Why does the right defend the wealthy class

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You're a fucking idiot. .

please say why or admit you lack the IQ to be here. Thank you.

 

[sealybobo]

Thom Hartmann: How America Killed Its Middle Class

Not a big fan of Alternet.....but this one makes a statement I think begs a question.

Piketty is right, especially about the importance of high marginal tax rates and inheritance taxes being necessary for the creation of a middle class that includes working-class people. Progressive taxation, when done correctly, pushes wages down to working people and reduces the incentives for the very rich to pillage their companies or rip off their workers. After all, why take another billion when 91 percent of it just going to be paid in taxes?

This is the main reason why, when GM was our largest employer and our working class were also in the middle class, CEOs only took home 30 times what working people did. The top tax rate for all the time America's middle class was created was between 74 and 91 percent. Until, of course, Reagan dropped it to 28 percent and working people moved from the middle class to becoming the working poor.

#############################

So, as we continue to let the rich just go nuts...what is it that isn't there to prevent them.

Why does the far right vote to protect the interest of the rich ?

The answer lies, in part, in the fact that the far left is no better. First, they suck off the rich like others.

Next, they won't make a rational case. They need conservatives to join them. And yet they, like some of the assholes on this board, do nothing but antagonize them.

And the rich just eat it up......

######################################

This thread originally got moved to Europe because I led in with an article about the European middle class.

But the comparison is bright as the day is long.

I bash the left.

I bash the right.

Regardless, this is a huge issue in my mind.

Now, if the left starts squawking about how the rich screw them over...I'd ask how they get away with it. They only get away with it because the government protects them.

The right yells...hands off. But this article flies in the face of that.

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history: There is no such thing as a "free market." The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans are discovering).

In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

The conservative mantra is "let the market decide." But there is no market independent of government, so what they're really saying is, "Stop government from defending workers and building a middle class, and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how to trade." This is, at best, destructive to national and international economies, and, at worst, destructive to democracy itself.

Markets are a creation of government, just as corporations exist only by authorization of government. Governments set the rules of the market. And, since our government is of, by, and for We The People, those rules have historically been set to first maximize the public good resulting from people doing business.

If you want to play the game of business, we've said in the US since 1784 (when Tench Coxe got the first tariffs passed "to protect domestic industries") then you have to play in a way that both makes you money AND serves the public interest.

Which requires us to puncture the second balloon of popular belief. The "middle class" is not the natural result of freeing business to do whatever it wants, of "free and open markets," or of "free trade." The "middle class" is not a normal result of "free markets." Those policies will produce a small but powerful wealthy class, a small "middle" mercantilist class, and a huge and terrified worker class which have traditionally been called "serfs."

The middle class is a new invention of liberal democracies, the direct result of governments defining the rules of the game of business. It is, quite simply, an artifact of government regulation of markets and tax laws.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why does the left defend lazy uneducated non working rifraf? That must be why Dems are so popular, the slacker vote can't be discounted.

Do you think Honda and Toyota factory workers are overpaid? I'm sure you do since they are all uneducated.

So we see what the right thinks about the big successful middle class we had from fdr till Gw got into office and sent all those jobs to mexico.

So don't complain the middle class disappeared on Obama's watch when your policies cost us all those high paying jobs.

Toyota and Honda workers only make what they do because Honda and Toyota fear unionization. They should thank the big 3

That's interesting. Then riddle me this: why do they make such a superior product than those union shops? My Toyota has bumper-to-bumper coverage for seven years or 100,000 miles. Union companies can't do that.

Then drive a Honda. I like my fusion and my brothers f150. We get the a plan so its a no brainer for us. Ford is great. And my dad had a pension and hundreds of thousands of dollars and two homes working for Ford, so I see the value of paying your employees well.

I'm glad Toyota is here making a product and employing Americans and paying them a decent wage. Thank a union because if it were up to you and Toyota those zero education line workers would make how much?

Riddle me that.

I'm glad Toyota and Honda are keeping the big three on their toes.

My last American made car was my last American made car. After 30,000 miles, my mechanic drove it more than I did.

Speaking of my "former" mechanic, it was he that enlightened me on the low quality parts and engineering of American made cars.

Because of your dads "hundreds of thousands of dollars" that he made, American auto manufacturing companies had to make up that loss somewhere. That somewhere was parts.

