Why does the right defend the wealthy class

[jasonnfree]

I don't agree.....

There is a big difference between being conservative and far right.

The far right has used government for it's purposes for a long time.

GWB was a huge tool in that regard.

What you are calling "far right" are actually on the left. GWB was a liberal.

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

That's pure socialist propaganda. Companies leave because the government drives them out.

Low wages in low wage countries and much bigger profits drive them out.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

It's not that simple....

But the bottom line is that what we are hearing is not the full story.

I am not a fan of Chavez.

But, his efforts did allow for many to clear the oppression of the day.

Horseshit. Venezuela is poorer than it ever was. At one time Venezuela was on of the 10 wealthiest nations in the world.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Our poor are better off than the middle class are in Europe.

That is true....but just stop for minute and try to answer this honestly...

Doesn't economics teach that if you have the Buffets and Kochs making all that money...that they should be seeing competition for their profits ?

Can we start with that basic premise ?

What makes you think they don't have competition?

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

 

[bripat9643]

What you are calling "far right" are actually on the left. GWB was a liberal.

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

That's pure socialist propaganda. Companies leave because the government drives them out.

Low wages in low wage countries and much bigger profits drive them out.

Nope. High taxes and regulation drive them out. Labor intensive industries are always going to migrate to low wage countries, but even industries that are not labor intensive are leaving. Many of the manufacturing plants being setup in Mexico are totally automated.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What you are calling "far right" are actually on the left. GWB was a liberal.

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

That's pure socialist propaganda. Companies leave because the government drives them out.

Low wages in low wage countries and much bigger profits drive them out.

In many manufacturing schemes...wages are small percentage of the overall cost. And yet they still leave.

Why ?

 

[bripat9643]

Horseshit. Venezuela is poorer than it ever was. At one time Venezuela was on of the 10 wealthiest nations in the world.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Our poor are better off than the middle class are in Europe.

That is true....but just stop for minute and try to answer this honestly...

Doesn't economics teach that if you have the Buffets and Kochs making all that money...that they should be seeing competition for their profits ?

Can we start with that basic premise ?

What makes you think they don't have competition?

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

What "unfair" advantages does Wal-Mart have? Many cities will not allow Wal-Mart to build stores.

 

[Dad2three]

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

I know people who are related to the wealthy class in Venezuela.

We've discussed Chavez on several occasions.

Their take:

What goes on there is not reported as it is.

They actually support what has happened and say that it has lifted many people out of poverty.

I am not defending it.

I am saying that I have counter claims from people who have relatives who are living it who say it is not what the press says it is.

I have to agree. I was in Venezuela last time in 2004, was seeing chavez using the country's resources to help some of the poorest people in that country. You can see the hillside shacks as you fly in to caracas. Some of the poorest people in western hemisphere. I was looking into buying real estate at the time. Some of the business class, realtors, agreed at least somewhat with what he was trying to do. We (we, meaning bushcheney and the american oil companies,) hated chavez because he increased the costs of oil extraction by foreign countries. Less profits for oil companies is what the hatred for chavez has been.

It's not that simple....

But the bottom line is that what we are hearing is not the full story.

I am not a fan of Chavez.

But, his efforts did allow for many to clear the oppression of the day.

Horseshit. Venezuela is poorer than it ever was. At one time Venezuela was on of the 10 wealthiest nations in the world.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Our poor are better off than the middle class are in Europe.

MORE RIGHT WING BULLSHIT FROM YOU. Shocking

 

[Indeependent]

What drives businesses out is bipartisan legislation that ALLOWS, and REWARDS, them for moving away.
Most US businesses can write off the move (WTF!).
We are hypnotized, and under informed, that these businesses are now INTERNATIONAL corporations and do not even CONSIDER themselves US corporations, even though they gained their momentum from US consumers.
Moving to partially Totalitarian nations saves on Health Insurance, 401K management, lower wages.
The US is becoming a haven for food servers.

 

[Indeependent]

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Our poor are better off than the middle class are in Europe.

That is true....but just stop for minute and try to answer this honestly...

Doesn't economics teach that if you have the Buffets and Kochs making all that money...that they should be seeing competition for their profits ?

