Why does the right defend the wealthy class

[Sun Devil 92]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

O.K......nobody said the left wasn't corrupt too.

It' the far right that speaks out both sides of it's mouth.

 

[Andylusion]

What makes you think they don't have competition?

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

What "unfair" advantages does Wal-Mart have? Many cities will not allow Wal-Mart to build stores.

And many WILL.
Walmart is dominating Nassau County, a county that already has a 30+% Foreclosure Rate.

How is Wal-Mart responsible for that?

Please get away from this is an "attack" Wal-Mart thread.

The question has been asked....is Wal-Mart making good money ?

If so, why are there no competitors entering the market to get that money ?

Maybe there are ?

They still make a lot of money.....

Not a crime.....

Not a sin....

But doesn't NATURAL Economics teach that should not be the case.

I don't even understand your point. NATURAL Economics has nothing to do with it. Nor is your claim even true. There are plenty of competitors to Walmart. We have Krogers, Giant Eagle, Meijer. So, I can even figure out your point.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I don't know what that has to do with our social systems heading for a brick wall.

Yeah, Democrats tell us not to worry. Our social safety nets are doing just fine. Sit back and don't pay any attention.

Well if they are doing just fine, why don't they pay the entire bill? And don't worry about what some CEO makes, worry more of the annual rip-offs that take place in Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery Sep 29, 3:46 AM (ET)
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

My Way News - Medicare's $30M ambulance-ride mystery

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By Greg Bengel, contributing writer

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

Number of doctors refusing to see Medicare patients triples in one year

I know people who are related to the wealthy class in Venezuela.

We've discussed Chavez on several occasions.

Their take:

What goes on there is not reported as it is.

They actually support what has happened and say that it has lifted many people out of poverty.

I am not defending it.

I am saying that I have counter claims from people who have relatives who are living it who say it is not what the press says it is.

I have to agree. I was in Venezuela last time in 2004, was seeing chavez using the country's resources to help some of the poorest people in that country. You can see the hillside shacks as you fly in to caracas. Some of the poorest people in western hemisphere. I was looking into buying real estate at the time. Some of the business class, realtors, agreed at least somewhat with what he was trying to do. We (we, meaning bushcheney and the american oil companies,) hated chavez because he increased the costs of oil extraction by foreign countries. Less profits for oil companies is what the hatred for chavez has been.

It's not that simple....

But the bottom line is that what we are hearing is not the full story.

I am not a fan of Chavez.

But, his efforts did allow for many to clear the oppression of the day.

Horseshit. Venezuela is poorer than it ever was. At one time Venezuela was on of the 10 wealthiest nations in the world.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Who takes better care of their poor than the United States? Our poor have HUD homes in the suburb. They eat until they can't take another bite and their physique shows it. They have as many children as they desire because there are no restrictions on family size. They get free medical care--something many working Americans don't even have. They get paid utilities and even a free cell phone with 250 minutes included every month.

In my estimation, this is nothing to brag about.

Giving people things is not "welfare".

This is the far left at work...and encourages dependency.

Others can spare me the "you just want to throw them into the street" garbage.

I want people to figure out how to stand on their feet.

Sometimes it isn't easy or painless....but never should people starve or be fearful.

I don't think we've really gotten a good solution here.

 

[Andylusion]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

O.K......nobody said the left wasn't corrupt too.

It' the far right that speaks out both sides of it's mouth.

Explain.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

What "unfair" advantages does Wal-Mart have? Many cities will not allow Wal-Mart to build stores.

And many WILL.
Walmart is dominating Nassau County, a county that already has a 30+% Foreclosure Rate.

How is Wal-Mart responsible for that?

Please get away from this is an "attack" Wal-Mart thread.

The question has been asked....is Wal-Mart making good money ?

If so, why are there no competitors entering the market to get that money ?

Maybe there are ?

They still make a lot of money.....

Not a crime.....

Not a sin....

But doesn't NATURAL Economics teach that should not be the case.

I don't even understand your point. NATURAL Economics has nothing to do with it. Nor is your claim even true. There are plenty of competitors to Walmart. We have Krogers, Giant Eagle, Meijer. So, I can even figure out your point.

