equals income minus expenses. No more, no less. Subtract the right side of the equation from the left side and the answer is always zero. Hence the term, “zero-sum.”

So, to the extent a corporation can keep from sharing the wealth with workers—the ones who created the wealth to begin with—investors and executives get a bigger slice of the income pie and become richer.


The Zero-sum Nature of economics

-

TOP 1/10TH OF 1% GET OVER HALF OF ALL CAPITAL GAINS/DIVIDENDS IN THE US.


The Top 0.1% Of The Nation Earn Half Of All Capital Gains

 

[jasonnfree]

Sunday, the first day of the new week and time again for republican/conservative working stiffs to defend the wealthiest people and corporations on the planet, while blaming America's economic downfall on the decent wages fought for by labor unions, and by poor people getting foodstamps and other little scraps thrown to them. Like Jay Gould sez, "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half".

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The moment you allow government to deny property rights to one group, they will be able to deny property rights to any group, including yourself. Look at Soviet Russia. Everyone thought that the communists would only take the property of the super wealthy..... when that wealth was gone, they started confiscating everything else. And when that was gone, forced labor in Gulags, was the natural result.

Same thing is happening in Venezuela. First they confiscated major international corporation property, then local corporations property, and now they are confiscating anything they want. When that runs out, who knows how far the socialist government in Venezuela will go.

I know people who are related to the wealthy class in Venezuela.

We've discussed Chavez on several occasions.

Their take:

What goes on there is not reported as it is.

They actually support what has happened and say that it has lifted many people out of poverty.

I am not defending it.

I am saying that I have counter claims from people who have relatives who are living it who say it is not what the press says it is.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Our system has allowed more people in our country to be wealthy, than any other system. We have the largest number of wealthy individuals relative to population, than anywhere else in the world. You have a better chance of being a billionaire in the US, than you do in any other country.

And quite frankly, if you earn $31,000 a year, you are in the top 1% of wage earners in the entire world. So in all honestly, complaining about the system that affords you a luxurious life style that 99% of the planet can only dream about... just makes you a spoiled brat. I have no problem with the wealthy, and no problem our system. Go live 1 year in South / Central America, Eastern Europe, most of Asia, and then tell me how horrible our system is.

Why do you think I am arguing against the system ? I am arguing against how the system has been surpressed and abused by the government and wealthy class.

I don't argue against your claim about wealth, but the distribution is not going the direction as it should (and that is not a moral claim...it is a natural claim...economics teaches that is the way it should work).

As to the rest....why are you lecturing me (or anyone else about that). I am much better off than 31,000 a year.

This is about the system my children are now working and what my grandchildren will someday be in.

I'd have no issues with the current situation if it were natural. But you seem to be unwilling to admit that big business and government work hand in hand. Are you going to debate how they are not....or just lecture.

Nobody is complaining except to ask a question. And you return this tripe ?

These are nothing but talking points that, frankly, don't apply here.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The right, wants a more free-market capitalist based system.

Pure garbage.

It's been their mantra for years all the while not at all behaving like it is true.

The issue of health insurance (and health care delivery) has been around for 30 years and the right has done nothing but allow the status quo to continue.

Conservatives want a more free market system.

But if you think conservative means far right...you'd be a fool.

 

[jasonnfree]

Heres a good place to start.

Richest 1% to own more than rest of world by 2016

So what ?

Why don't you tell us how that happened.

It would take several pages to tell how it happened, BUTT lets just say that I would put top marginal tax rates at the 74 percent pre gipper rate.

I would also take the cap off of social security AND repeal BOcare and replace it with Medicare for all.Hope that helps.

You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? How would that work?

You do know that Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients, don't you? Hospitals and doctors make up the loss when they get cash or private insured people. Take private insured patents out of the mix, and you have closed down facilities which happened so many times in the past. It's one of the reasons our health insurance increased so much the last couple of decades.

Where did you get this s***?

“You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? “?

Actually, According to the Medicare trustees report that the filed in 2015 “Medicare’s Hospital Insurance trust fund will remain solvent that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides through 2030. “

as for as “Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients.“

YES! that’s one of the reasons that UnitedHealth Group CEO’s Stephen J. Hemsley received $66.13 million in compensation last year.

UnitedHealth Group healthcare sells supplement insurance to seniors as well as Medicare Advantage insurance, a bundling of plans Part A (Hospital Insurance) and Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) and sometimes plan D(prescription drug coverage (Part D)under the banner of AARP.

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

The moment you allow government to deny property rights to one group, they will be able to deny property rights to any group, including yourself. Look at Soviet Russia. Everyone thought that the communists would only take the property of the super wealthy..... when that wealth was gone, they started confiscating everything else. And when that was gone, forced labor in Gulags, was the natural result.

Same thing is happening in Venezuela. First they confiscated major international corporation property, then local corporations property, and now they are confiscating anything they want. When that runs out, who knows how far the socialist government in Venezuela will go.

I know people who are related to the wealthy class in Venezuela.

We've discussed Chavez on several occasions.

Their take:

What goes on there is not reported as it is.

They actually support what has happened and say that it has lifted many people out of poverty.