It's funny that this subject came up as a former GF of mine posted a complaint about her GM car on FaceBook. She has a bumper-to-bumper coverage on her car that now needs brakes and rotors. The car has 21,000 miles on it. GM told her to F-off. An American car that needs brakes and rotors at 21,000 miles is normal wear and tear. They wouldn't cover the repair.

She was forced to take it to a private mechanic to get the problem fixed. It cost her over $800.00.

My Toyota now has 72,000 miles on it. When I had new tires put on at the beginning of the year, the mechanic there told me I had half of my break pads left, and everything else looked dandy. At the time, I probably had 65,000 miles on it.

I owned two Toyota's in the past ten years. Neither of them ever seen a tow truck.

Toyota's Out-of-Control Gas Pedals, 2009 & 2010
The Takata Seatbelt Scandal, 1995

And they found that the gas peddle scandal was nothing but made up.

Should I list the dozens of recalls and problems of American autos and we can compare????

 

[sealybobo]

Tax the poor, feed the rich.

100% stupid as always since the poor don't pay any taxes while the top1% pay 40% of all federal income taxes and more of state taxes.

If I have to hear that argument one more fucking time! STFU Eddy you god damn dweeb. Go fuck yourself stupid.

 

[Rustic]

Implementing progressive taxing... Is one of the most backward things this country has ever done.

No wonder this country never sees decent economic growth from year to year.

See: hope and change sucks

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The middle class is a new invention of liberal democracies, the direct result of governments defining the rules of the game of business.

100% stupid and liberal since Plato and Aristotle talked about the middle class 2500 years ago


Aristotle argues that for city-states that fall short of the ideal, the best constitution is one controlled by a numerous middle class which stands between the rich and the poor. For those who possess the goods of fortune in moderation find it “easiest to obey the rule of reason” (Politics IV.11.1295b4–6). They are accordingly less apt than the rich or poor to act unjustly toward their fellow citizens. A constitution based on the middle class is the mean between the extremes of oligarchy (rule by the rich) and democracy (rule by the poor). “That the middle [constitution] is best is evident, for it is the freest from faction: where the middle class is numerous, there least occur factions and divisions among citizens” (IV.11.1296a7–9). The middle constitution is therefore both more stable and more just than oligarchy and democracy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why does the left defend lazy uneducated non working rifraf? That must be why Dems are so popular, the slacker vote can't be discounted.

Do you think Honda and Toyota factory workers are overpaid? I'm sure you do since they are all uneducated.

So we see what the right thinks about the big successful middle class we had from fdr till Gw got into office and sent all those jobs to mexico.

So don't complain the middle class disappeared on Obama's watch when your policies cost us all those high paying jobs.

Toyota and Honda workers only make what they do because Honda and Toyota fear unionization. They should thank the big 3

That's interesting. Then riddle me this: why do they make such a superior product than those union shops? My Toyota has bumper-to-bumper coverage for seven years or 100,000 miles. Union companies can't do that.

Then drive a Honda. I like my fusion and my brothers f150. We get the a plan so its a no brainer for us. Ford is great. And my dad had a pension and hundreds of thousands of dollars and two homes working for Ford, so I see the value of paying your employees well.

I'm glad Toyota is here making a product and employing Americans and paying them a decent wage. Thank a union because if it were up to you and Toyota those zero education line workers would make how much?

Riddle me that.

I'm glad Toyota and Honda are keeping the big three on their toes.

My last American made car was my last American made car. After 30,000 miles, my mechanic drove it more than I did.

Speaking of my "former" mechanic, it was he that enlightened me on the low quality parts and engineering of American made cars.

Because of your dads "hundreds of thousands of dollars" that he made, American auto manufacturing companies had to make up that loss somewhere. That somewhere was parts.

It's funny that this subject came up as a former GF of mine posted a complaint about her GM car on FaceBook. She has a bumper-to-bumper coverage on her car that now needs brakes and rotors. The car has 21,000 miles on it. GM told her to F-off. An American car that needs brakes and rotors at 21,000 miles is normal wear and tear. They wouldn't cover the repair.

She was forced to take it to a private mechanic to get the problem fixed. It cost her over $800.00.

My Toyota now has 72,000 miles on it. When I had new tires put on at the beginning of the year, the mechanic there told me I had half of my break pads left, and everything else looked dandy. At the time, I probably had 65,000 miles on it.