Can we start with that basic premise ?

What makes you think they don't have competition?

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

What "unfair" advantages does Wal-Mart have? Many cities will not allow Wal-Mart to build stores.

And many WILL.
Walmart is dominating Nassau County, a county that already has a 30+% Foreclosure Rate.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

That's pure socialist propaganda. Companies leave because the government drives them out.

Low wages in low wage countries and much bigger profits drive them out.

Nope. High taxes and regulation drive them out. Labor intensive industries are always going to migrate to low wage countries, but even industries that are not labor intensive are leaving. Many of the manufacturing plants being setup in Mexico are totally automated.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Our poor are better off than the middle class are in Europe.

That is true....but just stop for minute and try to answer this honestly...

Doesn't economics teach that if you have the Buffets and Kochs making all that money...that they should be seeing competition for their profits ?

Can we start with that basic premise ?

What makes you think they don't have competition?

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

What "unfair" advantages does Wal-Mart have? Many cities will not allow Wal-Mart to build stores.

Please try not to index to "unfair advantages" right off the bat.

My question is: Where is their competition ? That's it. Don't extrapolate.

Maybe Wal-Mart works on razor thin margins ? Let's start there.

With regard to the Koch's, I believe they own a significant number of ethanol plants. These plants are only on the map because of the government (I say that with a dated understanding....maybe things have changed).

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What drives businesses out is bipartisan legislation that ALLOWS, and REWARDS, them for moving away.
Most US businesses can write off the move (WTF!).
We are hypnotized, and under informed, that these businesses are now INTERNATIONAL corporations and do not even CONSIDER themselves US corporations, even though they gained their momentum from US consumers.
Moving to partially Totalitarian nations saves on Health Insurance, 401K management, lower wages.
The US is becoming a haven for food servers.

If the market only wants food servers...so be it. That isn't the concern.

The first part of your statement is what I find compelling and is the subject of this thread.

As these guys move off shore, they incur costs (unless they are moving closer to raw materials). But the fundamental notion is that somehow government is helping them in their business models....all the while fencing out competition.

Boeing actually had to create a department whose sole purpose was to get small buisness connected to the departments they wanted to serve. Boeing was that large....I don't begrude them that. But, it was my understanding that once this department opened, several small suppliers started finding their way into the system. They were providing value.

Then the big guys (suppliers) get annoyed and go to the top brass at Boeing...end of department.

 

[bripat9643]

Our poor are better off than the middle class are in Europe.

That is true....but just stop for minute and try to answer this honestly...

Doesn't economics teach that if you have the Buffets and Kochs making all that money...that they should be seeing competition for their profits ?

Can we start with that basic premise ?

What makes you think they don't have competition?

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

What "unfair" advantages does Wal-Mart have? Many cities will not allow Wal-Mart to build stores.

And many WILL.
Walmart is dominating Nassau County, a county that already has a 30+% Foreclosure Rate.

How is Wal-Mart responsible for that?

 

[Indeependent]

What drives businesses out is bipartisan legislation that ALLOWS, and REWARDS, them for moving away.
Most US businesses can write off the move (WTF!).
We are hypnotized, and under informed, that these businesses are now INTERNATIONAL corporations and do not even CONSIDER themselves US corporations, even though they gained their momentum from US consumers.
Moving to partially Totalitarian nations saves on Health Insurance, 401K management, lower wages.
The US is becoming a haven for food servers.

If the market only wants food servers...so be it. That isn't the concern.

The first part of your statement is what I find compelling and is the subject of this thread.

As these guys move off shore, they incur costs (unless they are moving closer to raw materials). But the fundamental notion is that somehow government is helping them in their business models....all the while fencing out competition.

Boeing actually had to create a department whose sole purpose was to get small buisness connected to the departments they wanted to serve. Boeing was that large....I don't begrude them that. But, it was my understanding that once this department opened, several small suppliers started finding their way into the system. They were providing value.

Then the big guys (suppliers) get annoyed and go to the top brass at Boeing...end of department.