I am not defending it.

I am saying that I have counter claims from people who have relatives who are living it who say it is not what the press says it is.

I have to agree. I was in Venezuela last time in 2004, was seeing chavez using the country's resources to help some of the poorest people in that country. You can see the hillside shacks as you fly in to caracas. Some of the poorest people in western hemisphere. I was looking into buying real estate at the time. Some of the business class, realtors, agreed at least somewhat with what he was trying to do. We (we, meaning bushcheney and the american oil companies,) hated chavez because he increased the costs of oil extraction by foreign countries. Less profits for oil companies is what the hatred for chavez has been.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And honestly, in a free-market capitalists system, the super wealthy can't 'monopolize' all the wealth in the country. If you go to socialized system, where government controls the wealth, they do. Chinese state owned companies, run by family members of Communist officials for 50 years.

But can you name the super wealthy US history? Likely not. Who here know the names Cyrus Field, Jay Gould, and Russell Sage? Likely none. But these are the "robber barons" of the past who supposedly controlled all the wealth in society. What happened? I thought they controlled all the wealth, and the government was assisting them?

Apparently they didn't control everything, and apparently the government didn't assist them.

These are men who died over 100 years ago !!!

What has that got to do with anything.

Government wasn't then what it is today.......

How about GM ?

How about drug companies who are protected by patents they get on medications developed, in part, with tax dollars.

What about the huge military contracts that go out to companies ? These make men wealthy.

I've listed several examples in this thread about how government has made the wealthy wealthier. If you want to dispute those....be my guest.

I worked for a multi-national that got tens of millions in grants from the federal government, garnered tax breaks, and obtained other advantages (including writing regulations for beauracrats that pretty much forced their products into certain government activities).....

How was a small guy going to compete with that ?

Answer: He wasn't.

 

[bripat9643]

Liberals/Socialists/Progressives/Communists hate both the middle class and the working class because...

they HATE the "wealthy class".

Go back to school you stupid fuck.

If you look at my posting history...that isn't me.

I am not a progressive.

But the article raises an issue I've had for a long time. The wealthy class link up with the governing class and together they screw us.

There is tons of money in D.C. It's a huge rapefest.

My attitude in life has been that no amount of beat-down is going to keep me down.

It's how I've survived for 60 years.

You covet the riches of others, I build strength in my own riches. Which, BTW, do not include money.

I am not talking about beat-down. I am talking about a legitimate conversation around taxes and spending controls.

I think the left wing morons like David42, FrancoWhackjob, Rightwinger whoever are not liberals..they are left wing nazi's who also seek to use government to reach their goals (and they hide behind the so called altruism of their goals).

Left wing nazi's? Shit, he's on to us!
rightwinger
francoHFW

All Nazis are left wing. It's impossible for someone who believes in smaller government to be a Nazi.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Liberals/Socialists/Progressives/Communists hate both the middle class and the working class because...

they HATE the "wealthy class".

Go back to school you stupid fuck.

If you look at my posting history...that isn't me.

I am not a progressive.

But the article raises an issue I've had for a long time. The wealthy class link up with the governing class and together they screw us.

There is tons of money in D.C. It's a huge rapefest.

My attitude in life has been that no amount of beat-down is going to keep me down.

It's how I've survived for 60 years.

You covet the riches of others, I build strength in my own riches. Which, BTW, do not include money.

I am not talking about beat-down. I am talking about a legitimate conversation around taxes and spending controls.

I think the left wing morons like David42, FrancoWhackjob, Rightwinger whoever are not liberals..they are left wing nazi's who also seek to use government to reach their goals (and they hide behind the so called altruism of their goals).

Left wing nazi's? Shit, he's on to us!
rightwinger
francoHFW

All Nazis are left wing. It's impossible for someone who believes in smaller government to be a Nazi.

I don't agree.....

There is a big difference between being conservative and far right.

The far right has used government for it's purposes for a long time.

GWB was a huge tool in that regard.

 

[bripat9643]

So what ?

Why don't you tell us how that happened.

It would take several pages to tell how it happened, BUTT lets just say that I would put top marginal tax rates at the 74 percent pre gipper rate.

I would also take the cap off of social security AND repeal BOcare and replace it with Medicare for all.Hope that helps.

You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? How would that work?

You do know that Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients, don't you? Hospitals and doctors make up the loss when they get cash or private insured people. Take private insured patents out of the mix, and you have closed down facilities which happened so many times in the past. It's one of the reasons our health insurance increased so much the last couple of decades.

Where did you get this s***?

“You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? “?

Actually, According to the Medicare trustees report that the filed in 2015 “Medicare’s Hospital Insurance trust fund will remain solvent that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides through 2030. “

as for as “Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients.“

YES! that’s one of the reasons that UnitedHealth Group CEO’s Stephen J. Hemsley received $66.13 million in compensation last year.

UnitedHealth Group healthcare sells supplement insurance to seniors as well as Medicare Advantage insurance, a bundling of plans Part A (Hospital Insurance) and Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) and sometimes plan D(prescription drug coverage (Part D)under the banner of AARP.