O.K. Thanks.

I've never heard of any of them.

But I'll take your word for it.

If I get ambitous, I'll look into them (I'd be curious to see how old they are....are they leftovers ?).

BTW: Ever watch Stossels bit (from many years ago) about Wal-Mart and government building the Northwest Arkansas Airport ? Designed to handle cargo planes ! Yet, to get to it...you have to drive through the back country. Right in Bentonville's back yard. I've been there. It only handles regional jets for passenger traffic.

Needless....no demand....This was Stossel going after a boondoggle.

But Walmart helped pay for it....

Yeah.....1% of the total cost.

That's not an advantage ?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

O.K......nobody said the left wasn't corrupt too.

It' the far right that speaks out both sides of it's mouth.

Explain.

I have for pages on end....

Business hides under the skirts of the "far right" to make sure they keep their advantages using government.

 

[Dad2three]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

Trade arms for hostages with Iran and get called heroes by the right wingers, sell Iran's oil and be called a criminal *shaking head*



"In 1983 he and a business partner were indicted in the United States on multiple counts including tax evasion and trading oil with Iran in breach of an embargo at the time of the hostage crisis at the US embassy in Tehran.

Belgian-born Rich, who had five nationalities -- US, Spanish, Israeli, Belgian and Swiss -- was never to return to the United States to face charges.

He quit the firm in 1994, selling his stake for $600 million"

Rich's companies eventually pled guilty to 35 counts of tax evasion and paid $90 million in fines

 

[bripat9643]

I am not going to get into this.....they hid (and continue to hide) under that title.

What makes it more disgusting is their claim to want "conservative" principles.....all while wiping their asses with them.

In other words, you agree that they aren't conservatives.

You're too hung up on conservativism. Today, it represents the business class only, and if profits can be made by taking an industry out of a town that has no other employees but a small service sector, and putting that industry in a low wage country, so be it. Town now broke, but the corporate profit is intact. This is what we have now, profits before people.

Yes, now you're getting it.

It is profits before people. Nobody starts a business so you can have a good job and good benefits. No. People start businesses to make profit.

Business do not have a social obligation to the citizens or the government. Anybody that thinks business has some obligation to the population simply knows nothing about American businesses.

And most of the aged multi-millionaires in my three Synagogues were multi-millionaires before Reagan started the sell-out of America.
Not to mention Citibank, AT&T, Chase Manhattan, Morgan Stanley, etc...
The issue is that these businesses have bought OUR representatives and hand them legislation that REWARDS them for leaving the US or importing so-called "geniuses" to replaced Americans en-masse.

You want a Democrat in the WH, you got it.
Don't forget, there are way more non-CEOs and Directors than there are CEOs and Directors.

No, that's not true. The only thing our government gives businesses that are leaving is a tax write-off for moving expenses which is petty when you consider all costs. It's not all that much money and without a doubt, certainly no incentive to leave the US.

It isn't something the government has a choice about. Income taxes are charged against corporate income. Income is defined as revenue minus expenses. Moving costs are an expense. Therefore corporations are entitled by the constitution to deduct it.

 

[bripat9643]

What makes you think they don't have competition?

I know many who've tried to compete in some of their markets...and have been shut down or cut off because of unfair advantages.

What about Wal-Mart. Where is their competition ?

Target ? Don't make me laugh.

What "unfair" advantages does Wal-Mart have? Many cities will not allow Wal-Mart to build stores.

And many WILL.
Walmart is dominating Nassau County, a county that already has a 30+% Foreclosure Rate.

How is Wal-Mart responsible for that?

Please get away from this is an "attack" Wal-Mart thread.

The question has been asked....is Wal-Mart making good money ?

If so, why are there no competitors entering the market to get that money ?

Maybe there are ?

They still make a lot of money.....

Not a crime.....

Not a sin....

But doesn't NATURAL Economics teach that should not be the case.

There are competitors, but Wal-Mart does a better job.

 

[bripat9643]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

O.K......nobody said the left wasn't corrupt too.

It' the far right that speaks out both sides of it's mouth.