I owned two Toyota's in the past ten years. Neither of them ever seen a tow truck.

Same with my Fusion. Lets see who's last longer.

That's easy. Just go to any Toyota dealer and compare the prices of their used vehicles to their new ones. They don't depreciate nearly as much as American made cars. The day you drive an American car off the lot, you already lost $4,000 or more.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If I have to hear that argument one more fucking time! STFU Eddy you god damn dweeb. Go fuck yourself stupid.

Translation: I'm liberal, violent and a way too stupid to confute the argument

 

[sealybobo]

Let's be blunt. The real agenda of the new conservatives is nothing less than the destruction of democracy in the United States of America. And feudalism is one of their weapons.

Their rallying cry is that government is the enemy, and thus must be "drowned in a bathtub."

The government of the United States is us. It was designed to be a government of, by, and for We, the People. It's not an enemy to be destroyed; it's a means by which we administer and preserve the commons that we collectively own.

What conservatives are really arguing for is a return to the three historic forms of tyranny that the Founders and Framers identified, declared war against, and fought and died to keep out of our land. Those tyrants were kings, theocrats, and noble feudal lords.

In their brave new world, corporations are more suited to governance than are the unpredictable rabble called citizens. Corporations should control politics, control the commons, control health care, control our airwaves, control the "free" market, and even control our schools. Although corporations can't vote, these new conservatives claim they should have human rights, like privacy from government inspections of their political activity and the free speech right to lie to politicians and citizens in PR and advertising. Although corporations don't need to breathe fresh air or drink pure water, these new conservatives would hand over to them the power to self-regulate poisonous emissions into our air and water.

Corporations and their CEOs are America's new feudal lords

 

[sealybobo]

If I have to hear that argument one more fucking time! STFU Eddy you god damn dweeb. Go fuck yourself stupid.

Translation: I'm liberal, violent and a way too stupid to confute the argument

No i just hate your stupidity and if you think I'll have one more conversation with you then you are the dummy. I already took the 4th grade test stupid. I'm not taking it again just because you can't get past it. Fuck off boy!

 

[sealybobo]

"Do you want government bureaucrats deciding which doctor you can see?" asked the conservatives, over and over again. As a yes/no question, the answer was pretty simple for most Americans: no. But, as is so often the case when conservatives try to influence public opinion, the true issue wasn't honestly stated.

The real question was: "Do you want government bureaucrats - who are answerable to elected officials and thus subject to the will of 'We, The People' - making decisions about your healthcare, or would you rather have corporate bureaucrats - who are answerable only to their CEOs and work in a profit-driven environment - making decisions about your healthcare?"

 

[sealybobo]

For every $100 that passes through the hands of the government-administered Medicare programs, between $2 and $3 is spent on administration, leaving $97 to $98 to pay for medical services and drugs. But of every $100 that flows through corporate insurance programs and HMOs, $10 to $24 sticks to corporate fingers along the way. After all, Medicare doesn't have lavish corporate headquarters, corporate jets, or pay expensive lobbying firms in Washington to work on its behalf. It doesn't "donate" millions to politicians and their parties. It doesn't pay profits in the form of dividends to its shareholders. And it doesn't compensate its top executive with over a million dollars a year, as do each of the largest of the American insurance companies. Medicare has one primary mandate: serve the public. Private corporations also have one primary mandate: generate profit.

 

[sealybobo]

Do you think Honda and Toyota factory workers are overpaid? I'm sure you do since they are all uneducated.

So we see what the right thinks about the big successful middle class we had from fdr till Gw got into office and sent all those jobs to mexico.

So don't complain the middle class disappeared on Obama's watch when your policies cost us all those high paying jobs.

Toyota and Honda workers only make what they do because Honda and Toyota fear unionization. They should thank the big 3

That's interesting. Then riddle me this: why do they make such a superior product than those union shops? My Toyota has bumper-to-bumper coverage for seven years or 100,000 miles. Union companies can't do that.

Then drive a Honda. I like my fusion and my brothers f150. We get the a plan so its a no brainer for us. Ford is great. And my dad had a pension and hundreds of thousands of dollars and two homes working for Ford, so I see the value of paying your employees well.

I'm glad Toyota is here making a product and employing Americans and paying them a decent wage. Thank a union because if it were up to you and Toyota those zero education line workers would make how much?

Riddle me that.

I'm glad Toyota and Honda are keeping the big three on their toes.