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

The moment you allow government to deny property rights to one group, they will be able to deny property rights to any group, including yourself. Look at Soviet Russia. Everyone thought that the communists would only take the property of the super wealthy..... when that wealth was gone, they started confiscating everything else. And when that was gone, forced labor in Gulags, was the natural result.

Same thing is happening in Venezuela. First they confiscated major international corporation property, then local corporations property, and now they are confiscating anything they want. When that runs out, who knows how far the socialist government in Venezuela will go.

I know people who are related to the wealthy class in Venezuela.

We've discussed Chavez on several occasions.

Their take:

What goes on there is not reported as it is.

They actually support what has happened and say that it has lifted many people out of poverty.

I am not defending it.

I am saying that I have counter claims from people who have relatives who are living it who say it is not what the press says it is.

I have to agree. I was in Venezuela last time in 2004, was seeing chavez using the country's resources to help some of the poorest people in that country. You can see the hillside shacks as you fly in to caracas. Some of the poorest people in western hemisphere. I was looking into buying real estate at the time. Some of the business class, realtors, agreed at least somewhat with what he was trying to do. We (we, meaning bushcheney and the american oil companies,) hated chavez because he increased the costs of oil extraction by foreign countries. Less profits for oil companies is what the hatred for chavez has been.

Total complete bullshit. We hated Chaves because he was a socialist dictator. Socialism is the reason for those hillside shacks. What Venezuela needs is more capitalism, not a fucking POS like Chavez and his replacement.

 

[bripat9643]

If you look at my posting history...that isn't me.

I am not a progressive.

But the article raises an issue I've had for a long time. The wealthy class link up with the governing class and together they screw us.

There is tons of money in D.C. It's a huge rapefest.

My attitude in life has been that no amount of beat-down is going to keep me down.

It's how I've survived for 60 years.

You covet the riches of others, I build strength in my own riches. Which, BTW, do not include money.

I am not talking about beat-down. I am talking about a legitimate conversation around taxes and spending controls.

I think the left wing morons like David42, FrancoWhackjob, Rightwinger whoever are not liberals..they are left wing nazi's who also seek to use government to reach their goals (and they hide behind the so called altruism of their goals).

Left wing nazi's? Shit, he's on to us!
rightwinger
francoHFW

All Nazis are left wing. It's impossible for someone who believes in smaller government to be a Nazi.

I don't agree.....

There is a big difference between being conservative and far right.

The far right has used government for it's purposes for a long time.

GWB was a huge tool in that regard.

What you are calling "far right" are actually on the left. GWB was a liberal.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

So what ?

Why don't you tell us how that happened.

It would take several pages to tell how it happened, BUTT lets just say that I would put top marginal tax rates at the 74 percent pre gipper rate.

I would also take the cap off of social security AND repeal BOcare and replace it with Medicare for all.Hope that helps.

You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? How would that work?

You do know that Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients, don't you? Hospitals and doctors make up the loss when they get cash or private insured people. Take private insured patents out of the mix, and you have closed down facilities which happened so many times in the past. It's one of the reasons our health insurance increased so much the last couple of decades.

Where did you get this s***?

“You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? “?

Actually, According to the Medicare trustees report that the filed in 2015 “Medicare’s Hospital Insurance trust fund will remain solvent that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides through 2030. “

as for as “Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients.“

YES! that’s one of the reasons that UnitedHealth Group CEO’s Stephen J. Hemsley received $66.13 million in compensation last year.

UnitedHealth Group healthcare sells supplement insurance to seniors as well as Medicare Advantage insurance, a bundling of plans Part A (Hospital Insurance) and Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) and sometimes plan D(prescription drug coverage (Part D)under the banner of AARP.

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

The moment you allow government to deny property rights to one group, they will be able to deny property rights to any group, including yourself. Look at Soviet Russia. Everyone thought that the communists would only take the property of the super wealthy..... when that wealth was gone, they started confiscating everything else. And when that was gone, forced labor in Gulags, was the natural result.

Same thing is happening in Venezuela. First they confiscated major international corporation property, then local corporations property, and now they are confiscating anything they want. When that runs out, who knows how far the socialist government in Venezuela will go.

I know people who are related to the wealthy class in Venezuela.

We've discussed Chavez on several occasions.

Their take:

What goes on there is not reported as it is.

They actually support what has happened and say that it has lifted many people out of poverty.

I am not defending it.

I am saying that I have counter claims from people who have relatives who are living it who say it is not what the press says it is.

I have to agree. I was in Venezuela last time in 2004, was seeing chavez using the country's resources to help some of the poorest people in that country. You can see the hillside shacks as you fly in to caracas. Some of the poorest people in western hemisphere. I was looking into buying real estate at the time. Some of the business class, realtors, agreed at least somewhat with what he was trying to do. We (we, meaning bushcheney and the american oil companies,) hated chavez because he increased the costs of oil extraction by foreign countries. Less profits for oil companies is what the hatred for chavez has been.

It's not that simple....

But the bottom line is that what we are hearing is not the full story.

I am not a fan of Chavez.

But, his efforts did allow for many to clear the oppression of the day.