What you call the "far right" are actually establishment Republicans. RINOs, in other words. Handing out special privileges to favored businesses is not a policy endorsed by the right. It's endorsed by liberal Democrats and RINOs.

 

[whitehall]

What is the most notoriously degenerate wealth flaunting segment of society left in the 21st century? That's right, it's Hollywood. Try promoting yourself as a republican in Tinsel Town and expect to get a job. Degenerate wealth is all about the democrat party.

 

[Andylusion]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

O.K......nobody said the left wasn't corrupt too.

It' the far right that speaks out both sides of it's mouth.

Explain.

I have for pages on end....

Business hides under the skirts of the "far right" to make sure they keep their advantages using government.

Like name a 'government advantage' that the 'far right' promotes?

Because I honestly can't think of one off hand.

Surely you can't refer to tax advantages, because we'd like to lower taxes. If taxes were low or zero, there wouldn't be any 'tax advantages' to be had.

It surely isn't subsidies, because the far right is completely against any subsidies at all.

It surely isn't trade advantages, because we want free trade.

It can't regulatory advantages, because we want to deregulate.

So what specific example of government advantages supported by the far right are you referring to?

And maybe you have said it before, and I missed it. We are on page 21 after all, and I haven't been here for all 20 pages before. Sorry.

 

[SAYIT]

Thom Hartmann: How America Killed Its Middle Class

Not a big fan of Alternet.....but this one makes a statement I think begs a question.

Piketty is right, especially about the importance of high marginal tax rates and inheritance taxes being necessary for the creation of a middle class that includes working-class people. Progressive taxation, when done correctly, pushes wages down to working people and reduces the incentives for the very rich to pillage their companies or rip off their workers. After all, why take another billion when 91 percent of it just going to be paid in taxes?

This is the main reason why, when GM was our largest employer and our working class were also in the middle class, CEOs only took home 30 times what working people did. The top tax rate for all the time America's middle class was created was between 74 and 91 percent. Until, of course, Reagan dropped it to 28 percent and working people moved from the middle class to becoming the working poor.

#############################

So, as we continue to let the rich just go nuts...what is it that isn't there to prevent them.

Why does the far right vote to protect the interest of the rich ?

The answer lies, in part, in the fact that the far left is no better. First, they suck off the rich like others.

Next, they won't make a rational case. They need conservatives to join them. And yet they, like some of the assholes on this board, do nothing but antagonize them.

And the rich just eat it up......

######################################

This thread originally got moved to Europe because I led in with an article about the European middle class.

But the comparison is bright as the day is long.

I bash the left.

I bash the right.

Regardless, this is a huge issue in my mind.

Now, if the left starts squawking about how the rich screw them over...I'd ask how they get away with it. They only get away with it because the government protects them.

The right yells...hands off. But this article flies in the face of that.

Yanno, I'm pretty staunchly anti-socialism yet I don't recall ever having defended "the wealthy class." I do recall rejecting all and any loony leftist braying that boils down to "I want free stuff and we gotta make the rich pay for it" as the childish pap it always is.

I also recall rejecting any attempt to limit anyone's freedom to pursue their dreams and best interest - as long as they comply with our laws - by using the levers of gov't to turn MY COUNTRY into another whiny, sniveling socialist shithole.

All in all your argument is just another baseless Straw Man intended to allow the whiny snivelers here to post their silliness.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

O.K......nobody said the left wasn't corrupt too.

It' the far right that speaks out both sides of it's mouth.

What you call the "far right" are actually establishment Republicans. RINOs, in other words. Handing out special privileges to favored businesses is not a policy endorsed by the right. It's endorsed by liberal Democrats and RINOs.

Definitions are important.....

Establishment Republicans are just that...they want their cake and eat it too. They play both sides.

A RINO, in my world is the same as a DINO. They tend to be moderates who equivocate on principle....depending on the issue.

I call the "far right" those who yack about being conservative....all the while stabbing us in the back.

I consider myself both liberal and conservative. I certainly don't see myself and far right or far left.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Thom Hartmann: How America Killed Its Middle Class

Not a big fan of Alternet.....but this one makes a statement I think begs a question.