You have to familiarize yourself with the write for relocating; they include relocating to nations where Health Insurance, pension management and labor laws are NOT enforced.
Legislation that ALLOWS certain business activity that reflects cost-cutting, realized vs unrealized, will assuage investors into paying more for, or retaining, stock.
The less a nation produces, the weaker that nation becomes, and our strength is heavily dependent on the ever shrinking professional middle class.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What you are calling "far right" are actually on the left. GWB was a liberal.

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

That's pure socialist propaganda. Companies leave because the government drives them out.

Low wages in low wage countries and much bigger profits drive them out.

It's more than that. Think of what it costs an employer to support employees in the US:

Unions, paid vacations, paid holidays, matching Social Security contributions from the employee, matching Medicare contributions from the employee, Unemployment insurance, Workman's compensation insurance, healthcare insurance, city taxes, county takes, state taxes, corporate taxes........

Then of course you have to consider annual wage increases to keep your employees.

After a while, many businesses find it cumbersome to maintain a business in the United States. Most companies like to produce close to their customers, so if their customers are not even in the United States, it's a no brainer to move.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All Nazis are left wing. It's impossible for someone who believes in smaller government to be a Nazi.

I don't agree.....

There is a big difference between being conservative and far right.

The far right has used government for it's purposes for a long time.

GWB was a huge tool in that regard.

What you are calling "far right" are actually on the left. GWB was a liberal.

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

Yes, now you're getting it.

It is profits before people. Nobody starts a business so you can have a good job and good benefits. No. People start businesses to make profit.

Business do not have a social obligation to the citizens or the government. Anybody that thinks business has some obligation to the population simply knows nothing about American businesses.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Where did you get this s***?

“You would replace a bad program with a program that's already going broke? “?

Actually, According to the Medicare trustees report that the filed in 2015 “Medicare’s Hospital Insurance trust fund will remain solvent that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides through 2030. “

as for as “Medicare only pays part of the bill for their patients.“

YES! that’s one of the reasons that UnitedHealth Group CEO’s Stephen J. Hemsley received $66.13 million in compensation last year.

UnitedHealth Group healthcare sells supplement insurance to seniors as well as Medicare Advantage insurance, a bundling of plans Part A (Hospital Insurance) and Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) and sometimes plan D(prescription drug coverage (Part D)under the banner of AARP.

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

The moment you allow government to deny property rights to one group, they will be able to deny property rights to any group, including yourself. Look at Soviet Russia. Everyone thought that the communists would only take the property of the super wealthy..... when that wealth was gone, they started confiscating everything else. And when that was gone, forced labor in Gulags, was the natural result.

Same thing is happening in Venezuela. First they confiscated major international corporation property, then local corporations property, and now they are confiscating anything they want. When that runs out, who knows how far the socialist government in Venezuela will go.

I know people who are related to the wealthy class in Venezuela.

We've discussed Chavez on several occasions.

Their take:

What goes on there is not reported as it is.

They actually support what has happened and say that it has lifted many people out of poverty.

I am not defending it.

I am saying that I have counter claims from people who have relatives who are living it who say it is not what the press says it is.

I have to agree. I was in Venezuela last time in 2004, was seeing chavez using the country's resources to help some of the poorest people in that country. You can see the hillside shacks as you fly in to caracas. Some of the poorest people in western hemisphere. I was looking into buying real estate at the time. Some of the business class, realtors, agreed at least somewhat with what he was trying to do. We (we, meaning bushcheney and the american oil companies,) hated chavez because he increased the costs of oil extraction by foreign countries. Less profits for oil companies is what the hatred for chavez has been.

It's not that simple....

But the bottom line is that what we are hearing is not the full story.

I am not a fan of Chavez.

But, his efforts did allow for many to clear the oppression of the day.

Horseshit. Venezuela is poorer than it ever was. At one time Venezuela was on of the 10 wealthiest nations in the world.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Who takes better care of their poor than the United States? Our poor have HUD homes in the suburb. They eat until they can't take another bite and their physique shows it. They have as many children as they desire because there are no restrictions on family size. They get free medical care--something many working Americans don't even have. They get paid utilities and even a free cell phone with 250 minutes included every month.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't agree.....

There is a big difference between being conservative and far right.

The far right has used government for it's purposes for a long time.

GWB was a huge tool in that regard.