My last American made car was my last American made car. After 30,000 miles, my mechanic drove it more than I did.

Speaking of my "former" mechanic, it was he that enlightened me on the low quality parts and engineering of American made cars.

Because of your dads "hundreds of thousands of dollars" that he made, American auto manufacturing companies had to make up that loss somewhere. That somewhere was parts.

It's funny that this subject came up as a former GF of mine posted a complaint about her GM car on FaceBook. She has a bumper-to-bumper coverage on her car that now needs brakes and rotors. The car has 21,000 miles on it. GM told her to F-off. An American car that needs brakes and rotors at 21,000 miles is normal wear and tear. They wouldn't cover the repair.

She was forced to take it to a private mechanic to get the problem fixed. It cost her over $800.00.

My Toyota now has 72,000 miles on it. When I had new tires put on at the beginning of the year, the mechanic there told me I had half of my break pads left, and everything else looked dandy. At the time, I probably had 65,000 miles on it.

I owned two Toyota's in the past ten years. Neither of them ever seen a tow truck.

Same with my Fusion. Lets see who's last longer.

That's easy. Just go to any Toyota dealer and compare the prices of their used vehicles to their new ones. They don't depreciate nearly as much as American made cars. The day you drive an American car off the lot, you already lost $4,000 or more.

Ford F-Series Does It Again: Best-Selling Truck for 33 Straight Years; Best-Selling Vehicle for 28 Years

 

[bripat9643]

Why do Republicans defend the wealthy? Leaving aside the fact that the Democrats protect some wealthy people too (labor bosses, "green" companies, multinational corporations that support leftist immigration policies, etc.), here are some ideas: Maybe Republicans defend the wealthy because the wealthy employ tens of millions of people? Maybe because they don't want the wealthy to be subject to mob rule and legalized plunder? Maybe because they believe that you shouldn't be punished for being successful?

the "left" doesn't protect "labor bosses". democrats defend workers and unions.

saying it's about "labor bosses" is simply silly.

Saying the left defends labor bosses is about as silly as the saying the right defends the wealthy - as if the wealthy have committed a crime of some kind simply by being wealthy.

 

[jillian]

Why do Republicans defend the wealthy? Leaving aside the fact that the Democrats protect some wealthy people too (labor bosses, "green" companies, multinational corporations that support leftist immigration policies, etc.), here are some ideas: Maybe Republicans defend the wealthy because the wealthy employ tens of millions of people? Maybe because they don't want the wealthy to be subject to mob rule and legalized plunder? Maybe because they believe that you shouldn't be punished for being successful?

the "left" doesn't protect "labor bosses". democrats defend workers and unions.

saying it's about "labor bosses" is simply silly.

Saying the left defends labor bosses is about as silly as the saying the right defends the wealthy - as if the wealthy have committed a crime of some kind simply by being wealthy.

ok loony toon.

 

[bripat9643]

For every $100 that passes through the hands of the government-administered Medicare programs, between $2 and $3 is spent on administration, leaving $97 to $98 to pay for medical services and drugs. But of every $100 that flows through corporate insurance programs and HMOs, $10 to $24 sticks to corporate fingers along the way. After all, Medicare doesn't have lavish corporate headquarters, corporate jets, or pay expensive lobbying firms in Washington to work on its behalf. It doesn't "donate" millions to politicians and their parties. It doesn't pay profits in the form of dividends to its shareholders. And it doesn't compensate its top executive with over a million dollars a year, as do each of the largest of the American insurance companies. Medicare has one primary mandate: serve the public. Private corporations also have one primary mandate: generate profit.

You're ignoring all the Medicare money that goes down the the sewer hole called waste and fraud. The later is an immense problem for the Medicare program.

Also, where does your $10-$24 figure come from?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If I have to hear that argument one more fucking time! STFU Eddy you god damn dweeb. Go fuck yourself stupid.

Translation: I'm liberal, violent and a way too stupid to confute the argument

No i just hate your stupidity and if you think I'll have one more conversation with you then you are the dummy. I already took the 4th grade test stupid. I'm not taking it again just because you can't get past it. Fuck off boy!

translation: I'm liberal, violent and a way too stupid to confute the argument

 

[bripat9643]

Why do Republicans defend the wealthy? Leaving aside the fact that the Democrats protect some wealthy people too (labor bosses, "green" companies, multinational corporations that support leftist immigration policies, etc.), here are some ideas: Maybe Republicans defend the wealthy because the wealthy employ tens of millions of people? Maybe because they don't want the wealthy to be subject to mob rule and legalized plunder? Maybe because they believe that you shouldn't be punished for being successful?

the "left" doesn't protect "labor bosses". democrats defend workers and unions.

saying it's about "labor bosses" is simply silly.