Piketty is right, especially about the importance of high marginal tax rates and inheritance taxes being necessary for the creation of a middle class that includes working-class people. Progressive taxation, when done correctly, pushes wages down to working people and reduces the incentives for the very rich to pillage their companies or rip off their workers. After all, why take another billion when 91 percent of it just going to be paid in taxes?

This is the main reason why, when GM was our largest employer and our working class were also in the middle class, CEOs only took home 30 times what working people did. The top tax rate for all the time America's middle class was created was between 74 and 91 percent. Until, of course, Reagan dropped it to 28 percent and working people moved from the middle class to becoming the working poor.

#############################

So, as we continue to let the rich just go nuts...what is it that isn't there to prevent them.

Why does the far right vote to protect the interest of the rich ?

The answer lies, in part, in the fact that the far left is no better. First, they suck off the rich like others.

Next, they won't make a rational case. They need conservatives to join them. And yet they, like some of the assholes on this board, do nothing but antagonize them.

And the rich just eat it up......

######################################

This thread originally got moved to Europe because I led in with an article about the European middle class.

But the comparison is bright as the day is long.

I bash the left.

I bash the right.

Regardless, this is a huge issue in my mind.

Now, if the left starts squawking about how the rich screw them over...I'd ask how they get away with it. They only get away with it because the government protects them.

The right yells...hands off. But this article flies in the face of that.

Yanno, I'm pretty staunchly anti-socialism yet I don't recall ever having defended "the wealthy class." I do recall rejecting all and any loony leftist braying that boils down to "I want free stuff and we gotta make the rich pay for it" as the childish pap it always is.

I also recall rejecting any attempt to limit anyone's freedom to pursue their dreams and best interest - as long as they comply with our laws - by using the levers of gov't to turn MY COUNTRY into another whiny, sniveling socialist shithole.

All in all your argument is just another baseless Straw Man intended to allow the whiny snivelers here to post their silliness.

Sorry, but you are just another in a long line of people who index right to that incorrect argument.

First, it isn't a strawman. The far right is partly big business (you know..hands off) using government to increase their advantage.

I don't advocate for free stuff....if you had read just a few posts back...you'd see that.

I advocate for government getting out of the way of business and allowing small guys to compete. That way they can legitimately go compete for the dollars the wealthy take in so easily.

I don't advocate for using government to tax the hell out of the wealthy. That would be the far left.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Why do ignorant lefties rely on the the knee-jerk myth that the "right" caters to the wealthy with examples like freaking Clinton pardoning his friend, Mark Rich, while he was on the FBI's 10 most wanted and was the most notorious corporate crook at that time in history? Maybe the "right" supports the legitimate rich while the left supports the crooks.

O.K......nobody said the left wasn't corrupt too.

It' the far right that speaks out both sides of it's mouth.

Explain.

I have for pages on end....

Business hides under the skirts of the "far right" to make sure they keep their advantages using government.

Like name a 'government advantage' that the 'far right' promotes?

Because I honestly can't think of one off hand.

Surely you can't refer to tax advantages, because we'd like to lower taxes. If taxes were low or zero, there wouldn't be any 'tax advantages' to be had.

It surely isn't subsidies, because the far right is completely against any subsidies at all.

It surely isn't trade advantages, because we want free trade.

It can't regulatory advantages, because we want to deregulate.

So what specific example of government advantages supported by the far right are you referring to?

And maybe you have said it before, and I missed it. We are on page 21 after all, and I haven't been here for all 20 pages before. Sorry.

I have listed a bunch...some just recently....

Walmar's personal airport.

Research money to the tune of 10's of millions.

Government contracts that go to big businesses that get fat dumb and happy off of them.

If you didn't read the one about the resale of property to the rich for pennies on the dollar...you missed a goody.

I see it all the time.

How can YOU miss it ?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have to agree. I was in Venezuela last time in 2004, was seeing chavez using the country's resources to help some of the poorest people in that country. You can see the hillside shacks as you fly in to caracas. Some of the poorest people in western hemisphere. I was looking into buying real estate at the time. Some of the business class, realtors, agreed at least somewhat with what he was trying to do. We (we, meaning bushcheney and the american oil companies,) hated chavez because he increased the costs of oil extraction by foreign countries. Less profits for oil companies is what the hatred for chavez has been.