What you are calling "far right" are actually on the left. GWB was a liberal.

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

Yes, now you're getting it.

It is profits before people. Nobody starts a business so you can have a good job and good benefits. No. People start businesses to make profit.

Business do not have a social obligation to the citizens or the government. Anybody that thinks business has some obligation to the population simply knows nothing about American businesses.

And most of the aged multi-millionaires in my three Synagogues were multi-millionaires before Reagan started the sell-out of America.
Not to mention Citibank, AT&T, Chase Manhattan, Morgan Stanley, etc...
The issue is that these businesses have bought OUR representatives and hand them legislation that REWARDS them for leaving the US or importing so-called "geniuses" to replaced Americans en-masse.

You want a Democrat in the WH, you got it.
Don't forget, there are way more non-CEOs and Directors than there are CEOs and Directors.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

I know people who are related to the wealthy class in Venezuela.

We've discussed Chavez on several occasions.

Their take:

What goes on there is not reported as it is.

They actually support what has happened and say that it has lifted many people out of poverty.

I am not defending it.

I am saying that I have counter claims from people who have relatives who are living it who say it is not what the press says it is.

I have to agree. I was in Venezuela last time in 2004, was seeing chavez using the country's resources to help some of the poorest people in that country. You can see the hillside shacks as you fly in to caracas. Some of the poorest people in western hemisphere. I was looking into buying real estate at the time. Some of the business class, realtors, agreed at least somewhat with what he was trying to do. We (we, meaning bushcheney and the american oil companies,) hated chavez because he increased the costs of oil extraction by foreign countries. Less profits for oil companies is what the hatred for chavez has been.

It's not that simple....

But the bottom line is that what we are hearing is not the full story.

I am not a fan of Chavez.

But, his efforts did allow for many to clear the oppression of the day.

Horseshit. Venezuela is poorer than it ever was. At one time Venezuela was on of the 10 wealthiest nations in the world.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Who takes better care of their poor than the United States? Our poor have HUD homes in the suburb. They eat until they can't take another bite and their physique shows it. They have as many children as they desire because there are no restrictions on family size. They get free medical care--something many working Americans don't even have. They get paid utilities and even a free cell phone with 250 minutes included every month.

Please!
The poor are subsidized by Middle Class taxes.
When the Middle Class can no longer support them, the hanging will start.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What you are calling "far right" are actually on the left. GWB was a liberal.

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

Yes, now you're getting it.

It is profits before people. Nobody starts a business so you can have a good job and good benefits. No. People start businesses to make profit.

Business do not have a social obligation to the citizens or the government. Anybody that thinks business has some obligation to the population simply knows nothing about American businesses.

And most of the aged multi-millionaires in my three Synagogues were multi-millionaires before Reagan started the sell-out of America.
Not to mention Citibank, AT&T, Chase Manhattan, Morgan Stanley, etc...
The issue is that these businesses have bought OUR representatives and hand them legislation that REWARDS them for leaving the US or importing so-called "geniuses" to replaced Americans en-masse.

You want a Democrat in the WH, you got it.
Don't forget, there are way more non-CEOs and Directors than there are CEOs and Directors.

No, that's not true. The only thing our government gives businesses that are leaving is a tax write-off for moving expenses which is petty when you consider all costs. It's not all that much money and without a doubt, certainly no incentive to leave the US.

 

[whitehall]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

That is true....but just stop for minute and try to answer this honestly...

Doesn't economics teach that if you have the Buffets and Kochs making all that money...that they should be seeing competition for their profits ?

Can we start with that basic premise ?

What makes you think they don't have competition?

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

What "unfair" advantages does Wal-Mart have? Many cities will not allow Wal-Mart to build stores.

And many WILL.
Walmart is dominating Nassau County, a county that already has a 30+% Foreclosure Rate.

How is Wal-Mart responsible for that?

Please get away from this is an "attack" Wal-Mart thread.

The question has been asked....is Wal-Mart making good money ?

If so, why are there no competitors entering the market to get that money ?

Maybe there are ?

They still make a lot of money.....

Not a crime.....

Not a sin....

But doesn't NATURAL Economics teach that should not be the case.