Saying the left defends labor bosses is about as silly as the saying the right defends the wealthy - as if the wealthy have committed a crime of some kind simply by being wealthy.

ok loony toon.

So you think simply being wealth is a crime, and you're calling me a "loony toon?'

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

For every $100 that passes through the hands of the government-administered Medicare programs, between $2 and $3 is spent on administration, leaving $97 to $98 to pay for medical services and drugs. But of every $100 that flows through corporate insurance programs and HMOs, $10 to $24 sticks to corporate fingers along the way. After all, Medicare doesn't have lavish corporate headquarters, corporate jets, or pay expensive lobbying firms in Washington to work on its behalf. It doesn't "donate" millions to politicians and their parties. It doesn't pay profits in the form of dividends to its shareholders. And it doesn't compensate its top executive with over a million dollars a year, as do each of the largest of the American insurance companies. Medicare has one primary mandate: serve the public. Private corporations also have one primary mandate: generate profit.

Well Remember that Medicare couldn't exist without private insurance. That's why Medicare and Medicaid are able to get away with underpaying the providers. The providers have no choice but to increase fees that private insured patients pay for.

The facilities that ran out of private pay and private insured patients closed down. No business can stay open making less than they spend. That's why when you see medical facilities close down, they are usually in the inner-city or poorer areas where most are on government healthcare.

Private insurance doesn't put your money under a mattress somewhere when you pay your premium like government. Private insurance invests your money where the profits help offset some of the payouts. And unlike government systems that get ripped off by the tens of billions every year, private insurance spends some of their money for teams of investigators looking, finding and prosecuting fraud.

 

[Papageorgio]

Why does the left defend lazy uneducated non working rifraf? That must be why Dems are so popular, the slacker vote can't be discounted.

Do you think Honda and Toyota factory workers are overpaid? I'm sure you do since they are all uneducated.

So we see what the right thinks about the big successful middle class we had from fdr till Gw got into office and sent all those jobs to mexico.

So don't complain the middle class disappeared on Obama's watch when your policies cost us all those high paying jobs.

Toyota and Honda workers only make what they do because Honda and Toyota fear unionization. They should thank the big 3

That's interesting. Then riddle me this: why do they make such a superior product than those union shops? My Toyota has bumper-to-bumper coverage for seven years or 100,000 miles. Union companies can't do that.

Then drive a Honda. I like my fusion and my brothers f150. We get the a plan so its a no brainer for us. Ford is great. And my dad had a pension and hundreds of thousands of dollars and two homes working for Ford, so I see the value of paying your employees well.

I'm glad Toyota is here making a product and employing Americans and paying them a decent wage. Thank a union because if it were up to you and Toyota those zero education line workers would make how much?

Riddle me that.

I'm glad Toyota and Honda are keeping the big three on their toes.

My last American made car was my last American made car. After 30,000 miles, my mechanic drove it more than I did.

Speaking of my "former" mechanic, it was he that enlightened me on the low quality parts and engineering of American made cars.

Because of your dads "hundreds of thousands of dollars" that he made, American auto manufacturing companies had to make up that loss somewhere. That somewhere was parts.

It's funny that this subject came up as a former GF of mine posted a complaint about her GM car on FaceBook. She has a bumper-to-bumper coverage on her car that now needs brakes and rotors. The car has 21,000 miles on it. GM told her to F-off. An American car that needs brakes and rotors at 21,000 miles is normal wear and tear. They wouldn't cover the repair.

She was forced to take it to a private mechanic to get the problem fixed. It cost her over $800.00.

My Toyota now has 72,000 miles on it. When I had new tires put on at the beginning of the year, the mechanic there told me I had half of my break pads left, and everything else looked dandy. At the time, I probably had 65,000 miles on it.

I owned two Toyota's in the past ten years. Neither of them ever seen a tow truck.

Toyota's Out-of-Control Gas Pedals, 2009 & 2010
The Takata Seatbelt Scandal, 1995

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