It's not that simple....

But the bottom line is that what we are hearing is not the full story.

I am not a fan of Chavez.

But, his efforts did allow for many to clear the oppression of the day.

Horseshit. Venezuela is poorer than it ever was. At one time Venezuela was on of the 10 wealthiest nations in the world.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Who takes better care of their poor than the United States? Our poor have HUD homes in the suburb. They eat until they can't take another bite and their physique shows it. They have as many children as they desire because there are no restrictions on family size. They get free medical care--something many working Americans don't even have. They get paid utilities and even a free cell phone with 250 minutes included every month.

In my estimation, this is nothing to brag about.

Giving people things is not "welfare".

This is the far left at work...and encourages dependency.

Others can spare me the "you just want to throw them into the street" garbage.

I want people to figure out how to stand on their feet.

Sometimes it isn't easy or painless....but never should people starve or be fearful.

I don't think we've really gotten a good solution here.

Who's bragging? Certainly not me. Just pointing out that our poor have a pretty good life here. I mean, if you had to be poor, what other country would you want to be poor in besides the US?

As for solutions, they are out there but nobody has the guts to implement them.

If I had my way, anybody that applies for public aid has to get fixed first. No more getting welfare and then starting or expanding the family. In most cases, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and it's impossible to solve poverty when we promote the expansion of it.

If you're a woman and need aid, then the government will pay to have your tubes tied. If you're a guy and have children you're not supporting, then you have to get a vasectomy first. Then we taxpayers will be glad to help.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What is the most notoriously degenerate wealth flaunting segment of society left in the 21st century? That's right, it's Hollywood. Try promoting yourself as a republican in Tinsel Town and expect to get a job. Degenerate wealth is all about the democrat party.

Can't argue that Hollywood is just another power broker that want's to control how you think for personal gain.

I detest them too.

But I don't agree that you can ascribe the term of degenerate wealth to one side.

I keep hearing this from both sides and I keep trying to point out that the power brokers love watching us yell at each other. That way we stay out of their business and allow them to fleece us on a regular basis.

 

[The Great Goose]

The right wing belong in an oven. Its their natural habitat.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

It's not that simple....

But the bottom line is that what we are hearing is not the full story.

I am not a fan of Chavez.

But, his efforts did allow for many to clear the oppression of the day.

Horseshit. Venezuela is poorer than it ever was. At one time Venezuela was on of the 10 wealthiest nations in the world.

Just like America is the richest of the large countries in the world but we have much poverty here too. Always have, even in the 60's. A rich country that doesn't take care of it's poorest is nothing to brag about.

Who takes better care of their poor than the United States? Our poor have HUD homes in the suburb. They eat until they can't take another bite and their physique shows it. They have as many children as they desire because there are no restrictions on family size. They get free medical care--something many working Americans don't even have. They get paid utilities and even a free cell phone with 250 minutes included every month.

In my estimation, this is nothing to brag about.

Giving people things is not "welfare".

This is the far left at work...and encourages dependency.

Others can spare me the "you just want to throw them into the street" garbage.

I want people to figure out how to stand on their feet.

Sometimes it isn't easy or painless....but never should people starve or be fearful.

I don't think we've really gotten a good solution here.

Who's bragging? Certainly not me. Just pointing out that our poor have a pretty good life here. I mean, if you had to be poor, what other country would you want to be poor in besides the US?

As for solutions, they are out there but nobody has the guts to implement them.

If I had my way, anybody that applies for public aid has to get fixed first. No more getting welfare and then starting or expanding the family. In most cases, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and it's impossible to solve poverty when we promote the expansion of it.

If you're a woman and need aid, then the government will pay to have your tubes tied. If you're a guy and have children you're not supporting, then you have to get a vasectomy first. Then we taxpayers will be glad to help.

While I may not agree with your approach...I applaud that you've put something on the table.

THAT is where it starts. We can then have a good discussion and start to discuss how we get things back in balance.

Thanks for offering up these ideas.